29 Sep
2010
29 Sep
'10
8:43 p.m.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230532269086
I don't know how he does this, but the auction starting price went up $10 as soon as I
started
watching the auction.
It has happened TWICE now on relists of the same item.
29 Sep
29 Sep
8:47 p.m.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230532269086
I don't know how he does this, but the auction starting price went up
$10 as soon as I started
watching the auction.
Didn't happen to me. Perhaps the seller just happened to change it when
you were online?
9:11 p.m.
I don't know how he does this, but the auction
starting price went up
$10 as soon as I started watching the auction.
He goes in and changes it. It shows in the revision history.
You're not doing ebay watches, are you? Can't _imagine_ why anyone
would want to give ebay or the seller hard data on interest.
De
9:44 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Boone" <drb at msu.edu>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: Latest eBay seller BS
Why is that? I watch all kinds of items (hard to keep track otherwise). Some
I might bid on, others I just want to see the ending price. There are many
auctions with ebay watchers that never even bid the first time around.
I don't
know how he does this, but the auction starting price went up
$10 as soon as I started watching the auction.
He goes in and changes it. It shows in the revision history.
You're not doing ebay watches, are you? Can't _imagine_ why anyone
would want to give ebay or the seller hard data on interest.
De 
10:01 p.m.
On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 9:44 PM, Teo Zenios <teoz at neo.rr.com> wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Boone" <drb at msu.edu>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: Latest eBay seller BS
Why is that? I watch all kinds of items (hard to keep track otherwise). Some
I might bid on, others I just want to see the ending price. There are many
auctions with ebay watchers that never even bid the first time around.
Same here. On more than one occasion, if the item doesn't sell the
seller will relist it at a lower price.
Mark
I
don't know how he does this, but the auction starting price went up
$10 as soon as I started watching the auction.
He goes in and changes it. ?It shows in the revision history.
You're not doing ebay watches, are you? ?Can't _imagine_ why anyone
would want to give ebay or the seller hard data on interest.
De 
10:05 p.m.
On 9/30/10 1:01 AM, Mark Davidson wrote:
Why is that? I watch all kinds of items (hard to keep track otherwise). Some
I might bid on, others I just want to see the ending price. There are many
auctions with ebay watchers that never even bid the first time around.
Same here. On more than one occasion, if the item doesn't sell the
seller will relist it at a lower price.
...but that's much less likely to happen if they know there's a lot
of interest in the item, which is exactly what you're showing him/her
with a large number of watchers.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
I don't
know how he does this, but the auction starting price went up
$10 as soon as I started watching the auction.
He goes in and changes it. It shows in the revision history.
You're not doing ebay watches, are you? Can't _imagine_ why anyone
would want to give ebay or the seller hard data on interest.
10:31 p.m.
Same here. On
more than one occasion, if the item doesn't sell the
seller will relist it at a lower price.
...but that's much less likely to happen if they know there's a lot of
interest in the item, which is exactly what you're showing him/her with a
large number of watchers.
-Dave
10:45 p.m.
On 9/30/10 1:31 AM, Teo Zenios wrote:
Happens all the time, they want the item to sell (relisting fees cost
money) so they will eventually drop the price or just trash the item (if
they think there is no market at all).
If you have a car for sale in your front yard and 20 people come to look
it over in a month but nobody offers to buy it at your price you will
eventually lower it to get rid of it (thinking the item is wanted but
the price is just too high).
Again speaking as a frequent seller, this really isn't the same
thing. Twenty people stopping by to see it is very different from the
same twenty people driving by severa times per day to see if it has sold
yet. One registers interest, the other does not. I personally drop my
prices significantly on a re-list (as well as revisit my auction text
and title wording) if there were no watchers.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Same here. On more than one occasion, if the item
doesn't sell the
seller will relist it at a lower price.
...but that's much less likely to happen if they know there's a lot of
interest in the item, which is exactly what you're showing him/her
with a large number of watchers.
10:03 p.m.
On 9/30/10 12:44 AM, Teo Zenios wrote:
Why is that? I watch all kinds of items (hard to keep track otherwise).
Some I might bid on, others I just want to see the ending price. There
are many auctions with ebay watchers that never even bid the first time
around.
So leave the auction open in a browser tab until it ends. When
sellers (I'm speaking here as a frequent seller) see that there's lots
of interest in an item, they're less likely to relist an item at a lower
price...and FAR less likely to edit an existing listing to raise the
starting price.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
I don't know how he does this, but the auction
starting price went up
$10 as soon as I started watching the auction.
He goes in and changes it. It shows in the revision history.
You're not doing ebay watches, are you? Can't _imagine_ why anyone
would want to give ebay or the seller hard data on interest. 
30 Sep
30 Sep
11:18 a.m.
So leave the auction open in a browser tab until it
ends. When
DOens't that imply yo uhave a machine left running all the time, probably
connected to the internet all the time? That's a luxury that not all of
us have.
sellers (I'm speaking here as a frequent seller)
see that there's lots
of interest in an item, they're less likely to relist an item at a lower
price...and FAR less likely to edit an existing listing to raise the
starting price.
Hang on a second. If you list something with a starting bid of, say, $50
and you notice that plenty of people are wathcing the item and yet nobody
bids on it, doesnt; this suggest your starting bid is too high?
-tony
12:31 p.m.
On 9/30/10 2:18 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
I guess I just don't get that.
Maybe. But if NOBODY is watching it, it very clearly says either
nobody is interested in that particular item, or (if I know it's an item
of interest) the starting bid is too high. Watchers indicate SOME level
of interest. Sellers will usually drop prices if there is NO interest,
and will be more reluctant to drop prices (and just try it again) if
there is SOME interest.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
So leave
the auction open in a browser tab until it ends. When
DOens't that imply yo uhave a machine left running all the time, probably
connected to the internet all the time? That's a luxury that not all of
us have. sellers
(I'm speaking here as a frequent seller) see that there's lots
of interest in an item, they're less likely to relist an item at a lower
price...and FAR less likely to edit an existing listing to raise the
starting price.
Hang on a second. If you list something with a starting bid of, say, $50
and you notice that plenty of people are wathcing the item and yet nobody
bids on it, doesnt; this suggest your starting bid is too high? 
1:57 p.m.
