24 Aug
2010
24 Aug
'10
11:51 a.m.
Hello all,
I would like to play^H^H^H^H use some of my vintage portables the way
they were intended. For example, the Radio Shack Model 100 and the HP
110 Portable have 300bps internal modems. I have several other modems
thru which these machines could talk to a *NIX but I do not want to pay
for multiple phone lines in my home. How can I simulate a POTS
connection between these modems? I don't need a dial tone or ringing,
etc., as I can just tell one machine to connect and the other to answer.
Way back I heard that a few modems would work if the tip and ring wires
of the modems were crossed and connected, but most need something more
than that. Is there some simple circuit I could build? Surely I'm not
the first to want to avoid phone bills for such play^H^H^H^H testing.
Jim
24 Aug
24 Aug
1:04 p.m.
time to build a telephone exchange at home....
/me ducks and runs
Dave Caroline
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Jim Scheef <scheefj at netscape.net> wrote:
Hello all,
I would like to play^H^H^H^H use some of my vintage portables the way they
were intended. For example, the Radio Shack Model 100 and the HP 110
Portable have 300bps internal modems. I have several other modems thru which
these machines could talk to a *NIX but I do not want to pay for multiple
phone lines in my home. How can I simulate a POTS connection between these
modems? I don't need a dial tone or ringing, etc., as I can just tell one
machine to connect and the other to answer. Way back I heard that a few
modems would work if the tip and ring wires of the modems were crossed and
connected, but most need something more than that. Is there some simple
circuit I could build? Surely I'm not the first to want to avoid phone bills
for such play^H^H^H^H testing.
Jim
1:37 p.m.
On 8/24/10, Dave Caroline <dave.thearchivist at gmail.com> wrote:
time to build a telephone exchange at home....
I have one - it has two lines. It was a product we sold after bisync
and SNA emulator sales tanked. There's an 8048 MCU inside, along with
two "SLIC"s (Subscriber Line ICs). The 8048 listens to DTMF tones and
provides various simulated faults or a solid connection based on the
number you dialed. We also had a 4-line product we bought from some
other company to see what other products looked like (all did solid
connections; few did simulated line faults).
Our faux-exchange (sold under the trademark "COMBOX") was really
helpful when I was developing V.25 autodialer code for our flagship
product. Mostly, we used "busy" and "never answer" codes to test
rejects and timeouts, and it didn't tie up two of our modem lines to
do it.
As for a simple simulation at home, a 6VDC to 24VDC loop might be
enough to pull it off, though some devices won't know to pick up
unless you simulate an AC ring.
-ethan
1:54 p.m.
In article <AANLkTik64N9u9MuaY9=vx61kUXVozih5g0SHRzxUftR6 at mail.gmail.com>,
Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> writes:
On 8/24/10, Dave Caroline <dave.thearchivist at
gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds like a nice little arduino project?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
time to build a telephone exchange at home....
I have one - it has two lines. It was a product we sold after bisync
and SNA emulator sales tanked. There's an 8048 MCU inside, along with
two "SLIC"s (Subscriber Line ICs). The 8048 listens to DTMF tones and
provides various simulated faults or a solid connection based on the
number you dialed. [...]
As for a simple simulation at home, a 6VDC to 24VDC loop might be
enough to pull it off, though some devices won't know to pick up
unless you simulate an AC ring.
3:24 p.m.
On 8/24/10, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
In article <AANLkTik64N9u9MuaY9=vx61kUXVozih5g0SHRzxUftR6 at mail.gmail.com>,
Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> writes:
If you mean as an enhancement to the COMBOX, that might be pretty
cool. I don't relish trying to hammer on the 8048 code - it was
written by a hardware engineer and has zero comments, zero vertical
formatting, and has tests followed by branches two and three code
pages later. The listing resembles the output of an automated
non-symbolic code disassembler (the same guy wrote the firmware for
our Qbus product - I had to re-write most of the structure for the
firmware for our VAX-BI card).
If you mean as a controller for a home-CO, I don't see the
application. If you need a powered loop (depending on the age of the
gear attached to it), you need enough DC voltage (up to 48VDC) to make
the two devices think they are attached to the POTS network. When we
were kids, that was a lantern battery to make a couple of analog
phones work for talking, for example. If the receiving device won't
connect without a ring (I've seen modems and such that needed ring
voltage to latch relays, but many devices can just be put in "ANSWER"
mode), that's another animal entirely. You can probably get away with
120VAC @ 60Hz, but officially, ISTR, it's more like 90VAC @ 20Hz.
