21 Mar
2011
21 Mar
'11
5:11 p.m.
Hi all,
after stumbling around in the internet I ran across KLH10 again.
Having it up and running fine and smoothely on my linux box I thought
it'd be nice to have it run on my Windows-Laptop I have to use for
work too (my only M$-Box here, runs Win7/64bit).
Anyone already tried to compile KLH10 under Windows? Did a quick try,
but get stuck loads of compiler errors /warnings. At least with my
Standard MinGW/Code:Blocks dev.toolchain. Okay, I didn't tweak much.
Maybe someone already got it to compile, I'd appreciate if you'd be
willing to share code with me. Otherwise I'd begin to fix the various
compiler-warnings and errors.
By the way: KLH-10 development seems to be paused at the moment - does
anyone know something about the current status?
Regards,
Wolfgang
--
Wolfgang Eichberger - OE5EWL
Operating System Research
Blog: 5ewl.blogspot.com
Homepage: www.eichberger.org
21 Mar
21 Mar
6:28 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Wolfgang Eichberger
Sent: 21 March 2011 21:11
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: KLH10 Status / any1 tried to compile on Windows?
Hi all,
after stumbling around in the internet I ran across KLH10 again.
Having it up and running fine and smoothely on my linux box I thought it'd
be
nice to have it run on my Windows-Laptop I have to use
for work too (my
only M$-Box here, runs Win7/64bit).
Anyone already tried to compile KLH10 under Windows? Did a quick try, but
get stuck loads of compiler errors /warnings. At least with my Standard
MinGW/Code:Blocks dev.toolchain. Okay, I didn't tweak much.
Maybe someone already got it to compile, I'd appreciate if you'd be
willing
to share code with me. Otherwise I'd begin to fix
the various compiler-
warnings and errors.
By the way: KLH-10 development seems to be paused at the moment - does
anyone know something about the current status?
Regards,
Wolfgang
--
Wolfgang Eichberger - OE5EWL
Operating System Research
Blog: 5ewl.blogspot.com
Homepage: www.eichberger.org
I tried the same thing once but I don't remember trying too hard before
giving up and promising myself to come back to it one day. I too would be
interested in a Windows port.
Regards
Rob
7:17 p.m.
From: Wolfgang Eichberger
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 2:11 PM
after stumbling around in the internet I ran across
KLH10 again.
Having it up and running fine and smoothely on my linux box I thought
it'd be nice to have it run on my Windows-Laptop I have to use for
work too (my only M$-Box here, runs Win7/64bit).
Anyone already tried to compile KLH10 under Windows?
Did a quick try,
but get stuck loads of compiler errors /warnings. At least with my
Standard MinGW/Code:Blocks dev.toolchain. Okay, I didn't tweak much.
Maybe someone already got it to compile, I'd appreciate if you'd be
willing to share code with me. Otherwise I'd begin to fix the various
compiler-warnings and errors.
The usual stated goal is to port it to Windows rather than the CygWin
crypto-Unix environment. That's a lot harder, it would seem, but it's not
at all clear that the CygWin toolset can build it.
By the way: KLH-10 development seems to be paused at
the moment - does
anyone know something about the current status?
There have been a couple of issues noted with GCC4 (which you may or may
not have encountered, depending on whether you built a KL-10 or a KS-10
emulator), but nothing much in the way of patches needed. The current
maintainer has talked about upgrading from a KL-10 with 23 bits of address
to a super-KL with a full super-section (27 bits of address). The full
extended addressing specification is 30 bits, which the XKl-1 CPU in the
Toad-1 implements, but that requires a lot of changes to the monitor that
a single super-section would not. The problem is finding the time to do
that plus the minimal monitor work needed (or a sugar daddy to pay him to
do it).
The usual response from that quarter to running KLH10 on Windows is that
one ought simply to use a VM and run it on Linux. Or find a much much
richer sugar daddy to foot that bill.
(The preceding is based on face to face conversations with the maintainer.)
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Server Engineer
Vulcan, Inc.
505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900
Seattle, WA 98104
mailto:RichA at vulcan.com
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
9:41 p.m.
At 4:17 PM -0700 3/21/11, Rich Alderson wrote:
The usual response from that quarter to running KLH10
on Windows is that
one ought simply to use a VM and run it on Linux.
This was my thought. One question, how well does networking function
in such a setup?
Another solution would be a cheap Intel Atom box running Linux. This
is the route I've wanted to take, just haven't found the time or
money.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Photographer |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| My flickr Photostream |
| http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |
22 Mar
22 Mar
12:18 p.m.
In article <CC28F43ED4708D489ABCF68D06D7F55604243E422D at 505DENALI.corp.vnw.com>,
Rich Alderson <RichA at vulcan.com> writes:
The usual stated goal is to port it to Windows rather
than the CygWin
crypto-Unix environment. That's a lot harder, it would seem, [...]
I'm not familiar with the KLH-10 source code, but for an old school
emulator I can't imagine it doing anything more fancy than stdio. Is
it C or C++? What makes it hard to port?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
2:39 p.m.
