26 Mar
2012
26 Mar
'12
11:33 a.m.
hello all,
yesterday my wife and I emptied our garage(25 years of diverse things
stocked inside).I found again my hp1000,I saw a vax8200,a a lot of things
that suddenly made me rich :-))etc...and I
found something I had totally forgotten ,bought a long time ago as a part of
lot bought at the near army base:a Tektronix microprocessor emulation
system,made of two (big!!!) racks a 8510 and a 8310.I opened them just to
see ,and immediately I saw the two purple dec handles in the 8510....
A lsi 11/2 was here.I brought the rack inside ,removed the dust and spiders,
connected to the terminal line labeled 'auxilliary' a VT320 and powered it
up,after a few tests,I found the correct speed (2400 bauds) and got the odt,
using the run/halt switch of the front panel.
I has 32k of ram,the console is at correct place,but the fdc is not at
177170,so I doubt it can boot standart rt11.Unfortunately I found an error
in the memory:bit 9 of the first 16k bank is stucked to 1,it may be only a
ram chip (4116)to change,the 2nd bank is correct,a few test programs were
ok.
So if you see such a machine it can be useful.
I'd like to find maintenance informations about the Tektronix boards.
I'try to repair the mem board,and will continue to play with it.
Best regards to all.
Alain Nierveze
492 all?e Montesquieu
33290 Le Pian Medoc
France
nierveze at radio-astronomie.com
www.radio-astronomie.com
27 Mar
27 Mar
12:46 p.m.
hello all,
yesterday my wife and I emptied our garage(25 years of diverse things=20
I hope most of it went abck i nthe garage (or in other suitable
accomodation). It sounds like you haev some intersting machiens.
stocked inside).I found again my hp1000,I saw a
vax8200,a a lot of things=
=20
that suddenly made me rich :-))etc...and I
found something I had totally forgotten ,bought a long time ago as a part=
of=20
lot bought at the near army base:a Tektronix microprocessor emulation=20
system,made of two (big!!!) racks a 8510 and a 8310.I opened them just to=
=20
see ,and immediately I saw the two purple dec handles in the 8510....
A lsi 11/2 was here.I brought the rack inside ,removed the dust and spide=
rs,
connected to the terminal line labeled 'auxilliary' a VT320 and powered i=
t=20
up,after a few tests,I found the correct speed (2400 bauds) and got the o=
dt,
using the run/halt switch of the front panel.
I has 32k of ram,the console is at correct place,but the fdc is not at=20
177170,so I doubt it can boot standart rt11.Unfortunately I found an erro=
r=20
in the memory:bit 9 of the first 16k bank is stucked to 1,it may be only =
a=20
ram chip (4116)to change,the 2nd bank is correct,a few test programs were=
=20
ok.
So if you see such a machine it can be useful.
I ahve 2 such systems, I forget the model numbers. The filestore unit of
one has 2 floppy drives and an 11/03 processor board. The filestore of
the other has one floppy drive, one (Micropolis 1200-series) winchester,
and an 11/23 CPU.
The former runs something claled TekDOS, which is possibly modified RT11.
The later runs TNIX which is essentially unix.
I'd like to find maintenance informations about
the Tektronix boards.
So would I... I am sure schematics, etc were avaiable at one point, but
I've never seen them. I would be possible to reverse-engineer it (after
all, you know the pinotus of the CPU board connector so you could fidn
the bus signals o nthe Tektronix boards...) but it would be a lot of
work. Maybe one day...
I'try to repair the mem board,and will continue to
play with it.
-tony
1:28 p.m.
On Tue, 27 Mar 2012, Tony Duell wrote:
I can only assume that you type with your nose. It's the only thing that
would explain that mess. Either that or you've got the equivalent to
a 2400 baud brain running 110 baud fingers. :)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a
server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck.
[Cipher in a.s.r]
hello all,
yesterday my wife and I emptied our garage(25 years of diverse things=20
I hope most of it went abck i nthe garage (or in other suitable
accomodation). It sounds like you haev some intersting machiens.
2:14 p.m.
At 03:28 PM 3/27/2012, Gene Buckle wrote:
I can only assume that you type with your nose.
It's the only thing that would explain that mess. Either that or you've got the
equivalent to a 2400 baud brain running 110 baud fingers. :)
I always assumed something more colorful, like Tony heads to the pub
every afternoon and then comes back to type here.
- John
3:05 p.m.
I consider myself to have a good sense of humor, and when I say I can
type six words a minute with only ten typos, I'm not kidding. It is
very difficult for me to type, even more so after my last surgery in
January, and takes a lot of effort to correct errors. I was almost to
the point of using my nose. Please keep in mind that there are a lot
of people out there (and I'm sure more on this list) that do have
serious limitations and disabilities. I expect to see comments on
technical issues here, but not on something like typing skills.
Paul
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 4:14 PM, John Foust <jfoust at threedee.com> wrote:
At 03:28 PM 3/27/2012, Gene Buckle wrote:
I can only assume that you type with your nose.
