20 Jan
2014
20 Jan
'14
12:20 p.m.
Just throwing this out to see what other people think.
I suspect we're at the tail end of the usage life of devices that don't speak IP.
I'm mostly thinking about networking devices 80's > 00's
So, what needs to be preserved? How much of this does CHM need to do? Is any other
collecting institution already covering this? How much is within scope?
We've been having curatorial discussions about this for years inside CHM, and have
been doing some directed collecting since before the big exhibition was locked down
in 2010, but it is a big topic and there were a lot of evolutionary dead-ends.
What got me thinking about this is I've been working with someone who has storage
units full of mid-80's IBM SNA stuff and it's taken me months to scan a fraction
of it. I know there are huge swaths of telephony and networking that I've never
even looked at. It's pretty overwhelming, actually, to get my head around from the
software side.
20 Jan
20 Jan
12:34 p.m.
I suspect we're at the tail end of the usage life
of devices that
don't speak IP.
I don't know how universally true this is, but, for the devices I know,
the hardware doesn't speak IP or not speak IP; it's the software on it
that controls that.
So are you thinking, here, of devices as including the software, or as
including the manufacturer's usual software, or what? As a simple
example, a VAX with VMS didn't speak IP (not without third-party
addons, at least not until comparatively late VMS) - but it is not fair
to say that a VAX, per se, doesn't speak IP; put 4.3 on it and it
speaks IP just fine.
So I guess what I'm wondering is, where on this spectrum you're
speaking from.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
12:37 p.m.
On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
Just throwing this out to see what other people
think.
I suspect we're at the tail end of the usage life of devices that don't
speak IP.
I'm mostly thinking about networking devices 80's > 00's
So, what needs to be preserved?
Since I used to manufacture gear that spoke HASP and 3780 (and since
those protocols go back decades), I'd propose preserving data/example
hardware that used IBM's bisync protocols.
I know COMBOARDs were popular with large government-funded labs (LLNL,
LANL, Sandia National Labs, Harry Diamond Labs...), as well as with
the oil exploration sector, and a few other niches - basically places
where people had a VAX or PDP-11 and needed to exchange files in
different cities with a large IBM box. The final niche was in the
early 1990s when 3780 was the favored transport layer for EDI files
(when it was still EDI-via-dialup before EDI-over-IP).
I suspect that most people won't see much value in preserving bisync
knowledge and hardware, but in my biased experience, there was a lot
of it in the pre-TCP/IP world.
-ethan
12:55 p.m.
On 1/20/14 9:37 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
I suspect that most people won't see much value in
preserving bisync
knowledge and hardware, but in my biased experience, there was a lot
of it in the pre-TCP/IP world.
I think so too. That was (is) how the IBM world communicated, along
with the twinax devices up through AS400. I was surprised to see that
you could still buy new token-ring 16/4 cards as late as the early 00's
from companies besides IBM.
The urgency in this is I suspect that like 80's -> 00's computers, comms
gear will all be tossed out as it is replaced by equipment supporting IP
and now is the time to be trying to find it.
I disagree that it is simply a 'matter of software'. A lot of dedicated
hardware was EOLed a long time ago, and it never had software created
to support newer protocols.
The other problem I see is that I suspect that detailed documentation is
going to be even MORE difficult to find than is is for computers.
3:06 p.m.
In article <52DD632B.3070405 at bitsavers.org>,
Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> writes:
The urgency in this is I suspect that like 80's
-> 00's computers, comms
gear will all be tossed out as it is replaced by equipment supporting IP
and now is the time to be trying to find it.
I'm interested in preserving the history of stuff related to
terminals, so I guess that includes all the serial line stuff that
isn't IP based: RS-232, RS-432, SDLC, HDLC, etc.
In particular, I've been trying to figure out the synchronous
communications schemes that were used in the airline industry in order
to get some airline reservation terminals in my collection talking.
A lot of that stuff was "proprietary" but I suspect that it was just
some variant (possibly minor enough so as not to be distinguishable on
operating equipment) of an IBM synchronous serial communication
scheme.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book
<http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://ComputerGraphicsMuseum.org>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://LegalizeAdulthood.wordpress.com>
3:54 p.m.
On 1/20/14 12:06 PM, Richard wrote:
A lot of that stuff was "proprietary" but I
suspect that it was just
some variant (possibly minor enough so as not to be distinguishable on
operating equipment) of an IBM synchronous serial communication
scheme.
Univac, Burroughs and HP all had their own variants of polled block mode
terminals through synchronous comms lines. If it has a BNC coax
connector out the back, it's most likely talking 3270.
And like Will said, IBM protocols aren't going away any time soon.
That bank teller isn't filling in a form in a web browser, nor are
the people behind the desk at the DMV.
What is going away is the proprietary network hardware as the gear
to support them is retired.
On the other hand, of what interest to historians will there be for
a bunch of boxes with connectors that all pretty much look the same?
A concrete example for CHM was accepting a Kalpana Ethernet Switch.
http://webdev.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102626817
It is a really boring looking box, but it was the first device to use
switched rather than bussed Ethernet which radically changed the way
that you built out a LAN.
4:19 p.m.
On Jan 20, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
...
A concrete example for CHM was accepting a Kalpana Ethernet Switch.
http://webdev.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102626817
It is a really boring looking box, but it was the first device to use
switched rather than bussed Ethernet which radically changed the way
that you built out a LAN.
That?s debatable. In my view, the main thing that Kalpana did was successfully build a
company out of a marketing hack ? calling an Ethernet bridge by a new name and thus making
it look like a different product.
paul
5:35 p.m.
In article <52DD8D23.8090908 at bitsavers.org>,
Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> writes:
On 1/20/14 12:06 PM, Richard wrote:
Yeah, once you get into the weird polling schemes and "multiple
terminals hanging off a single modem" daisy-chain craziness, then
you're really getting into weird territory.
A lot of that stuff was "proprietary"
but I suspect that it was just
some variant (possibly minor enough so as not to be distinguishable on
operating equipment) of an IBM synchronous serial communication
scheme.
Univac, Burroughs and HP all had their own variants of polled block mode
terminals through synchronous comms lines. If it has a BNC coax
connector out the back, it's most likely talking 3270.