On 30 Sep 2010 at 16:39, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
Tony Duell wrote:
Yup, there are some sections where sniping seems to be de-facto order
(e.g. oriental rugs).
As much as many people hate the practice, I see no difference between
sniping and sealed-bid auctions. Just bid what you're prepared to
pay.
--Chuck
Hang on a second. If you list something with a
starting bid of, say,
$50 and you notice that plenty of people are wathcing the item and
yet nobody bids on it, doesnt; this suggest your starting bid is too
high?
Or they're all snipers.
2:03 p.m.
On 9/30/10 4:57 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Yup, there are some sections where sniping seems to be de-facto order
(e.g. oriental rugs).
As much as many people hate the practice, I see no difference between
sniping and sealed-bid auctions. Just bid what you're prepared to
pay.
...but if you want to pay LESS, snipe.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Hang on a second. If you list something with a
starting bid of, say,
$50 and you notice that plenty of people are wathcing the item and
yet nobody bids on it, doesnt; this suggest your starting bid is too
high?
Or they're all snipers.
2:14 p.m.
On 30 Sep 2010 at 17:03, Dave McGuire wrote:
...but if you want to pay LESS, snipe.
That was what I implied by "bid". A snipe is nothing more than a bid
that happens a short time before closing.
There are still some online auctions that extend the bidding every
time a bid is received (uBid, ISTR. I can't recall how OnSale
worked). Those can be very frustrating. You think you've gotten
something and the auction gets extended again and again...
--Chuck
2:20 p.m.
On 9/30/10 4:14 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 30 Sep 2010 at 17:03, Dave McGuire wrote:
One of my friends always says "You can either work with what you got,
or not."
I have a LOT of stuff, computer stuff and otherwise, that I wouldn't
have if Ebay didn't exist. It's never perfect and sometimes it's
infuriating, but it does get the job done.
Doc
...but if you want to pay LESS, snipe.
That was what I implied by "bid". A snipe is nothing more than a bid
that happens a short time before closing.
There are still some online auctions that extend the bidding every
time a bid is received (uBid, ISTR. I can't recall how OnSale
worked). Those can be very frustrating. You think you've gotten
something and the auction gets extended again and again... 
2:28 p.m.
In article <4CA49B3F.22553.11F0FAB at cclist.sydex.com>,
"Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> writes:
On 30 Sep 2010 at 17:03, Dave McGuire wrote:
...on an auction system that doesn't extend the closing time.
Other on-line auction sites extend the closing time until bids stop
coming.
Sniping only works on ebay because bidding activity doesn't move the
closing time.
Its as if you were at an in-person auction and someone bid right
between the "going" and "gone" and the auctioneer pointed to that
last
bidder and said "sold!" to that last bidder without giving anyone else
a chance to bid. This is what feels off about sniping compared to
what most people expect in an auction.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
...but if you want to pay LESS, snipe.
That was what I implied by "bid". A snipe is nothing more than a bid
that happens a short time before closing. 
2:46 p.m.
The problem is there are people that don't understand the proxy bidding process
on eBay and therefore circumvent it by placing their own incremental bids. Once
they get to wherever they feel like the max they're willing to pay is, they quit
bidding period. I feel like most of these bidders aren't really serious, so why
give them the opportunity to run the bid up for you? Bid early, bid often is a
bad strategy for eBay. Bidding at the last possible second will save you money.
________________________________
From: Richard <legalize at xmission.com>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>;
Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com>
Sent: Thu, September 30, 2010 4:28:50 PM
Subject: Re: Latest eBay seller BS
In article <4CA49B3F.22553.11F0FAB at cclist.sydex.com>,
"Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> writes:
On 30 Sep 2010 at 17:03, Dave McGuire wrote:
...on an auction system that doesn't extend the closing time.
Other on-line auction sites extend the closing time until bids stop
coming.
Sniping only works on ebay because bidding activity doesn't move the
closing time.
Its as if you were at an in-person auction and someone bid right
between the "going" and "gone" and the auctioneer pointed to that
last
bidder and said "sold!" to that last bidder without giving anyone else
a chance to bid. This is what feels off about sniping compared to
what most people expect in an auction.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
...but if you want to pay LESS, snipe.
That was what I implied by "bid". A snipe is nothing more than a bid
that happens a short time before closing.
3:06 p.m.
Who appointed you god of ebay bidding? If you don't like the way
other people bid on ebay, then don't use it. That goes for sniping
and non-sniping bidding alike.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
3:33 p.m.
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010, Richard wrote:
Who appointed you god of ebay bidding? If you
don't like the way
other people bid on ebay, then don't use it. That goes for sniping
and non-sniping bidding alike.
LOL! As long as the problem isn't shill bidding an the like I couldn't
agree more. Sniping is basically built into the system. If I can't be
online when it ends to snipe an auction I typically won't bid. Right now I
have a real problem, an auction with a part I need badly ends at 6:15am on
Saturday. There is no way I'm getting up that early, do I bid, or wait for
another to show up... Yes, I know there are services and applications that
will do the sniping for me, but I choose not to use them, I save money that
way since I win fewer auctions! :-)
Zane
3:40 p.m.
On 9/30/10 5:33 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
Sniping is basically built into the system.
Note that "sniping" (or at least a form of it) isn't strictly an ebay
phenomenon. When I was attending many live auctions in days of yore, I
would employ a similar strategy, let the other folks determine a
baseline for your bid and wait for most of the other bidders to drop
out. Someone mentioned bidding at "going", I would do exactly that.
Obviously the main difference is that the bidding would then continue,
but it's a similar notion. Silent auctions also frequently work this
way, it's usually better to not drive the price up yourself by
continuously bidding against someone else, wait until it gets close to
the end and then engage in battle.
1 Oct
1 Oct
2:35 p.m.
LOL! As long as the problem isn't shill bidding
an the like I couldn't
agree more. Sniping is basically built into the system. If I can't be
online when it ends to snipe an auction I typically won't bid. Right now I
have a real problem, an auction with a part I need badly ends at 6:15am on
Saturday. There is no way I'm getting up that early, do I bid, or wait for
I don;t get this. Why don't you simple do what E-bay origianlly intended
you to do. Decide what that part is worth to you and bid that ammount. If
you win it, you've got it for a price less than you think it's worth (so
you've 'won'), if somevody outbids you (whether a 'snipe' or not),
well,
they were prepared to pay moe for it than you were. It happens.