That part should only matter if you are trying to get a mechanical
bell ringer to sound. An arduino won't help with establishing a DC
voltage, nor synthesizing an AC voltage (at least not in any way that
couldn't replaced by a 555 timer)
-ethan
I have one - it has two lines... There's an
8048 MCU inside, along with
two "SLIC"s (Subscriber Line ICs). The 8048 listens to DTMF tones and
provides various simulated faults or a solid connection based on the
number you dialed. [...]
As for a simple simulation at home, a 6VDC to 24VDC loop might be
enough to pull it off, though some devices won't know to pick up
unless you simulate an AC ring.
Sounds like a nice little arduino project?
4:09 p.m.
In article <AANLkTikN=WGkwdxQ+bBRcCkq04yW2usFuF8cdQb6gRib at mail.gmail.com>,
Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> writes:
An arduino won't help with establishing a DC
voltage, nor synthesizing an AC voltage (at least not in any way that
couldn't replaced by a 555 timer)
No, an arduino alone won't do it for the analog supplies as you
rightly point out. However, people have been hacking lots of this
sort of extra stuff onto arduino's lately, so there is a fairly large
community to tap for suggestions on how to do that sort of stuff.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
2:10 p.m.
I have hooked up the modems from a Coleco ADAM and Kaypro 2X together before
with nothing but phone line and it ran fine. Both of those computers have
relatively "dumb" modems though.
________________________________
From: Dave Caroline <dave.thearchivist at gmail.com>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 12:04:07 PM
Subject: Re: Simulated telephone
time to build a telephone exchange at home....
/me ducks and runs
Dave Caroline
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Jim Scheef <scheefj at netscape.net> wrote:
Hello all,
I would like to play^H^H^H^H use some of my vintage portables the way they
were intended. For example, the Radio Shack Model 100 and the HP 110
Portable have 300bps internal modems. I have several other modems thru which
these machines could talk to a *NIX but I do not want to pay for multiple
phone lines in my home. How can I simulate a POTS connection between these
modems? I don't need a dial tone or ringing, etc., as I can just tell one
machine to connect and the other to answer. Way back I heard that a few
modems would work if the tip and ring wires of the modems were crossed and
connected, but most need something more than that. Is there some simple
circuit I could build? Surely I'm not the first to want to avoid phone bills
for such play^H^H^H^H testing.
Jim
1:44 p.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Namens Jim Scheef
Verzonden: dinsdag 24 augustus 2010 17:51
Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Onderwerp: Simulated telephone
Hello all,
I would like to play^H^H^H^H use some of my vintage portables
the way they were intended. For example, the Radio Shack
Model 100 and the HP 110 Portable have 300bps internal
modems. I have several other modems thru which these machines
could talk to a *NIX but I do not want to pay for multiple
phone lines in my home. How can I simulate a POTS connection
between these modems? I don't need a dial tone or ringing,
etc., as I can just tell one machine to connect and the other
to answer.
Way back I heard that a few modems would work if the tip and
ring wires of the modems were crossed and connected, but most
need something more than that. Is there some simple circuit I
could build? Surely I'm not the first to want to avoid phone
bills for such play^H^H^H^H testing.
Jim
If you can get your hands on a small old analog house phone unit, then you
can build your own privat phone network.
I've an old PTT Vox unit(dutch phone company)which understands ATF and pulse
dailing, 4 internal lines enough to play with modems etc..
-Rik
1:51 p.m.
On 2010 Aug 24, at 8:51 AM, Jim Scheef wrote:
I would like to play^H^H^H^H use some of my vintage
portables the way
they were intended. For example, the Radio Shack Model 100 and the HP
110 Portable have 300bps internal modems. I have several other modems
thru which these machines could talk to a *NIX but I do not want to
pay for multiple phone lines in my home. How can I simulate a POTS
connection between these modems? I don't need a dial tone or ringing,
etc., as I can just tell one machine to connect and the other to
answer. Way back I heard that a few modems would work if the tip and
ring wires of the modems were crossed and connected, but most need
something more than that. Is there some simple circuit I could build?
