19 Nov
2006
19 Nov
'06
10:29 p.m.
Should people just list the reserved price as the start price? I see
auctions with reserved price often get 0 bid. This is something I don't
understand. In what situation would this thing be useful?
(I saw the vax 4000 100 auction and got this question)
vax, 9000
19 Nov
19 Nov
10:48 p.m.
9000 VAX wrote:
Should people just list the reserved price as the
start price? I see
auctions with reserved price often get 0 bid. This is something I don't
understand. In what situation would this thing be useful?
(I saw the vax 4000 100 auction and got this question)
Yes. Don't bother with a reserve price. I make it a personal policy
not to bid on reserve auctions that haven't yet met reserve. It's
usually too much of a PITA.
Peace... Sridhar
20 Nov
20 Nov
12:34 a.m.
On 19 Nov 2006 at 22:29, 9000 VAX wrote:
Should people just list the reserved price as the
start price? I see
auctions with reserved price often get 0 bid. This is something I don't
understand. In what situation would this thing be useful?
Like my momma always said, "It never hurts to ask". Many sellers
(myself included) will readily divulge the reserve price if asked.
AFAIK, it's not against eBay rules.
Cheers,
Chuck
12:35 a.m.
From: "9000 VAX" <vax9000 at
gmail.com>
Should people just list the reserved price as the start price? I see
auctions with reserved price often get 0 bid. This is something I don't
understand. In what situation would this thing be useful?
(I saw the vax 4000 100 auction and got this question)
vax, 9000
Hi
Some people want to price an item ( see what people are
willing to pay ). Some people have another buyer that will
meet that price. Some believe they have a valuable item.
I rarely bid on a reserve item unless I really want it.
Sellers often miss the fact that if they start the auction at
a lower price, they get several people interested in the item.
These people will often start bidding against each other.
With a reserve, many will quite early, even if they are only
a few dollors away from the reserve. They just get frustrated.
Sellers also should not start there titles with things like
"vintage" or "rare". The people that will most likely pay a
good price already know how rare an item is and what they
should bid for it. Those two adjectives rarely cause a bidder
to bid higher and often even cause the knowledgeable bidder
to miss seeing the auction ( not good for the seller ).
Many have a lot to scan and wasted words, like these that
are commonly used, just hide the actual item. It is hard enough
to scan hunderds of items without all the noise. I doubt anyone
bids on an iten because someone said it was rare.
I recently picked up a Olivetti M20 for less then $130, including
shipping because it was poorly advertised. If the seller had stated
that it was a Z8000 machine he may have gotten better response.
It just looked like any other PC of that age. As I recall, the
title started with something like "vintage". I'd have not seen
it if it wasn't for the fact that I was doing searches for
Olivetti's.
Dwight
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1:59 a.m.
You are not thinking like a successful seller. Some comments...
Sellers often miss the fact that if they start the
auction at
a lower price, they get several people interested in the item.
These people will often start bidding against each other.
There are plenty of times, especially with something that is either
really obscure (low demand due to not many potential buyers) or fairly
common (commodity items) when starting an auction too low ends up in
failure. Sure, two people can get into a bidding war, but often the
bidding war is just a bunch of smoke if one or more of the players are
bottom feeders. There are plenty of bottom feeders at any auction,
live or online.
With a reserve, many will quite early, even if they
are only
a few dollors away from the reserve.
When reserves are not met, no harm done to the seller. A reserve makes
a lot of sense when an item does have a market, and it is known that
there are people willing to pay a good price, but are not always in
the market. If the seller can stand having things not reach auction,
but eventually will at a good price - all the better. It is something
that many people have to learn when selling - that a string of
failures will often end up all the better.
They just get frustrated.
But the item sticks in their minds. Collectors tend to forget about
many human emotions when the desire to have something overtakes the
rest. Often the frustration dies out, and a seller starts to lust for
the thing that caused all the problems in the first place. When it
comes to higher ticket items, it is often wise to set a high reserve,
expecting it not to get hit, just to let people know the item is in
the market. This will give many more sellers time to scrape money
together for the more realistic sale.
