Surely covered on this list before, but I will re-open the box: SQL. I say "ess kyu ell." I rarely hear "sickle," although that makes some sense. I *always* hear "sequel," which requires some more imagination. It's only a hunch, but I suspect this originated from the dark halls of Redmond. -- jht

Jason T wrote: Wrong. SQL was developed at IBM sometime in the early '70s for interacting with the System/R database, and was originally called SEQUEL. It was changed because of trademark reasons. Peace... Sridhar

Chuck Guzis wrote: Sure. On both IBM machines and the Apple II. Did anyone else use it?

Well, if Apple has the Veetock, Commodore had the BAM! -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Happiness is having a scratch for every itch. -- Ogden Nash ----------------

On 8/2/10 8:06 PM, "Eric Smith" <eric at brouhaha.com> wrote: If VTOC refers to Volume Table Of Contents, there were a couple TRS-80 disk operating systems that used it -I think- memory is a little hazy here.

On 8/2/10 11:36 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: I say "dazzdee". I've never heard anyone say "Dee Ay Ess Dee". -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

Chuck Guzis wrote: DAZZ-DEE. Everyone I know who deals with IBM mainframes (and that's a *lot* of people) pronounces it that way. Peace... Sridhar

From: Chuck Guzis Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:01 PM PDP-10 programmers as a group generally pronounce many, if not all, assembler mnemonics. Rich Alderson Vintage Computing Sr. Server Engineer Vulcan, Inc. 505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900 Seattle, WA 98104 mailto:RichA at vulcan.com mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org http://www.PDPplanet.org/ http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

Andrew Burton wrote: I pronounce a wide variety of IBM mainframe mnemonics. For example BALR -> Bal-err. Peace... Sridhar

Chuck Guzis wrote: To be honest, the only reason I don't is because I've never written that kind of code on a daily basis. No matter how unpronounceable the mnemonic, I guarantee that, after a while at least, I'd start pronouncing them. Peace... Sridhar

alan canning wrote: I don't make that distinction. I refer to multiple messages received via email as "email". Peace... Sridhar

On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Christian Liendo <christian_liendo at yahoo.com> wrote: Here's an inside pic: http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/commodore-computers-make-a-return-this-y… I think these will be a flop. What OS will they run? Windows? Linux? The new AmigaOS? What would really be neat is take some middle to high-end modern hardware with high end graphics and sound hardware, and write a new minimalist OS similar to the AmigaOS from scratch in machine language with as little extra crap as possible. Unfortunately, I think no one but people like us would buy it though, and for cheap once they abandoned it. Back in the 80s, there was apparently a lot of low hanging fruit as far as the hardware was concerned. That is, it wasn't technology that was holding hardware back, it was dinosaur businesses and market politics. This allowed a no-name to come in and create something truly 10 or more years ahead of the competitors. Now, it's different. The technology and hardware costs are the limiting factors. It would be practically impossible for a start-up or a resurrected commodore to create a computer that's really 10 years ahead of everything else. And for that reason, commodore is really just creating another PC clone in what is these days an awkward form factor, while trying to use nostalgia and that quirky form factor as their main selling point. Back then, no one did music, graphics, and video editing as well or at all. Now, everyone does it. Without a killer-app like desktop video was... destined for failure. brian

Brian Lanning wrote: You mean something like MorphOS? Doc

Brian Lanning wrote: That would be neat. I remember a friend and I made a reasonably serious attempt at writing a "modern" OS when I was at uni in the early 90s, taking some of the best concepts from Unix and what was then a fledgling Windows NT, and adding our own twists to it. I seem to recall we got most of the kernel done, along with rudimentary filesystem, disk and video drivers, but in the end drinking beer was just far too important. I'm not sure that I've got any of the code left, although I think I might still have armfuls of design notes somewhere in storage overseas. It was an interesting experience for sure. With a few more people it might have actually got somewhere, I suppose. Anyway, some form of collaborative minimalist OS project might be fun, at least the design side; it's years since I've done any PC assembler and I'm not sure I'd want to get back into it again. How about a minimalist OS running in an emulator of a m68k-based computer? I'm quite a believer in distributing code, and in running code on as diverse range of devices as possible. If it can be assumed that everything has a network connection at all times (which perhaps won't be that unreasonable in a decade or so) it's possible to throw a lot of functionality onto "other machines out there" and make the system that the user actually interacts with quite streamlined. *if* that's the way things go, then technically someone could design and build a computer that was ten years ahead of its time - it's just that nobody would buy it, because it would be useless right now :-) cheers Jules