Surely I'm not the first to want to avoid phone bills for such
play^H^H^H^H testing.
If both modems in a given connection are older ('80s), lower-speed
(300-1200/2400) it will likely work by simply connecting them together
and commanding one off-hook in answer mode (ATA ?), then the other
off-hook in originate mode (ATD ? ATH1 ?). I have successfully done
this with particular modems up to 14.4Kbps but might be forgetting the
commands.
The older, lower-speed modems are likely to be transformer-coupled onto
the line and will inject audio energy onto the line without need for DC
line current. Some higher-speed modems do this as well and will work,
other higher-speed modems use opto-couplers and need the DC line
current to modulate.
You shouldn't need to worry about 'crossing' tip and ring. Technically
it is more correct to connect tip-tip and ring-ring, although it is not
likely to matter one way or the other. At the electrical level it is
not a null-modem-type situation where one has to swap xmtr-rcvr
circuits.
2:07 p.m.
if its modem to modem over a typical phone cable,
you should be able to use ATA and ATO (that's the letter not the number)
O - originate, A - answer
used to do this all the time, but it only works in pairs
if you want a proper exchange with multiple extensions or something
you'd have to do more work.
I also toyed with plugging modems into ATA voip adapters and connecting that way,
it was a bit weird and speeds weren't the greatest, but I did get it working in a
limited fashion
If both modems in a given connection are older
('80s), lower-speed
(300-1200/2400) it will likely work by simply connecting them together
and commanding one off-hook in answer mode (ATA ?), then the other
off-hook in originate mode (ATD ? ATH1 ?). I have successfully done
this with particular modems up to 14.4Kbps but might be forgetting the
commands.
6:21 p.m.
If you want to be able to test the dialing capabilities, then you need to
fake a dial-tone, a ringing signal, and a busy signal at least.
Phone line simulators do exist. I use one that was a "project" in
Radio-Electronics? about 15 years ago.
6:31 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Cisin" <cisin at xenosoft.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 4:21 PM
Subject: RE: Simulated telephone
If you want to be able to test the dialing
capabilities, then you need to
fake a dial-tone, a ringing signal, and a busy signal at least.
An ATA, and a local SIP server (or even a third party one) do this fine.
ATA = Analog Telephone Adaptor... it's the very epitome of a phone line
emulator. (I use a Linksys PAP2.)
Jim
8:28 p.m.
On Tuesday (08/24/2010 at 03:21PM -0700), Fred Cisin wrote:
If you want to be able to test the dialing
capabilities, then you need to
fake a dial-tone, a ringing signal, and a busy signal at least.
Phone line simulators do exist. I use one that was a "project" in
Radio-Electronics? about 15 years ago.
I use one of these, Teltone TLS-5,
http://www.teltone.com/products/simulators/tls5/home.htm
(actually the model TLS-4, which a friend loned to me) I have a
collection of acoustic coupled terminal devices and modems here so I
actually use an old AT&T deskset telephone to originate calls to a POTS
line smart modem connected to a terminal server. From there I can get
to numerous Linux boxes running various emulators (DEC PDP RT-11, RSX,
CDC NOS, etc) and other vintage systems depending on what we want to
play^H^H^H^H test with.
~.~~NO CARRIER
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
25 Aug
25 Aug
2 a.m.
In article <20100825002826.GA14137 at n0jcf.net>,
Chris Elmquist <chrise at pobox.com> writes:
(actually the model TLS-4, which a friend loned to me)
I have a
collection of acoustic coupled terminal devices and modems here
[...]
Do tell!
As a fellow terminal freak, I'd love to hear what kind of acoustic
coupled terminal devices you have!
My plan is to do something very similar to what you've done: connect
the terminals to a terminal server and then have hosts reachable from
that. It never occured to me to have vintage hosts running in
emulators on a PC, though, what a great idea! It really completes the
vintage experience. Imparting that vintage terminal experience is
part of what I'm trying to do with my museum. Having a vintage OS on
the other end is brilliant!
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
2:50 a.m.
On 8/25/10 2:00 AM, Richard wrote:
As a fellow terminal freak, I'd love to hear what
kind of acoustic
coupled terminal devices you have!
Forgive me for jumping in, but I have to ask, does your terminal
fetish include terminal emulator software at all, or physical terminals
only?