?It's the only thing that would explain that mess. ?Either that or you've got the
equivalent to a 2400 baud brain running 110 baud fingers. :)
I always assumed something more colorful, like Tony heads to the pub
every afternoon and then comes back to type here.
- John
3:23 p.m.
On Tue, 27 Mar 2012, John Foust wrote:
At 03:28 PM 3/27/2012, Gene Buckle wrote:
Now that's an equally plausible theory!
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a
server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck.
[Cipher in a.s.r]
I can only assume that you type with your nose.
It's the only thing that would explain that mess. Either that or you've got the
equivalent to a 2400 baud brain running 110 baud fingers. :)
I always assumed something more colorful, like Tony heads to the pub
every afternoon and then comes back to type here.
4:10 p.m.
Is that suppose to be funny?
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Gene Buckle <geneb at deltasoft.com> wrote:
On Tue, 27 Mar 2012, John Foust wrote:
At 03:28 PM 3/27/2012, Gene Buckle wrote:
Now that's an equally plausible theory!
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. ?Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a
server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck.
[Cipher in a.s.r]
I can only assume that you type with your nose. ?It's the only thing that
would explain that mess. ?Either that or you've got the equivalent to a 2400
baud brain running 110 baud fingers. :)
I always assumed something more colorful, like Tony heads to the pub
every afternoon and then comes back to type here.
5:04 p.m.
On Tue, 27 Mar 2012, Paul Anderson wrote:
Is that suppose to be funny?
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Gene Buckle <geneb at deltasoft.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Mar 2012, John Foust wrote:
>
>> At 03:28 PM 3/27/2012, Gene Buckle wrote:
>>>
>>> I can only assume that you type with your nose. ?It's the only thing
that
>>> would explain that mess. ?Either that or you've got the equivalent to a
2400
>>> baud brain running 110 baud fingers. :)
>>
>>
>>
>> I always assumed something more colorful, like Tony heads to the pub
>> every afternoon and then comes back to type here.
>>
> Now that's an equally plausible theory!
>
>
Yes. Also, quit top posting.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a
server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck.
[Cipher in a.s.r]
28 Mar
28 Mar
12:45 p.m.
I always
assumed something more colorful, like Tony heads to the pub
every afternoon and then comes back to type here.
Now that's an equally plausible theory! 
2:47 p.m.
On 28 Mar 2012 at 20:45, Tony Duell wrote:
FWIW, the only alcohol that is used in significant
quantities here is
CH_3.CHOH CH_3, and I certainly don't drink that.
Oh, there are other plentiful alcohols--how about lanolin on toast?
You do have sheep over there in Blighty, don't you?
:)
--Chuck
29 Mar
29 Mar
11:57 a.m.
On 28 Mar 2012 at 20:45, Tony Duell wrote:
Oh yes, we have sheep... I even once saw some genius try to take one on a
London Omnibus (no, I don't mean a toy sheep, I mean a real one).
But by 'here' I meantt this house, not England or the UK. And I don't
personally keep sheep.
OK, I am also sure there are plenty of other organinc substances around
where which include an -OH group and thuys are techncially alcohols.
Doubtless some are in foods that are not normally considered 'alcoholic'.
Which has just suggestesd a totally OT queestion to me. Some cultures
prohibit the drinking of alcohol. This is normally taken to mean drinks
containing ethanol. But how do they handle other -OH molecules in foods?
-tony
FWIW, the only alcohol that is used in
significant quantities here is
CH_3.CHOH CH_3, and I certainly don't drink that.
Oh, there are other plentiful alcohols--how about lanolin on toast?
You do have sheep over there in Blighty, don't you? 
5:19 p.m.
New subject: Religion API - Re: another hidden pdp11
On 29/03/12 2:57 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
This is a simple versioning problem. The Religion API, being a few
thousand years old, is simply incompatible with newer clients speaking
the Science protocol.
One needs to upgrade, or the other needs to downgrade, assuming that the
hardware is not too new to run TribalOS 1.0.
--Toby
On 28 Mar 2012 at 20:45, Tony Duell wrote:
Oh yes, we have sheep... I even once saw some genius try to take one on a
London Omnibus (no, I don't mean a toy sheep, I mean a real one).
But by 'here' I meantt this house, not England or the UK. And I don't
personally keep sheep.
OK, I am also sure there are plenty of other organinc substances around
where which include an -OH group and thuys are techncially alcohols.
Doubtless some are in foods that are not normally considered 'alcoholic'.
Which has just suggestesd a totally OT queestion to me. Some cultures
prohibit the drinking of alcohol. This is normally taken to mean drinks
containing ethanol. But how do they handle other -OH molecules in foods?
FWIW, the only alcohol that is used in
significant quantities here is
CH_3.CHOH CH_3, and I certainly don't drink that.
Oh, there are other plentiful alcohols--how about lanolin on toast?