OK, I don;t use E-bay as much as most people here, I guess, but so far
I've done the above. NEver sniped. Of course I am sometimes outbid. I
would expect to me. But I do win things. Probably more than I am outbid
on, acutally.
-tony
30 Sep
30 Sep
3:09 p.m.
Its as if you were at an in-person auction and someone
bid right
between the "going" and "gone" and the auctioneer pointed to that
last
bidder and said "sold!" to that last bidder without giving anyone else
a chance to bid. ?This is what feels off about sniping compared to
what most people expect in an auction.
In real live auctions, such dramatic bidding almost never happens.
There are plenty of late bidders, but they chime in before the whole
"going" bit starts.
So I can see why Ebay has a fixed time limit. And I like it this way -
I know when my auctions are ending, and can plan my life and business
accordingly.
--
Will
3:15 p.m.
In article <AANLkTinW35xco+Qtctzh4ruxo5ZuJMgxoMjzeiyPn=Lq at mail.gmail.com>,
William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> writes:
So I can see why Ebay has a fixed time limit. And I
like it this way -
I know when my auctions are ending, and can plan my life and business
accordingly.
There are plusses and minuses to both kinds of system (fixed ending
date and sliding end date). However, most of the buyers on ebay are
the general public and they have this "going going gone!" mental image
of auctions. That mental image doesn't match ebay's exact auctioning
process, which is why sniping leaves a bad taste in most people's
mouths. Ironically, its because people get burnt on sniping that they
bid early and "drive up the price" on the snipers. To the snipers
that don't like those "incremental bidders", I say: tough. You're
getting that behavior from people as a response to your sniping, so
just quit griping.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
3:27 p.m.
?However, most of the buyers on ebay are
the general public and they have this "going going gone!" mental image
of auctions. ?That mental image doesn't match ebay's exact auctioning
process, which is why sniping leaves a bad taste in most people's
mouths.
I think these days most of the bidders that matter snipe (manually or
with a service) or do not care.
Four or five years ago, I used to time my auctions so that they would
end when people are likely to be home for the evening or in front of
their computer at work. I found there were two sweet spots during the
weekdays - 2-3 PM and 9:30-11 PM EST. These would cover the US quite
nicely. There was a real difference in hammer prices if I strayed out
of these two spots for whatever various reasons. This is no longer the
case. There are no more real sweet spots, and hammer prices are not so
dependent on timing, yet the last minute bids still pile up. This is
telling me that far more people snipe today than five years ago.
And, as an informal survey in my head, it seems that nearly all of my
friends snipe, including the ones that are pretty low key.
--
Will
3:31 p.m.
On 9/30/10 5:27 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
Four or five years ago, I used to time my auctions so
that they would
end when people are likely to be home for the evening or in front of
their computer at work. I found there were two sweet spots during the
weekdays - 2-3 PM and 9:30-11 PM EST. These would cover the US quite
nicely. There was a real difference in hammer prices if I strayed out
of these two spots for whatever various reasons. This is no longer the
case. There are no more real sweet spots, and hammer prices are not so
dependent on timing, yet the last minute bids still pile up. This is
telling me that far more people snipe today than five years ago.
And, as an informal survey in my head, it seems that nearly all of my
friends snipe, including the ones that are pretty low key.
Don't forget the "smartphone" effect as well. With an iphone (or
other)
and a web browser or dedicated app, you don't have to be tied to your
computer or a network (other than cellular) anymore. Folks can
literally bid from almost anywhere now.
8:32 p.m.
In article <09d001cb60f3$538dc330$0600000a at portajara>,
"Alexandre Souza - Listas" <pu1bzz.listas at gmail.com> writes:
AFAIK, this is the only way to get cheap things :)
Nope.
I've gotten plenty of things cheap without sniping.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
9:40 p.m.
On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 8:32 PM, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
In article <09d001cb60f3$538dc330$0600000a at portajara>,
? ?"Alexandre Souza - Listas" <pu1bzz.listas at gmail.com> writes:
Agreed. I've managed to find lots of bargains without sniping...
especially in books. I've found a bunch of great, usually expensive
books on compilers and AI for very little money.
Mark
? ? AFAIK, this is the only way to get cheap
things :)
Nope.
I've gotten plenty of things cheap without sniping. 
1 Oct
1 Oct
6:20 a.m.
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:40 AM, Mark Davidson <mdavidson1963 at gmail.com>wrote:
Agreed. I've managed to find lots of bargains without sniping...
especially in books. I've found a bunch of great, usually expensive
books on compilers and AI for very little money.
I've found plenty of [used] books online very inexpensively *without*
without resorting to eBay. Manuals are another issue though. Not everything
is canned yet :)
=Dan
--http://www.vintagecomputer.net/ragooman/
9:24 a.m.
actually I've found that E-Pay can be used quite effectively for
aquiring books... particularly the seller of the item that triggered
this thread. They do the research and offer books that are notable or
collectable.. Use that info to find the book on Amazon - usually at a
much better price than the BIN or starting offer.
steve
On 10/1/2010 6:20 AM, Dan Roganti wrote:
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:40 AM, Mark
Davidson<mdavidson1963 at gmail.com>wrote
Agreed. I've managed to find lots of bargains without sniping...
especially in books. I've found a bunch of great, usually expensive
books on compilers and AI for very little money.
I've found plenty of [used] books online very inexpensively *without*
without resorting to eBay. Manuals are another issue though. Not everything
is canned yet :)
=Dan
--http://www.vintagecomputer.net/ragooman/
10:07 a.m.
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 9:24 AM, steve shumaker <shumaker at att.net> wrote:
actually I've found that E-Pay can be used quite
effectively for aquiring
books... particularly the seller of the item that triggered this thread.
?They do the research and offer books that are notable or collectable..
Use that info to find the book on Amazon - usually at a much better price
than the BIN or starting offer.
Oh, no doubt... I usually check both to see who has the better price. :)
Mark
10:24 a.m.
On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, Mark Davidson wrote:
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 9:24 AM, steve shumaker
<shumaker at att.net> wrote:
Also http://www.abebooks.com
Zane
actually I've found that E-Pay can be used
quite effectively for aquiring
books... particularly the seller of the item that triggered this thread.