Seems to be pretty all in C. I imported the whole project in Visual C
already and am tweaking around. Huge parts should compile relative
easy, currently I'm into the networking sections. I believe it could
be ported, it's just a matter of time. I try to leave the source
original as much as possible, just doing extensions. If I've got
enough time in the evenings (depends a bit of my little kiddies) I
assume a timeframe of a couple of weeks to get a decent compiler run
without serious errors.
Any suggestions tipps and tricks are welcome :D
I'm doing this because of my interest in technology, especially the
hardware emulation stuff.
Regards,
Wolfgang
--
Wolfgang Eichberger - OE5EWL
Operating System Research
Blog: 5ewl.blogspot.com
Homepage: www.eichberger.org
2011/3/22 Richard <legalize at xmission.com>:
In article <CC28F43ED4708D489ABCF68D06D7F55604243E422D at 505DENALI.corp.vnw.com>,
? ?Rich Alderson <RichA at vulcan.com> writes:
The usual stated goal is to port it to Windows
rather than the CygWin
crypto-Unix environment. ?That's a lot harder, it would seem, [...]
I'm not familiar with the KLH-10 source code, but for an old school
emulator I can't imagine it doing anything more fancy than stdio. ?Is
it C or C++? ?What makes it hard to port?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
?<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
? ? ?Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
2:43 p.m.
From: Richard
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:19 AM
In article
<CC28F43ED4708D489ABCF68D06D7F55604243E422D at 505DENALI.corp.vnw.com>, Rich
Alderson <RichA at vulcan.com> writes:
> The usual stated goal is to port it to Windows
rather than the CygWin
> crypto-Unix environment. That's a lot harder, it would seem, [...]
I'm not familiar with the KLH-10 source code, but
for an old school
emulator I can't imagine it doing anything more fancy than stdio. Is
it C or C++? What makes it hard to port?
Presumably things like the System V shared memory model used by the CPU
and peripherals modules. I am not a C programmmer, I can only go by what
I've been told by KLH and MRC.
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Server Engineer
Vulcan, Inc.
505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900
Seattle, WA 98104
mailto:RichA at vulcan.com
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
3:38 p.m.
In article <CC28F43ED4708D489ABCF68D06D7F55604243E4230 at 505DENALI.corp.vnw.com>,
Rich Alderson <RichA at vulcan.com> writes:
From: Richard
I can help with the port; I'm knowledgable about Windows system
facilities. Wolfgang, feel free to email me off list with questions
and I'll help if I can.
I'd suggest hosting the source code on codeplex or sharing
repositories with Mercurial. That way you can make local commits
and track your changes more readily, as well as share those changes
with others.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
I'm not familiar with the KLH-10 source code,
but for an old school
emulator I can't imagine it doing anything more fancy than stdio. Is
it C or C++? What makes it hard to port?
Presumably things like the System V shared memory model used by the CPU
and peripherals modules. I am not a C programmmer, I can only go by what
I've been told by KLH and MRC.
3:50 p.m.
From: Richard
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 12:39 PM
I'd suggest hosting the source code on codeplex or
sharing
repositories with Mercurial. That way you can make local commits
and track your changes more readily, as well as share those changes
with others.
I'd suggest that that is a very bad idea. There is already a well-known
repository for KLH10, to wit, Tim Shoppa's trailing-edge.com site. I can't
imagine that Tim would mind hosting a Windows port, and I'd hate to see
repositories for this proliferate.
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Server Engineer
Vulcan, Inc.
505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900
Seattle, WA 98104
mailto:RichA at vulcan.com
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
4:14 p.m.
In article <CC28F43ED4708D489ABCF68D06D7F55604243E4231 at 505DENALI.corp.vnw.com>,
Rich Alderson <RichA at vulcan.com> writes:
From: Richard
OK, but the problem that I've seen with most of these "repositories"
is that they are monolithic tarball distributions. They aren't places
where people can work collaboratively. Specifically, if you're
talking about: <http://klh10.trailing-edge.com/>, this isn't a place
where we can collaborate on the code, its simply a distribution point
for a tarball.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
I'd suggest hosting the source code on
codeplex or sharing
repositories with Mercurial. That way you can make local commits
and track your changes more readily, as well as share those changes
with others.
I'd suggest that that is a very bad idea. There is already a well-known
repository for KLH10, to wit, Tim Shoppa's trailing-edge.com site. I can't
imagine that Tim would mind hosting a Windows port, and I'd hate to see
repositories for this proliferate.
4:46 p.m.
I don't want to open another repository if this disturbs someone.
Preferably I'd consult Tim about the Idea KLH-10 Port and/or
Repository as I do not like to "take over" someone elses code by
myself (this is seen fairly often out there in the internet). Maybe
he's got an idea? The distribution site should not be changed in any
way!
If there are some people collaborating the port should be done fairly soon.