My airline terminal has something that looks like an RS-232 port, but
it's not RS-232. It appears to be some sort of synchronous variant of
SNA in terms of signals:
<http://user.xmission.com/~legalize/vintage/images/westinghouse/W1643-2.jpg>
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book
<http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://ComputerGraphicsMuseum.org>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://LegalizeAdulthood.wordpress.com>
6:50 p.m.
On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
My airline terminal has something that looks like an
RS-232 port, but
it's not RS-232. It appears to be some sort of synchronous variant of
SNA in terms of signals:
<http://user.xmission.com/~legalize/vintage/images/westinghouse/W1643-2.jpg>
I have an "Informer" terminal that sounds like that - the terminals
are identical, but the one that talks to the modem acts like an SNA PU
Type 2 (like a 3274), and all of the terminals attached to the
downstream connector act as terminals to it. They were available for
cheap ($50?) at Dayton about 20 years ago. We got them to help
characterize some additional valid BIND sequences in our efforts to
support our SNA COMBOARD customers. That was most of our debugging
time - getting the BIND right. Once all the right fields and options
were correct, things worked great. We usually got calls when the
customer would upgrade their IBM over the weekend and reset all the
comm params to defaults.
-ethan
7:27 p.m.
On 20/01/2014 22:35, Richard wrote:
In article <52DD8D23.8090908 at bitsavers.org>,
Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> writes:
Do you mean not RS-232 ASYNC. Sync interfaces, including SDLC and HDLC
are still RS-232...
On 1/20/14 12:06 PM, Richard wrote:
Yeah, once you get into the weird
polling schemes and "multiple
terminals hanging off a single modem" daisy-chain craziness, then
you're really getting into weird territory.
A lot of that stuff was "proprietary"
but I suspect that it was just
some variant (possibly minor enough so as not to be distinguishable on
operating equipment) of an IBM synchronous serial communication
scheme.
Univac, Burroughs and HP all had their own variants of polled block mode
terminals through synchronous comms lines. If it has a BNC coax
connector out the back, it's most likely talking 3270.
My airline terminal has
something that looks like an RS-232 port, but
it's not RS-232. It appears to be some sort of synchronous variant of
SNA in terms of signals:
<http://user.xmission.com/~legalize/vintage/images/westinghouse/W1643-2.jpg>
21 Jan
21 Jan
12:54 a.m.
In article <52DDBF08.3030405 at gmail.com>,
Dave <dave.g4ugm at gmail.com> writes:
Do you mean not RS-232 ASYNC. Sync interfaces,
including SDLC and HDLC
are still RS-232...
I guess they are RS-232 in terms of pinout and signal levels, but the
synchronous nature of the protocol means anything colloquially
referred to as an "RS-232 terminal" ain't gonna work.
In addition to the synchronous communications, there is the entire
layering of frames and data packets on top of the synchronous
handshake. No ASCII RS-232 terminal is going to understand that
unless it has firmware to talk SDLC/HDLC/etc.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book
<http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://ComputerGraphicsMuseum.org>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://LegalizeAdulthood.wordpress.com>
4:53 p.m.
Univac,
Burroughs and HP all had their own variants of polled block mode
terminals through synchronous comms lines.
Yeah, once you get into the weird polling schemes and "multiple
terminals hanging off a single modem" daisy-chain craziness, then
you're really getting into weird territory. 
20 Jan
20 Jan
6:43 p.m.
At 02:54 PM 1/20/2014, Al Kossow wrote:
And like Will said, IBM protocols aren't going away
any time soon.
That bank teller isn't filling in a form in a web browser,
FIS (of Milwaukee, formerly Metavante, aka M&I or Marshall & Ilsley)
is a bank processor and I believe it was only within the last month
or so that they removed access to the 3270 screen in favor of a
hybrid local app / browser-based app. It speaks over their private lines;
not over the Internet.
- John
1 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com
Sent: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 12:37:08 -0500
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: What to preserve from the pre-IP era
On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
And then, on the other end of the spectrum, you have all of those
funky network 'things' (hardware and software)that were in vogue
during the dawn of the office LAN: 3Com 3+Share and friends,
3Com EtherSeries, early NetWare and their peculiar fileservers,
ArcNet, BrokenRing, etc., etc. etc. Not a TCP/IP packet to be
found anywhere here (at least, not until much later...).
____________________________________________________________
FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop!
Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/earth
Just throwing this out to see what other people
think.
I suspect we're at the tail end of the usage life of devices that don't
speak IP.
I'm mostly thinking about networking devices 80's > 00's
So, what needs to be preserved?
Since I used to manufacture gear that spoke HASP and 3780 (and since
those protocols go back decades), I'd propose preserving data/example
hardware that used IBM's bisync protocols.
I know COMBOARDs were popular with large government-funded labs (LLNL,
LANL, Sandia National Labs, Harry Diamond Labs...), as well as with
the oil exploration sector, and a few other niches - basically places
where people had a VAX or PDP-11 and needed to exchange files in
different cities with a large IBM box. The final niche was in the
early 1990s when 3780 was the favored transport layer for EDI files
(when it was still EDI-via-dialup before EDI-over-IP).
I suspect that most people won't see much value in preserving bisync
knowledge and hardware, but in my biased experience, there was a lot
of it in the pre-TCP/IP world.
-ethan 
1:24 p.m.
On Jan 20, 2014, at 10:00 AM, N0body H0me <n0body.h0me at inbox.com> wrote:
And then, on the other end of the spectrum, you have all of those
funky network 'things' (hardware and software)that were in vogue
during the dawn of the office LAN: 3Com 3+Share and friends,
3Com EtherSeries, early NetWare and their peculiar fileservers,
ArcNet, BrokenRing, etc., etc. etc. Not a TCP/IP packet to be
found anywhere here (at least, not until much later...).
...and let's not forget CaosNet.
TTFN - Guy
21 Jan
21 Jan
2:19 a.m.
On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 7:24 PM, Guy Sotomayor <ggs at shiresoft.com> wrote:
...and let's not forget CaosNet.
Banyan VINES and StreetTalk was also in use where I worked at the time.