Sellers also should not start there titles with things
like
"vintage" or "rare". The people that will most likely pay a
good price already know how rare an item is and what they
should bid for it.
Some of these words make sense (not the variations on LOOK - this I do
not understand). Sure, all the jaded Ebay buyers ignore or filter out
such words, but the new potential buyers often do not. Capturing the
attention to these new buyers, often people just getting into
collecting, is very important for the long term health of a seller.
They often become very loyal customers.
I doubt anyone
bids on an iten because someone said it was rare.
People do indeed search for some of these common words if they are new
to Ebay or a specific field of collecting.
There is a point to many of the apparently wasteful or silly things
that Ebay sellers do. Those things get positive results. If the
results were insignificant or negative, then experienced sellers would
not do them.
--
Will
10:17 a.m.
From: "William Donzelli" <wdonzelli at
gmail.com>
---snip---
People do indeed search for some of these common words if they are new
to Ebay or a specific field of collecting.
There is a point to many of the apparently wasteful or silly things
that Ebay sellers do. Those things get positive results. If the
results were insignificant or negative, then experienced sellers would
not do them.
Hi
How does the seller know that if he could have had 15 bidders vrs 3 bidders.
There is no feedback that the seller might be aware of. I find it difficult
to
believe that even an inexperienced buyer would be looking for the words
vintage when thousands of these will come up. One might put such into
there text but in the title line it is just waste valuable text space.
This might be useful if there were only one or two others, making this
title page unique but not when they are on every item.
As for reserves, you are right that the right buyer may not be looking at
the
time. That is why they have starting prices. A seller that is really
intending to
sell an item might start the price at about 75% of the expected price.
That way, if he only gets one bottom feeder, no big loss. Other wise,
he has captured several people that do know what the item is worth.
It is just like fishing, using too big of a hook catches no fish and not
using enough bate attracts few fish.( Sorry about the comparision of
buyer to fish ).
Dwight
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11:08 a.m.
How does the seller know that if he could have had 15
bidders vrs 3 bidders.
There is no feedback that the seller might be aware of.
Experience. Knowing the market. Once a seller gets to know the usual
bunch of buyers, more things become apparent thru the talk in the
gravevine. The dealers have ears.
I find it difficult
to
believe that even an inexperienced buyer would be looking for the words
vintage when thousands of these will come up.
If an inexperience buyer were to first search for "Computer", think of
all the hits then. Or even "Apple" (popular amongst the newer
collectors). It is obvious in these cases that some of those useless
words start to become useful. Beginners just getting into a field tend
not to look for specific items, but do blanket searches.
As for reserves, you are right that the right buyer
may not be looking at
the
time. That is why they have starting prices. A seller that is really
intending to
sell an item might start the price at about 75% of the expected price.
This does not work well. Starting bids that are too high attract very
few bids, because buyers in general want a bargain (especially the
dealers). This is true for the live auction scene as well. Auctioneers
will always start out high, but nearly always quickly dip down to
something far below market value. They know that they can not expect
much action if the starting bid is true market value. Ebay has no easy
way to lower starting bid places like this, so it only makes sense to
start reasonably low.
There are, of course, sellers that always start very high, and expect
to have many lots that do not sell. This takes nerves of steel, as the
income stream tends to be very erratic. It works well if the seller
can afford to have many bad weeks.
It is just like fishing, using too big of a hook
catches no fish and not
using enough bate attracts few fish.( Sorry about the comparision of
buyer to fish ).
There are plenty of big fish that come along that can take the hook.
--
Will
10:24 a.m.
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, William Donzelli wrote:
After awhile though, the seller should get tired of paying the listing and
reserve fees if the item isn't selling :)
...or the buyer will move on to the next one, possibly paying more for one
that doesn't have a reserve. I've seen it go down both ways.
I tend to filter and exclude some of the silly keywords myself as I find
the majority of those listings are generally not worth my time. I'd say 9
times our of 10 or better, the seller is just trying to hype something up
for various reasons.
