23 Apr
2006
23 Apr
'06
11:47 a.m.
I'm looking to acquire a terminal server so I can feed all the beasts
simultaneously :-).
Before a couple days ago, I didn't know anything about terminals servers
beyond the fact that they existed, so consider me a n00b.
I see that DEC has had a line of terminal servers. They look like
they would do the job (my needs are more along the lines of
connectivity rather than fancy features like 3270 support).
Reading around on the net indicates that Xylogics had a good line of
terminal servers, but that the similarly named Xyplex had buggy
product.
I'm not fixated on the DEC brand, but it looks like they made lots of
product over the years making them readily available and reasonably
priced.
I'm looking for at least 16 ports, preferably 32 as I've already got
more than 16 terminals :-). Whether those 32 ports come in one box or
two boxes (or even 4 boxes) is not so much a concern to me as is the
total cost of acquisition. Ultimately this could feed into a public
interactive museum space exhibit on timesharing. At the moment I
could connect the following:
- DEC
LA-120
VT-100
VT-278
- Heath/Zenith
Z-19
- Hewlett-Packard
HP1351A
HP2397A
HP2621A
HP2648A (2)
- Honeywell
VIP 7809
- Lear Siegler
ADM-3A
ADM-5 (2)
- Megatek
Whizzard 1645
- Tektronix
4010
4014
4105 (4)
9200T (6)
9201T (8)
- Televideo
925
- Teletype
Model 43
- Texas Instruments
Silent 700 (2)
- Westinghouse
W1643
Total: 39
Now realistically, I don't think it would be fruitfull to connect all
39 terminals in my collection as i) I plan on liquidating some of the
Tektronxi 9200T/9201Ts, one of the Silent 700s only has a modem
interface on the exterior and the Westinghouse doesn't have a keyboard
and has some sort of weird party line interface. However, even if you
factor all of those out of the picture a 32-port server still only
leaves me a few ports open. I'd probably need to get up to 64 line
capacity at some point.
Suggestions? Currently I've been looking at the DECserver stuff on
ebay; they seem relatively plentiful and it seems that with patience a
good price could be had. There's a bundle of them on govliq right
now, but the operating condition is unknown.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
23 Apr
23 Apr
1:01 p.m.
I'm looking to acquire a terminal server so I can
feed all the beasts
simultaneously :-).
Richard,
I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for ... but I do have a
spare Newbridge 1032 data PBX. It goes up to 56 ports, and I
have scads of cards for it, so I can give you the full 56.
the 1032 is an async data PBX - it supports speeds from 50-19200
bps, and runs each interface independantly with buffering and
flow-control to accomodate mismatched speeds (ie: your computers
and terminals don't all have to run the same speed).
Tons of features (I once worked out that there was 2x10**24 different
ways to configure a port).
Basically, you connect to the unit, then enter the name of the port or
hunt-group you want to connect to. Once connected, it is as if you
are directly connected. You can "escape" back to a local command
prompt and do things like put the connection on hold, park it and
pick it up from somewhere else etc. It does full connect/disconnect
signalling via the RS-232 control lines as well.
I know a lot about it because I designed it... So I can probably help
with any problems you might encounter :-)
I've also got some smaller 1008, 1080 and 1082 units.
I can send a .TXT manual if you want more info.
Regards,
Dave
--
dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield
dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com
com Collector of vintage computing equipment:
http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html
26 Apr
26 Apr
10:55 a.m.
In article <20060423190306.FDCH8983.orval.sprint.ca at dunfield.com>,
"Dave Dunfield" <dave06a at dunfield.com> writes:
I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for
... but I do have a
spare Newbridge 1032 data PBX. It goes up to 56 ports, and I
have scads of cards for it, so I can give you the full 56.
Hi Dave,
So what are you asking for the data PBX and in what configuration?
-- Richard
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
11:05 a.m.
Oops, that was supposed to be an email reply, sorry :)
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
23 Apr
23 Apr
5:25 p.m.
At 12:47 PM -0600 4/23/06, Richard wrote:
- Honeywell
VIP 7809
I think you might find that this speaks some weird protocol, and that
it probably expects to be connected to a Honeywell IOP (I/O
Processor). I don't remember the specifics, and don't have my
manuals handy (not even sure I have any that cover terminals, as
they're mostly for GCOS-8).