Regards, Wolfgang
--
Wolfgang Eichberger - OE5EWL
Operating System Research
Blog: 5ewl.blogspot.com
Homepage: www.eichberger.org
2011/3/22 Richard <legalize at xmission.com>:
In article <CC28F43ED4708D489ABCF68D06D7F55604243E4231 at 505DENALI.corp.vnw.com>,
? ?Rich Alderson <RichA at vulcan.com> writes:
From: Richard
OK, but the problem that I've seen with most of these "repositories"
is that they are monolithic tarball distributions. ?They aren't places
where people can work collaboratively. ?Specifically, if you're
talking about: <http://klh10.trailing-edge.com/>, this isn't a place
where we can collaborate on the code, its simply a distribution point
for a tarball.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
?<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
? ? ?Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
I'd suggest hosting the source code on
codeplex or sharing
repositories with Mercurial. ?That way you can make local commits
and track your changes more readily, as well as share those changes
with others.
I'd suggest that that is a very bad idea. ?There is already a well-known
repository for KLH10, to wit, Tim Shoppa's trailing-edge.com site. ?I can't
imagine that Tim would mind hosting a Windows port, and I'd hate to see
repositories for this proliferate.
6:14 p.m.
Maybe we're using two different meanings for the word 'repository'.
I'm using it in a version control system sense: a place where you can
look at different versions of the source files and create patches,
test local changes, etc.
When you create a project on codeplex/github/google code/etc., you
generally get a source code repository configured for a version
control system like subversion, mercurial, git, etc.
Setting up a project on a project hosting site isn't as important as
setting up version control so that you can i) isolate your changes,
ii) experiment with changes that you might want to undo should they
not work out, and iii) create patches that you can submit to the KLH10
maintainers.
With mercurial, its easy to create a local repository and share it
with someone (i.e. me) without going to the trouble of creating a
project on a hosting site like codeplex.
I honestly don't understand why the SIMH folks don't have a publicly
accessible source code repository and only have tarballs. It makes
contributing source code changes harder than it should be.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
6:48 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Richard
Sent: 22 March 2011 22:14
To: cctalk
Subject: Re: KLH10 Status / any1 tried to compile on Windows?
Maybe we're using two different meanings for the word 'repository'.
I'm using it in a version control system sense: a place where you can look
at
different versions of the source files and create
patches, test local
changes,
etc.
When you create a project on codeplex/github/google code/etc., you
generally get a source code repository configured for a version control
system like subversion, mercurial, git, etc.
Setting up a project on a project hosting site isn't as important as
setting
up
version control so that you can i) isolate your
changes,
ii) experiment with changes that you might want to undo should they not
work out, and iii) create patches that you can submit to the KLH10
maintainers.
With mercurial, its easy to create a local repository and share it with
someone (i.e. me) without going to the trouble of creating a project on a
hosting site like codeplex.
I honestly don't understand why the SIMH folks don't have a publicly
accessible source code repository and only have tarballs. It makes
contributing source code changes harder than it should be.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
I have to agree with that last comment. Perhaps it would be better to open
that discussion on the SIMH list though.
Regards
Rob
11:52 p.m.
In article <4D893695.9070100 at bitsavers.org>,
Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> writes:
On 3/22/11 3:48 PM, Rob Jarratt wrote:
Yes, my fingers typed SIMH when I meant KLH instead. Its the same
story in each case, although I don't know if the principals involved
are the same.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
Perhaps it would be better to open
that discussion on the SIMH list though.
I think it would be an issue with KLH and Mark Crispin and not SIMH. 
8:31 p.m.
I honestly don't understand why the SIMH folks
don't have a publicly
> accessible source code repository and only have tarballs.
There is essentially one code maintainer, Bob Supnik. Everything filters
through him.
About the only large-scale open source simulation effort is MESS. There are
dozens of people actively working on that for dozens of systems.
http://mess.dorando.at/svn/
11:53 p.m.
In article <4D893F66.2090004 at bitsavers.org>,
Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> writes:
Presumably the same is true with the KLH simulator. However, this is
exactly my point: it doesn't encourage sharing the way most other open
source projects do, even when those open source projects have a single
maintainer.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
I honestly
don't understand why the SIMH folks don't have a publicly
> accessible source code repository and only have tarballs.
There is essentially one code maintainer, Bob Supnik. Everything filters
through him.
12:16 p.m.
In article <AANLkTikMPLpEmkxaKUdxwzJxQ0JhnK2jc-uOokmpXpHS at mail.gmail.com>,
Wolfgang Eichberger <oe5ewl at gmail.com> writes:
Anyone already tried to compile KLH10 under Windows?
Did a quick try,
but get stuck loads of compiler errors /warnings. At least with my
Standard MinGW/Code:Blocks dev.toolchain.
For Windows, you're really much better off compiling with Visual
Studio and not the MinGW hacky setup. Visual C++ Express 2010 is a
free download, so cost isn't an excuse anymore.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
4833
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17 comments
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participants (6)
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aek＠bitsavers.org -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
legalize＠xmission.com -
oe5ewl＠gmail.com -
RichA＠vulcan.com -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com