----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" <rdd(a)smart.net> To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 2:54 PM Subject: Re: The new VAX is alive! Yes, but you need to load DECnet first as it alters the MAC address, which will upset the IP stack seriously if it loads first. I have used CMUIP and it's so-so, but Process will give you a hobbyist license for Multinet which is way better, and I suspect even UCX (certainly later versions) would be better than CMUIP, which is rather slow at best, and a little broken in places, (so is UCX but in fairness it's both faster and a bit less tricky than CMUIP). But if I had a choice, I'd run Multinet. means need and You need to make sure MOP is enabled on the vax and you need the boot file for the decserver in the right place on the vax so the Terminal server can MOP boot itself. ISTR that the necessary files for DS200 boot are on virtually any VMS software distribution CD set after about 7.x. Hope this helps Geoff in Oz

Recently some discussion of international shipping was going on. Here is my shipping track from a Fedex package I just received from Thailand. Flat rate $15 service. Delivered SANTA ANA CA 07/27/2001 09:01 On FedEx vehicle for delivery SANTA ANA CA 07/27/2001 08:29 Arrived at FedEx Destination Location SANTA ANA CA 07/27/2001 08:13 Arrived at Sort Facility LOS ANGELES CA 07/27/2001 05:32 Left FedEx Sort Facility MEMPHIS TN 07/27/2001 02:20 Left FedEx Sort Facility MEMPHIS TN 07/27/2001 02:14 Package status ANCHORAGE AK 07/26/2001 15:49 Arrived at FedEx Ramp ANCHORAGE AK 07/26/2001 13:31 Left FedEx Sort Facility SUBIC BAY FREEPORT PH 07/26/2001 01:53 Arrived at Sort Facility SUBIC BAY FREEPORT PH 07/26/2001 01:45 Left FedEx Ramp BANGKOK TH 07/25/2001 20:38 Arrived at FedEx Ramp BANGKOK TH 07/25/2001 19:19

At 02:04 PM 7/27/01 -0500, you wrote: Because FedEx sends everything "in" to Memphis and "out" to its destination. This was the basis for their entire concept. If you read the story of how they got started the guy who started them realized the post office (and most shippers) spent way too much time trying to optimally route packages that could just as easily be routed by setting up one routing system from a central point. Thus the routes were all fixed (i.e. to go to San Jose from Memphis goes blip, blip and blip. etc.) and there was no "loss" due to trying to compute n x m ideal routes.

--- Russ Blakeman <rhblake(a)bigfoot.com> wrote: But you get savings at not trying to put two-way routing intellegence at each major nexus. At Cleveland, let's say, all stuff that comes in, goes out on the planes to Memphis early every evening, and stuff to get routed within the Cleveland area arrives later in the evening. No sorting is required at Cleveland to figure out if it goes to Memphis or not. If you multiply this by hundreds of metro areas, the savings is clear. Now... it's possible to insert a minimal level of sorting so you don't ship a package from one Cleveland address to another via Memphis, but if it goes from one metro area to another, routing to a hub is more efficient, even if you pass your destination on the way to the hub. There is a plane from NYC to Memphis and back every night; there is a plane from, Boston to Memphis and back every night; why add a plane from NYC to Boston? You already have four legs that have to be there anyway that will get the package there. It only would become an issue if you could fill a plane, night after night the hub. I think these days, the original concept has been extended to allow for multiple hubs, permitting a much smaller route optimization than solving for m x n, but the concept is still valid. Economically, people will pay more for "absolutely, positively has to be there overnight". The optimization here is for time first, cost second. If the customer could wait, they could choose a lower-priority delivery technique. The Post Office and UPS optimize for cost first, delivery-time second. Different models. Given that FedEx also offers lower priority delivery, they probably aren't filling each and every plane, each and every night with stuff. If they were, there wouldn't be room to stuff the lower priority items in the corners. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Normally I don't chime in with regard to my employer but I may be able to add a little perspective and wouldn't be a good list member if I withheld my knowledge. Of course, I have to make the standard disclaimers. I don't speak for the company. Being on this list you probably correctly guess that I'm in development and not in operations, so my perspective won't be as good as Fred Smith's (the founder). In message <20010727211839.62263.qmail(a)web9501.mail.yahoo.com>om>, Ethan Dicks wri tes: In the beginning of the company, that's exactly what would happen. The most important thing here is that it only go through one hub so that we only have to spend time handling it once (at the hub level). Now if a single facility can handle all your volume, then you get some real economies of scale routing it all through there. This is a very good description. I'd add that the saving of the time of sorting is more of a motivating factor than saving on putting in the intelligence. In fact, we're always looking for ways of applying the information we have about the packages in order to make more intelligent routing decisions. Some of the projects I work on feed into such decision making. We have indeed added a number of additional hubs. It turns out that the necessity that bred this invention was the pragmatism of growth. We simply outgrew the original Memphis hub and ran out of space to expand it. So now say you send a package from Boston. The package will most likely go to a station in the Boston area and be sorted during a window from 6:30 to 9:00 (eastern). Depending on the destination, it is placed into one of several airplane containers which are then trucked to the airport. Those containers are then loaded onto planes headed for the various hubs. The strict sort time is required because (for example) planes must arrive at the Memphis hub by midnight. Now imagine the dance of hundreds of planes all landing during a 2 hour period, several hundred thousand packages removed from the planes, sorted, loaded back onto the planes and then the planes all going out again about 2 hours later. When the packages arrive at the destination airport, they are trucked and sorted onto courier trucks for delivery commitments of 8, 10:30 and 4:30. Then we wait until the next batch of packages comes along. To a first approximation, we go out of business every day at 10:30 at are back in business about when most businesses are closing for the day. This is pretty much the same regardless of where the destination city lies. Sure these days something going from Boston to New York is more likely to go through our Newark hub than our Memphis one. And yes, we do save some money that way, but milage isn't as big a factor in cost as you might think and that savings gets balanced against the cost of operating another hub facility. That was a lot of the motivation for our purchase of RPS which is now FedEx Ground (the one with the green logo). They have an excellent cost model and provide as much service as they can within that. We certainly wish we could fill all the planes every night. You can all help with that by shipping everything by FedEx :-) One message also mentioned the company's compensation structure. I certainly can't speak to that of the pilots and couriers that were mentioned. It's true that FedEx doesn't pay developers as much as you would likely get in Silicon Valley or probably even the Research Triangle in North Carolina. But the company recognizes this and has been working to improve the situation. The company also has a strong history of treating its people well. I was quite ill about a year and a half ago. They told me to take whatever time was necessary and were very supportive during the whole thing. My director even told me of an employee that they had flown overseas for experimental treatments a few years earlier. Brian L. Stuart Chief Engineer, FedEx Services