You do have sheep over there in Blighty, don't you? -tony
7:23 p.m.
New subject: Religion API - Re: another hidden pdp11
On 29 Mar 2012, at 5:19 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
This is a simple versioning problem. The Religion API,
being a few thousand years old, is simply incompatible with newer clients speaking the
Science protocol.
One needs to upgrade, or the other needs to downgrade, assuming that the hardware is not
too new to run TribalOS 1.0.
Tea -> monitor.
--
Dr. Christian Kennedy
chris at mainecoon.com AF6AP
http://www.mainecoon.com PGP KeyID 108DAB97
PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97
"Mr. McKittrick, after careful consideration..."
7:50 p.m.
New subject: Religion API - Re: another hidden pdp11
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Christian Kennedy
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 7:24 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Religion API - Re: another hidden pdp11
On 29 Mar 2012, at 5:19 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
Not sure I agree there's an insurmountable problem. I've found that running the
Rational Shim between the two can avoid general emotional protection faults, core belief
dumps and other serious issues. The Rational Shim filters the interface so that issues
fundamentally premised on belief (aka faith) are not submitted to positivist interfaces,
which typically results in unresolvable conflicts such as infinite social recursion. The
Science protocol continues to address the problem domain for which it is best suited. Hm,
how many wars could have been avoided if the Rational Shim had been more broadly adopted?
-- Ian
This is a simple versioning problem. The Religion
API, being a few thousand
years old, is simply incompatible with newer clients
speaking the Science
protocol.
One needs to upgrade, or the other needs to downgrade, assuming that
the hardware
is not too new to run TribalOS 1.0.
30 Mar
30 Mar
9:22 a.m.
New subject: Ethanol in the diet [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
OK, I am also sure there are plenty of other organinc
substances
around where which include an -OH group and thuys are techncially
alcohols.
Not everything with a hydroxyl group is considered an alcohol, even by
chemists. Alkali metal hydroxides, for example. Or water. Or sugars.
Or even phenol, though that's getting a bit more borderline.
Which has just suggestesd a totally OT queestion to
me. Some
cultures prohibit the drinking of alcohol. This is normally taken to
mean drinks containing ethanol. But how do they handle other -OH
molecules in foods?
I feel reasonably sure the answer is "they ignore them"; certainly in
the few cases I can answer confidently it is. Such prohibitions often
(usually?) are actually aimed at intoxication, by way of intoxicants;
equating that with the presence of ethanol leads to errors in both
directions. (Of course, how much people care about those errors
varies.)
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
9:46 a.m.
New subject: Ethanol in the diet [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
On 30 Mar 2012 at 12:22, Mouse wrote:
I feel reasonably sure the answer is "they ignore
them"; certainly in
the few cases I can answer confidently it is. Such prohibitions often
(usually?) are actually aimed at intoxication, by way of intoxicants;
equating that with the presence of ethanol leads to errors in both
directions. (Of course, how much people care about those errors
varies.)
Like everything else, the devil's in the details. Even your most
hard-core Mormon will probably enjoy a cool drink of ginger ale or
root beer (if fermented, probably about 0.5 percent alcohol). Do any
other fermented foods, such as sauerkraut contain alcohol in traces?
And how far do you have to genetically engineer a pig before it's not
a pig?
--Chuck
1 Apr
1 Apr
7:43 p.m.
New subject: Ethanol in the diet [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
In article <4F7580D8.1936.51AEA5 at cclist.sydex.com>,
"Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> writes:
Like everything else, the devil's in the details.
Even your most
hard-core Mormon will probably enjoy a cool drink of ginger ale or
root beer [...]
...or use mouth wash. Most mouth wash is alcohol by volume.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 version available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
3 Apr
3 Apr
6:50 a.m.
New subject: Ethanol in the diet [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Like everything else, the devil's in the details.
Even your most
hard-core Mormon will probably enjoy a cool drink of ginger ale or
root beer (if fermented, probably about 0.5 percent alcohol). Do any
other fermented foods, such as sauerkraut contain alcohol in traces?
Bread has alcohol in it. It's in a high enough concentration that you
can smell it, usually.
Peace... Sridhar
30 Mar
30 Mar
10:06 a.m.
New subject: Ethanol in the diet [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
From: Mouse
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 9:22 AM
> OK, I am also sure there are plenty of other
organinc substances
> around where which include an -OH group and thuys are techncially
> alcohols.
Not everything with a hydroxyl group is considered an
alcohol, even by
chemists. Alkali metal hydroxides, for example. Or water. Or sugars.
Or even phenol, though that's getting a bit more borderline.
Yes, I thought that was odd when I read it yesterday. Isn't an alcohol
defined by "-COOH"? ($DEITY, organic chemistry was 40+ years ago, and
just for fun.)
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Vulcan, Inc.
505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900
Seattle, WA 98104
mailto:RichA at vulcan.com
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
10:12 a.m.