It was my first experience with a Network Operating System that
included a directory service.
--
Regards,
Torfinn Ingolfsen
20 Jan
20 Jan
1:41 p.m.
And then, on the other end of the spectrum, you have all of those
funky
network 'things' (hardware and software)that
were in vogue during the
dawn of the office LAN: 3Com 3+Share and friends, 3Com EtherSeries,
early
NetWare and their peculiar fileservers, ArcNet,
BrokenRing, etc., etc.
etc.
Not a TCP/IP packet to be found anywhere here (at
least, not until
much
later...).
And, there was the whole world pre-IP serial-line and dial-up networking
with stuff like UUCP, and various BBS networking technologies like
FidoNET, etc.
This area of networking by itself would require significant resource to
document.
-Rick B.
2:50 p.m.
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014, Rick Bensene wrote:
And, there was the whole world pre-IP serial-line and
dial-up networking
with stuff like UUCP, and various BBS networking technologies like
FidoNET, etc.
http://ftsc.org/ (I'm still running 1:138/142. :D )
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
1:18 p.m.
I suspect that most people won't see much value in
preserving bisync
knowledge and hardware, but in my biased experience, there was a lot
of it in the pre-TCP/IP world.
There is a tendency with many people (some professionals) to think
that computer networking is, was, and will always be the ARPAnet, the
Internet, and all things TCP/IP.
--
Will
2:28 p.m.
On Jan 20, 2014, at 1:18 PM, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
Of course, the ARPAnet wasn?t always TCP/IP. ARPAnet bits predating that switch would be
seriously interesting. Do IMPs still exist? I think so. Software to run them? Software
for your PDP-11 to talk to the IMP-11 Unibus to IMP interface?
Before the final victory of TCP/IP, there were lots of company-specific networking
protocols. DECnet is of course well known, but other manufacturers had their own too (or
in the case of IBM, several of their own). And there are the other industry or
international standards that didn?t make it, like the whole OSI stack ? used not only by
DEC but also, for example, by CDC.
You can also find interesting bits of networking technology beyond these. For example,
DEC Typeset-11 systems had their own network stack. And they talked to Harris graphics
terminals via multidrop lines driven by DL-11/E interfaces, speaking Bisync. (I wish I
was kidding but I?m not.) Or PLATO with its amazing terminal interconnect scheme, or its
early and apparently entirely undocumented ?Doelz network? for wide area host to host
connections.
Just listing all the protocols out there would be a significant (and worthwhile) task.
For one thing, such a list would tell you what to look for to preserve.
paul
I suspect that
most people won't see much value in preserving bisync
knowledge and hardware, but in my biased experience, there was a lot
of it in the pre-TCP/IP world.
There is a tendency with many people (some professionals) to think
that computer networking is, was, and will always be the ARPAnet, the
Internet, and all things TCP/IP. 
3:17 p.m.
On 01/20/2014 11:28 AM, Paul Koning wrote:
Before the final victory of TCP/IP, there were lots
of
company-specific networking protocols. DECnet is of course well
known, but other manufacturers had their own too (or in the case of
IBM, several of their own). And there are the other industry or
international standards that didn?t make it, like the whole OSI stack
? used not only by DEC but also, for example, by CDC.
Not to forget Wang's VS 928 networking...
--Chuck
7:49 p.m.
--On January 20, 2014 2:28:27 PM -0500 Paul Koning
<paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
On Jan 20, 2014, at 1:18 PM, William Donzelli
<wdonzelli at gmail.com>
wrote:
Of course, the ARPAnet wasn?t always TCP/IP. ARPAnet bits
predating that switch would be seriously interesting. Do IMPs still
exist? I think so. Software to run them? Software for your PDP-11
to talk to the IMP-11 Unibus to IMP interface?
Another predecessor of the Internet as we know it was the Merit
Computer Network in Michigan. There were probably other interesting
regional networks, but Merit built its own hardware and had its own
packet switching software and protocols before the Internet existed.
It also ran the NSFNet backbone for a time, of course, but that was
later. I expect that the hardware is all gone, but the software is
probably still around.
A predecessor of Merit at Michigan was the ConComp project which built
a machine known as the Data Concentrator. [1] This is also
interesting, partly because it was the first non-IBM product ever
connected to an IBM 360 channel. It didn't do networking in the
Internet sense, but provided terminal access to mainframe computers for
years. The software for this might still be around somewhere too,
papers about it certainly are.
Dave's history at the link below is slightly misleading. The Data
Concentrator actually predates the Model 67 at Michigan. It was first
attached to a Model 50 in 1966. I was present for the event (since I
wrote the supervisor it was talking to) and remember that it soon put
the Model 50's microcode into a loop which was an interesting
experience.
Mike
[1] <http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/gallery/gallery7.html>
I suspect
that most people won't see much value in preserving bisync
knowledge and hardware, but in my biased experience, there was a lot
of it in the pre-TCP/IP world.
There is a tendency with many people (some professionals) to think
that computer networking is, was, and will always be the ARPAnet, the
Internet, and all things TCP/IP.
1:06 p.m.
I suspect we're at the tail end of the usage life
of devices that don't
speak IP.
Probably, but SNA will continue to die for the next 20 years, as it
has the previous 20.
I'm mostly thinking about networking devices
80's > 00's
I assume then that CHM thinks that any pre-ARPAnet networking is worthy, right?
So, what needs to be preserved?
I might think any of the networking standards from the major players -
clearly IBM, but also CDC, Burroughs, etc. Military stuff, too (some
of which might still be in use).
in 2010, but it is a big topic and there were a lot of
evolutionary
dead-ends.
But some evolutionary dead-ends are certainly important and historic.
I know there are huge swaths of telephony and
networking that I've
never
even looked at.
Some day the telephone people with get serious about their history (or
at least the history of what happens beyond the kitchen wall), so I
would suggest CHM lets them deal with their documentation and
knowledge. I see hope - there are more and more guys that have started
real work in old central office and long lines technology, and the
number seems to be growing. They just need to be "shown the way".
--
Will
1:30 p.m.