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
5:48 p.m.
In article <20100825002826.GA14137 at n0jcf.net>,
Chris Elmquist <chrise at pobox.com> writes:
I am not a terminal fanatic, but I have a couple of somewhat unusual
accoustically-coupled devices. The first (and I suspect more common) is a
portable thermal prinitng terminal (no, not a Silent 700) with an
accoustic coupler on the back. I've never used the coupler, there is also
an RS232 socket which I have used...
The second isn't a terminal, it's an EPROM programemr (!). It appears to
have been used by some company's field service to download and program
ROMs on-site. A bopx with the accoustic cups on top, a few control
switches and a ZIF socket.
I really must make a phone line simulator and/or a telephone exchange...
(actually the model TLS-4, which a friend loned
to me) I have a
collection of acoustic coupled terminal devices and modems here
[...]
Do tell!
As a fellow terminal freak, I'd love to hear what kind of acoustic
coupled terminal devices you have!
My plan is to do something very similar to what you've done: connect
the terminals to a terminal server and then have hosts reachable from
that. It never occured to me to have vintage hosts running in
emulators on a PC, though, what a great idea! It really completes the
vintage experience. Imparting that vintage terminal experience is
Siurel to _complete_ the vintage experience you should have the real
vintage host (and not an emulator) running on the other end of the line.
That's what I would do.
-tony
9:25 p.m.
On Wednesday (08/25/2010 at 10:48PM +0100), Tony Duell wrote:
There was a thing I saw as a kid and wanted really badly... called a
Whisper Writer. I believe it was built my 3M company but was a very
small, very portable (for late 70's technology) thermal printer +
keyboard with acoustic coupler. Is it one of those by chance?
Well, yes... but a CDC Cyber 800 or 875 to be specific, is kinda large
for my basement ;-) So, that one gets emulated.
For DEC stuff, it's mostly a curiousity to explore the old OSes. I would
love to have an 11/23 or 11/34 as they were one of the first systems
I wrote code on for money when I was in high school. But, again, I'm
balancing space for capability. Instead, I seem to be collecting the
real peripheral devices and spoofing the "mainframe in the basement"
with emulators.
My terminal collection is still growing but I do have several TI Silent
700. One is the first generation model 725... which is the size of a
giant suitcase and has a Novation acoustic coupler on the right hand side.
I also have a couple TI 745 which are the smaller (closer to portable)
units with the acoustic coupler at the back of the unit.
I worked for Multi-Tech Systems here in MN for many years... first
in the late 70's and again in the early 90's and of course collected
souvenirs along the way. I have several FM-30 acoustic couplers which
were the first digital discriminator based modem that Multi-Tech built
and I have those connected to a pair of DEC LA120. This configuration
replicates what we had in grade school and high school for calling
into the state-wide computer network, which, surprise, was a Cyber 800
series mainframe running NOS (and a University of MN derivative OS).
So, I can dialup the "Cyber" from my LA120 and play Oregon Trail ;-)
I have a Teletype model 33 that was OEM'd by Anderson Jacobsen and has
one of their acoustic couplers mounted on the right-hand side where some
TWX models of the 33 would have a rotary or DTMF dial. This has the
full size acoustic coupler with HALF/FULL slide switch and big green
CARRIER light. Kinda fun.
I have a Heathkit H19 terminal that I built in 1978 which is a "floater".
Sometimes it's hooked to an acoustic coupler (an FM-300, which was
Multi-Tech's first product-- a completely analog-- as in lots of opamps--
acoustic coupled modem and sometimes hardwired to the terminal server
and sometimes connected to one of several other Multi-Tech direct connect
modems such as a 1200 baud MT212AH (one of their first smart modems)
and an MT932 which is a 9600 baud v.32 unit.
I guess this place is a celebration of old MN computing and computing
products circa 1970-1980. It's definitely constrained to things I had
as a kid or have used in my career (ah, mostly constrained that is ;-) )
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
In article <20100825002826.GA14137 at n0jcf.net>,
Chris Elmquist <chrise at pobox.com> writes:
I am not a terminal fanatic, but I have a couple of somewhat unusual
accoustically-coupled devices. The first (and I suspect more common) is a
portable thermal prinitng terminal (no, not a Silent 700) with an
accoustic coupler on the back. I've never used the coupler, there is also
an RS232 socket which I have used... (actually the model TLS-4, which a friend loned
to me) I have a
collection of acoustic coupled terminal devices and modems here
[...]