And they get the economy of scale... EVERY package from SJ goes to the same place, and EVERY package to DEN goes the same way. They don't worry about a single package that needs to go from SJ to DEN... Clint On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: ALL Fedex goes throught their "central" sort facility. If you fedex a packet to your neighbor, it still has to go there. My only complaint with Fedex is their algorithm for what to do with late packages. Since their primary metric is the NUMBER of packeages on time, NOT how late they are, ... Once a package is late, it will then not be processed until AFTER every package that is still on-time! Thus, instead of a late package delaying and making another package late, the late one may be delayed multiple additional days in order to not mess up their numbers! IOW, if packages ABCDEFGHIJK are sent sequntially, and B is late, rather than have CDEFGHIJK all be a little late, they will then be delivered ACDEFGHIJKB. Almost all of their packages are on time. The late one may be VERY late. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com

On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: I think service guarantees are the reason behind their sequencing scheme. Broken guarantees cost them money. Once package B is late, its guarantee is broken, and nothing's going to change that. Letting B delay CDEFGHIJK would mean many more broken guarantees. Putting B off until the end (assuming CDEFGHIJK arrive on time) results in only one broken guarantee. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss(a)subatomix.com

At 12:15 AM 7/29/01 -0400, Jerome Fine wrote: For a trade show, we'd carefully plan the arrival day for all our packages, so as to avoid extra "drayage" charges from the convention hall's union, who would charge $150 *per day* that anything had to be moved from the dock to your booth. Size made no difference. FedEx once delivered a single mailing tube one day early, and the union goons wanted $150 for me to get it out of hock. - John

That's why the last company I worked for had a single person go ahead of everything and had a stoage unit setup that he/she would store things until the setup day - no delivery direct to the convention center at all so no idiotic charges. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust -> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 5:04 PM -> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Example of Fedex Intl shipping -> -> -> At 12:15 AM 7/29/01 -0400, Jerome Fine wrote: -> >First, I was told that FedEx will often delay shipments if they -> >are found to be arriving too soon (1 day instead of 2 days) -> -> For a trade show, we'd carefully plan the arrival day for -> all our packages, so as to avoid extra "drayage" charges from -> the convention hall's union, who would charge $150 *per day* -> that anything had to be moved from the dock to your booth. -> -> Size made no difference. FedEx once delivered a single -> mailing tube one day early, and the union goons wanted -> $150 for me to get it out of hock. -> -> - John ->