I've experimented with different techniques over the years myself. For
some items, the title in all caps does get more attention. For others, it
just annoys bidders. Offering free shipping can also help sell items,
especially the small stuff that can go USPS.
-Toth
There are plenty of times, especially with something
that is either
really obscure (low demand due to not many potential buyers) or fairly
common (commodity items) when starting an auction too low ends up in
failure. Sure, two people can get into a bidding war, but often the
bidding war is just a bunch of smoke if one or more of the players are
bottom feeders. There are plenty of bottom feeders at any auction, live
or online.
True. This is why I tend to prefer a realistic starting bid for my items.
Take the M100 cables I made. They cost me about $12 to make, just in
parts. I started one at $15, so even if it sells for the starting amount,
I'm not going to be at a loss, even after eBay and Paypal both deduct
their fees. Now that doesn't really cover the labor, and the tools to make
it were also expensive (I can't afford cheap tools...), but in this
*particular* case, I'm just making them as a hobby and as a service to
other M100 owners. (And on that note, if anyone on the list needs a longer
cable or a different ribbon cable made, drop me an email.)
With a
reserve, many will quite early, even if they are only a few
dollors away from the reserve.
When reserves are not met, no harm done to the seller. A reserve makes a
lot of sense when an item does have a market, and it is known that there
are people willing to pay a good price, but are not always in the
market. If the seller can stand having things not reach auction, but
eventually will at a good price - all the better. It is something that
many people have to learn when selling - that a string of failures will
often end up all the better. They just get
frustrated.
But the item sticks in their minds. Collectors tend to forget about many
human emotions when the desire to have something overtakes the rest.
Often the frustration dies out, and a seller starts to lust for the
thing that caused all the problems in the first place. When it comes to
higher ticket items, it is often wise to set a high reserve, expecting
it not to get hit, just to let people know the item is in the market.
This will give many more sellers time to scrape money together for the
more realistic sale. Sellers also
should not start there titles with things like "vintage"
or "rare". The people that will most likely pay a good price already
know how rare an item is and what they should bid for it.
Some of these words make sense (not the variations on LOOK - this I do
not understand). Sure, all the jaded Ebay buyers ignore or filter out
such words, but the new potential buyers often do not. Capturing the
attention to these new buyers, often people just getting into
collecting, is very important for the long term health of a seller. They
often become very loyal customers. I doubt anyone
bids on an iten because someone said it was rare.
People do indeed search for some of these common words if they are new
to Ebay or a specific field of collecting.
There is a point to many of the apparently wasteful or silly things that
Ebay sellers do. Those things get positive results. If the results were
insignificant or negative, then experienced sellers would not do them.
11:41 a.m.
After awhile though, the seller should get tired of
paying the listing and
reserve fees if the item isn't selling :)
Cost of business. So what if you wasted fifty dollars on dud auctions
if you realize one hundred dollars more than market value.
...or the buyer will move on to the next one, possibly
paying more for one
that doesn't have a reserve. I've seen it go down both ways.
Yes, but often it is a long time between the next one. This is why
reserve auctions are geared towards rarer or higher ticket items.
--
Will
5:16 p.m.
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, William Donzelli wrote:
Or the item that sells regularly for $500 that cost $5? ;)
Why start it too low and sell it for $150 when the market will without a
doubt bear $500? That's why I'm a fan of setting reasonable prices for
starting bids instead of using a hidden reserve.
I don't think the discussion was specifically about "rare" items though.
Lots and lots of sellers are using reserves on common and downright cheap
items thinking they are worth a lot more than they are.
A lot of the stuff I deal with I consider commodity stuff, though some
buyers consider it rare. Its all a matter of perspective. I bought out the
entire inventory of TRS-80 cassette and 4-pin serial cables when all the
Radio Shack stores in Houston sent them to the outlet store in the late
80s. You'd be hard pressed to find them NOS now, but even after giving so
many away over the years, I'm still sitting on quite a few (though at the
current rate they sell, I'll probably run out sometime early this next
year). Does that make them rare?