Do tell!
As a fellow terminal freak, I'd love to hear what kind of acoustic
coupled terminal devices you have! The second isn't a terminal, it's an EPROM
programemr (!). It appears to
have been used by some company's field service to download and program
ROMs on-site. A bopx with the accoustic cups on top, a few control
switches and a ZIF socket.
Very interesting. One wonders what sort of error correction they were
able to implement to ensure that any line noise didn't trash the stuff
you were committing to the EPROM.
I really must make a phone line simulator and/or a
telephone exchange...
I would sure have done so too if I hadn't been able to scam this Teltone
unit from my buddy.
My plan is to
do something very similar to what you've done: connect
the terminals to a terminal server and then have hosts reachable from
that. It never occured to me to have vintage hosts running in
emulators on a PC, though, what a great idea! It really completes the
vintage experience. Imparting that vintage terminal experience is
Siurel to _complete_ the vintage experience you should have the real
vintage host (and not an emulator) running on the other end of the line.
That's what I would do.
26 Aug
26 Aug
3:02 p.m.
I am not a
terminal fanatic, but I have a couple of somewhat unusual
accoustically-coupled devices. The first (and I suspect more common) is a
portable thermal prinitng terminal (no, not a Silent 700) with an
accoustic coupler on the back. I've never used the coupler, there is also
an RS232 socket which I have used...
There was a thing I saw as a kid and wanted really badly... called a
Whisper Writer. I believe it was built my 3M company but was a very
small, very portable (for late 70's technology) thermal printer +
keyboard with acoustic coupler. Is it one of those by chance? The second isn't a terminal, it's an
EPROM programemr (!). It appears to
have been used by some company's field service to download and program
ROMs on-site. A bopx with the accoustic cups on top, a few control
switches and a ZIF socket.
Very interesting. One wonders what sort of error correction they were
able to implement to ensure that any line noise didn't trash the stuff
you were committing to the EPROM. I really must make a phone line simulator and/or
a telephone exchange...
I would sure have done so too if I hadn't been able to scam this Teltone
unit from my buddy. I have a Teletype model 33 that was OEM'd by
Anderson Jacobsen and has
one of their acoustic couplers mounted on the right-hand side where some
TWX models of the 33 would have a rotary or DTMF dial. This has the
full size acoustic coupler with HALF/FULL slide switch and big green
CARRIER light. Kinda fun.
Taht reminds me... I have an A-J acoustic coupler ina wooden box
somewhere...
I don';t fancy tryign to get reliable operation from an acoustic coupler
mounted right next to an ASR33 typing unit., but anyway...
-tony
6:28 p.m.
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Alas not. It was made by a company called
'Computer Devices Inc' and
claims to be a 'Miniterm 1203' Does anyone have any more infoemtion?
No information to speak of, but I do have the same or similar model:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chiclassiccomp/455415489/in/set-72157606520513…
I'll have to check for a numeric model # when I get home. IIRC I had
this one working off the coupler at some point.
--
jht
27 Aug
27 Aug
4:17 p.m.
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Yes, that looks very like it. Do you have the cover? Mine has a plastic
cover that hooks into 2 little brackets at the back and then comes down
over the whole machine with latches at the front. There's a carrying
handle on the front too, and you can store it standing vertically with
the bck downwards. There's a littke compartment in the cover over the
keybaord where yoy can store a spare roll of paper, a mains lead and an
RS232 cable.
Alas not. It was made by a company called
'Computer Devices Inc' and
claims to be a 'Miniterm 1203' Does anyone have any more infoemtion?
No information to speak of, but I do have the same or similar model:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chiclassiccomp/455415489/in/set-72157606520513…
I'll have to check for a numeric model # when I get home. IIRC I had
this one working off the coupler at some point.
I am going to have to dive into mine again. I rememebr there being a
couple of sets of jumpers (DIL headers with wires soldered between the
pins) and I never figured out what they do
-tony
28 Aug
28 Aug
12:19 p.m.
Fred Cisin wrote:
Phone line simulators do exist. I use one that was a
"project" in
Radio-Electronics? about 15 years ago.