?They do the research and offer books that are notable or collectable..
Use that info to find the book on Amazon - usually at a much better price
than the BIN or starting offer.
Oh, no doubt... I usually check both to see who has the better price. :) 
30 Sep
30 Sep
3:38 p.m.
On Thursday 30 September 2010, Richard wrote:
To the snipers that don't like those
"incremental bidders", I say:
tough. You're getting that behavior from people as a response to
your sniping, so just quit griping.
I think you missed the point. Incremental bidders are a problem for
people who *don't* snipe. If you put in a snipe bid, people don't get a
chance to incrementally bid against you, and you tend to get the item
for a lower price than if they had sniped or put in their max bid price.
Sniping is only a problem for those who haven't figured out how to make
ebay bidding work for them. :)
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
4:05 p.m.
In article <201009301838.47738.pat at computer-refuge.org>,
Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org> writes:
I think you missed the point.
Nope.
The sniper was complaining that incremental bidders were driving up
the price and he wasn't getting his "good deal" by sniping. I say:
tough.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
4:32 p.m.
On 9/30/2010 4:05 PM, Richard wrote:Yeah!
On 9/30/2010 1:42 PM, Kent Rieger wrote:
FYI - so far so good.
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Stuart.R.Holland at sce.com <mailto:Stuart.R.Holland at sce.com>
*To:* Kent Rieger <mailto:kent at world-solutions-inc.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, September 30, 2010 3:24 PM
*Subject:* Re: Fw: Fw: GMCStars on z/OS 1.12
So far, no abends. It only has a couple of days of continuous running.
It never made it through a full day before, though.
Stuart Holland
(626) 302-7209
PAX 27209
In article<201009301838.47738.pat at computer-refuge.org>,
Patrick Finnegan<pat at computer-refuge.org> writes:
The gist of the thread was that the price was driven up if you put in
your "snipe" bid and allowed it to be chewed on by squirrels.
Increasing the bid on eBay requires two bidders, so if I leave out my
bid till the end, both of us (or all of us) simply throw our cards on
the table and the one with the highest bid wins.
I don't care if it happens that way, but I do not care to have anyone
make other bids knowing what I am willing to pay and that information is
visible as bids are made with your maximum amount out there (as in not
sniping).
If a shill puts in a bid, then has another shill chew up the action to
make it look interesting, that is unethical and illegal. I think some
sellers think that makes the less skilled bidders want to jump in.
Again sniping trumps that, as if they stop with a bid that
is lower than I was willing to pay, tough.
I agree with the others, I hate to see this and usually avoid items and
sellers who have this activity if at all possible. It usually means
other trouble post sale (non delivery, etc.)
Jim
I think you missed the point.
Nope.
The sniper was complaining that incremental bidders were driving up
the price and he wasn't getting his "good deal" by sniping. I say:
tough. 
7:27 p.m.
Richard wrote:
In article<201009301838.47738.pat at
computer-refuge.org>,
Patrick Finnegan<pat at computer-refuge.org> writes:
My argument to that is that he's driving the price up for the sniper and
getting nothing in return. It's just plain stupid.
Peace... Sridhar
I think you missed the point.
Nope.
The sniper was complaining that incremental bidders were driving up
the price and he wasn't getting his "good deal" by sniping. I say:
tough.
8:11 p.m.
[Nit: can't we just post to the list, folks? Why do you need to cc:
me a private copy?]
In article <4CA54726.5000800 at gmail.com>,
Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> writes:
My argument to that is that he's driving the price
up for the sniper and
getting nothing in return. It's just plain stupid.
The whole point of sniping is that noone knows you're doing it. From
the incrmental bidder's perspective, he's not "ruining it for the
sniper" since there is, by definition, no way to know there's a sniper
waiting until 5 seconds before close to bid. To the sniper I say: tough.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
3:31 p.m.
On 9/30/10 5:28 PM, Richard wrote:
Its as if you were at an in-person auction and someone
bid right
between the "going" and "gone" and the auctioneer pointed to that
last
bidder and said "sold!" to that last bidder without giving anyone else
a chance to bid. This is what feels off about sniping compared to
what most people expect in an auction.
"What most people expect in an auction", I suspect, is pretty
different from what it was fifteen years ago, due primarily to eBay. I
am willing to bet that more transactions are conducted per year on eBay
than have been conducted at traditional auctions across the entirety of
recorded history.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
29 Sep
29 Sep
10:15 p.m.
In article <47BD129EBA944278B51D5849ECB42ADA at dell8300>,
"Teo Zenios" <teoz at neo.rr.com> writes:
Why is that? I watch all kinds of items (hard to keep
track otherwise). Some
I might bid on, others I just want to see the ending price. There are many
auctions with ebay watchers that never even bid the first time around.
I do the same thing. I routinely watch auctions that never get a bid
and watch plenty of things on which I never bid. I watch them so that
I can keep an idea on what kinds of prices are being fetched for
certain kinds of items. Other times I just watch to see if anyone is
stupid to bid on an inflated price.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
30 Sep
30 Sep
6:31 a.m.
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
From: drb at msu.edu
Subject: Re: Latest eBay seller BS
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 00:11:23 -0400
Hi
Until the first persom bids, the seller can change the price, description or anything
they want without a history change.
Dwight
I don't know how he does this, but the
auction starting price went up
$10 as soon as I started watching the auction.
He goes in and changes it. It shows in the revision history.
You're not doing ebay watches, are you? Can't _imagine_ why anyone
would want to give ebay or the seller hard data on interest.
De
9:42 a.m.
On 9/29/10 9:11 PM, Dennis Boone wrote:
You're not doing ebay watches, are you?
I am REALLY starting to think there is a market for an alternative to
eBay search/monitoring geared to BUYERS.
Things I'd like to see
- blacklisting of sellers so I NEVER see their overpriced listings
- private monitoring of auctions
- notification if a seller EVER raises the starting price of an item
Of course, no one would be willing to PAY for this, so the first thing
that would happen is they'd start selling the statistics to sellers..
10:13 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Kossow" <aek at bitsavers.org>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: Latest eBay seller BS
On 9/29/10 9:11 PM, Dennis Boone wrote:
The only thing I would like to see is a way of booting sellers using shills.
You're not doing ebay watches, are you?
I am REALLY starting to think there is a market for an alternative to
eBay search/monitoring geared to BUYERS.