New subject: Ethanol in the diet [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
Not everything
with a hydroxyl group is considered an alcohol, even by
chemists. Alkali metal hydroxides, for example. Or water. Or sugars.
Or even phenol, though that's getting a bit more borderline.
Yes, I thought that was odd when I read it yesterday. Isn't an alcohol
defined by "-COOH"? ($DEITY, organic chemistry was 40+ years ago, and
just for fun.)
10:29 a.m.
New subject: Ethanol in the diet [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
Not everything with a hydroxyl group is considered an
alcohol, even by
chemists. Alkali metal hydroxides, for example. Or water. Or sugars.
Or even phenol, though that's getting a bit more borderline.
Yes, I thought that was odd when I read it yesterday. Isn't an alcohol
defined by "-COOH"? ($DEITY, organic chemistry was 40+ years ago, and
just for fun.)
11:21 a.m.
New subject: Ethanol in the diet [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
-COOH is an organic acid. COOH is formic acid;
Well, HCOOH; if you're going to write the one H you really should write
the other.
CH3COOH is acetic acid
Indeed it is. The series goes on, of course, though the names are
irregular up to higher sizes than most carbon-chain series: formic,
acetic, propionic, butyric, valeric, caproic, enanthic, caprylic,
pelargonic, capric, undecylic, lauric, tridecylic, myristic,
pentadecanoic, palmitic, margaric, stearic, arachidic....
and C00h is 3072.
There is that. :)
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
12:56 p.m.
New subject: Ethanol in the diet [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
Not
everything with a hydroxyl group is considered an alcohol, even by
chemists. Alkali metal hydroxides, for example. Or water. Or sugars.
Or even phenol, though that's getting a bit more borderline.
Yes, I thought that was odd when I read it yesterday. Isn't an alcohol
defined by "-COOH"? ($DEITY, organic chemistry was 40+ years ago, and
just for fun.) C00h is 3072.
GROAN!
-tony
1:51 p.m.
New subject: Ethanol in the diet [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
-COOH is an
organic acid. COOH is formic acid; CH3COOH is acetic acid and
Don't you mean HCOOH is formic (methanoic) acid? C00h is 3072.
GROAN! 
10:21 a.m.
New subject: Ethanol in the diet [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
Not everything
with a hydroxyl group is considered an alcohol, even by
chemists...
Yes, I thought that was odd when I read it yesterday. ?Isn't an alcohol
defined by "-COOH"? ?($DEITY, organic chemistry was 40+ years ago, and
just for fun.)
10:22 a.m.
New subject: Ethanol in the diet [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
Yes, I thought that was odd when I read it yesterday.
Isn't an
alcohol defined by "-COOH"?
No.
Ethanol, for example, is CH3-CH2-OH. -COOH is a carboxyl group, at
least assuming you mean -(C=O)-OH, which is usually what -COOH means.
($DEITY, organic chemistry was 40+ years ago, and just
for fun.)
Mine was more like 35 years ago, but yes, it was great fun.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
12:53 p.m.
New subject: Ethanol in the diet [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
OK, I am also sure there are plenty of other
organic substances
around where which include an -OH group and thuys are techncially
alcohols.
Not everything with a hydroxyl group is considered an alcohol, even by
chemists. Alkali metal hydroxides, for example. Or water. Or sugars.
Or even phenol, though that's getting a bit more borderline. Which has just suggestesd a totally OT queestion
to me. Some
cultures prohibit the drinking of alcohol. This is normally taken to
mean drinks containing ethanol. But how do they handle other -OH
molecules in foods?
I feel reasonably sure the answer is "they ignore them"; certainly in
the few cases I can answer confidently it is. Such prohibitions often
(usually?) are actually aimed at intoxication, by way of intoxicants;
equating that with the presence of ethanol leads to errors in both
directions. (Of course, how much people care about those errors
varies.)
5:33 p.m.
New subject: Ethanol in the diet [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
Not everything
with a hydroxyl group is considered an alcohol, even
by chemists. Alkali metal hydroxides, for example. Or water. Or
sugars. Or even phenol, [...]
I did state 'organic substances', and I
meant that in the chemicla
sense. That rules out metalic hydroxides (why only thoseo f alkali
metals? Surely you don't class calcium hydroxide as an alcohol),
water, and the like. I feel
reasonably sure the answer is "they ignore them"; certainly
in the few cases I can answer confidently it is. Such prohibitions
often (usually?) are actually aimed at intoxication, by way of
intoxicants; [...]
Yes, I thought as much... Why does 'Is electricity
fire' from SYJMF
keep running through my mind?
31 Mar
31 Mar
11:41 a.m.
New subject: Ethanol in the diet [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
True. (Why the alkali metals? Because those are the
only ones I was
certain formed stable hydroxides. My inorganic chemistry is not what
The alkaline earth metals (magnesium, calcium, etc) do as well, I think.
