----- Original Message ----- From: "Sridhar Ayengar" <ploopster at gmail.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Cc: "Johnny Billquist" <bqt at softjar.se> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 11:28 PM Subject: Re: Terminals... How well would a VT525 work with a MicroVAX 3100 series model 80? The local scrapper has about 8 of that model terminal and a pile of DEC keyboards (mostly ps2 type ends, a couple with what looks like a 4 pin mini phone jack). The guy in charge at the time needed to talk to the owner about price (meaning he will try to ream me on one after he looks it up on ebay). I did get 2 sets of MJJ cables (one ends in what looks like a 9 pin serial port adapter, the other looks like it ends in a ethernet cable adapter) and 2 DEC terminal keyboards (ps2 end). I guess I can rig up a laptop to be a terminal with the cables I have, or hope he lets the VT525's go cheap (what is a fair price for one anyway?).

On 8/20/10, Teo Zenios <teoz at neo.rr.com> wrote: Just fine. Those would likely be LK201s (with the 4-pin handset jack) or perhaps a newer variant, and some variety of LK401s. From time to time, I have use of pretty much any variety. The real LK201s first shipped in the early 1980s with VT220s and contemporary gear and are somewhat wider than PC keyboards. Newer keyboards tend to look more like PC keyboards with a key or two that looks odd ("Do", etc). A quick check shows a wide variety of BIN OBO pricing, but the real question is what are they *selling* for. I don't have a good feel for the present prices for terminal gear, but the base VT525 isn't saddled with a CRT and is newish kit, so a partial answer is "more than some terminals, less than others". Recently, for example, I've had several genuine VT220s w/LK201 keyboards pass nearby, but I couldn't drum up enough interest for free or nearly free units (plus shipping, of course). I get a VT220 or three per year offered to me. VT320s less often (though I did get a couple this year) and VT4xx less often. VT525s, though, seem to still attract commercial interest. I personally wouldn't spend $100 on one, but I have plenty of dumb terminals to pull off the shelf, so I don't _need_ one. I wouldn't mind having one to play with, but it would have to be free/cost of dinner to entice me. If you don't have another terminal or you don't have an affinity for a particular model (my first terminals were the VT52, VT10x, and VT220, for example) then you might be more motivated to pony up a few bucks. -ethan

On Fri, 20 Aug 2010, Richard wrote: I wonder if he's related to the guy with the $35,000 Kaypro or the guy with the $400 486 motherboard... g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!

On Fri, 20 Aug 2010, Richard wrote: Ahh. I wasn't aware of that "segment". I figured they were just greedy f*cks the fed on the gullible. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!

On Fri, 20 Aug 2010, Richard wrote: There's a big difference between commerical need (and typically the pockets to pay for it) and mugging some poor schmuck that just wants to relive his childhood or the "good old days". g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!

It's really not that surprising considering they're the high-tech version of the knuckle-dragging, beer swilling ass-hats that populate the low-tech scrap industry. I've personally witnessed machines being fed to a shredder for scrap value because the stupid shit couldn't get someone to pay the outrageos(sp) price he wanted for the machine. (uVAX II, wanted $4k in 2005) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!

On 8/21/10 3:18 PM, William Donzelli wrote: From what I've seen, many are quite a bit of both. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

On Sat, 21 Aug 2010, William Donzelli wrote: They're stupid because they _are_ spiteful. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!

In article <AANLkTikvaf=wxKYX+SyFRPORBDC3_tOF-_JD1Tjj6Jqg at mail.gmail.com>, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> writes: As a capitalist, I'm just saying I don't understand their business model. I'm willing to pay more than scrap, but they shut me out because I won't pay corporate critical replacement prices on things that they aren't selling anyway. (I watch their closed listings on ebay, they get stuff that they relist over and over and over and never sell at the prices they are asking. Wouldn't they rather sell it than sit on it? Apparently not.) -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/> Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

Will wrote: This morning's "Peanuts" comic strip brought to light the difference in mindset between collectors and those not so inclined: http://comics.com/peanuts/2010-08-22/ --Chuck (Well, *I* thought it was funny!)