Do you happen to know what type computer it expected to talk to, and
do you happen to have a picture of it online anywhere?
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
24 Apr
24 Apr
9:36 a.m.
In article <a06200715c071cacf596f(a)[192.168.1.199]>9]>,
"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> writes:
I purchased it off ebay and it has a ruggedized military shipping case
and what looks to be standard RS-232 style cabling. I haven't
attempted to power it on or attach it to anything yet, although the
seller reported it working when powered on. I just thought the
military shipping crate was too cool to pass up :-).
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
- Honeywell
VIP 7809
I think you might find that this speaks some weird protocol, and that
it probably expects to be connected to a Honeywell IOP (I/O
Processor). I don't remember the specifics, and don't have my
manuals handy (not even sure I have any that cover terminals, as
they're mostly for GCOS-8).
Do you happen to know what type computer it expected to talk to, and
do you happen to have a picture of it online anywhere? 
23 Apr
23 Apr
7:29 p.m.
Richard wrote....
I'm looking to acquire a terminal server so I can
feed all the beasts
simultaneously :-).
Before a couple days ago, I didn't know anything about terminals servers
beyond the fact that they existed, so consider me a n00b.
Richard;
Different terminals excel at doing different things better than others. Can
you clarify exactly what you want to accomplish?
Jay
24 Apr
24 Apr
9:38 a.m.
In article <006501c66746$f5738c80$6800a8c0 at HPLAPTOP>,
"Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> writes:
Different terminal [servers] excel at doing different
things better
than others. Can you clarify exactly what you want to accomplish?
I don't have any specific end-goal in mind other than having all the
terminals up and doing something visually "interesting" at once. That
would either require a lot of serial ports connected to a single
computer, or a terminal server.
If I had to pick one area of functionality, I would say that it would
be best if the terminal server could max out the transmission rates of
all these terminals at once. (Unlikely, I suspect, but its a nice
goal.)
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
10:41 a.m.
Richard wrote...
I don't have any specific end-goal in mind other
than having all the
terminals up and doing something visually "interesting" at once. That
would either require a lot of serial ports connected to a single
computer, or a terminal server.
A terminal server probably isn't the best choice then. Not completely, but
in general, terminal servers are designed to take an ETHERNET connection to
a telnet-capable host and make it available to dumb terminals or vice versa.
It doesn't sound like you are trying to so that.
You most likely don't want a terminal server, you want the data pbx that
someone else mentioned.
Jay West
12:44 p.m.
In article <020b01c667c6$931c5190$6500a8c0 at BILLING>,
"Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> writes:
A terminal server probably isn't the best choice
then. Not completely, but
in general, terminal servers are designed to take an ETHERNET connection to
a telnet-capable host and make it available to dumb terminals or vice versa.
It doesn't sound like you are trying to so that.
Actually this is *exactly* what I'm trying to do.
You most likely don't want a terminal server, you
want the data pbx that
someone else mentioned.
Why do you say that? I can't tell the difference between a data pbx
and a terminal server at this point.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
2:03 p.m.
You wrote....
Actually this is *exactly* what I'm trying to do.
Ohhhh from your previous email, I thought you were hoping to use the term
server to hook up terminals to classic/vintage computers that did not have
an ethernet port (capability) in which case a term server isn't really what
you want.
But... if you are wanting to hook up terminals to a host computer that DOES
have an ethernet port and speaks TCP/IP (which rules out most of the stuff
in my collection anyways), then you're right, a terminal server is what you
want.
Jay
2:09 p.m.
Jay West wrote:
But... if you are wanting to hook up terminals to a
host computer
that DOES have an ethernet port and speaks TCP/IP (which rules out
most of the stuff in my collection anyways), then you're right, a
terminal server is what you want.
The later DEC terminal servers (many of them, at least) could be
used several ways.
They could provide a "network-accessible" RS232 interface that
you could plug into your machine's serial port, so you could
connect to a machine's console or to a printer or such like.
Or you could plug your terminal into a terminal server port
and talk to any ethernet-capable machine that spoke the relevant
protocols (LAT or telnet).