There was a two-part construction article "Build the Party Line" by
Thomas E. Black in the January and February 1996 issues of Electronics
Now. Unfortunately the source code for the firmware was not provided.
The object code was downloadable from the Gernsback BBS, which I'm
guessing is no longer in existence. However, I don't think it would be
hard to write replacement firmware.
It appears that it is now sold as a commercial product:
http://www.digitalproductsco.com/partyln.htm
Eric
26 Aug
26 Aug
12:02 a.m.
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010, Brent Hilpert wrote:
If both modems in a given connection are older
('80s), lower-speed
(300-1200/2400) it will likely work by simply connecting them together
and commanding one off-hook in answer mode (ATA ?), then the other
off-hook in originate mode (ATD ? ATH1 ?). I have successfully done
this with particular modems up to 14.4Kbps but might be forgetting the
commands.
Many of my older modems are from BEFORE "Hayes Compatible" became the
standard for giving commands to the modem.
BTW, Joe Campbell ("RS232 Solution", "C Programmer's Guide to Serial
Communication", etc.) got hired later by Hayes to document just what the
Hayes "standard" consisted of, because there were numerous variation in
commands between Hayes' own modems!
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
2:16 a.m.
On 2010 Aug 25, at 9:02 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010, Brent Hilpert wrote:
Well, I was thinking of adding in that if you have a really old modem
you might have to flip the originate/answer switch appropriately if it
has one, but I think the OP indicated he was dealing with later stuff.
(I have a couple of pre-'smart' modems, too.)
If both modems in a given connection are older
('80s), lower-speed
(300-1200/2400) it will likely work by simply connecting them together
and commanding one off-hook in answer mode (ATA ?), then the other
off-hook in originate mode (ATD ? ATH1 ?). I have successfully done
this with particular modems up to 14.4Kbps but might be forgetting the
commands.
Many of my older modems are from BEFORE "Hayes Compatible" became the
standard for giving commands to the modem. BTW, Joe Campbell ("RS232 Solution", "C
Programmer's Guide to Serial
Communication", etc.) got hired later by Hayes to document just what
the
Hayes "standard" consisted of, because there were numerous variation in
commands between Hayes' own modems!
The hayes command set always seemed non-sensical to me. For example,
the AT prefix on (almost) everything when you were already in command
mode seemed quite unnecessary.
24 Aug
24 Aug
3:08 p.m.
PBX Simulators, different makes and models out there and while currently
it appears the ones on ebay cost more than it would new, they can
usually be obtained for a reasonable cost. The models I've used have a
handful of POTS jacks, 4 or 8 of them, and it gives basic tone and dial,
you just dial 1 for POTS 1, etc.
On 8/24/2010 10:51 AM, Jim Scheef wrote:
Hello all,
I would like to play^H^H^H^H use some of my vintage portables the way
they were intended. For example, the Radio Shack Model 100 and the HP
110 Portable have 300bps internal modems. I have several other modems
thru which these machines could talk to a *NIX but I do not want to
pay for multiple phone lines in my home. How can I simulate a POTS
connection between these modems? I don't need a dial tone or ringing,
etc., as I can just tell one machine to connect and the other to
answer. Way back I heard that a few modems would work if the tip and
ring wires of the modems were crossed and connected, but most need
something more than that. Is there some simple circuit I could build?
Surely I'm not the first to want to avoid phone bills for such
play^H^H^H^H testing.
Jim
3:31 p.m.
Another option would be to use VoIP. 300 bps seems to work fine on VoIP
(1200 less so). A couple of ATAs and an account on a VoIP provider, and you
can do this. You will even be able to dial to real services in remote
places if you want. There are usually * dial codes you can use to connect
to clients on the same VoIP provider, to keep the call free.
The problem here is forcing the answering host to answer. If you have a
terminal running at the answering host, you can manually answer even an
automatic modem (and thus have the modems connected directly together), but
transferring that connection to a serial console is a little trickier.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Lee" <mikelee at tdh.com>
To: <General at adelaide.photojim.ca>;
"Discussion at adelaide.photojim.ca:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: Simulated telephone
PBX Simulators, different makes and models out there
and while currently
it appears the ones on ebay cost more than it would new, they can usually
be obtained for a reasonable cost. The models I've used have a handful of
POTS jacks, 4 or 8 of them, and it gives basic tone and dial, you just
dial 1 for POTS 1, etc.