On 01/20/2014 10:06 AM, William Donzelli wrote:
Some day the telephone people with get serious about
their history (or
at least the history of what happens beyond the kitchen wall), so I
would suggest CHM lets them deal with their documentation and
knowledge. I see hope - there are more and more guys that have started
real work in old central office and long lines technology, and the
number seems to be growing. They just need to be "shown the way".
I was surprised the other day by an inability to locate an online photo
of a Bell 208 modem. A few 208 compatibles, yes, but not the seemingly
ubiquitous Western Electric model found everywhere.
So, the hole is already forming.
--Chuck
2:44 p.m.
On 01/20/2014 10:06 AM, William Donzelli wrote:
I am a mmeber of of the (UK) Telecommunications Herritage Group, and the
number of memebrs interested in old datacomms stuff can be couned on the
fingers of one had -- in unary.
I think part of the reason is that an old telepohne is stil luseful. You
can connect it to a modern POTS line and make and receive calls. Yes, you
can conenct up a 300 baud modem i nthe same way, but good luck in finding
somehtign to call. And if you do, well, broadband is, I am told, many, many,
times faster...
I have a few older modems, etc, and I am keepign them. Heck, I even use
them sometiems on my line simualtor.
Another thing that should be preserved IMHO is the X25 networking stuff
that was used for the UK JANET netowrk. I have a JNT--PAD somewhere too.
And a 'York Box' (X25 interface for machines withotu synchronous serial
ports -- it consistes of a DEC BA11-V with a Falcon, 28K words of DRAM,
DRV11 and DPV11 cards. The DPV11 is the X25 port, the DRV11 (parallel)
or a port on the Falcon (serial_) are the host interface).
-tony
Some day the telephone people with get serious
about their history (or
at least the history of what happens beyond the kitchen wall), so I
would suggest CHM lets them deal with their documentation and
knowledge. I see hope - there are more and more guys that have started
real work in old central office and long lines technology, and the
number seems to be growing. They just need to be "shown the way".
I was surprised the other day by an inability to locate an online photo
of a Bell 208 modem. A few 208 compatibles, yes, but not the seemingly
ubiquitous Western Electric model found everywhere.
7:12 p.m.
On 20/01/2014 19:44, Tony Duell wrote:
I worked at Salford University on X.25 software for IBM Mainframes. As
far as I know all of that has disappeared and mention of it generally
results in derision. However we were able to transfer files and send
e-mails between IBM Mainframes, running MVS, MTS, & VM, DEC Vax,
Honeywell L66, Prime Primes, Sun and I think we had a port for 3B2 but I
never worked on that...
The IBM VM Version was used at around 20 Universities in the UK but as
far as I know no copies of the software remain. IBM pretty much refused
to sell it outside the University as they would sell the x.25 interface
code that ran in a Series/1....
In fact worse than that, there is no mention of thos software at my
local museum, MOSI (www.mosi.org.uk) even though it has a communications
gallery..
I know this was all "dead end" but its interesting to note that some of
the issues we hit , such as where do the "[" and "]" characters go on
EBCDIC still cause issues today as recent posts on the IBM Assembler
demonstrate...
Now that brings me round to IBM Networking , there are several distinct
phases of IBM "Networking", so the third computer I programmed back in
1972 was the IBM 360/67 and Newcastle Upon Tyne University. We accessed
this from an IBM1130 running the RJE system. The 360/67 was later
upgraded to a 370. This was a bi-sync link. Interestingly almost all the
bits of software used to run this is preserved.
IBM had a huge bi-sync network called VNET. This used store and forward
networking to transfer files, but also a program called PVM that allowed
terminal sessions to hop across mainframes. This was all before SNA . I
don't think any of this software is preserved. The problem is that both
PVM and VNET(now RSCS) are current Program Products so old versions
can't be obtained. The same goes for the IBM SNA software.....
Of course the rest of the BUNCH also had similar networking systems. On
the Honeywell L66 we had equivalents to the IBM 2780 and 3780 RJE work
stations....(RNP-707 perhaps).....
Any way Al sorry to ramble , but that doesn't help you develop a
collections or acquisition policy. There is so much and it goes obsolete
so quickly. I think in your case perhaps you should look at collecting
to support the main items in your collection....
Dave.
On 01/20/2014
10:06 AM, William Donzelli wrote:
I am a mmeber of of the (UK)
Telecommunications Herritage Group, and the
number of memebrs interested in old datacomms stuff can be couned on the
fingers of one had -- in unary.
I think part of the reason is that an old telepohne is stil luseful. You
can connect it to a modern POTS line and make and receive calls. Yes, you
can conenct up a 300 baud modem i nthe same way, but good luck in finding
somehtign to call. And if you do, well, broadband is, I am told, many, many,
times faster...
I have a few older modems, etc, and I am keepign them. Heck, I even use
them sometiems on my line simualtor.
Another thing that should be preserved IMHO is the X25 networking stuff
that was used for the UK JANET netowrk. I have a JNT--PAD somewhere too.
And a 'York Box' (X25 interface for machines withotu synchronous serial
ports -- it consistes of a DEC BA11-V with a Falcon, 28K words of DRAM,
DRV11 and DPV11 cards. The DPV11 is the X25 port, the DRV11 (parallel)
or a port on the Falcon (serial_) are the host interface).
-tony Some day the telephone people with get serious
about their history (or
at least the history of what happens beyond the kitchen wall), so I
would suggest CHM lets them deal with their documentation and
knowledge. I see hope - there are more and more guys that have started
real work in old central office and long lines technology, and the
number seems to be growing. They just need to be "shown the way".
I was
surprised the other day by an inability to locate an online photo
of a Bell 208 modem. A few 208 compatibles, yes, but not the seemingly
ubiquitous Western Electric model found everywhere.
7:38 p.m.
On 21/01/2014 00:12, Dave wrote:
On 20/01/2014 19:44, Tony Duell wrote:
I worked at Salford University on X.25 software for IBM Mainframes. As
far as I know all of that has disappeared and mention of it generally
results in derision. However we were able to transfer files and send
e-mails between IBM Mainframes, running MVS, MTS, & VM, DEC Vax,
Honeywell L66, Prime Primes, Sun and I think we had a port for 3B2 but
I never worked on that...