Antonio
--
Antonio carlini
arcarlini at iee.org
3:43 p.m.
In article <02cf01c667e2$8b637a20$6500a8c0 at BILLING>,
"Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> writes:
You wrote....
The end goal is to have some way of driving a significant number of
terminals all at once without having one PC per terminal. I'm
thinking the VAXserver could handle this, the only question is if the
OpenVMS license would allow for multiple logon sessions. In some
alternative reality I would like to reproduce a midrange timesharing
system, probably something PDP-11 based. But those didn't have
ethernet back in the day, I don't know how well they would work with a
terminal server. Our PDP-11/70 had gobs of serial ports on it, I
think.
However, its my understanding that you could use the terminal server
"in reverse" to connect from the TCP/IP enabled machine to a port on
the terminal server and from there talk to the RS-232 style monitor
port on an older machine like some S-100 bus based machine. While
this is not my use case, I thought you could do this as people on the
net talk about using terminal servers to monitor the serial console
port on a Sun.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
Actually this is *exactly* what I'm trying to
do.
Ohhhh from your previous email, I thought you were hoping to use the term
server to hook up terminals to classic/vintage computers that did not have
an ethernet port (capability) in which case a term server isn't really what
you want. 
8:18 p.m.
However, its my understanding that you could use the
terminal server
"in reverse" to connect from the TCP/IP enabled machine to a port on
the terminal server and from there talk to the RS-232 style monitor
port on an older machine like some S-100 bus based machine.
This depends on the terminal server. Some of them do this ("reverse
telnet", I think at least one of them calls it); others don't. If this
is what you want, you need to be careful when looking at terminal
servers to make sure you get one that can do it.
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
8:46 p.m.
Richard wrote....
> However, its my understanding that you could use
the terminal server
> "in reverse" to connect from the TCP/IP enabled machine to a port on
> the terminal server and from there talk to the RS-232 style monitor
> port on an older machine like some S-100 bus based machine.
To which Der Mouse replied...
This depends on the terminal server. Some of them do
this ("reverse
telnet", I think at least one of them calls it); others don't. If this
is what you want, you need to be careful when looking at terminal
servers to make sure you get one that can do it.
Exactly my point... which is why I said " *GENERALLY* terminal servers
aren't the right tool for this", and instead said the data pbx was. Richard
keeps saying 'terminal server', but all he specifies makes me think he wants
the data pbx instead.
Jay
9:01 p.m.
On Monday 24 April 2006 23:46, Jay West wrote:
Richard wrote....
Actually, I think that you can do this fairly readily with Xyplex
Maxserver 16xx's, or any DECserver that does reverse LAT.
Perhaps, a pair of DS500s or DS550s. :)
Pat
--
Purdue University ITAP/RCAC --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
> However, its my understanding that you could
use the terminal
> server "in reverse" to connect from the TCP/IP enabled machine to
> a port on the terminal server and from there talk to the RS-232
> style monitor port on an older machine like some S-100 bus based
> machine.
To which Der Mouse replied...
This depends on the terminal server. Some of
them do this
("reverse telnet", I think at least one of them calls it); others
don't. If this is what you want, you need to be careful when
looking at terminal servers to make sure you get one that can do
it.
Exactly my point... which is why I said " *GENERALLY* terminal
servers aren't the right tool for this", and instead said the data
pbx was. Richard keeps saying 'terminal server', but all he specifies
makes me think he wants the data pbx instead.
9:12 p.m.
In article <00c601c6681a$d7513660$6800a8c0 at HPLAPTOP>,
"Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> writes:
Exactly my point... which is why I said "
*GENERALLY* terminal servers
aren't the right tool for this", and instead said the data pbx was. Richard
keeps saying 'terminal server', but all he specifies makes me think he wants
the data pbx instead.
Reverse console is not something for which I have an immediate need.
Something that gangs up a gaggle of serial devices into TCP/IP traffic
to my VAXserver 4000/300 is something I could use right now :-).
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
8:52 p.m.
In article <200604250319.XAA15005 at Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA>,
der Mouse <mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca> writes:
It would be nice. Don't the DECserver 90 & 700 models do this?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
However, its
my understanding that you could use the terminal server
"in reverse" to connect from the TCP/IP enabled machine to a port on
the terminal server and from there talk to the RS-232 style monitor
port on an older machine like some S-100 bus based machine.