3:54 p.m.
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Michael Lee <mikelee at tdh.com> wrote:
PBX Simulators, different makes and models out there
and while currently it
appears the ones on ebay cost more than it would new, they can usually be
obtained for a reasonable cost. ?The models I've used have a handful of POTS
jacks, 4 or 8 of them, and it gives basic tone and dial, you just dial 1 for
POTS 1, etc.
There are a number of line simulators out there for POTS testing that
cost way more than they should. Another route is a small office PBX.
I have a Panasonic (model# not handy now but I can supply it later)
that cost me $75 and supports 4 POTS lines and 12 internal lines.
Each internal line has an extension # and is dialable. The Panasonics
are nice in that they are analog/digital hybrids. You will need one
Panasonic digital set to program it (although I see some companies
have serial interfaces and DOS-based programming software) but all
lines can handle purely analog sets. I have used mine to demo a
number of WE500 sets, so they do seem to provide ample current for
ring voltage (not that modem users will care much about that.)
I have not used mine yet for modems, as I have a smaller 4-line
benchtop simulator that's a bit more convenient, but I know the
Panasonics often had fax machines hung off of their line ports, so it
should be quite doable.
For those attending VCF-MW, I will probably bring one of both units
with one port being used for a modem attached to a terminal server so
equipment like the OP mentioned (and of course the Silent700 terminal
:) can access our host system(s.)
We're gonna lay a lot of copper at this thing :)
--
jht
-j
25 Aug
25 Aug
11:20 a.m.
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Jason T <silent700 at gmail.com> wrote:
There are a number of line simulators out there for
POTS testing that
cost way more than they should. ?Another route is a small office PBX.
I have a Panasonic (model# not handy now but I can supply it later)
Here ya go:
http://search.ebay.com/110552293207
For when that link expires, it's a Panasonic KX-T30810 small office
PBX. 3 outside lines, 8 internal (so you can have 8 modems talk to
each other in the house) for $39.99. You'll need a Panasonic digital
set like the KX-T1232xx or KX-T70xx to program it, but I believe
out-of-the-box all the internals can dial each other.
--
jht
12:11 p.m.
I had no idea the small office PBX was so cheap now. I should get one
of those for my phone-only terminals.
In article <AANLkTi=u8HgsOOqrq58c8st-Nrd+D=bttXjaJW0ibKt4 at mail.gmail.com>,
Jason T <silent700 at gmail.com> writes:
each other in the house) for $39.99. You'll need
a Panasonic digital
set like the KX-T1232xx or KX-T70xx to program it, but I believe
out-of-the-box all the internals can dial each other.
Will these do the job? ebay # 380262117910
Another $50, assuming you get minimum bid.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
8:17 p.m.
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
Will these do the job? ebay # 380262117910
Another $50, assuming you get minimum bid.
I see $20, and that's a whole set! The 7050 should do it for
programming. These guys claim to have software (for DOS on early
Windows, apparently.) I've never tried it:
http://www.pbxsoftware.com/winprog/index.shtml
26 Aug
26 Aug
1:35 p.m.
In article <AANLkTim1uo2nA8hudzpqN4K+piGm9Rak7WX6jmvMPt2R at mail.gmail.com>,
Jason T <silent700 at gmail.com> writes:
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Richard <legalize
at xmission.com> wrote:
Yes, but it was $30 shipping.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
Will these do the job? ebay # 380262117910
Another $50, assuming you get minimum bid.
I see $20, and that's a whole set!
2:40 p.m.
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
Yes, but it was $30 shipping.
Ouch! Missed that.
For those really interested in home PBXes, demoing phones (and
modems,) etc., the list over at Singing Wires/TCI has been helpful to
me. I bought my Panasonic set from a member there:
http://telephonecollectors.org/
25 Aug
25 Aug
6:53 p.m.
For my BBS project using the N8VEM, I used a TalkSwitch PBX. Downside to
that is it's Touch-Tone only. I've also used a decommissioned Panasonic PBX
(I forget the model number) with 24 station lines and 8 CO lines. I used
this setup with everything from the PMMI modem on my IMSAI to modems of
Commodore and Apple vintage. Works like a charm.