I don;t know if tehr metals do off the top of my head.
it could be.) But there are lots of organic compounds
with hydroxyls
which aren't alcohols in any meaningful sense, such as sugars or, yes,
Sure.
OK, let me re-state the original question.
There are many organic compounds that are classed as alcohols. Some of
them are found in food. DO cultures that prohibit 'alcohol' only prohibit
ethanol, or do then prohibit these too?
the carboxylic acids. (I was wandering around
wikipedia and stumbled
across mellitic acid. Fascinating compound.)
IIRC, that's a benzene rign with a caboxylic acid group on each carhon.
If I am right, there's soemthing even stranger, mellitic anhydride. You
take the above molecule and eleimite 3 molecules of water from it (to
over-simplify things). Ther result is a benzene ring with a C=O on each
location, and those are pairwise joind by further oxygen atoms. The
result reacts violently with water, which is hardly suprising.
The oddity is that the formula for it is C_12 O_9 . In other words,
carbon and oxygen only. Is this a legitimate oxide of carbon? If so, is
it organic (oxides of carbon like CO and CO_2 are normally taken to be
inorganic).
As ever, when you think you have a classification for things, there are
borderline cases :-)
Yes, I thought
as much... Why does 'Is electricity fire' from SYJMF
keep running through my mind?
I was thinking much the same thing, only less formalized. (In
particular, I didn't recall the source of the story.)
1:39 p.m.
New subject: Ethanol in the diet [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
the carboxylic
acids. (I was wandering around wikipedia and
stumbled across mellitic acid. Fascinating compound.)
IIRC, that's a benzene
rign with a caboxylic acid group on each
carhon. If I am right, there's soemthing even stranger,
mellitic anhydride.
Wikipedia had a link to that, too. I didn't follow it.
It occurs to me that there's another potential way of constructing
anhydrides of mellitic acid: linking multiple molecules together by
dehydrating a pair of carboxyls on different rings. Carried to its
logical conclusion, this becomes a way of polymerizing mellitic acid.
I haven't thought enough about steric strain issues, but it would be
really neat to build a sheet of benzene rings linked together into a
triangular mesh with carboxyl-anhydride links.
[It] reacts violently with water, which is hardly
suprising.
Indeed. The above polymer, if it can be constructed, probably at least
as much so. (I suspect it quite possibly will decompose to ordinary
mellitic anhydride, perhaps even so much so that it is impossible to
prepare the polymer....) This begins to remind me of _Ignition_.
The oddity is that the formula for it is C_12 O_9 . In
other words,
carbon and oxygen only. Is this a legitimate oxide of carbon?
Probably about as much so as mellitic acid is an alcohol. :)
Wikipedia's mellitic anhydride page calls it one and has a list of many
other "exotic" C_nO_m compounds, such as carbon suboxide (C3O2).
On the other hand, an oxide of carbon that `burns' (reacts violently
and exothermically) with water is a somewhat disturbing concept.
If so, is it organic (oxides of carbon like CO and
CO_2 are normally
taken to be inorganic).
With a benzene ring in the middle of it? I would class it so, FWTMBW.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
2:22 p.m.
On 03/28/2012 03:31 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
Badness. Best wishes for your father.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
I always
assumed something more colorful, like Tony heads to the pub
every afternoon and then comes back to type here.
s/pub/hospital/
No, not treatment for me. My father was taken very ill last week, I am
visiting him every day, and hoping for the best...
29 Mar
29 Mar
11:53 a.m.
No, not
treatment for me. My father was taken very ill last week, I am
visiting him every day, and hoping for the best...
Badness. Best wishes for your father. 
1:21 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell
Sent: 29 March 2012 19:54
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: another hidden pdp11
Thank you... It appears the infection is being killed off, and that he is
improving. I hope it continues...
-tony
Glad to hear that your father seems to be on the road to recovery.
Regards
Rob
No, not
treatment for me. My father was taken very ill last week, I
am visiting him every day, and hoping for the best...
Badness. Best wishes for your father. 
28 Mar
28 Mar
6:27 p.m.
New subject: S/390 in Aurora, CO. Public Surplus Auction
This is kind of cool. No bidders with with a few hours left. If it was
only closer.
http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=695038
That vintage right ? It's hard to tell anymore.
6:54 p.m.
New subject: S/390 in Aurora, CO. Public Surplus Auction
At 6:27 PM -0700 3/28/12, mc68010 wrote:
This is kind of cool. No bidders with with a few hours
left. If it
was only closer.
http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=695038
That vintage right ? It's hard to tell anymore.
No hard drives, no software.
I think it's vintage, as in early 90's, but not sure. My experience
with IBM gear is nearly non-existant.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Photographer |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| My flickr Photostream |
| http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |
10:49 p.m.
New subject: Multiprise 3000, was Re: S/390 in Aurora, CO. Public Surplus Auction
On 03/28/2012 09:54 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
At 6:27 PM -0700 3/28/12, mc68010 wrote:
...neither of which are impossible to find. Tough, but not impossible.
