I have quite a few, just couldn't throw them out, they came with the systems. But they are a HUGE space taker. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" <spectre at floodgap.com> To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 9:33 PM Subject: the non-existence of printer collectors was Re: A sign of the times

Cameron Kaiser wrote: I second the part about LaserWriter. The only printers I accept in the house are Postscript because anything can talk to them. -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/

--snip--- Hi How about a 4si+ w/ duplex for $25. Just needs rollers. That is what I use now. I do have some collectables. I have a Centronics 603 that was relabled as an Intel printer ( painted blue ) I also have an early Epson printer made in the US that is a chain printer. I have a couple early fx80 compatable dot matrix printers and last a nice Brother daisy wheel w/ several special wheels Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail?-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx

Geez, you guys will whine about anything. :-) I look at the printer situation "on the other hand." On the other hand, at least on this end of the pond and its Interwebs, there are many places that will sell you parts for your N-year-old HP tank. (A quick Googling reveals 10-packs of rollers for $14.99 shipped from eBay, oodles of parts sellers, and handy combo forums/sellers like http://www.fixyourownprinter.com/search/center?q=hp+4000 , oh, and look at that, rubber roller rejuvenator at $10 a can, a FAQ here on CCC.) Maybe I'll change my mind a little if you can show me an HP printer part that you *can't* buy a replacement for (online). And if you do think there's some bit of unobtainium in old HPs, and the dead ones are going for 5 cents a pound in your burg, then rent a warehouse and buy a dumpster full of them, rip them apart and try to make a living selling the bits. You're complaining that a roller kit costs ~$20 shipped? Everything small costs $20 shipped. Be glad that these parts are easily available, as opposed to many other parts of this hobby /career that are actually rare. A few months ago, a Dell rep called trying to sell me new (not refurb) Dell desktop laser printers at $70 each. I passed. They probably have better quality than my 15-y-o HP 4m, and they're not networked, PostScript, or Mac compatible. Yes, there's a place for 1200 and 600 DPI as opposed to 300 DPI. There's an old color HP 5 under the table, too, and a boxful of surplus toner bottles that'll feed it for years, which I picked up all for a song. I use it for jobs that need a sprinkle of color but not high quality. HP's business model now is about selling consumables, not making printers that last 15+ years. As Bob says, "You'll pay to get what you really want". - John

On Sat, 2008-01-26 at 22:13 +0000, Tony Duell wrote: I'm guessing that the rungs of the ladder go between teeth on the pulleys, and the rails of the ladder keep the belt in place? In which case, I'd get the closest matching toothed belt I could find and fit little metal end cheeks on the pulleys to stop it sliding sideways. If you were tight for space, you could probably get away with only one pulley. Gordon

Tony Duell wrote: Interesting - I don't think I've seen a belt like that (at least not where the "non-rung" parts are open). I've seen ones with 'guide rails' in flatbed scanners and the like, of course, but not with actual gaps between the belt's teeth (which I think is what's implied here) I wonder if anyone's ever managed to make rubber widgets in the home workshop? I don't mean things like repairing tape drive wheels using heatshrink tubing, but actually making the bits from scratch using some form of solution / heat / drying / vulcanising process. Probably a horrible trial-and-error experience, and maybe impossible, but I've not come across anyone who's even attempted it... (I did try, at age 9 or so, making my own toy car tires by using a clay mould and attempting to melt down other old toy car tires. The result, as I recall, was a big mess) cheers Jules

Hi Bob Instead of using a rubber one, measure the diameter and turn one with some hardwood or aluminum. You'll get a nice concentric one this way. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts!?Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan

As I've said I've never actually seen the printer, and the scans of the service manual are not all that clear, but I believe it _does_ have holes in it between the 'rungs'. It's not a normal toothed timing belt. There are 2-pack compounds that cure to form elastomers. The one I've heard of, but never used, is called Devcon 90. You mix the 2 parts, pour it into the mould, and leave it overnight. Once mixed, you have 30 minutes or so to use it. The problem is that you're supposed to mix and use the entire pack in one go, and the pack costs about \pounds 30.00. You also need a mould release agent and a primer (if you want the ruber to stick to anything, say you want a make a wheel on a metalhub). This gets expensive fast. I am told, though, you can mix part-packs (stir it well, and wieght out part of it), but once opened the shelf life of the _unmixed_ stuff is only a couple of months ar most. Mind you, I don't fancy tring to make a mould for this ladder belt. -tony