I ship probably 15-20 packages a week, and recieve probably 6 a week - by UPS - and have never seen a misroute like this except one package that the shipping party had left an old sticker ont he box on one side and the sticker to me on the other and until someone manually pulled the package (and blacked out the old sticker/barcode)it bounced between Pallatine IL and Lexington Ky. Needless to say UPS refunded the shipper's payment even though it was the shipper's fault (it was 2 day air and took 6 days with all the bouncing). I just recieved one from Maine and it went to NY, then Louisville KY, then Bowling Green KY, then to me. Took 2 days regular UPS ground. One I sent to Hawaii took 3 days but of course had to go air shipment - USPS "priority" for a similar item to the same island took 8 days. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of GT -> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 8:40 PM -> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Example of Fedex Intl shipping -> -> -> Here is my package's route from Amazon by UPS. -> -> Thank you UPS! -> -> Status: DELIVERY -> Shipment Date: Jun 27, 2001 -> Location/Signee: GUARD -> Destination: CHERRY HILL , NJ , US -> -> Date Time Location Service Area Checkpoint Details -> -> ----------------------------------------------------------------- -> ----------- -> ---- -> -> Jul 11, 2001 11:11:00 AM LAWNSIDE-PENNSAUKEN , NJ , US DELIVERY -> Jul 10, 2001 12:01:00 PM MEADOWLANDS , NJ , US UNLOAD SCAN -> Jul 10, 2001 03:10:00 AM MEADOWLANDS , NJ , US ARRIVAL SCAN -> Jul 05, 2001 09:14:00 PM LENEXA , KS , US DEPARTURE SCAN -> Jul 05, 2001 08:35:37 PM LENEXA , KS , US LOCATION SCAN -> Jul 04, 2001 02:40:00 AM DENVER , CO , US UNLOAD SCAN -> Jul 04, 2001 12:47:00 AM DENVER , CO , US ARRIVAL SCAN -> Jul 02, 2001 11:49:00 AM CACH , IL , US DEPARTURE SCAN -> Jul 02, 2001 12:38:00 AM CACH , IL , US ARRIVAL SCAN -> Jun 29, 2001 03:47:00 AM WILLOW GROVE , PA , US DEPARTURE SCAN -> Jun 29, 2001 03:02:46 AM WILLOW GROVE , PA , US LOCATION SCAN -> Jun 29, 2001 01:32:00 AM WILLOW GROVE , PA , US UNLOAD SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 10:35:00 PM WILLOW GROVE , PA , US ARRIVAL SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 09:44:00 PM PHILA AIR HUB , PA , US DEPARTURE SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 07:58:00 PM PHILA AIR HUB , PA , US ARRIVAL SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 05:23:00 PM BURTONSVILLE , MD , US DEPARTURE SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 03:33:00 PM BURTONSVILLE , MD , US ARRIVAL SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 11:55:00 AM STAUNTON , VA , US DEPARTURE SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 10:50:00 AM STAUNTON , VA , US ARRIVAL SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 06:12:00 AM CHARLESTON , WV , US DEPARTURE SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 05:51:00 AM CHARLESTON , WV , US ARRIVAL SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 01:20:00 AM LEXINGTON , KY , US DEPARTURE SCAN -> Jun 27, 2001 03:32:51 PM LEXINGTON , KY , US ORIGIN SCAN -> Jun 27, 2001 11:24:53 AM LEXINGTON , KY , US PICKUP -> MANIFEST RECEIVED -> -> -> -> -> ----- Original Message ----- -> From: "Russ Blakeman" <rhblake(a)bigfoot.com> -> To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> -> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 3:04 PM -> Subject: RE: Example of Fedex Intl shipping -> -> -> > Why did it go from Alaska to Tennesse to California? Someone -> else picks up -> > the tab when these things are routed the Delta Airlines way. I -> mean Delta -> in -> > that my mom-in-law got a ticket from Phoenix to Louisville - went from -> > Phoenix to LAX (Los Angeles) to Miami, to Louisville. Southwest ran the -> same -> > time, was $35 cheaper and went from Phoenix to DFW (Dallas) to -> Lousiville - -> > 4 hours less flying too and just the one stop in DFW of 12 -> mins as opposed -> > to switching planes in LAX, waiting 35 mins, then to Miami, -> switching with -> a -> > 1 hour wait, and off to Louisville. -> > -> > -> -----Original Message----- -> > -> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org -> > -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford -> > -> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 1:25 PM -> > -> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org -> > -> Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping -> > -> -> > -> -> > -> Recently some discussion of international shipping was going on. -> > -> Here is my -> > -> shipping track from a Fedex package I just received from -> Thailand. Flat -> > -> rate $15 service. -> > -> -> > -> Delivered SANTA ANA CA 07/27/2001 09:01 -> > -> On FedEx vehicle for delivery SANTA ANA CA 07/27/2001 08:29 -> > -> Arrived at FedEx Destination Location SANTA ANA CA 07/27/2001 08:13 -> > -> Arrived at Sort Facility LOS ANGELES CA 07/27/2001 05:32 -> > -> Left FedEx Sort Facility MEMPHIS TN 07/27/2001 02:20 -> > -> Left FedEx Sort Facility MEMPHIS TN 07/27/2001 02:14 -> > -> Package status ANCHORAGE AK 07/26/2001 15:49 -> > -> Arrived at FedEx Ramp ANCHORAGE AK 07/26/2001 13:31 -> > -> Left FedEx Sort Facility SUBIC BAY FREEPORT PH 07/26/2001 01:53 -> > -> Arrived at Sort Facility SUBIC BAY FREEPORT PH 07/26/2001 01:45 -> > -> Left FedEx Ramp BANGKOK TH 07/25/2001 20:38 -> > -> Arrived at FedEx Ramp BANGKOK TH 07/25/2001 19:19 -> > -> -> > -> -> > -> > -> -> -> NetZero Platinum -> No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access -> Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! -> http://www.netzero.net

My package was a pre metered Fedex envelope with $192 of spinel gemstones, Fedex intl priority, and it was claimed to me here in 2 to 3 days. Looks like it skipped through customs without a squeak. It had a ziplock bag on the front though with all the docs etc. I don't see how from the distance etc. they could hope to beat the 36 hour transit time I had though.

Is this one with patched ROMs to use SCSI disks? Otherwise all it will probably talk to is the braindamaged TK50Z (I think it's the -FA varient). As for the question of weather or not there would be an advantage to moving up to V7.2 or higher, I'm really not sure. It largely depends on what you wish to do with the machine. I keep one system at V5.5 for software builds, as software built on V5.5 will in most cases run on all higher versions of OpenVMS. If you've got more than 16MB of RAM, and you're wanting to learn OpenVMS, then I'd say install V7.2 at this time, and once V7.3 has had more time to mature, you might want to move to it. In my case I'm using my main OpenVMS machine as a SMTP server, Samba server, Appletalk Server, NFS server, etc. So, for me running the current version of the OS, and the latest TCPIP stack is a good thing. Unfortunatly this is something I'm not able to offer suggestions on, I've still not figured out how to boot my 200, mainly thanks to lack of time :^( Another choice would be an early Alpha, such as one of the DEC 3000's, or an AlphaStation 200. The cheapest is probably a older VS3100. Zane

R. D. Davis wrote: Nice... wish I had a copy of Ultrix for the VAXstaton 3100 M38 here. It's got 32mb of memory and a DEC DSP3105 (RZ27? 1.05gb) as the boot disk and 100mb as a second disk. It's got dual SCSI busses and the 8 plane color graphics option which I'm driving a DEC mono monitor. (VR265?). The hobbyist version has a ton of layered products and the security on 7.2 seems pretty good compared with 5.5. It is a lot bigger and slower than 11/780's running 3.6 -- I can tell you. But I've got DECnet, TCP/IP and all the languages getting loaded right now. I've also got another VAXstation 3100 M38 with 16mb I'd be looking to part with soon -- but the ethernet switch between thick and thin net is cracked and half missing. If anyone's interested in it let me know... Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org

Warning, the VS2000's, just like the MicroVAX II's require a special serial cable. You'll need to look at the VMS FAQ to learn how to wire the cable. http://eisner.decus.org/vms/faq.htm (note, this URL works, but who knows for how long) You'll need to check the version, and see if it supports a VS3100 M38. However, what I'd recommed for both of you is NetBSD (well at least for the DECstation, for a VAX I always recommend VMS first). I've found that as long as you don't load DECwindows on a MicroVAX II class machine with 16MB, it isn't to bad. However, I only loaded DECnet on that system, so I can't comment on how bad TCP/IP might make things. In fact come to think of it the slowest machine I've loaded V7.2 and TCPIP is a VS4000/VLC. This sounds like the perfect solution to your VAX 4000/200 problem! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 UberTechnoid(a)Home.com wrote: That, I want! :-) Of course, I don't have a huge amount of memory in the VAX, so perhaps I'd be better off just staying with what I have. While I've joined DECUS, I've not ordered the OpenVMS CD-ROM yet since I have no way of reading the CD-ROM since I don't have a SCSI card in my VAX; I'm going to have to find a VAXstation to use for reading a CD-ROM and then figure out how to get the files from the VAXstation to the VAX (can I do this over DECnet?). Also, I should get a tape drive installed as well for backups, as this VAX is missing both a tape drive and the mounting hardware for the tape drive... the drive itself is no problem, as I have one of those; just need to find the TKQ50 and the mounting hardware. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd(a)rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.