On 27 August 2010 16:09, Brian Lanning <brianlanning at gmail.com> wrote: It's been done. It's called AROS, the Amiga Research OS. http://aros.sourceforge.net/ I've played with it. It's pretty good. Needs more volunteers & more input, but it's getting there. I believe that these days it not only runs, is source-code compatible with AmigaOS, runs Amiga apps in an emulator, but it also has functional TCP/IP and USB stacks and a usable web browser, so it's heading towards being a usable OS. What it *doesn't* have is multiuser security, memory protection, virtual memory support and other modern niceties that people are used to. Similar projects: - MorphOS, closed-source freeware, runs on PowerPC hardware only. http://www.morphos-team.net/ - AmigaOS 4, closed-source commercial, runs on PowerPC hardware only, but based on original Amiga sources. http://hyperion-entertainment.biz/ Less directly related: - AtheOS started out as AmigaOS-inspired but diverged. FOSS but a one-man project by Kurt Skauen. Immensely impressive for a single-handed effort. http://atheos.cx/ - Syllable, a fork of Atheos when its author moved on to other projects. FOSS. http://web.syllable.org/pages/index.html Both are x86-32 OSs with SMP and memory protection and VM, but they are no longer Amiga-like in any significant way. Not related but in the same ballpark: - Haiku, a FOSS rewrite of BeOS. x86-32, small, clean, elegant and fast, and far more modern than AmigaOS: has memory protection, virtual memory and is SMP-aware. Does not have multiuser security, though. http://www.haiku-os.org/ There are a lot of interesting little modern GUI OSs for commodity x86 hardware out there. There is even a FOSS clone of Windows called ReactOS, which is damned impressive but seems to me to be [a] kinda missing the point of FOSS and [b] just asking to be obliterated by MS as soon as it reaches the point where it is the remotest kind of threat. -- Liam Proven ? Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508

On 1 September 2010 00:45, Doc Shipley <doc at vaxen.net> wrote: Ah! Thanks for the clarification. I thought that as Genesi have moved on to other things now, notably ARM-based boxes AIUI, that this restriction had been dropped. I'm sorry to learn not. I was thinking of trying to put it on my G4 Mac mini, but if it's still crippleware, I probably won't bother... -- Liam Proven ? Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508

What's everyones thought on this Modern PC in classic C64 clothing? Do you think this will be a gamer only purchase PC or just a small niche product that only those like us who are into retro/classic technology related products would buy? Curt Dan Gahlinger wrote:

On 27 August 2010 18:35, geoffrey oltmans <oltmansg at bellsouth.net> wrote: Agreed. I think it would be possible to do something interesting with x86 hardware inspired by 1980s hardware, but this isn't it. These are underpowered overpriced generic machines with no USPs at all apart The thing, for me, about some of the early-1980s home computers were that they were stripped to the bone to make them cheap. You could do that today. Make them entirely legacy-free, no optical or rotating media, no cooling fans, with an external heatsink. Silent and simple. A modest amount of RAM and a smallish SSD for storage, lightweight free OS, devoid of all nonessentials - no serial, parallel, keyboard, mouse, sound, Ethernet, etc. All these can be cheaply added by USB. Very simple to hook up when there's only one kind of socket. If you want to go really mad, give 'em a couple of Cardbus slots, or Cardbus + ExpressCard, so you could add Firewire, eSATA and so on to 'em. But don't cripple them with an Atom chip - those are for inexpensive battery-powered devices. Give them a cool-running desktop chip, ideally something dual-core with 64-bit. Cheapo integrated graphics, which actually can do passable 3D these days. Sell 'em for $100 or something. BYODKM, like the Mac Mini. (Bring your own display, keyboard & mouse.) Handy as a small silent server, as a home media box, as a learning tool in the developing world etc. -- Liam Proven ? Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508

http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/31/commodore-usa-to-relaunch-amiga-brand-wi…

At 6:18 AM -0700 9/1/10, Cameron Kaiser wrote: Even worse, in this one Amiga Inc, is obviously involved. A quick look shows that Hyperion Entertainment might be getting their lawyers involved. http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_… Then there is taking a look at the "Commodore USA" website, is this a joke, or is this the wrong URL? I've seen joke websites that look more professional. http://www.commodoreusa.net/home.html Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Photographer | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | My flickr Photostream | | http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |

On 1 Sep 2010 at 8:28, geoffrey oltmans wrote: I'm still waiting for the "new" Spectra 70. --Chuck

On Wed, 1 Sep 2010, Christian Liendo wrote: These direct links to engadget have never worked. It automatically redirects you to the home page. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!