The IBM VM Version was used at around 20 Universities in the UK but as
far as I know no copies of the software remain. IBM pretty much
refused to sell it outside the University as they would sell the x.25
interface code that ran in a Series/1....
In fact worse than that, there is no mention of thos software at my
local museum, MOSI (www.mosi.org.uk) even though it has a
communications gallery..
I know this was all "dead end" but its interesting to note that some
of the issues we hit , such as where do the "[" and "]" characters go
on EBCDIC still cause issues today as recent posts on the IBM
Assembler demonstrate...
Now that brings me round to IBM Networking , there are several
distinct phases of IBM "Networking", so the third computer I
programmed back in 1972 was the IBM 360/67 and Newcastle Upon Tyne
University. We accessed this from an IBM1130 running the RJE system.
The 360/67 was later upgraded to a 370. This was a bi-sync link.
Interestingly almost all the bits of software used to run this is
preserved.
IBM had a huge bi-sync network called VNET. This used store and
forward networking to transfer files, but also a program called PVM
that allowed terminal sessions to hop across mainframes. This was all
before SNA . I don't think any of this software is preserved. The
problem is that both PVM and VNET(now RSCS) are current Program
Products so old versions can't be obtained. The same goes for the IBM
SNA software.....
Of course the rest of the BUNCH also had similar networking systems.
On the Honeywell L66 we had equivalents to the IBM 2780 and 3780 RJE
work stations....(RNP-707 perhaps).....
Any way Al sorry to ramble , but that doesn't help you develop a
collections or acquisition policy. There is so much and it goes
obsolete so quickly. I think in your case perhaps you should look at
collecting to support the main items in your collection....
Dave.
I managed to find one reference on the web to the Honeywell Remote
Network Processor model 700 here:-
http://digital-library.theiet.org/docserver/fulltext/ep/19/11/19730310.pdf?…
On
01/20/2014 10:06 AM, William Donzelli wrote:
I am a mmeber of of the (UK)
Telecommunications Herritage Group, and the
number of memebrs interested in old datacomms stuff can be couned on the
fingers of one had -- in unary.
I think part of the reason is that an old telepohne is stil luseful. You
can connect it to a modern POTS line and make and receive calls. Yes,
you
can conenct up a 300 baud modem i nthe same way, but good luck in
finding
somehtign to call. And if you do, well, broadband is, I am told,
many, many,
times faster...
I have a few older modems, etc, and I am keepign them. Heck, I even use
them sometiems on my line simualtor.
Another thing that should be preserved IMHO is the X25 networking stuff
that was used for the UK JANET netowrk. I have a JNT--PAD somewhere too.
And a 'York Box' (X25 interface for machines withotu synchronous serial
ports -- it consistes of a DEC BA11-V with a Falcon, 28K words of DRAM,
DRV11 and DPV11 cards. The DPV11 is the X25 port, the DRV11 (parallel)
or a port on the Falcon (serial_) are the host interface).
-tony Some day the telephone people with get serious
about their history (or
at least the history of what happens beyond the kitchen wall), so I
would suggest CHM lets them deal with their documentation and
knowledge. I see hope - there are more and more guys that have started
real work in old central office and long lines technology, and the
number seems to be growing. They just need to be "shown the way".
I was
surprised the other day by an inability to locate an online photo
of a Bell 208 modem. A few 208 compatibles, yes, but not the seemingly
ubiquitous Western Electric model found everywhere.
1:49 p.m.
On 1/20/14 10:06 AM, William Donzelli wrote:
I was thinking of devices that people might still have.
As Chuck just pointed out with not being able to even find a picture of a Bell 208
the chances of finding things 80's and newer is in the window of 'in storage and
about to be thrown out' as opposed to 'buried in a landfill'.
I'm mostly
thinking about networking devices 80's > 00's
I assume then that CHM thinks that any pre-ARPAnet networking is worthy, right?
3:01 p.m.
I was thinking of devices that people might still
have.
As Chuck just pointed out with not being able to even find a picture of a
Bell 208
Modems. Poor, unwanted modems.
I *still* have a bunch of Bell 205 modems from Goddard Space Flight
that nobody wants. Even the telephone guys did not one.
I think their day has come. They have had a ten year stay of
execution. I will keep two for myself, I suppose, with some
hare-brained idea of getting them talking, but the rest will be
treated as ore.
--
Will
6:45 p.m.
On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 3:01 PM, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
You want to talk about unwanted modems? Anything that doesn't support
the Hayes "AT" command set. I have several. We used to use them back
in the days of dialling into the office with a dumb terminal. I have
in particular a couple of Ventel MD212-plus and a couple Cermatek
modems with some vendor-unique dialling control sequence, both 1200
baud. I can't say that I _need_ to call anything up at 1200 baud, but
they aren't huge, so I don't mind keeping one or two around.
When it comes time for Spring Cleaning (once we stop getting polar
vortexes), I should drag these out and at least dust them off and take
pictures.
(not my pictures)
www.flickr.com/photos/chiclassiccomp/522484788/in/photostream/
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/z/LvIAAOxyNo9StPwH/$_12.JPG
(valid in Jan 2014, but not likely to stick around for a long time)
-ethan
I was thinking
of devices that people might still have.
As Chuck just pointed out with not being able to even find a picture of a
Bell 208
Modems. Poor, unwanted modems. 
21 Jan
21 Jan
12:47 a.m.
In article <CAALmim=rjUCyr-+6_vhudBUaDoaj2QKJeowM4bnqTigVPwREJQ at mail.gmail.com>,
Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> writes:
You want to talk about unwanted modems? Anything that
doesn't support
the Hayes "AT" command set.
how about an acoustic coupler?
<http://user.xmission.com/~legalize/tmp/vintage/blackhole/pick3/WP_000318.jpg>
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book
<http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://ComputerGraphicsMuseum.org>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://LegalizeAdulthood.wordpress.com>
1:12 a.m.