On 8/23/10 1:21 PM, Dan Williams wrote: ...thus illustrating the uneducated public's widespread notion that, since technology tends to shrink with development, and laptops are smaller than most other types of computers, that laptops are the "new" computers, and anything other than a laptop is obsolete. I don't even know what to say at this point. Each time I see an example of incredible stupidity in our society I think "wow, it can't get any worse than that"...then someone steps up to prove me wrong. Congrats on your 4100, by the way. I ran quite a few of those at work for a long time; they're great machines when configured with higher-end processors. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 3:30 PM Subject: Re: Terminals... People get sold on the extra functionality of laptops like portability and less space. Which is funny because any desktop system can be installed under a desk and LCD monitors do not take up that much space plus some people never take their expensive laptops off the desk they use them on. The laptop craze has almost killed resale values for desktops (which I don't mind at all).

They often do not give a shit because they are really sick and tired of getting lowballed by collectors, or getting their names dragged through the mud. More than a few scrappers have actually taken a loss on something, just to piss off collectors that throw around nickels like they were manhole covers. For example, there is a guy near me that buried a bunch of high end communication receivers (military R-390s) on his property, because he received one too many lowball offers. -- Will

In article <AANLkTim=zZE5XsF0TbqMYxJ0x+8sLgB8uoD4PpATX6dh at mail.gmail.com>, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> writes: As a capitalist I'm OK with asking them their price. Generally their prices put me out of the market, however. I am willing to pay more than scrap value, but I can't afford critical-replacement-part prices. I have no problem with them making a profit from me, but its not a critical piece of my business that I'm purchasing, it is for my collection. I try to cultivate a working relationship with anyone who I think can help me with my goals. That includes scrappers or other vendors. They don't seem interested in cultivating a relationship however, including dealers that are in Salt Lake City (but don't have a public storefront, so I can't visit them in person, I can only network by phone and email). My point is that I'm more profit than scrap, I'm not an asshole, but I am less profit than the critical replacement part customer. I'm willing to wait until there are no more critical replacement customers. I'm willing to trade things I have in excess that are more valuable in the critical-replacement-part market than what I would like to trade from their inventory. When I am talking to a dealer, I offer what I think is a fair value based on my observations of sales on ebay and other outlets. When they ask 10x what people are routinely paying on ebay, I can only conclude that they're looking to gouge me or aren't paying attention to the market. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/> Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

The best things you can do to cultivate a *positive* relationship are: 1) do not act superior 2) bring him business -- Will

Very smart from him. I believe he loves burning money.

On 8/22/10 9:52 AM, dwight elvey wrote: Mmm, just mentioning RACAL reminds me of (what was) my RA6790/GM. Sadly I had to sell it to pay the mortgage a couple of years ago, plus I felt kinda guilty having such a great receiver but not having much time to use it. Its CPU is a Mostek F8 as I recall, at least on the earlier ones (and mine). -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

Yep, that's the one. When tuning the 115MHz IF ( forget the exact freq ), you can't use an insulated tuning wound without breaking it. So one resorts to a metal one. This is fine until one reaches the last one connected to the plate. Then if your stupid enough to have your elbow on the chasis and hand guiding the screwdriver into the hole, you get zapped. The only excuse I have is that it was the middle of the night. Dwight

On 8/20/10, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote: I haven't used one personally, but that's my understanding. $40-$50 (+shipping) sounds like a decent price to me, but I haven't been shopping around for new terminals (I don't really need color, and I have plenty of DEC mono dumb terminals). -ethan

On 8/20/10 5:16 PM, Richard wrote: Yes, standard VGA monitor. They're not terrible terminals, but kinda flimsy, not very fast, and most PC-grade monitors are, well, PC-grade. I much prefer VT320s and VT420s. I did run the VT525 with a monochrome VGA monitor for a little while, and that was very nice. Incidentally, the VT525 is in a chassis almost identical to that of the Multia Alpha-based systems. I think they had an x86 system in that chassis at one point as well. I just checked my eBay records; I sold mine for $32.00 in 2007. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

Richard wrote: Unfortunately, it uses the later ANSI color stuff rather than the control codes used previously with the VT340/VT241. Peace... Sridhar