-Toth
After awhile
though, the seller should get tired of paying the listing
and reserve fees if the item isn't selling :)
Cost of business. So what if you wasted fifty dollars on dud auctions if
you realize one hundred dollars more than market value. ...or the
buyer will move on to the next one, possibly paying more for
one that doesn't have a reserve. I've seen it go down both ways.
Yes, but often it is a long time between the next one. This is why
reserve auctions are geared towards rarer or higher ticket items. 
5:59 p.m.
In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.0611201602530.902 at host10.invalid.domain>,
Tothwolf <tothwolf at concentric.net> writes:
[...] I'm still sitting on quite a few (though at
the
current rate they sell, I'll probably run out sometime early this next
year). Does that make them rare?
Not until you run out :-)
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
10:06 a.m.
On Sun, 19 Nov 2006, dwight elvey wrote:
Some people want to price an item ( see what people
are willing to pay
). Some people have another buyer that will meet that price. Some
believe they have a valuable item.
With as picky and jaded as many buyers have gotten over time, I honestly
don't see how a seller would think they'd get a fair market evaluation
with a reserve price. You are far better off just watching the market for
several months.
I rarely bid on a reserve item unless I really want
it. Sellers often
miss the fact that if they start the auction at a lower price, they get
several people interested in the item. These people will often start
bidding against each other. With a reserve, many will quite early, even
if they are only a few dollors away from the reserve. They just get
frustrated.
From the selling side, its a gamble. Sometimes those
items won't go high,
sometimes they will. For some of the tooling I use, I
monitor and
sometimes buy the stuff that is going for far too little. Often I keep the
item for my own use, but sometimes I'll resell it later, it just depends
on if its something I really need or not. Heck, a good photo and well
written listing can make a huge difference in the selling price of an
item. Professional buyers are also pretty good at spotting a copy and
paste listings.
Sellers also should not start there titles with things
like "vintage" or
"rare". The people that will most likely pay a good price already know
how rare an item is and what they should bid for it. Those two
adjectives rarely cause a bidder to bid higher and often even cause the
knowledgeable bidder to miss seeing the auction ( not good for the
seller ). Many have a lot to scan and wasted words, like these that are
commonly used, just hide the actual item. It is hard enough to scan
hunderds of items without all the noise. I doubt anyone bids on an iten
because someone said it was rare.
As both a buyer and seller, things like 'rare' and 'LQQK' really get on my
nerves. With the listings I create, I usually have a hard time not going
over the character limit (55 currently) as it is when I'm using *good*
keywords. I dunno why sellers waste all those characters for words that
won't really help sell something.
I recently picked up a Olivetti M20 for less then
$130, including
shipping because it was poorly advertised. If the seller had stated that
it was a Z8000 machine he may have gotten better response. It just
looked like any other PC of that age. As I recall, the title started
with something like "vintage". I'd have not seen it if it wasn't for
the
fact that I was doing searches for Olivetti's.
Yikes...most of that must have been the shipping too, as those things
aren't exactly lightweight :)
-Toth
9:53 a.m.
On Sun, 19 Nov 2006, 9000 VAX wrote:
Should people just list the reserved price as the
start price? I see
auctions with reserved price often get 0 bid. This is something I don't
understand. In what situation would this thing be useful?
(I saw the vax 4000 100 auction and got this question)
As a buyer, I tend to pass over most reserve listings unless I happen to
know what the reserve is and its not more than I'm willing to pay.
For most of the items I sell, I don't bother with a reserve. For the
smaller, less expensive items, I start them at a price I can live with (be
it my cost or a little less than what I've sold them for in the past etc).
For the more expensive items, I generally set a realistic about for the
starting bid. I've gotten a few snide messages from people who thought my
price was too high (especially on some of the high end tooling I've sold
off), but when I've already been selling identical, brand new units at
that price, why would I sell them for less? If they don't like it, they
can always buy elsewhere at retail prices :)
-Toth
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