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 12:47 AM, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
In article
<CAALmim=rjUCyr-+6_vhudBUaDoaj2QKJeowM4bnqTigVPwREJQ at mail.gmail.com>,
Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> writes:
I myself never used one of my own. I did use an LA36 (in a closet in
one of the rarely-visited rooms at Ohio State) in the late 70s that
had an acoustic coupler, but my own first modem was a Commodore "VIC
Modem" which I got through my first job to go with a Commodore-64 (for
those that haven't used one, you picked up a phone, dialled manually,
waited for the carrier, then removed the coiled handset cord from the
handset and plugged the jack directly into the modem to complete your
connection).
The terminal program on the included cassette tape was so bad, I wrote
my own in BASIC. It didn't handle ANSI/VT-100 sequences, but it was a
decent "glass TTY" emulator. My next modem was one of those Ventel MD
212 Plus models I was just writing about earlier tonight, already old
when it came into my hands.
-ethan
You want to talk about unwanted modems? Anything
that doesn't support
the Hayes "AT" command set.
how about an acoustic coupler?
<http://user.xmission.com/~legalize/tmp/vintage/blackhole/pick3/WP_000318.jpg>
10:54 a.m.
In article <CAALmim=WbnWWyQbRtwsCCcTJuq8hW+ZdKtBC7Wv8dNAvKyjuoQ at mail.gmail.com>,
Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> writes:
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 12:47 AM, Richard <legalize
at xmission.com> wrote:
> how about an acoustic coupler?
> <http://user.xmission.com/~legalize/tmp/vintage/blackhole/pick3/WP_000318.j
pg>
I myself never used one of my own. I did use an LA36 [...]
Funny you should mention LA36. I picked up that acoustic coupler from
The Black Hole before they closed and it is the *exact* model we used
for the LA36s at University of Delaware!
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book
<http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://ComputerGraphicsMuseum.org>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://LegalizeAdulthood.wordpress.com>
20 Jan
20 Jan
7:09 p.m.
On Jan 20, 2014, at 12:01 , William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
Modems. Poor, unwanted modems.
I *still* have a bunch of Bell 205 modems from Goddard Space Flight
that nobody wants. Even the telephone guys did not one.
I just did a google search to try and see what a Bell 205 modem looks like and/or how it
was used. They have impressive main rotors on top.
But seriously, I failed to find anything about them. What are they? What do they look
like? Can they be used on POTS lines?
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
11:49 p.m.
I just did a google search to try and see what a Bell
205 modem looks like and/or how it was used. They have impressive main rotors on top.
But seriously, I failed to find anything about them. What are they? What do they look
like? Can they be used on POTS lines?
They are 23 inch rackmount monsters from 1966 or so. I think they are
2400 Baud. A Bell System friend says these were typically used by
various government agencies with crypto boxes (so yes, maybe rotors).
--
Will
21 Jan
21 Jan
12:46 a.m.
On 01/20/2014 08:49 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
They are 23 inch rackmount monsters from 1966 or so. I
think they are
2400 Baud. A Bell System friend says these were typically used by
various government agencies with crypto boxes (so yes, maybe rotors).
Speaking of government networks, is there any Autodin stuff in
collectors' hands? Now there's a network that really goes back...
--Chuck
20 Jan
20 Jan
4:29 p.m.
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 5:06 AM, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
I might think any of the networking standards from the
major players -
clearly IBM, but also CDC, Burroughs, etc. Military stuff, too (some
of which might still be in use).
I add my vote to acquire material related to these participants and activities.
An interesting non-military, non-research global network was the
banking network known as SWIFT (Society for Worldwide Interbank
Financial Telecommunication) that commenced in the early 1970s. SWIFT
was initially bisync, then packet switched, then IP based. It only
went IP based sometime in the late 1990s. Burroughs, Fujitsu and GA
were early technology contributors, and I had an idea the Burroughs
Network Architecture (BNA) was informed by and contributed back to the
early SWIFT designs.
6:46 p.m.
I think the whole IBM 360/370 Mainframe telecommunications environment is
worth preserving but I suspect most of it has long been junked or recycled.
This started in the 60s, exploded in the late 70s and 80s and came to a
crashing death in the early 90s. IMO in terms of telecommunications impact
on society there is little to compare with IBM and its followers until the
IP era
The environment would include
- IBM TSO
- IBM ACP (Airlines Control Program)
- Access methods such as QTAM, TCAM and VTAM
- Dumb telecommunications controllers like the IBM 270x and the
Memorex 1270
- IBM NCP and associated smart controllers like the IBM 3705 and
Memorex 1370 including their software
- The various terminals that attached with protocols like Async,
Bisync, SDLC, etc
I know of no organization collecting same.
FWIW, I have been looking for a Memorex 1270 for the CHM but so far without
luck. I think the last one probably went to the scrap yard in the late 90s,
but u never know what might turn up, particularly for old government sites.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: Al Kossow [mailto:aek at bitsavers.org]
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 9:21 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: What to preserve from the pre-IP era
Just throwing this out to see what other people think.
I suspect we're at the tail end of the usage life
of devices that don't
speak IP.
I'm mostly thinking about networking devices
80's > 00's
So, what needs to be preserved? How much of this does
CHM need to do? Is
any other
collecting institution already covering this? How much
is within scope?
We've been having curatorial discussions about
this for years inside CHM,
and have
been doing some directed collecting since before the
big exhibition was
locked down
in 2010, but it is a big topic and there were a lot of
evolutionary dead-
ends.
What got me thinking about this is I've been
working with someone who has
storage
units full of mid-80's IBM SNA stuff and it's
taken me months to scan a
fraction
of it. I know there are huge swaths of telephony and
networking that I've
never
even looked at. It's pretty overwhelming,
actually, to get my head around
from the
software side.
9:36 p.m.
My short list would include any available materials related to the
following, in addition to ARPAnet and Internet history:
RSCS:
The obvious IBM stuff, but also things like URep and JNet; both of which
seem to have disappeared entirely.
Some of the BITNET history is interesting and has had lasting impact.
DECnet:
We got things like ISIS from DECnet.
Xerox XNS:
This was really influential; even implemented in BSD.
The ISO OSI protocols:
These were also really influential, even if they never had much direct
impact.
Chaosnet:
An oft overlooked footnote in networking history; this stuff even made it
into Lisp machines.
Oberon System 3:
Not exactly a networking system per se, but the networking that was built
into Oberon was pretty cool.