Things I'd like to see
- blacklisting of sellers so I NEVER see their overpriced listings
- private monitoring of auctions
- notification if a seller EVER raises the starting price of an item
Of course, no one would be willing to PAY for this, so the first thing
that would happen is they'd start selling the statistics to sellers..
10:17 a.m.
On 9/30/10, Teo Zenios <teoz at neo.rr.com> wrote:
The only thing I would like to see is a way of booting
sellers using shills.
I ran into lots of that with some of the bulk and surplus reseller
auctions a while back (Buycomp.com, etc). I gave up. It's just too
obvious when someone comes in and buys 500 items at the floor price on
a Dutch Auction when only 1/3 of the goods are allocated to the
existing buyers (i.e., the seller wasn't going to have to sell a
partial load at the opening price).
I've seen a bunch of shill bidding on eBay too, but I guess since I
bid on less than one thing a month, I don't see it as often as I used
to.
-ethan
12:11 p.m.
The only thing I would like to see is a way of booting
sellers using shills.
Every auction since some ancient Greek wanted the enhance the price of
his sheep has had shills. Ebay does kick shills off when they catch
them - they just do not advertise an account cancellation as "Caught
Shilling". "Administrative Cancellation" sounds more sterile but safe
for business.
And as well seasoned veteran, my observation is that the whole shill
concern is quite overblown. It is just not nearly as common as some
would like to believe. It is easy to blame a shill than to come to
grips that lots of others with deep pockets like this stuff as well.
--
Will
12:30 p.m.
On 9/30/10, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
Yes. The difference is that when everyone is in the same room, a
veteran bidder can spot signs, recognize familiar faces, etc. This is
not as easy with a virtual auction.
The only thing
I would like to see is a way of booting sellers using
shills.
Every auction since some ancient Greek wanted the enhance the price of
his sheep has had shills. Ebay does kick shills off when they catch
them - they just do not advertise an account cancellation as "Caught
Shilling". "Administrative Cancellation" sounds more sterile but safe
for business.
Sure... when they catch them.
And as well seasoned veteran, my observation is that
the whole shill
concern is quite overblown. It is just not nearly as common as some
would like to believe. It is easy to blame a shill than to come to
grips that lots of others with deep pockets like this stuff as well.
When there are 3-4 bidders with 0-1 feedback that jump in and nudge
the price up in several increments to exhaust the max bid of the
present winner, that's not the same as someone with dozens of hundreds
of feedback _on similar items_ coming in with one bid that blows past
any competition.
I've been outbid by lots of folks with deeper pockets than mine (there
are plenty of them out there). I've also been seen clear evidence of
bid-rigging on auctions I was bidding on. When I see it, I'm done.
More than one of those auctions has been "won" by the 12-hour-old
account with zero feedback. I presume the item then gets relisted. I
wouldn't know. I'm done with that seller.
-ethan
12:35 p.m.
On 9/30/10 3:30 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
One thing they do specifically check for is bids for an item coming
Ebay does kick
shills off when they catch
them - they just do not advertise an account cancellation as "Caught
Shilling". "Administrative Cancellation" sounds more sterile but safe
for business.
Sure... when they catch them. from the same IP address that the listing was initiated
from, or from
the same browser (via cookies). This obviously will result in
occasional false positives.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
12:48 p.m.
Yes. ?The difference is that when everyone is in the
same room, a
veteran bidder can spot signs, recognize familiar faces, etc. ?This is
not as easy with a virtual auction.
Another veteran bidder can also bid very discretely - and I am not
talking about the winks and noserubs that work in televisionland.
Still another bidder can get a friend to do the bidding (completely
legal and ethical) using his original paddle. Yet another bidder can
move around the room between bids, and get lost in the crowd.
In a real live auction with serious players, it can be very difficult
to see who you may be up against.
The one thing that I will praise EBay for (and being how much I hate
Ebay, that is saying something) - at least the auctioneer is
impartial. Just a few weeks ago I was at a radio estate auction where
the auctioneer missed a number of my bids, and banged the gavel a bit
too quickly for his buddies benefit.
When there are 3-4 bidders with 0-1 feedback that jump
in and nudge
the price up in several increments to exhaust the max bid of the
present winner, that's not the same as someone with dozens of hundreds
of feedback _on similar items_ coming in with one bid that blows past
any competition.
Lets be honest - how often does that really happen? We have all seen
it once or twice, or maybe a bunch of times if you live on Ebay, but
what percentage of the auctions are really like that?
This is the "overblown" aspect I mentioned - for every auction you
describe with these potential shills, there are *thousands* that are
normal.
One more thing - experienced shills do not register a day before their
target auctions, but hang around for weeks before. Inexperienced
shills will register right before an auction - and they are the ones
that get caught.
--
Will
1:21 p.m.
On 9/30/10, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
It can be, but my assertion is merely that it's more difficult than
that with a virtual auction. There, the only thing you have is IP
addresses and whatever eBay cares to let you know about the bidders
(less now, with their obscuration policies)
Of all the auctions of all time everywhere? Probably pretty few. Of
the items I've personally bid on? More than merely "a bunch of
times".
I don't bid on dozens of things a month - my habits are far more
selective (my eBay feedback count is under 100 and I had an account on
"AuctionWeb" before it was eBay). Very specifically, I rarely bid on
anything that isn't classic computer related, and much more often than
other products, on 12-bit DEC gear.
Yes. The
difference is that when everyone is in the same room, a
veteran bidder can spot signs, recognize familiar faces, etc.
In a real live auction with serious players, it can be very difficult
to see who you may be up against. The one thing that I will praise EBay for (and being
how much I hate
Ebay, that is saying something) - at least the auctioneer is
impartial. Just a few weeks ago I was at a radio estate auction where
the auctioneer missed a number of my bids, and banged the gavel a bit
too quickly for his buddies benefit.
That's certainly true. I have been to numerous estate auctions, and
the auctioneer has a lot of ability to control the flow of things,
push to get the bids up, direct the win at a particular bidder, etc.
When there are
3-4 bidders with 0-1 feedback that jump in and nudge
the price up in several increments to exhaust the max bid of the
present winner, that's not the same as someone with dozens of hundreds
of feedback _on similar items_ coming in with one bid that blows past
any competition.