At 10:19 AM +0000 1/26/08, Stroller wrote: I'm responsible for the Unix Printing and Plotting at work, so I know the problem. We had this with either a 4100n or a 4200n that a lab was running cardstock through. What I see die a *LOT* and what can't be cheap to replace are the blasted NIC's for the various types of HP hardware. If I have a dead piece of HP printing/plotting, that's a good first bet. I should see what these go for in the US... I'd like to upgrade my 5mp to something with built in ethernet and a duplexer. HP dropped support on a *LOT* of plotters in 2006, they did this without any warning. In fact I'd placed a service call on one and had them out *after* the drop date, without anyone saying anything to me. I'm responsible for a lot of plotters, HP wants us to replace almost all of them and refuses to work on them. IDIOTS! As a result I found a third party repair outfit that responds faster to any problems I have and costs less than 1/3 what HP was charging. I've done a good job of convincing management so far that HP can go to H***, and that we're not buying the exact same plotter just to be "supported" by HP. Still at least HP can provide me with usable plotter paper, unlike a certain company.... And before anyone asks why I'm not repairing these things on my own, I did in the past, but I no longer have time. Printing and plotting isn't my real job, and my real job keeps me way to busy these days. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

On Jan 26, 2008, at 8:13 AM, Alexandre Souza wrote: A brand new one is super-cheap, but newer HP printers are absolute garbage. That LJ4+ will last practically forever. If you can find a junker to keep around as a source for parts, you'll be able to keep it running indefinitely. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

On Sat, 2008-01-26 at 21:36 -0300, Alexandre Souza wrote: If that gear is something that breaks fairly often, make sure you keep a good one aside. There are companies who will mould up small plastic parts for a suitable fee, given one good example. We've been talking about this on one of the classic car lists I'm on, to fix a problem where little gears in the speedometer drive splitter strip their teeth and leave you with twitchy steering. Gordon

Just for one thing: They works. If my HP4+ works flawlessly, why should I buy a new printer? Toner is so cheap! :oO

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008, woodelf wrote: Speaking of which, . . . my sister needs a 400K/800K Macintosh ("Classic") floppy with drivers for HP Deskwriter. Can anyone help? Sorry, that is all of the information that I have so far. I'll try to talk her through getting the model numbers.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008, Teo Zenios wrote: Thank you, I appreciate the willingness to help. The current problem is a bit embarrassing - I can download the software, but right now I don't have access to anything that can write 400K/800K Mac disks! . . . and HP no longer sells those files on diskette. So, once I can get enough information to narrow down exactly which files, I'll just need local access to an early enough Mac, or work by snail mail with somebody competent to write them. (talking my sister through connecting her Mac to the net or transferring files is not feasable.) Thanks

While I would agree there are applications for which a printer is essential, there are equally things you can do with a (classic) computer that do not need hard copy output. Well, if I want to print from one of my old HP machines I'd better have an HPIB printer (convincing soem of them to sue a different interface is an 'entertainmant'. If I want to print out a program listing from my 9830, I'd better make sure the 9866 is working properly, and so on. Whereas my TRS-80s can print on just about any Centronics-interfaced printer. Err, what's wrong with a dedciated printer with it's own Omnibus, Unius (or even Qus) card? -tony

Sorry for the delayed response. I collect CBM printers. I would assume there is less interest in collecting printers, since we didn't get all teary eyed at the first printout, etc. But, I have a CBM 1526/MP802 here I would never part with, mainly because I did get all teary-eyed over it. Well, let me explain: When the Commodore VIC-20 and C64 came out, your choices were the VIC 1515 (through some micommunication with EPSON or SEIKO or whomever made it, it was a 7.5" wide paper printer. Someone thought 8.5" meant the entire width of the paper, including sprocket holes) and the VIC 1525, which were both 7 bit printers without true descenders. For my part, I had a Gorilla Banana, which was the same mech and case as a VIC1525, but with Centronics port. I think both were a SEIKOSHA GP-100. I wanted to upgrade to an 8 pin printer, but I detested the issues of using a Centronics printer with the CBM, so I wanted a CBM model. I bought a MPS802 (same as 1526) printer, and I was happy for a while. Then came GEOS, and I decided to print out a paper with it. Then is when I realized the 1526/MPS802 has no graphics mode. Yes, a dot matrix printer of early '80s vintage with no graphics mode. However, it did have 1 redefinable character and you could define it once per line. Someone wrote a device driver for GEOS that made printing work, at great cost. To print graphics, one must redefine the 8x8 char, print it, do a CR without LF, redefine it, tab over, print, repeat 80 times. I wanted to return it, but it was too late, and I did not have funds to replace it. I was teary eyed watching my final term paper in 1989 slowly emerge from the MPS802, one agonizing character after another. You got in the habit of printing your papers in 1 page increments so you could oil and rest the printer in between. Luckily the mech was smart enough not to return to home after each CR, it just stayed in the same place. I should have done a better job researching, as the MPS802/1526 was just a CBM 4023 printer with the IEEE board swapped out for a IEC-based one. It has the same issues.

On Jan 28, 2008, at 6:15 PM, woodelf wrote: Fortunately that kind of crap seems to be on the wane. Good thing, too...I've got better things for my CPUs to be doing than rasterizing for crappy printers and doing DSP for crappy modems. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL