6 Jul
2005
6 Jul
'05
1:35 p.m.
I got this today from a from a guy that says that he's planning on
setting up a computer museum in the Orlando area. Interested parties
should contact him directly.
Joe
Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 16:18:49 -0400
From: Vince Custodio <vincemba1 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Computer Museum
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Hi, Joe
Thank you for your quick response.
We are only in the initial planning stage, thus we need to know what
equipment is available. Locating, and subsequently gathering, the collection
is the longest process, so we are starting it first.
Any possible contributors should email me a list of equipment. This list is
forwarded to our Artifact Collection Committee. They decide which pieces
have historical value and thus contact the contributor to determine the
condition of the equipment as well the terms of donation/loan to the museum.
We have a million things to do before the museum even opens. Thus,the museum
building's location and whether it will be constructed or will be an
existing structure is much further down the road.
Do you have other collector's email addresses? or would you prefer to
forward my emails?
Thank you
Sincerely,
Vince Custodio
From: "Joe R." <rigdonj at
cfl.rr.com>
To: Vince Custodio <vincemba1 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Computer Museum
Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 15:48:04
Hi Vince,
I have several items that I would consider loaning to your museum. Mike
Haas, dogas at bellsouth.net, is a collector in Savanna Ga. He may consider
loaning you some equipment. I think there is another collector in the
Miami area and I think there are a couple in Tampa area but I don't know
them. There's another guy near me the used to collect computers but he's
inactive now. He may loan you some stuff though.
What kind of computers are you looking for?
Any idea when you plan on opening your museum?
Joe
At 02:43 PM 7/6/05 -0400, you wrote:
Hi,
My name is Vince Custodio. I am an Orlando entrepreneur with an interest
in
old computers and their history. I will be opening
a Computer Museum in
the
Orlando, FL area. This project is in collaboration
with ITT Technical
Institute, Lake Mary, FL.
I saw your posting at:
http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/ccrs_list.html.
We are currently seeking computer equipment donations or loans to our
museum. As a donor, you will receive credit in the respective exhibit as
well as having a lifetime membership to the museum. You will also be
invited
to our ribbon-cutting ceremony and grand opening.
We will not physically need equipment right now but I am compiling a list
of
potential contributors.
Do you have anything that you would consider contributing?
Do you know other collectors in Florida?
If you have any questions and prefer to call me, you may do so at: 321
377-3412 (my company is Pro Detailz so that is how I answer my cell
phone)
Thank you.
Vince Custodio
1122 Brantley Estates Dr
Altamonte Springs, FL
7 Jul
7 Jul
2:50 p.m.
On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Joe R. wrote:
Subject: Re: Computer Museum
I got this today from a from a guy that says that he's planning on
setting up a computer museum in the Orlando area. Interested parties
should contact him directly.
> We are only in the initial planning stage, thus we
need to know what
> equipment is available. Locating, and subsequently gathering, the collection
> is the longest process, so we are starting it first.
Umm, not to be cynical, but I think the first, the longest, the
most difficult task, would be securing funding in order to
continue existing.
Sorry, but this sounds like a personal wet dream. Those are fine,
but as they say, keep it in your pants.
Even the San Diego museum had a hard go at it, and they are pros.
A pile of stuff does not a museum make. The Maslin collection is a
good example.
3:21 p.m.
At 11:50 AM 7/7/05 -0700, you wrote:
I agree and I'm waiting to see what happens with this attempt.
Supposedly he has the backing of ITT Institute. Or it may just be another
attempt to see what some guy can get people to give him. He keeps asking
about donations and wants a list of what I have but I've told him that I'd
be willing to LOAN him computers and asked what kind of stuff he's looking
for and I haven't gotten a satisfactory reply yet. Time will tell.
Joe
On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Joe R. wrote:
collection
Subject: Re: Computer Museum
I got this today from a from a guy that says that he's planning on
setting up a computer museum in the Orlando area. Interested parties
should contact him directly.
>> We are only in the initial planning stage, thus we need to know what
>> equipment is available. Locating, and subsequently gathering, the
> is the
longest process, so we are starting it first.
Umm, not to be cynical, but I think the first, the longest, the
most difficult task, would be securing funding in order to
continue existing.
Sorry, but this sounds like a personal wet dream. Those are fine,
but as they say, keep it in your pants.
Even the San Diego museum had a hard go at it, and they are pros.
A pile of stuff does not a museum make. The Maslin collection is a
good example.
3:58 p.m.
On 7/7/05, Joe R. <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
I agree and I'm waiting to see what happens
with this attempt.
Supposedly he has the backing of ITT Institute. Or it may just be another
attempt to see what some guy can get people to give him. He keeps asking
about donations and wants a list of what I have but I've told him that I'd
be willing to LOAN him computers and asked what kind of stuff he's looking
for and I haven't gotten a satisfactory reply yet. Time will tell.
Indeed... getting (most) stuff is the easy part. Space/money is
always the kicker.
-ethan
4:16 p.m.
Oddly enough I recently had to try to come up with a
(theoretical) business case for building a Museum of
Computer Technology. Thinking about it I settled on
location as being as key a driver as anything else.
It's hard to imagine the Computer Museum of East Spit,
PA (which is where I live) attracting donations or
funding, or even state grants for preservation
projects, but if you can tie into an area that has a
direct connection to technology or to well-know
technologists I think you'd be in a better position to
convince benefactors or donors to contribute.
Dave.
--- Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote:
Indeed... getting (most) stuff is the easy part.
Space/money is
always the kicker.
-ethan
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
4:24 p.m.
I would have to agree. I have been building our collection for about two
years now and I have had to move everything twice. I spend a lot of time
negotiating space wherever I can find it. Fortunately we are planning a new
Engineering Building and my endeavors have spiked the interest of the Dean,
so the plans now call for a 10K square foot Engineering museum. Since we
have a running start we may get the lion's share of the space. Right now I
have about 500 Sq. Ft. for storage. We have various displays in different
kinds of cases around the building.
Sometime in the next week I will be getting 9 vitrines from a museum project
here in Arlington that the voters turned down twice. We will spot them about
the building. Well, that is probably not of general interest to the list,
but I just wanted to show how much of my time and energy this occupies. We
have had no trouble filling the space we have with donations. We have a
Sys/36 for example, some PDP/11 peripherals, a complete Four-Phase Systems
IV/90 (two racks and two washtubs). I spent about $1K on eBay over a year or
so getting small systems and bits and pieces such as some tab cards from WW
II. We have a really interesting S-100 collection - two Altair 8800b's, an
IMSAI or 2, a slug of Cromemcos and a slug of Vectors.
Anyway, yes, space and $ are by far my larger concerns.
Gil
A. G. (Gil) Carrick, Director
The Museum at CSE
Coach - ICPC Programming Team
University of Texas at Arlington
Department of Computer Science & Engineering
Box 19015, 471 S Cooper Street
Arlington, TX 76019
817-272-3620
http://www.cse.uta.edu/TheMuseum at CSE/
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 2:59 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Computer Museum
On 7/7/05, Joe R. <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
I agree and I'm waiting to see what
happens with this attempt.
Supposedly he has the backing of ITT Institute. Or it may just be
another attempt to see what some guy can get people to give him. He
keeps asking about donations and wants a list of what I
have but I've
told him that I'd be willing to LOAN him
computers and
asked what kind
of stuff he's looking for and I haven't
gotten a
satisfactory reply yet. Time will tell.
Indeed... getting (most) stuff is the easy part. Space/money
is always the kicker.
-ethan
3:27 p.m.
On Thu, 2005-07-07 at 11:50 -0700, Tom Jennings wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Joe R. wrote:
Depends on what their situation is with storage / display space I
suppose. Public liability insurance is apparently cheap (at least over
here), so getting something up and running isn't that difficult *if
there's space available*.
If they have some space in mind, very little cash would be needed at
least for the first year or so - surviving beyond that might be harder
without some decent sponsorship.
Problem over here is that we're on a crowded island and the Government
place use of buildings for museum space pretty much at the bottom of the
ladder; I imagine that isn't so much of a problem in much of the US.
Personally I wouldn't give anything to anyone who didn't have space for
it already though - they should be able to amass enough of a collection
first to know if it's viable, get some display space, and then put out
an appeal to enthusiasts.
cheers
Jules
Subject: Re: Computer Museum
I got this today from a from a guy that says that he's planning on
setting up a computer museum in the Orlando area. Interested parties
should contact him directly.
> We are only in the initial planning stage,
thus we need to know what
> equipment is available. Locating, and subsequently gathering, the collection
> is the longest process, so we are starting it first.
Umm, not to be cynical, but I think the first, the longest, the
most difficult task, would be securing funding in order to
continue existing.
10 Jul
10 Jul
4:28 a.m.
On Thu, 7 Jul 2005, Jules Richardson wrote:
Problem over here is that we're on a crowded
island and the Government
place use of buildings for museum space pretty much at the bottom of the
ladder; I imagine that isn't so much of a problem in much of the US.
Here in the US, there is essentially zero (0) chance of any public
involvement in a museum that won't make a lot of money. A
side-effect of the corporatization of everything. Even the
Smithsonian is hosting a "creation science" exhibit with corporate
sponsorship. (the current euphemism is 'intelligent design',
similar to the use of the phrase 'depleted uranium'.)
Public funding for the arts has been reduced to a practical zero
by right-wing corporate goons, sicko christian loonies, and the
dwindling resources that remain go to fewer and fewer recipients.
But I digress.
Any group seriously starting a museum will know that longevity is
the key, and that serious donors and lenders of goods know it, and
they know they know it, so a new, legitimate museum startup would
likely forefront their stability -- if they had any -- in outreach
efforts. The implication is, if they don't, they aren't.
10:35 a.m.
On Sunday 10 July 2005 01:28, Tom Jennings wrote:
On Thu, 7 Jul 2005, Jules Richardson wrote:
--snip--
Public funding for the arts has been reduced to a
practical zero
by right-wing corporate goons, sicko christian loonies, and the
dwindling resources that remain go to fewer and fewer recipients.
There are some of us "corporate goons, sicko christian loonies" who do a lot
of volunteer work for and have donated generously to the Computer History
Museum (the largest museum of it's kind in the world). We (speaking as a
charter member) have a huge collection of artifacts and have restored an IBM
1620 and PDP-1 to working condition and are in the process of restoring an
IBM 1401 (more to follow). These are projects well beyond the scope of most
collectors.
It might be wise to revisit your thoughts before you lash out with your broad,
baseless, unfounded assumptions.
Lyle
--
Lyle Bickley
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
Mountain View, CA
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
11 Jul
11 Jul
3:25 p.m.
On Sun, 10 Jul 2005, Lyle Bickley wrote:
Clearly then you're not one of them. I refer to an enumerable list
of virulent reactionary activists working hard and often
extra-legally to push the U.S. (particularly) in a specific and
narrow direction.
There are plenty of responsible businesses. There are clearly
plenty of christian-persuasion people doing wonderful things in
all realms; vast numbers of the civil-rights movement, for
example, it goes without saying.
My emphasis was on right-wing extremists, and sicko loonies; those
that want to control other peoples behaviours for their own gains.
However the corporate- and christian- subcategories are
particularly virulent at the moment, and pointful to their
behavior.
You have my apologies if it sounded like I meant otherwise.
Anyways my point was that largely, the funding of open and
ideologically-untethered arts is not valued highly by the
powers-that-be at the moment.
Public funding
for the arts has been reduced to a practical zero
by right-wing corporate goons, sicko christian loonies, and the
dwindling resources that remain go to fewer and fewer recipients.
There are some of us "corporate goons, sicko christian loonies" who do a lot
of volunteer work for and have donated generously to the Computer History
Museum
10 Jul
10 Jul
11 a.m.
New subject: Public funding for the "Arts" Re: Computer Museum
At 01:28 AM 7/10/05 -0700, Tom Jennings wrote:
Public funding for the arts has been reduced to a practical zero
by right-wing corporate goons, sicko christian loonies, and the
dwindling resources that remain go to fewer and fewer recipients.
I couldn't disagree more! It wasn't the right-wing goons, christian
loonies, etc that killed public funding for the arts, it was the sicko,
perverted, frequently pornographic and always ugly work of the "artists"
that killed public funding. The public was fed up with no-talent artists
feeding at the public trough! Remember the photograph of the crucifix in a
glass of urine? How much talent did that take? Yet that "artist" was paid
several hundred thousand dollars every year to produce "art". I for one
hope we've seen the last of "art" produced for the public! There are
thousands of good artists in this country but public funding was nothing
but a haven for no-talent punks that wanted to make a "statement" and
screamed "freedom of the arts" everytime they offended the same public that
they expected to fund them!
Joe
10:26 p.m.
New subject: Public funding for the "Arts" Re: Computer Museum
On Sun, 10 Jul 2005, woodelf wrote:
Bit bucket full -- redirecting output to console.
Computers are not art but science ... History however
is needed in all forms however.
We're talking about history, which is culture, not products.
There mere fact that some arbitrarily old machine (say: LGP-30)
would have to be contextualized in its 1950's context clearly
shows that.
Second, computers -- as products -- are not science. Science is
not technology, and technology isn't science (the subsuming of
science *into* technological production is another story).
Computers are products, not made by 'scientists' but produced in
factories by the lowest-skilled label it's possible to get away
with.
Third, most museums try to appeal to a broad swath of humanity,
not just nerds. Computers exist in culture, for purposes of all
kinds (which has clearly changed; from 40's hydrodynamics to 00's
Grand Theft Auto -- a good museum will contextualize all this.
I am fairly high nerd -- yet I care a lot about the culture in
which this crap exists, who made them, why, ramifications of use,
etc.
It's art, and history, and historiography, with a bit of science
and a tinier bit of technology. Nerds like us can get a doc set
and pore over the schematics; most people will want more.
11:10 p.m.
New subject: Public funding for the "Arts" Re: Computer Museum
Tom Jennings wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jul 2005, woodelf wrote:
Second, computers -- as products -- are not science.
Science is
not technology, and technology isn't science (the subsuming of
science *into* technological production is another story).
Computers are products, not made by 'scientists' but produced in
factories by the lowest-skilled label it's possible to get away
with.
That sounds just like the underware I just bought.
Made in India,USA or some other third world country.
Where is the made in Canada label?
It is sad to say computer development is in the hands
of bean counters.
Now how about using nice slow organic plastic transitors
and make vacuum tube speed computers. Now that would be
3rd world techology. The real advancement for the future
is to recycle our envorment and that is not about making
$$$$ sadly.
10 Jul
10 Jul
12:02 p.m.
New subject: Public funding for the "Arts" Re: Computer Museum
On Sun, 2005-07-10 at 11:00 -0400, Joe R. wrote:
At 01:28 AM 7/10/05 -0700, Tom Jennings wrote:
Neither IMHO. Modern Governments don't appear to care about the
population (did they ever?) - they only care about getting re-elected
and being seen to be better than other Governments of the world. That
tends to lead to public-funded entertainment in any form taking a back
seat to things that will result in more profit.
Over here it seems to be getting worse fast, too. Plus we've now got the
Olympics in 2012 which means public funding for anything else is likely
to get cut even further.
Self-sufficiency or private sponsorship are the only way forward for
most projects - but of course private sponsorship is almost impossible
to get for any kind of start-up operation; businesses are only going to
throw money at something that's already achieving a certain amount.
cheers
Jules
Public funding for the arts has been reduced to a practical zero
by right-wing corporate goons, sicko christian loonies, and the
dwindling resources that remain go to fewer and fewer recipients.
I couldn't disagree more! It wasn't the right-wing goons, christian
loonies, etc that killed public funding for the arts, it was the sicko,
perverted, frequently pornographic and always ugly work of the "artists"
that killed public funding. 
6:17 p.m.
re: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 1:28 AM (PDT)
{Paraphrasing}
Popular hobbyist support for the Classiccmp list can been reduced to
practically zero by allowing extremist goons, and sicko loonies to comment
freely. The dwindling contributorship that remains will lead to fewer and
fewer interesting threads.
John A.
or ...has led to...
12:28 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jules Richardson" <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: Computer Museum
Personally I wouldn't give anything to anyone who didn't have space for
it already though - they should be able to amass enough of a collection
first to know if it's viable, get some display space, and then put out
an appeal to enthusiasts.
cheers
Jules
This helps me understand why there is very little reponse to my JUST A BUCK
campaign asking for $1 from each person that visit's the museum website.
There seems to be very little(if any) help for start-ups in the museum
sector. I have seem two computer museum starts-ups get large funding help
but the people starting them were already rich and their friends gave big
bucks ( 1 million or more).