This is kind of cool. No bidders with with a few
hours left. If it was
only closer.
http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=695038
That vintage right ? It's hard to tell anymore.
No hard drives, no software. I think it's vintage, as in early 90's, but
not sure. My experience with
IBM gear is nearly non-existant.
This is an IBM Multiprise 3000, which made its debut in, I think,
2000 or so. It's basically an S/390 G5 (no connection to the PowerPC
processor of the same name) with a scaled-down I/O subsystem. It can be
either uniprocessor or dual. They're really nice machines, very compact
for a real mainframe, and quite fast as long as you don't do extremely
heavy I/O...basically it's got the same I/O as the rest of the computing
world, which is wimpy and puny when compared to real mainframes. These
machines are well-suited for S/390 software development for this reason.
They're popping up everywhere nowadays due to the IBM mainframe world
having gone 64-bit several years ago, and the subsequent de-supporting
of the 31-bit stuff. (no I didn't mean "32" ;))
I have one of these machines, and I think I have at least 99% of
what's required to bring it up, including some of the very hard-to-find
software and documentation, but I've not yet spent the time to attack
it. If anyone can help with that, please contact me privately. This is
something I want very much to be able to do.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
29 Mar
29 Mar
5:40 a.m.
New subject: Multiprise 3000, was Re: S/390 in Aurora, CO. Public Surplus Auction
tor 2012-03-29 klockan 01:49 -0400 skrev Dave McGuire:
On 03/28/2012 09:54 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
'Everywhere' doesn't include (as far as i can say) Sweden, but the
freight from CO for this would be...
I would be very happy for a AS/400 or their black descendant.
At 6:27 PM -0700 3/28/12, mc68010 wrote:
...neither of which are impossible to find. Tough, but not impossible.
This is kind of cool. No bidders with with a few
hours left. If it was
only closer.
http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=695038
That vintage right ? It's hard to tell anymore.
No hard drives, no software. I think it's vintage, as in early 90's,
but not sure. My experience with
IBM gear is nearly non-existant.
This is an IBM Multiprise 3000, which made its debut in, I think,
2000 or so. It's basically an S/390 G5 (no connection to the PowerPC
processor of the same name) with a scaled-down I/O subsystem. It can be
either uniprocessor or dual. They're really nice machines, very compact
for a real mainframe, and quite fast as long as you don't do extremely
heavy I/O...basically it's got the same I/O as the rest of the computing
world, which is wimpy and puny when compared to real mainframes. These
machines are well-suited for S/390 software development for this reason.
They're popping up everywhere nowadays due to the IBM mainframe world
having gone 64-bit several years ago, and the subsequent de-supporting
of the 31-bit stuff. (no I didn't mean "32" ;))
5:49 a.m.
New subject: Multiprise 3000, was Re: S/390 in Aurora, CO. Public Surplus Auction
On 03/29/2012 08:40 AM, Stefan Skoglund wrote:
:-(
This is an
IBM Multiprise 3000, which made its debut in, I think,
2000 or so. It's basically an S/390 G5 (no connection to the PowerPC
processor of the same name) with a scaled-down I/O subsystem. It can be
either uniprocessor or dual. They're really nice machines, very compact
for a real mainframe, and quite fast as long as you don't do extremely
heavy I/O...basically it's got the same I/O as the rest of the computing
world, which is wimpy and puny when compared to real mainframes. These
machines are well-suited for S/390 software development for this reason.
They're popping up everywhere nowadays due to the IBM mainframe world
having gone 64-bit several years ago, and the subsequent de-supporting
of the 31-bit stuff. (no I didn't mean "32" ;))
'Everywhere' doesn't include (as far as i can say) Sweden, but the
freight from CO for this would be... I would be very happy for a AS/400 or their black
descendant.
You know this machine has nothing at all to do with AS/400s, right?
(just checking)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
1:10 p.m.
New subject: Multiprise 3000, was Re: S/390 in Aurora, CO. Public Surplus Auction
tor 2012-03-29 klockan 08:49 -0400 skrev Dave McGuire:
On 03/29/2012 08:40 AM, Stefan Skoglund wrote:
:-(
Except that serie of 390 machine is black and the RISC:based AS/400 also
is black, except for that not much. as long as we doesn't start to
discuss how IBM percepted the future for their mainframes.
OS/400 was how IBM wanted to build a new mainframe operative.
This
is an IBM Multiprise 3000, which made its debut in, I think,
2000 or so. It's basically an S/390 G5 (no connection to the PowerPC
processor of the same name) with a scaled-down I/O subsystem. It can be
either uniprocessor or dual. They're really nice machines, very compact
for a real mainframe, and quite fast as long as you don't do extremely
heavy I/O...basically it's got the same I/O as the rest of the computing
world, which is wimpy and puny when compared to real mainframes. These
machines are well-suited for S/390 software development for this reason.