Lets be honest - how often does that really happen? We have all seen
it once or twice, or maybe a bunch of times if you live on Ebay, but
what percentage of the auctions are really like that? This is the "overblown" aspect I mentioned -
for every auction you
describe with these potential shills, there are *thousands* that are
normal.
Across all of eBay, almost certainly. I'm not claiming that all of
eBay sucks for everyone equally. I'm merely pointing things that I
have personally experienced (vs repeating stories of others) and found
unpleasant enough to impact my use of their services.
One more thing - experienced shills do not register a
day before their
target auctions, but hang around for weeks before. Inexperienced
shills will register right before an auction - and they are the ones
that get caught.
No argument there. If I can spot them, they aren't that sophisticated.
-ethan
3:03 p.m.
It can be, but my assertion is merely that it's
more difficult than
that with a virtual auction. ?There, the only thing you have is IP
addresses and whatever eBay cares to let you know about the bidders
(less now, with their obscuration policies)
The Ebay police have much more than just IP address - they have
registration info and access to all sorts of databases we mortals do
not.
That's certainly true. ?I have been to numerous
estate auctions, and
the auctioneer has a lot of ability to control the flow of things,
push to get the bids up, direct the win at a particular bidder, etc.
And pulling bids out of thin air.
Of all the auctions of all time everywhere? ?Probably
pretty few. ?Of
the items I've personally bid on? ?More than merely "a bunch of
times".
Give me some estimated percentages.
Across all of eBay, almost certainly. ?I'm not
claiming that all of
eBay sucks for everyone equally. ?I'm merely pointing things that I
have personally experienced (vs repeating stories of others) and found
unpleasant enough to impact my use of their services.
Yes, unpleasant experiences tend to get exaggerated, and weigh far
more than they really are.
--
Will
2:08 p.m.
On 30 Sep 2010 at 15:48, William Donzelli wrote:
The one thing that I will praise EBay for (and being
how much I hate
Ebay, that is saying something) - at least the auctioneer is
impartial. Just a few weeks ago I was at a radio estate auction where
the auctioneer missed a number of my bids, and banged the gavel a bit
too quickly for his buddies benefit.
Local government real-estate auctions sometimes work like this.
Although the time and place of the auction is publicized, you often
have to have sharp eyes to spot a small group of what appears to be
lawyers having a friendly and quiet chat on the courthouse steps...
--Chuck
1 Oct
1 Oct
1:55 p.m.
I've been outbid by lots of folks with deeper
pockets than mine (there
are plenty of them out there). I've also been seen clear evidence of
OK, I do the naive thing and put in the maxiumum I am prepared to pay for
the item when I first bid. If somevbody else outbids me, I am not really
upset fro long.. It jsut means they were prepared ot pay more than I was.
No problem
bid-rigging on auctions I was bidding on. When I see
it, I'm done.
More than one of those auctions has been "won" by the 12-hour-old
account with zero feedback. I presume the item then gets relisted. I
wouldn't know. I'm done with that seller.
There is a scam (I believe) that's been tried on me a couple of times. It
goes like this :
1) Seller (legitimately) lists item)
2) Several people bid on it (legitimately)
3) In the last few seconds a shill puts in an outlandish bid (say $1000
for a itme that noone would pay more than $50 for). Of course he wins it
4) The shill bid is withdreawn by 'mutual ageeement' giving reasons like
'The buyer didn't realise it wasn't <foo>'.
5) But the seller now knows the highest legitimate bid limit. He then
offers the item to that buyer at that price. Point being, he's getting
that bid limit, not the real high bid (one incement over the second
highest bid limit)
Logically, the buyer should be prepared to pay for the item (by having
that bid limit he's saying that he thinks the item is worth that much).
But I sstill feel it's a scam,
-tony
3:07 p.m.
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
That's the same thinking that I have. I put in my max bid and if
someone outbids me, they outbid me. I've bid on something like
"Logitech Modula/2 for OS/2", which I wanted. A lot. But I wasn't
willing to pay more than, say, $75 for it. Someone won the item for
almost $300. That's far more than I would ever have paid.
Mark
I've been
outbid by lots of folks with deeper pockets than mine (there
are plenty of them out there). ?I've also been seen clear evidence of
OK, I do the naive thing and put in the maxiumum I am prepared to pay for
the item when I first bid. If somevbody else outbids me, I am not really
upset fro long.. It jsut means they were prepared ot pay more than I was.
No problem
3:16 p.m.
In article <AANLkTikcnwGbyeEd2fCeF_aET44U_QwpQPEbvpHfG5Wv at mail.gmail.com>,
Mark Davidson <mdavidson1963 at gmail.com> writes:
That's far more than I would ever have paid.
...and the outcome would have been the same whether or not the person
who put down the $300 bid sniped or not.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
2 Oct
2 Oct
12:31 p.m.
That's the same thinking that I have. I put in my
max bid and if
someone outbids me, they outbid me. I've bid on something like
"Logitech Modula/2 for OS/2", which I wanted. A lot. But I wasn't
willing to pay more than, say, $75 for it. Someone won the item for
almost $300. That's far more than I would ever have paid.
And while it is momentarily disapoining when I'm the second-highest bidder
and I find the item sold for 'only $1 more than I was prepared to pay' (or
whatever the bid increment is), I then rememebr that I have no way of
knwoing what the high bidder's limit was. I was probslby otubit by a lot
more than $1.
-tony
2:39 p.m.
another issue I had was that I once bid on a car part, and won the bid, at
$1.00 (no reserve) and $25 shipping, so after winning he waited a week, then
when I asked about it, no response, just refunded the $26. The key here, is
if you don't want to sell it for $1, don't list it for $1, simply use a
reserve or put it at the actual price.
On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
That's the
same thinking that I have. I put in my max bid and if
someone outbids me, they outbid me. I've bid on something like
"Logitech Modula/2 for OS/2", which I wanted. A lot. But I wasn't
willing to pay more than, say, $75 for it. Someone won the item for
almost $300. That's far more than I would ever have paid.
And while it is momentarily disapoining when I'm the second-highest bidder
and I find the item sold for 'only $1 more than I was prepared to pay' (or
whatever the bid increment is), I then rememebr that I have no way of
knwoing what the high bidder's limit was. I was probslby otubit by a lot
more than $1.
