----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" <spectre at floodgap.com> To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 10:27 PM Subject: Re: C64/C128 CP/M Cartridge Interest? Well CP/M even on the 128 suffered from slow hardware designs. I guess if you want to make a whole (RAM included) CP/M cart it would be better then what is out there now. Would the cart have to be paired with a 1571 to read other CP/M disks?

Or use the C64 as a terminal :)

THAT is such a great idea! ;oD I'm doing something in these molds, but still too in early state to talk. Tip: What about rebuild a TRS-80 computer and run CPM on that? My keyboardbobulator can be the ps2-to-trs interface, and the output circuit can be modified to drive a vga monitor or LCD.

On Fri, 24 Dec 2010, Dave McGuire wrote: Unfortunately, nobody is kitting them. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

On 24 Dec 2010 at 17:44, Dave McGuire wrote: Well, if you want to run a "loaded" system, there's always this: http://www.ez80sbc.com/ --Chuck

On Dec 24, 2010, at 1:26 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: Also don't forget P112.

On Dec 25, 2010, at 9:05 AM, Dave McGuire wrote: Um.. you do realize I'm one of the two people who sells the P112 kits. We tried to take orders for a production run, but didn't have enough takers this time around to fund a run. We do have a small number of kits available, however at the moment I don't know how many of them are spoken for. Contact Dave Griffith (he's on this list, or at his website at frotz.homeunix.org/p112) if you're interested. Also, as I stated a couple of months back, there are blank boards and a very limited number of the surface-mount components available direct from me (http://p112.feedle.net/). I haven't been able to follow this thread quite like I would have hoped: but, it's worth noting that if people are interested in a basic CP/M design the P112 is about as basic as one can get, and is about as "open" of a design as one can get. The challenge that we have right now is that the FDC chip is an obsolete part, and I don't think there's a drop-in replacement. It might be easier to see if the existing P112 design can be worked into a different controller, or if a custom (preferably 'open source' licensed) new part can be engineered. It's a bit out of my expertise, but I think I can safely speak for Dave and say that any work towards a drop-in replacement with minimal re-engineering of either the board or the ZSystem software would probably be warmly welcomed...

On 12/24/2010 1:34 PM, Eric Smith wrote: Well, as noted in my previous email: * The ability to design a unit that could not only function as an add-on for the CBM line, but also function as a standalone unit. I don't want to leave off the Commodore interface, but I wasn't thinking it would be that intrusive. In my mind, Commodore compatibility would only require the inclusion of the CBM expansion port (from an external point of view). The CPLD/FPGA that would handle gluing things together would be there regardless of standalone or tethered, and the ROM would be there anyway to hold a standalone BDOS (I think that's the name). That's why I suggested a dual purpose board. I thought a USB connector would handle external interfacing well (external drive, RS232 connection for terminal, or KB and maybe there's a USB video option, dunno). Since a CBM cartridge is 3" by 2.5", I thought non CBM folks on this list might be interested in a 6 sq in CP/M machine, and the 22/44 pin connector on the edge of the board could be repurposed as a interface of sorts, or I could possibly put a .050" pitch 50/100 connector on the other end of the board, for a true S100 bus interface, though that's a bit above my knowledge level at this time. Jim -- Jim Brain, Brain Innovations brain at jbrain.com www.jbrain.com www.jbrain.net (eStore)