They're popping up everywhere nowadays due to the IBM mainframe world
having gone 64-bit several years ago, and the subsequent de-supporting
of the 31-bit stuff. (no I didn't mean "32" ;))
'Everywhere' doesn't include (as far as i can say) Sweden, but the
freight from CO for this would be... I would be very happy for a AS/400 or their black
descendant.
You know this machine has nothing at all to do with AS/400s, right?
(just checking)
-Dave
2:41 p.m.
New subject: AS/400 Public Auction and IBM Model 3745 (was S/390 thread)
AS/400 system, via the same site/format
http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/all,tx/auction/view?auc=698872 however being public
surplus these are usually only for local pickup. I can't recall the service that does
pick things up and ship them internationally (or maybe they only allow you to ship it to
them and they'll ship it to you).. I believe it was also a Texas company and from what
I heard wasn't "that bad" although weight wise I'd certainly suggest
waiting for one that's more local.
There's also another huge beast
http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/all,tx/auction/view?auc=682194 which they're
describing as "FRONT END PROCESSOR ~ WORN Make:IBM Model:3745 Serial
Num:0000061". While it's certainly impressive in mass, from what I can tell
(well ok from what google and wikipedia told me) it's just a communication
controller?
--- On Thu, 3/29/12, Stefan Skoglund <Stefan.Skoglund at agj.net> wrote:
From: Stefan Skoglund <Stefan.Skoglund at
agj.net>
'Everywhere' doesn't include (as far as i can say) Sweden,
but the
freight from CO for this would be...
I would be very happy for a AS/400 or their black
descendant.
3:10 p.m.
New subject: AS/400 Public Auction and IBM Model 3745 (was S/390 thread)
It will be ground up for gold scrap by 99.99% of the buyers. Sad ending
to a nice system. I think they are some sort of modified 370
architecture internally. This is the beast that did all the comms in /
out of mainframes before they started to use the RT type technology,
then later the P390's.
I know that oversimplifies the progression, but is basically the
story. I'd love to have one to play with, but the size makes it pretty
prohibitive to think about (not to mention power, etc.)
I would think I could run it on an R390 with the right OS as well, not
sure. I know the P/390 and R/390 channels will run tape and 3174
channel attached, but not sure about whether the channels would run a
3745 or not.
Jim
On 3/29/2012 2:41 PM, Sam Onella wrote:
There's also another huge
beasthttp://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/all,tx/auction/view?auc=682194 which they're
describing as "FRONT END PROCESSOR ~ WORN Make:IBM Model:3745 Serial
Num:0000061". While it's certainly impressive in mass, from what I can tell
3:50 p.m.
New subject: AS/400 Public Auction and IBM Model 3745 (was S/390 thread)
?I think they are some sort of modified 370
architecture
internally. ?This is the beast that did all the comms in / out of mainframes
before they started to use the RT type technology, then later the P390's.
3745s may actually use the UC processor, like their predecessors.
I should wait until a 3745 shows up on the east coast.
--
Will
4:28 p.m.
New subject: AS/400 Public Auction and IBM Model 3745 (was S/390 thread)
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of jim s
Sent: 29 March 2012 23:11
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: AS/400 Public Auction and IBM Model 3745 (was
S/390 thread)
It will be ground up for gold scrap by 99.99% of the buyers.
Sad ending
to a nice system. I think they are some sort of modified 370
architecture internally. This is the beast that did all the
comms in /
out of mainframes before they started to use the RT type technology,
then later the P390's.
Its later than a P390, but similar in concept. You can have two CPUs in an
MP3000. You can have real disks and tapes or emulated disks and tapes. In
addition it has a built in SAN that looks like real disks to the s/390
cpu's. When we had one at work this was the most unreliable part. The
technical intro is here:-
http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg245633.pdf
Ours from work went for gold scrap. The cost of transferring the OS licence
is usually expensive, and the only free OS it will run is zLinux.
I know that oversimplifies the progression, but is basically the
story. I'd love to have one to play with, but the size
makes it pretty
prohibitive to think about (not to mention power, etc.)
F it has disks in the only bit you need is the CPU. It's a CPU and i/o in a
box.
I would think I could run it on an R390 with the right
OS as
well, not
sure. I know the P/390 and R/390 channels will run tape and 3174
channel attached, but not sure about whether the channels would run a
3745 or not.
The channels are real bus and tag channels and will run a 3745. However they
can have built in LAN cards so you don't normally need a 3745.
Jim
On 3/29/2012 2:41 PM, Sam Onella wrote:
There's also another huge
beasthttp://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/all,tx/auction/view?auc=
682194 which they're describing as "FRONT END PROCESSOR ~
WORN Make:IBM Model:3745 Serial Num:0000061". While it's
certainly impressive in mass, from what I can tell
28 Mar
28 Mar
10:51 p.m.
New subject: S/390 in Aurora, CO. Public Surplus Auction
On 03/28/2012 09:27 PM, mc68010 wrote:
This is kind of cool. No bidders with with a few hours
left. If it was
only closer.
http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=695038
That vintage right ? It's hard to tell anymore.