On 1 September 2010 15:02, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> wrote: And here, too. -- Liam Proven ? Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508

Gene Buckle wrote: Are you sure you're getting the whole thing? That's the behavior I get if either there's a superfluous space in the URL or if I don't copy the whole URL including the slash at the end. Peace... Sridhar

In article <alpine.LFD.2.00.1009010748580.32709 at grumble.deltasoft.com>, Gene Buckle <geneb at deltasoft.com> writes: Install IE. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/> Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

In article <alpine.LFD.2.00.1009010634560.30141 at grumble.deltasoft.com>, Gene Buckle <geneb at deltasoft.com> writes: th-series-of-aros-deskto/ Works for me. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/> Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

At 6:55 PM -0400 9/6/10, Evan Koblentz wrote: Does that question surprise anyone? I've been asking myself the same thing since I first heard of them. The "Commodore USA" website is a joke. Most of the personal websites I look at are far more professional. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Photographer | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | My flickr Photostream | | http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |

On Friday 27 August 2010, alan canning wrote: I think that it has to do with "The Internets" and their phone having "the bigger geebees". I don't add an s to "email". If you don't get the reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg Pat -- Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org

On 8/2/2010 3:35 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: I do, and occasionally still use it. My #1 pet peeve is GIF. I've always pronounced the g as in graphics, because that's what it stands for. When I hear people pronounce it as "jif" like the peanut butter, it raises my hackles. In a spot of idiocy, Unisys's actual paper says you're supposed to pronounce it "jif" and that's just stupid. It's not a "jraphics interchange format" and yet they stick to that like peanut butter: http://www.olsenhome.com/gif/ So yes, I am calling the inventors of GIF complete idiots. -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/

Yes, I was told that too, which mwant I always called them 'Deck' if there ws a failed servoid in the room... -tony

On 3 Aug 2010 at 20:11, Chris Elmquist wrote: Always have said it "Ellie Dee". A good name for a female offspring. Her twin sister can be "Elsie Dee". --Chuck

On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 3:46 PM, Dennis Boone <drb at msu.edu> wrote: DEC is always "deck." NEC is *never* "neck." It's just the Way it Is.

Oh jeeez.... next thing, we're gonna starting have the Sysop argument: Its is pronounced 'sis' 'op' for System Operator or is it SY-SOP for SYstem Operator ;-) Alexandre Souza - Listas wrote:

On 8/2/10 6:42 PM, "Curt @ Atari Museum" <curt at atarimuseum.com> wrote: Nope, it's "Boff-H" :) -BOFH-

On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Gene Buckle wrote: Jason Ward (RIP) always pronounced it that way, and I could never break him of the habit. Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/

On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 8:15 PM, Gene Buckle <geneb at deltasoft.com> wrote: Does "Seye" rhyme with (American) "hay" or "eye" there? I admit I did come up saying Sysop (assonant with "eye-mop.") I know it's "Siss-op," I know. Sadly I haven't had cause to say it in years. -- jht

But of course, the Atari is way better!!! :oD (ok, I was kidding, but I never had a ST...I think this is the only mainstream computer I never had :( )

On 03/08/10 14:00, Gene Buckle wrote: Acorn for the win! :) -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/

On 01/09/10 14:28, Gene Buckle wrote: That's funny, my shrink says the same thing. You two would probably get on like a house on fire :) -- Phil. philpem at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/

On 8/2/2010 9:51 PM, Curt @ Atari Museum wrote: haha. I remember this one quite well. :) Never participated myself, of course. :) Keith

On 8/2/10 11:15 PM, Dan Roganti wrote: Insidious Blue Machines -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

FM - F'ing magic MFM - Modified F'ing magic The Prime engineers were fond of these. One of 'em always made sure to plug his soldering iron into the PDU in the bottom of the cabinet, because "you don't want any heat spikes, you know?" De