On 12/24/2010 3:50 PM, Alexandre Souza - Listas wrote: A couple of reasons: * N8VEM, while a great solution, is enormous. There are many closet C128 CP/M users, and they'd never go for such a huge addition to their setup. A cartridge form factor, easy decision. Others would scoff at relegating their C128 as a dumb terminal to another machine (for instance, they could easily do the same thing by running a CP/M emu on their PC and connecting the C128 to the PC via a null modem cable). It's perception. * There is more to a C128 CP/M cartridge than just using the C128 as a dumb terminal. Some C128 CP/M apps might take advantage of the functions in the C128 itself, like the 40 column screen and such. Thus, memory mirroring and such would be useful. I didn't bring it up initially, because A) not sure if apps did that. B) I just wanted to start small, and thought that interfacing the Z80 to the CBM bus would be a good start * I theorized that a tiny CP/M board might be of use where N8VEM was too big or too expansive. * I so want to start learning Verilog. I thought, if I got a basic environment going, I could then take a look at virtualizing the pieces to an FPGA connected to the C128/C64. But, since I know little of Z80 and CP/M (having used it long ago), I thought going to FPGAs from nothing was too large a leap. * The next step after that is an accelerated CP/M. This plays in with my hope to obtain the rights to the SuperCPU for the C64/C128. It lacked accelerated Z80/CP/M compatibility, which I thought I could add, though maybe not. I'm gathering from the results that there might not be the interest I had theorized, which is fine. But, I thought I'd at least ask. Jim -- Jim Brain, Brain Innovations brain at jbrain.com www.jbrain.com www.jbrain.net (eStore)

On 12/25/2010 8:23 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: Yep, that's why I am approaching it as I am. I thought bringing up a standalone Z80 CP/M environment would show me the required portions of the CP/M system, and it would give me a baseline for an FPGA-based solution (or at least prove to me that an FPGA-based solution is not vaible) I have already purchased a Digilent board with an XC3S1200, the next to largest Spartan 3E in production. If the design can fit on 1 or 2 of those units (or the 1600s), I can make the system viable at a reasonable cost. I am in the process of obtaining the necessary rights to the SuperCPU design from the initial developer, but the actual design is no longer cost effective. It would need to be virtualized into FPGA to be viable. So, there is a method to my madness, but it's a long road. -- Jim Brain, Brain Innovations brain at jbrain.com www.jbrain.com www.jbrain.net (eStore)

On 2010-12-26 20:24, Jim Brain wrote: A complete z80 SOC (with uarts/sd-flash card, video) occupies less the 50% of the xc1200. So you are good to go ...

On 12/23/2010 8:15 PM, Teo Zenios wrote: Having been involved with Commodore computers for many years, I not only own both the C64 CP/M cart but also both the CP/M capable C128 and it's brother, the C128D. Providing more detail to my original request: The Commodore 64 CP/M cart is woefully designed, and only works on the earliest revisions of the C64. It is a clone of the Apple-II CP/M cart, done hastily and incorrectly. The C128 CP/M support is robust, but slow. Due to the nature of the design, the Z80 in the C128 runs at 2MHz (4MHz cycle, but every other cycle is stretched for 3 cycles). As such, I would like to investigate the ability to design a newer CP/M cartridge that will work with both the C64 and the C128, runs much faster than either the CP/M cartridge of the internal Z80. It could be simply an exercise in academics, but I thought I would at least inquire if others had any interest. The items I feel are interesting about such a design: * The ability to use the C64/C128 as a second processor to handle IO. * The ability to tri-state the Z80 and stop the clock, to allow the 64/128 to process a "message" created by the Z80 environment. This would provide valuable information on how to interface a second processor to the C64 bus. * The ability to design a unit that could not only function as an add-on for the CBM line, but also function as a standalone unit. Jim -- Jim Brain, Brain Innovations brain at jbrain.com www.jbrain.com www.jbrain.net (eStore)

I remember someone on the list saying they needed an Alpha Micro. There is a nice looking unit up on Ebay, located in California for $125... great looking system... Curt

Sorry... thought it might help, still a damned nice machine... I did some work here and there on some AM's back in the 80's and 90's and they were all the smaller Altair/Imsai sized units, never seen one that big before, cool machine and the price is pretty darned good... Cameron Kaiser wrote:

Oops, I forgot to boot it back up before I left to visit the folks. Well, it'll be up after Christmas. *sheepish* -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Chaos reigns within/Reflect, repent and reboot;/Order shall return. --------

*tips hat* AMOS is still a pretty robust operating system. It just sits there and purrs. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- "Eight tries. The number is ... seven." ------------------------------------