Not terribly vintage; see my other mail.
What IS vintage is the peripheral set. That machine is obviously a
new CPU that was swapped in to replace a bigger, older one. Multiprise
3000 systems like this can (and often do) have parallel channel
interfaces installed, to allow them to connect to the full range of
peripherals that were sold with their predecessors.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
29 Mar
29 Mar
2:50 p.m.
New subject: S/390 in Aurora, CO. Public Surplus Auction
Just posted this on the VC forums too but the auction was extended with a new date of Apr
9, 2012 10:00:00 AM MDT (0 bidders).
28 Mar
28 Mar
8:46 p.m.
New subject: Family illness [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
s/pub/hospital/
No, not treatment for me. My father was taken very
ill last week, I
am visiting him every day, and hoping for the best...
That sucks. My parents were in medical care far more than I might
wish, late in their lives, so perhaps I have some vague idea what it
must be like for you.
Here's hoping with you.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
29 Mar
29 Mar
12:17 p.m.
New subject: Family illness [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
s/pub/hospital/
No, not treatment for me. My father was taken
very ill last week, I
am visiting him every day, and hoping for the best...
That sucks. My parents were in medical care far more than I might
1 p.m.
New subject: Family illness [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
s/pub/hospital/
No, not treatment for me. My father was taken
very ill last week, I
am visiting him every day, and hoping for the best...
That sucks. My parents were in medical care far more than I might
30 Mar
30 Mar
12:18 p.m.
New subject: Family illness [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
s/pub/hospital/
No, not treatment for me. My father was taken
very ill last week, I
am visiting him every day, and hoping for the best...
That sucks. My parents were in medical care far more than I might 
5:39 p.m.
New subject: Family illness [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
On Mar 30, 2012, at 3:18 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
This is really OT, but I think you'll all be
pleased to know that my
father is recovering. Tiday when I visited him, we had a long discussion
about the relative desirability of the Nikon F2, Pentacon Super, Praktina
IIA and Exakta Varex cameras. Maybe not a typical topic for hosptial
converstaions, but...
Glad to hear it. I'll advocate for the F2 any day; I still occasionally
use my father's that he got while serving in the Navy. I've mostly given
up film because of the difficulty and expense of developing it, not the
cameras (or at least not that camera). :-)
- Dave
31 Mar
31 Mar
11:44 a.m.
New subject: Family illness [was Re: another hidden pdp11]
On Mar 30, 2012, at 3:18 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
I will agree it's a fine camera (I don;t have one, only a plain Nikon F),
but I do also have a soft spot for the East German cameras, many of which
are seriously under-rated and have very good lenses.
All of them have soemthing desriable about them, BTW. I do like the slow
speeds to 12 secodns amd the flim cutting knife on my Exakta :-). I do
like the breech-lock mount nad the motordrive coupling on the Praktina.
Alas I don't ahve the Pentacon Super...
This is really OT, but I think you'll all be
pleased to know that my
father is recovering. Tiday when I visited him, we had a long discussion
about the relative desirability of the Nikon F2, Pentacon Super, Praktina
IIA and Exakta Varex cameras. Maybe not a typical topic for hosptial
converstaions, but...
Glad to hear it. I'll advocate for the F2 any day; I still occasionally use my father's that he got while serving in the
Navy. I've mostly given
up film because of the difficulty and expense of developing it, not the
cameras (or at least not that camera). :-)
It's not that hard to do it yourself.. And the equipment is not expensive.
-tony
28 Mar
28 Mar
12:29 p.m.
On Tue, 27 Mar 2012, Tony Duell wrote:
>>
>> hello all,
>> yesterday my wife and I emptied our garage(25 years of diverse things=20
>
> I hope most of it went abck i nthe garage (or in other suitable
> accomodation). It sounds like you haev some intersting machiens.
>
I'm sorry, I'll type that again...
'I hope most of it went back in the garage (or in other suitable
accomodation). It sounds like you have some interesting amchines.'
I can only assume that you type with your nose.
It's the only thing that
would explain that mess. Either that or you've got the equivalent to
a 2400 baud brain running 110 baud fingers. :)
It's partly the latter (I must improve the FIFO between my brain and my
hands), it's partly that I have other things on my mind right now.
-tony
4413
days inactive
4421
days old
53 comments
25 participants
participants (25)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
barythrin＠yahoo.com -
cclist＠sydex.com -
chris＠mainecoon.com -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
fraveydank＠gmail.com -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
IanK＠vulcan.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jws＠jwsss.com -
legalize＠xmission.com -
mc68010＠gmail.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
mouse＠Rodents-Montreal.ORG -
nierveze＠radio-astronomie.com -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
RichA＠vulcan.com -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
Stefan.Skoglund＠agj.net -
toby＠telegraphics.com.au -
useddec＠gmail.com -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com