This depends on the terminal server. Some of them do this ("reverse
telnet", I think at least one of them calls it); others don't. If this
is what you want, you need to be careful when looking at terminal
servers to make sure you get one that can do it. 
11:09 a.m.
Richard wrote:
I'm looking to acquire a terminal server so I can
feed all the beasts
simultaneously :-).
Before a couple days ago, I didn't know anything about terminals servers
beyond the fact that they existed, so consider me a n00b.
I see that DEC has had a line of terminal servers. They look like
they would do the job (my needs are more along the lines of
connectivity rather than fancy features like 3270 support).
Reading around on the net indicates that Xylogics had a good line of
terminal servers, but that the similarly named Xyplex had buggy
product.
I'm not fixated on the DEC brand, but it looks like they made lots of
product over the years making them readily available and reasonably
priced.
I'm looking for at least 16 ports, preferably 32 as I've already got
more than 16 terminals :-). Whether those 32 ports come in one box or
two boxes (or even 4 boxes) is not so much a concern to me as is the
total cost of acquisition. Ultimately this could feed into a public
interactive museum space exhibit on timesharing. At the moment I
could connect the following:
- DEC
LA-120
VT-100
VT-278
- Heath/Zenith
Z-19
- Hewlett-Packard
HP1351A
HP2397A
HP2621A
HP2648A (2)
- Honeywell
VIP 7809
- Lear Siegler
ADM-3A
ADM-5 (2)
- Megatek
Whizzard 1645
- Tektronix
4010
4014
4105 (4)
9200T (6)
9201T (8)
- Televideo
925
- Teletype
Model 43
- Texas Instruments
Silent 700 (2)
- Westinghouse
W1643
Total: 39
Now realistically, I don't think it would be fruitfull to connect all
39 terminals in my collection as i) I plan on liquidating some of the
Tektronxi 9200T/9201Ts, one of the Silent 700s only has a modem
interface on the exterior and the Westinghouse doesn't have a keyboard
and has some sort of weird party line interface. However, even if you
factor all of those out of the picture a 32-port server still only
leaves me a few ports open. I'd probably need to get up to 64 line
capacity at some point.
I have an Equinox ELS-48 terminal server, with (originally) 24
MMJ ports. It uses seperate CPU and port-boards. BNC type
ethernet connector. Has room for another port card, if you can
find one.
However, some of the lines (1-4?) are disabled due to a lightning
strike. I got it mostly working again by removing the remains of
the dead interface chip, and several fried filter caps. Never used it
for anything after that "fix", but it tested Ok.
The filter caps should probably be replaced (2 small, 2 larger),
not sure of original value of the larger (value was burnt off).
The interface chip is probably not easily fixed. It charred the
circuit board, and the traces under it (*both* sides of the circuit
board, and probably the internal layers). Several traces are gone
(melted away completely). I think it only knocks out <= 4 lines.
$10 + shipping (from 83401)
Extra is for shipping materials, plus enough pepsi to power me
up enough to reach my UPS shipper.
Suggestions? Currently I've been looking at the
DECserver stuff on
ebay; they seem relatively plentiful and it seems that with patience a
good price could be had. There's a bundle of them on govliq right
now, but the operating condition is unknown.
8:42 p.m.
On Sunday 23 April 2006 14:47, Richard wrote:
I see that DEC has had a line of terminal servers.
They look like
they would do the job (my needs are more along the lines of
connectivity rather than fancy features like 3270 support).
Reading around on the net indicates that Xylogics had a good line of
terminal servers, but that the similarly named Xyplex had buggy
product.
I've never heard anything all that good from people that have used
Xylogics Annex boxes.
At work, we use a whole bunch of Xyplex Maxserver 1640s for console
servers, and they Just Work.. They're a direct descendant of DECservers
(from what I understand, DEC sold off the line to Xyplex).
Pat
--
Purdue University ITAP/RCAC --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
6815
days inactive
6818
days old
20 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
a.carlini＠ntlworld.com -
dave06a＠dunfield.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
kth＠srv.net -
legalize＠xmission.com -
mouse＠Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA -
pat＠computer-refuge.org