On 8/24/10 3:08 PM, "Michael Lee" <mikelee at tdh.com> wrote:
PBX Simulators, different makes and models out there
and while currently
it appears the ones on ebay cost more than it would new, they can
usually be obtained for a reasonable cost. The models I've used have a
handful of POTS jacks, 4 or 8 of them, and it gives basic tone and dial,
you just dial 1 for POTS 1, etc.
On 8/24/2010 10:51 AM, Jim Scheef wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I would like to play^H^H^H^H use some of my vintage portables the way
> they were intended. For example, the Radio Shack Model 100 and the HP
> 110 Portable have 300bps internal modems. I have several other modems
> thru which these machines could talk to a *NIX but I do not want to
> pay for multiple phone lines in my home. How can I simulate a POTS
> connection between these modems? I don't need a dial tone or ringing,
> etc., as I can just tell one machine to connect and the other to
> answer. Way back I heard that a few modems would work if the tip and
> ring wires of the modems were crossed and connected, but most need
> something more than that. Is there some simple circuit I could build?
> Surely I'm not the first to want to avoid phone bills for such
> play^H^H^H^H testing.
>
> Jim
Rich
--
Rich Cini
Collector of Classic Computers
Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator
http://www.altair32.com
http://www.classiccmp.org/cini
24 Aug
24 Aug
4:24 p.m.
Hello all,
I would like to play^H^H^H^H use some of my vintage portables the way
they were intended. For example, the Radio Shack Model 100 and the HP
110 Portable have 300bps internal modems. I have several other modems
thru which these machines could talk to a *NIX but I do not want to pay
for multiple phone lines in my home. How can I simulate a POTS
connection between these modems? I don't need a dial tone or ringing,
etc., as I can just tell one machine to connect and the other to answer.
Way back I heard that a few modems would work if the tip and ring wires
of the modems were crossed and connected, but most need something more
than that. Is there some simple circuit I could build? Surely I'm not
the first to want to avoid phone bills for such play^H^H^H^H testing.
What you need is a 'telephone line simulator' There are many versions
from the very simple (one phone going off-hook causes
the device to send
ringing voltage to the other device, then when that goes
off-hook they
are linked), via the more complicated proper dialing andf ringing tones),
up to the 'real' ones which allow you to delibrately degrade the
connection (introduce losses, noise, etc) for testing modems and the like.
I seem to rememebr last time I did a search for this on google, I found a
fairly simple circuit in the second category. There was a simpler one
publisehd in the US magazine Popular Electornics (Poptronix???) and
reprinted in 'Telephone Projects for the Evil Genius', but that book
seems to have so many errors (including extra/missing connections on
schematics!) that I am not sure I recomend trying to follow it.
If you don't need ringing -- that is you can maually set both devices
off-hook, then very often jsut linking the tips and rings of the 2
devbices will work. While telephones need a DC power supply from the
phone line (commonly called 'battery' over here since the telephone
exchanges ran off large lead-acid batteries), Modems don't generally draw
any power from the phone line, so you don't need this DC supply. If for
some reason you do need it, then try connected tips and rings as before
and connect a 24 V DC supply in series with a 1k resistor (or so...)
between tip and ring.
-tony
25 Aug
25 Aug
5:20 a.m.
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010, Jim Scheef wrote:
I would like to play^H^H^H^H use some of my vintage
portables the way they
were intended. For example, the Radio Shack Model 100 and the HP 110 Portable
have 300bps internal modems. I have several other modems thru which these
machines could talk to a *NIX but I do not want to pay for multiple phone
lines in my home. How can I simulate a POTS connection between these modems?
I'd use a cheap telephone system (PBX) with 8 or more private lines.
Shouldn't cost you more than 50 EUR for an analogue-only system. If you
are very lucky you may even get an ISDN one for not much more.
Christian
5043
days inactive
5047
days old
33 comments
18 participants
participants (18)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cc＠informatik.uni-stuttgart.de -
chrise＠pobox.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dave.thearchivist＠gmail.com -
dgahling＠hotmail.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca -
hp-fix＠xs4all.nl -
jim＠photojim.ca -
legalize＠xmission.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
mikelee＠tdh.com -
oltmansg＠bellsouth.net -
rich.cini＠verizon.net -
scheefj＠netscape.net -
silent700＠gmail.com