On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
Just throwing this out to see what other people
think.
I suspect we're at the tail end of the usage life of devices that don't
speak IP.
I'm mostly thinking about networking devices 80's > 00's
So, what needs to be preserved? How much of this does CHM need to do? Is
any other
collecting institution already covering this? How much is within scope?
We've been having curatorial discussions about this for years inside CHM,
and have
been doing some directed collecting since before the big exhibition was
locked down
in 2010, but it is a big topic and there were a lot of evolutionary
dead-ends.
What got me thinking about this is I've been working with someone who has
storage
units full of mid-80's IBM SNA stuff and it's taken me months to scan a
fraction
of it. I know there are huge swaths of telephony and networking that I've
never
even looked at. It's pretty overwhelming, actually, to get my head around
from the
software side.
21 Jan
21 Jan
12:04 p.m.
On Jan 20, 2014, at 9:36 PM, Dan Cross <crossd at gmail.com> wrote:
My short list would include any available materials
related to the
following, in addition to ARPAnet and Internet history:
...
DECnet:
We got things like ISIS from DECnet.
And OSPF, and some of the congestion control bits of TCP. And while it wasn?t technically
DECnet, the bridge (switch) spanning tree protocol came from DEC, designed by some of the
same people that designed DECnet.
paul
3:32 p.m.
From: Dan Cross
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 6:37 PM
On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
> Just throwing this out to see what other people
think.
I, for one, think that it's a great idea.
> I suspect we're at the tail end of the usage
life of devices that don't
> speak IP. I'm mostly thinking about networking devices 80's >>
00's
> So, what needs to be preserved? How much of this
does CHM need to do?
> Is any other collecting institution already covering this? How much is
> within scope?
Within scope? All of it. ;-)
> We've been having curatorial discussions about
this for years inside
> CHM, and have been doing some directed collecting since before the big
> exhibition was locked down in 2010, but it is a big topic and there
> were a lot of evolutionary dead-ends.
As someone else pointed out, many of the dead ends are important for what
they taught us about what did *not* work. (Not unlike EDEs in palaeontology :-)
> What got me thinking about this is I've been
working with someone who
> has storage units full of mid-80's IBM SNA stuff and it's taken me
> months to scan a fraction of it. I know there are huge swaths of
> telephony and networking that I've never even looked at. It's pretty
> overwhelming, actually, to get my head around from the software side.
There are telephony museums. Here in Seattle, the Museum of Communications
is a good example. Located in the unused upper floors of a working central
office, they have working examples of switches from the very early stuff to
a 1ESS, and documentation to go with it.
Non-circuit switched networking is a lot less well represented.
My short list would include any available materials
related to the
following, in addition to ARPAnet and Internet history:
RSCS:
The obvious IBM stuff, but also things like URep and
JNet; both of which
seem to have disappeared entirely.
Some of the BITNET history is interesting and has had lasting impact.
I was at the SHARE presentation at which BITNET was presented to the world
at large, where it was touted as an alternative to both the ARPANET and the
UUCP-based CSnet for universities that wanted to provide e-mail and file
sharing to their users. ("Because It's Time" was the credo of the project,
enshrined in the name.) As Lynn Wheeler is (perhaps overly) fond of
pointing out in various Usenet groups, the IBM-internal VNET used the BITNET
software to good advantage.
DECnet:
We got things like ISIS from DECnet.
Xerox XNS:
This was really influential; even implemented in BSD.
XNS grew out of PARC Universal Packets, of course, and PUP had a great deal
of influence on the implementation of TCP/IP. (At least, that was the view
I was provided with in Silicon Valley.) PUP was implemented in TOPS-20 and
WAITS for the MEIS ("Massbus Ethernet Interface System") at Stanford, and in
the terminal servers and routers based on SUN boards (also used in the SUN-1
workstation), before TCP/IP was available.
I think everyone knows what came out of the MEIS and that other gear.
The ISO OSI protocols:
These were also really influential, even if they never had much direct
impact.
I'd say that X.25, at the very least, had a large--and continuing--impact.
Chaosnet:
An oft overlooked footnote in networking history; this stuff even made it
into Lisp machines.
I think "even made it into" rather misses the point, since as far as I can
tell it was *created* for the purpose of connecting CADRs and PDP-10s together.
Rich
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Vulcan, Inc.
505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900
Seattle, WA 98104
mailto:RichA at vulcan.com
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
3:52 p.m.
> So, what
needs to be preserved? How much of this does CHM need to do?
> Is any other collecting institution already covering this? How much is
> within scope?
Within scope? All of it. ;-)
4:21 p.m.
On 01/21/2014 12:52 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
Perhaps rather than all of us pointing out every
networking system
ever made, we should be qualifying *why* each one deserves to be
saved.
We can not save it all.
...Which is an excellent argument for saving the implementation
information rather than the hardware itself--i.e., save paper not iron.
--Chuck
25 Jan
25 Jan
9:48 a.m.
On 1/20/14, 12:20 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
Just throwing this out to see what other people
think.
I suspect we're at the tail end of the usage life of devices that
don't speak IP.
I'm mostly thinking about networking devices 80's > 00's
It's a
very interesting question. I'm not sure I can answer without
injecting my own experience and bias.
I'd like to see a smattering of ethernet-ish non-ip work. Xerox XNS,
Novell Netware, Apple Localtalk, Decnet. Certainly 3Mb and 10Mb
ethernet. And naturally IBM SNA with a 3270 and CICS. A basic tribute
to the phsyical layer, twinax, coax, big ethernet with vampire taps,
twisted pair, fiber.
Something should to be said about IBM token ring. And Apollo's ring.
I think at one time DEC's internal decnet network was pretty damn big.
Worth mentioning DDCMP and phase iv.
Some tribute to low speed serial, with current loop and rs-232
terminals, from the ASR's up to X terminals.
Early modems, including that (swear words) Anderson Jacobson acoustic
coupler and the early Hayes products.
I don't know what to say about ISO protocols.