12:47 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keys" <jrkeys at concentric.net>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: Computer Museum
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jules Richardson" <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: Computer Museum
BUCK
Personally I wouldn't give anything to anyone who didn't have space for
it already though - they should be able to amass enough of a collection
first to know if it's viable, get some display space, and then put out
an appeal to enthusiasts.
cheers
Jules
This helps me understand why there is very little reponse to my JUST A campaign asking for $1 from each person that
visit's the museum website.
There seems to be very little(if any) help for start-ups in the museum
sector. I have seem two computer museum starts-ups get large funding help
but the people starting them were already rich and their friends gave big
bucks ( 1 million or more).
People have been burned too many times by others collecting for a cause that
does not exist. If somebody asked you to contribute money to a museum that
did not have a large collection, a building, and some visiting hours already
you might be thinking this guy just wants you to help pay for his collecting
needs and the machines (if that is even where the money goes) are never seen
by anybody. For most people a cheap to maintain website is preferable to a
real computer museum showing static unpowered machines anyway.
2:42 p.m.
Out here in NJ, we've been extremely lucky with the new-ish local club,
MARCH (Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists). There's a new science
musuem being built at a former army base, they already have official
non-profit status, and they even inherited an existing computer collection.
They found our group, and we found them, via mutual contacts at the Trenton
Computer Festival. Turns out they wanted to find a group of people who
could manage their collection. So basically they are "giving" us a museum
to run. A few of us already toured the base and they've got dozens and
dozens of acres of land and empty buildings. At one point they took us to a
building called "the library" (the base was also a college at one point) and
they said, oh, that building's yours! We also learned that part of the
collection we're getting includes an actual ENIAC card. Cool!
Our club isn't listed yet, but the facility itself is at infoage.org (our
club is temporarily at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/ ) ...
I guess the moral of all this is that it's helpful to make computer museums
part of existing, related facilities, rather than trying to start from
scratch.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Keys
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 12:29 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only
Subject: Re: Computer Museum
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jules Richardson" <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: Computer Museum
Personally I wouldn't give anything to anyone who didn't have space
for it already though - they should be able to amass enough of a
collection first to know if it's viable, get some display space, and
then put out an appeal to enthusiasts.
cheers
Jules
This helps me understand why there is very little reponse to my JUST A BUCK
campaign asking for $1 from each person that visit's the museum website.
There seems to be very little(if any) help for start-ups in the museum
sector. I have seem two computer museum starts-ups get large funding help
but the people starting them were already rich and their friends gave big
bucks ( 1 million or more).
11 Jul
11 Jul
3:13 p.m.
This sounds really great, a good match of ponderous resources and
local talent.
On Sun, 10 Jul 2005, 'Computer Collector Newsletter' wrote:
Out here in NJ, we've been extremely lucky with
the new-ish local club,
MARCH (Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists). There's a new science
musuem being built at a former army base, they already have official
non-profit status, and they even inherited an existing computer collection.
They found our group, and we found them, via mutual contacts at the Trenton
Computer Festival. Turns out they wanted to find a group of people who
could manage their collection. So basically they are "giving" us a museum
to run. A few of us already toured the base and they've got dozens and
dozens of acres of land and empty buildings. At one point they took us to a
building called "the library" (the base was also a college at one point) and
they said, oh, that building's yours! We also learned that part of the
collection we're getting includes an actual ENIAC card. Cool!
Our club isn't listed yet, but the facility itself is at infoage.org (our
club is temporarily at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/ ) ...
I guess the moral of all this is that it's helpful to make computer museums
part of existing, related facilities, rather than trying to start from
scratch.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Keys
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 12:29 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only
Subject: Re: Computer Museum
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jules Richardson" <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: Computer Museum
Personally I wouldn't give anything to anyone who didn't have space
for it already though - they should be able to amass enough of a
collection first to know if it's viable, get some display space, and
then put out an appeal to enthusiasts.
cheers
Jules
This helps me understand why there is very little reponse to my JUST A BUCK
campaign asking for $1 from each person that visit's the museum website.
There seems to be very little(if any) help for start-ups in the museum
sector. I have seem two computer museum starts-ups get large funding help
but the people starting them were already rich and their friends gave big
bucks ( 1 million or more).
6946
days inactive
6951
days old
21 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
allain＠panix.com -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
csmuseum＠cse.uta.edu -
david_comley＠yahoo.com -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
jrkeys＠concentric.net -
julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk -
lbickley＠bickleywest.com -
news＠computercollector.com -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
tomj＠wps.com