-tony
10:53 p.m.
On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 2:39 PM, joe lobocki <jlobocki at gmail.com> wrote:
another issue I had was that I once bid on a car part,
and won the bid, at
$1.00 (no reserve) and $25 shipping, so after winning he waited a week, then
when I asked about it, no response, just refunded the $26. The key here, is
if you don't want to sell it for $1, don't list it for $1, simply use a
reserve or put it at the actual price.
A few weeks ago, I bid on a European-to-USA plug converter for a cheap
tablet I had bought from a company in China. Opening bid was 50 cents
with free shipping. I won and it cost me exactly 50 cents, and the
seller did ship it for free.
Mark
10:53 p.m.
On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 10:53 PM, Mark Davidson <mdavidson1963 at gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 2:39 PM, joe lobocki
<jlobocki at gmail.com> wrote:
Oh, and I should add that the seller was in Hong Kong, and he shipped
it air mail.
Mark
another issue I had was that I once bid on a car
part, and won the bid, at
$1.00 (no reserve) and $25 shipping, so after winning he waited a week, then
when I asked about it, no response, just refunded the $26. The key here, is
if you don't want to sell it for $1, don't list it for $1, simply use a
reserve or put it at the actual price.
A few weeks ago, I bid on a European-to-USA plug converter for a cheap
tablet I had bought from a company in China. ?Opening bid was 50 cents
with free shipping. ?I won and it cost me exactly 50 cents, and the
seller did ship it for free.
11:43 p.m.
Seems like some of those sellers get free shipping somehow. I won items that
winning amount could not have covered shipping.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Davidson" <mdavidson1963 at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 1:53 AM
Subject: Re: Latest eBay seller BS
On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 10:53 PM, Mark Davidson <mdavidson1963 at gmail.com>
wrote:
On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 2:39 PM, joe lobocki
<jlobocki at gmail.com> wrote:
Oh, and I should add that the seller was in Hong Kong, and he shipped
it air mail.
Mark
another issue I had was that I once bid on a car
part, and won the bid,
at
$1.00 (no reserve) and $25 shipping, so after winning he waited a week,
then
when I asked about it, no response, just refunded the $26. The key here,
is
if you don't want to sell it for $1, don't list it for $1, simply use a
reserve or put it at the actual price.
A few weeks ago, I bid on a European-to-USA plug converter for a cheap
tablet I had bought from a company in China. Opening bid was 50 cents
with free shipping. I won and it cost me exactly 50 cents, and the
seller did ship it for free.
3 Oct
3 Oct
10:07 a.m.
On 3 Oct 2010 at 2:43, Teo Zenios wrote:
Seems like some of those sellers get free shipping
somehow. I won
items that winning amount could not have covered shipping.
Airmail to the USA (I don't know about other countries) from Hongkong
is exceptionally cheap, thanks to some ham-handed negotiations on the
part of the US authorities. Since IPU (it's been renamed recently; I
don't recall the new name) agreements are essentially treaties, they
tend to change very slowly.
For a historical tack, cf. Charles Ponzi.
--Chuck
1 Oct
1 Oct
3:43 p.m.
On 1 Oct 2010 at 21:55, Tony Duell wrote:
OK, I do the naive thing and put in the maxiumum I am
prepared to pay
for the item when I first bid. If somevbody else outbids me, I am not
really upset fro long.. It jsut means they were prepared ot pay more
than I was. No problem
Back in the early days of eBay (when Paypal would *pay* you $20 to
join) I did my bidding using a dialup line and Mosaic, I became very
frustrated to be aced out by bidders with faster connections.
I purchased a software package that did sniping; it was better, but
my connection speed and quality still limited me--and eBay frowned on
sniping and changed its web pages several times in an attempt to
thwart auto-sniping software.
Eventually, I signed up with a new service called eSnipe and paid a
fee (1% of the winning bid with a cap at $100 gavel and nothing for
items under $25). I still use it and enjoy the original terms.
Since most of what I bid on is under $25, I haven't paid eSnipe a
cent in years. (New subscribers do not get the sweetheart deal).
I tell eSnipe to bid what I'm willing to pay. Sometimes I get the
item; other times, I don't. I don't get caught up in the final
minutes frenzy.
Exposing everyone's bid maximum during an auction would be like
playing poker with all cards showing. No fun.
All in all, eBay's kept a fairly honest game. Excite and Yahoo
auctions were rife with abuse--fortunately, they're gone--and good
riddance.
--Chuck
6:26 p.m.
In article <4CA601B7.8275.1759043 at cclist.sydex.com>,
"Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> writes:
Exposing everyone's bid maximum during an auction
would be like
playing poker with all cards showing. No fun.
Straw man argument. NOONE is suggesting that your maximum bid be
exposed during the auction.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
10:21 p.m.
On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, Tony Duell wrote:
3) In the last few seconds a shill puts in an
outlandish bid (say $1000
for a itme that noone would pay more than $50 for). Of course he wins it
4) The shill bid is withdreawn by 'mutual ageeement' giving reasons like
'The buyer didn't realise it wasn't <foo>'.
5) But the seller now knows the highest legitimate bid limit. He then
offers the item to that buyer at that price. Point being, he's getting
that bid limit, not the real high bid (one incement over the second
highest bid limit)
another variant:
3) well before the end, the shill puts in a completely ridiculous bid.
4) the active bid is moved to one increment over your bid.
5) the shill retracts the "mistaken" bid - "my keyboard stuck"
6) the shill, or shill#2, now places a bid just below yours, so that when
you win the auction, it is at your maximum bid.
11:07 p.m.
3) well before the end, the shill puts in a completely
ridiculous bid.
4) the active bid is moved to one increment over your bid.
5) the shill retracts the "mistaken" bid - "my keyboard stuck"
6) the shill, or shill#2, now places a bid just below yours, so that when
you win the auction, it is at your maximum bid.
This is a variant on "bid shielding", and is a well known pattern. It
sticks out like a sore thumb.
--
Will
2 Oct
2 Oct
8:48 a.m.
Fred Cisin wrote:
On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, Tony Duell wrote:
That's why I only 'snipe' bid on auctions. Chances of this happening
are
much rarer, and I only put in my snipe offer the most I am willing to
pay. Win many, loose some, usually much less than I was willing to offer.