It might be interesting to say something about military/ga avionics comm
standards. There are a lot of them and some of them spilled over. I
laugh because now days you update your NAV gear with a USB stick (on the
ground :-)
The BBN/MIT/ARPAnet IMP work deserves it's own space. It relied on what
was around at the time (and yes, how that wikipedia article could not
mention Interdata is beyond me). But it should be noted that TCP was
not the first stream protocol they used.
Maybe a nod to MIT Chaosnet? (ok, Aloha too. perhaps the whole
ethernet thing is it's own space).
Maybe something about the phone system, T1 lines and sync framing. How
the T1 evolved from pcm audio to framed data. (where is my
picturephone!!?? :-) ISDN happened along the way, but faded quickly.
Worth mentioning as a false start.
(I know this is all US centric; Thinks like MINITEL also played a part
I'm sure, and 50 other projects I never heard of)
I wonder if a small tribute to UUCP is in order. Which begs the
question of FIDOnet (which I don't know much about). And well, there's
CIS. I once broke into a fleet of dec-10/20's (with a modem) as a
youth using a sysop password someone gave me and marveled at being able
to hop from one host to another - I must have jumped through 20-30
machine before I got bored. I'm guessing that was all
decnet-over-sync-lines.
(that was a fun cat and mouse - it was clear the owner was running
something in the background which was logging activity. i discovered
the logs and then hacked the monitor program not to log and erased the
logs. he kept 'fixing it' and restarting it and I kept 'unfixing it'
and erasing. that went on for days. i hope he could see the humor in
it all. so much for a misspent youth.)
Wow. Yes, daunting. Best of luck.
-brad
11:20 a.m.
On 01/25/2014 09:48 AM, Brad Parker wrote:
On 1/20/14, 12:20 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
As to IP going away, IPV6 has the ability to go on (enough bits) and
the basic protocol fits in small things
now and its well known. The embedded developer will only jump when its
cheaper or does something
badly needed.
Just throwing this out to see what other people
think.
I suspect we're at the tail end of the usage life of devices that
don't speak IP.
I'm mostly thinking about networking devices 80's > 00's
It's a
very interesting question. I'm not sure I can answer without
injecting my own experience and bias.
I'd like to see a smattering of ethernet-ish
non-ip work. Xerox XNS,
Novell Netware, Apple Localtalk, Decnet. Certainly 3Mb and 10Mb
ethernet. And naturally IBM SNA with a 3270 and CICS. A basic
tribute to the phsyical layer, twinax, coax, big ethernet with vampire
taps, twisted pair, fiber.
Something should to be said about IBM token ring. And Apollo's ring.
I think at one time DEC's internal decnet network was pretty damn
big. Worth mentioning DDCMP and phase iv.
By 1983 it was over 5000 nodes on more than 4 continents.
All of the netware and appletalk are in the 1985 time frame. Don't
forget the othe rlike Bayan Vines and a
few more obscure protocols.
Networking is older than that. Look up AlohaNet and UUCP to UUCP
networking.
Some tribute to low speed serial, with current loop
and rs-232
terminals, from the ASR's up to X terminals.
Early modems, including that (swear words) Anderson Jacobson acoustic
coupler and the early Hayes products.
I don't know what to say about ISO protocols.
It might be interesting to say something about military/ga avionics
comm standards. There are a lot of them and some of them spilled
over. I laugh because now days you update your NAV gear with a USB
stick (on the ground :-)
Seems there is confusion over local and wide area networks.
The BBN/MIT/ARPAnet IMP work deserves it's own
space. It relied on
what was around at the time (and yes, how that wikipedia article could
not mention Interdata is beyond me). But it should be noted that TCP
was not the first stream protocol they used.
Maybe a nod to MIT Chaosnet? (ok, Aloha too. perhaps the whole
ethernet thing is it's own space).
Seems some overlap between connectivity and the overlaying protocol
used. Aloha introduced
protocals that could handle the fact that connectivity for its parts
were radio links. Sometime the
media or phyical level drives protocol.
Maybe something about the phone system, T1 lines and
sync framing. How
the T1 evolved from pcm audio to framed data. (where is my
picturephone!!?? :-) ISDN happened along the way, but faded quickly.
Worth mentioning as a false start.
(I know this is all US centric; Thinks like MINITEL also played a part
I'm sure, and 50 other projects I never heard of)
I wonder if a small tribute to UUCP is in order. Which begs the
question of FIDOnet (which I don't know much about). And well,
there's CIS. I once broke into a fleet of dec-10/20's (with a modem)
as a youth using a sysop password someone gave me and marveled at
being able to hop from one host to another - I must have jumped
through 20-30 machine before I got bored. I'm guessing that was all
decnet-over-sync-lines.
What about amateur radio? Hams had been doing FAX/slowscan images and
RTTY in the past and also have in the last
several decades packet radio to the current "sound card modes" Where
the PC and a sound card encode and decode
multiple different encodings and protocols. I will include D-Star which
is both text and speech over mixed media
(hamd radio and internet linking).
(that was a fun cat and mouse - it was clear the owner
was running
something in the background which was logging activity. i discovered
the logs and then hacked the monitor program not to log and erased the
logs. he kept 'fixing it' and restarting it and I kept 'unfixing it'
and erasing. that went on for days. i hope he could see the humor in
it all. so much for a misspent youth.)
Wow. Yes, daunting. Best of luck.
Very daunting to even cover a slice of that.
Allison
11:51 a.m.
On 1/25/14 8:20 AM, allison wrote:
All of the netware and appletalk are in the 1985 time
frame. Don't
forget the othe rlike Bayan Vines and a
few more obscure protocols.
I just looked and Novell has the network core protocols document buried
on line. Last update was in 2006. Appletalk evolved for another 10 years.
It was just last year that Apple dropped AFP support.
Like the computer taxonomy Nigel mentioned, there should be one for
communications and networking.
26 Jan
26 Jan
3:39 p.m.
In article <52E3CEB2.9030804 at heeltoe.com>,
Brad Parker <brad at heeltoe.com> writes:
Some tribute to low speed serial, with current loop
and rs-232
terminals, from the ASR's up to X terminals.
This is pretty much what the terminals wiki is all about:
<http://terminals.classiccmp.org>
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book
<http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://ComputerGraphicsMuseum.org>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://LegalizeAdulthood.wordpress.com>
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