If it is something very rare I still use the same process. The shill
bidders will pull out at the last few minutes and my bid is put in the
last second so no chance of shilling. If the shill looses by winning the
auction they will put the item up again later giving me another chance -
this time the auction usually is less as a number of people simply give
up and move on to something else...
I also don't watch the auction bids, otherwise I might get caught up in
the action and over-ride my snipe.
John :-#)#
3) In the last few seconds a shill puts in an
outlandish bid (say $1000
for a itme that noone would pay more than $50 for). Of course he wins it
4) The shill bid is withdreawn by 'mutual ageeement' giving reasons like
'The buyer didn't realise it wasn't <foo>'.
5) But the seller now knows the highest legitimate bid limit. He then
offers the item to that buyer at that price. Point being, he's getting
that bid limit, not the real high bid (one incement over the second
highest bid limit)
another variant:
3) well before the end, the shill puts in a completely ridiculous bid.
4) the active bid is moved to one increment over your bid.
5) the shill retracts the "mistaken" bid - "my keyboard stuck"
6) the shill, or shill#2, now places a bid just below yours, so that when
you win the auction, it is at your maximum bid.
30 Sep
30 Sep
12:50 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Donzelli" <wdonzelli at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: Latest eBay seller BS
I don't bid on rarities against people with deep pockets, I use ebay for
relatively common things I need to fix/finish some project or other. When I
bid on something like a junker Pentium laptop I wanted for parts that nobody
else has bid on 2 days left in the auction and 5 minutes later some recent
account with under 5 feedback incrementally bids until they top my bid
something is fishy. Every time I seen an auction for some common item going
for 5x what it should there is some new account with under 5 feedback doing
the same crap to every bidder (and usually there are 2 new accounts with low
feedback fighting over it). Sure you can say its some new people on ebay in
a bidding war, but this isn't 2001 anymore and that just doesn't happen very
often. Then a week later the same item/picture is relisted hoping for
somebody to bid on it and get it cheaper then the last final fake price.
There are usually enough real bidders to drive up prices for very uncommon
stuff so shilling isn't needed. The low end stuff is flooded with cheap BIN
auctions. Seems like larger (too big to ship from Asia cheaply) commodity
stuff is where sellers want to double their profit and do shilling.
The only thing
I would like to see is a way of booting sellers using
shills.
Every auction since some ancient Greek wanted the enhance the price of
his sheep has had shills. Ebay does kick shills off when they catch
them - they just do not advertise an account cancellation as "Caught
Shilling". "Administrative Cancellation" sounds more sterile but safe
for business.
And as well seasoned veteran, my observation is that the whole shill
concern is quite overblown. It is just not nearly as common as some
would like to believe. It is easy to blame a shill than to come to
grips that lots of others with deep pockets like this stuff as well.
--
Will
1:50 p.m.
In article <AANLkTimgUgDrEBK0RoCsGi9LxLnOCLk7EdQV7UMXcoGY at mail.gmail.com>,
William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> writes:
And as well seasoned veteran, my observation is that
the whole shill
concern is quite overblown. It is just not nearly as common as some
would like to believe. It is easy to blame a shill than to come to
grips that lots of others with deep pockets like this stuff as well.
Ditto.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
2:21 p.m.
William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> writes:
And as well seasoned veteran, my observation is that
the whole shill
concern is quite overblown. It is just not nearly as common as some
would like to believe. It is easy to blame a shill than to come to
grips that lots of others with deep pockets like this stuff as well.
I'm acquainted with a retired patent attorney who collects brass
musical instruments. When he moved from Idaho to Texas a few years
ago, his collection went in 11 moving vans.
When he spots something that he likes, he places a bid and it's like
a dog marking its territory. Since he has more money than time,
he'll outbid anyone who tries to bid against him.
No shill, he--just very deep pockets.
--Chuck
12:01 p.m.
On 9/30/10 9:42 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 9/29/10 9:11 PM, Dennis Boone wrote:
just thought of another thing..
Integration with something like streetprices.com, so you know what going
NEW price is.
I'm puzzled when people don't realize you can buy something NEW for less
than a bid price.
You're not doing ebay watches, are you?
I am REALLY starting to think there is a market for an alternative to
eBay search/monitoring geared to BUYERS.
Things I'd like to see
- blacklisting of sellers so I NEVER see their overpriced listings
- private monitoring of auctions
- notification if a seller EVER raises the starting price of an item
12:20 p.m.
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010, Al Kossow wrote:
just thought of another thing..
Integration with something like streetprices.com, so you know what going
NEW price is.
I'm puzzled when people don't realize you can buy something NEW for less
than a bid price.
This is something that really drives me crazy. This isn't simply a problem
with eBay either, I frequently see this on Craigslist for the stuff I
monitor it for.
I recently ran into just this issue at a Camera store that takes
consignments. They had a very nice used book on Paper Negatives I was
interested in. I almost bought it, but couldn't bring myself to pay what
they wanted. Then I learned you could not only get the book new still, but
that it was on Amazon for 2/5ths what the store wanted. Needless to say a
new copy of the book is sitting on my desk at this moment.
Zane
12:27 p.m.
I recently ran into just this issue at a Camera store
that takes
consignments. ?They had a very nice used book on Paper Negatives I was
interested in. ?I almost bought it, but couldn't bring myself to pay what
they wanted. ?Then I learned you could not only get the book new still, but
that it was on Amazon for 2/5ths what the store wanted. ?Needless to say a
new copy of the book is sitting on my desk at this moment.
Keep in mind that many stores, most notably antique and book stores,
do a fair amount of business to impulse shoppers. The stores can ask a
good buck to some of their items, and often enough they get it.
--
Will
1 Oct
1 Oct
1:43 p.m.
I'm
puzzled when people don't realize you can buy something NEW for less
than a bid price.
This is something that really drives me crazy. This isn't simply a problem with eBay either, I frequently see this on Craigslist
for the stuff I
monitor it for.
I recently ran into just this issue at a Camera store that takes
consignments. They had a very nice used book on Paper Negatives I was
interested in. I almost bought it, but couldn't bring myself to pay what
they wanted. Then I learned you could not only get the book new still, but
that it was on Amazon for 2/5ths what the store wanted. Needless to say a
new copy of the book is sitting on my desk at this moment.
Of coruse sometimes the older edition is rarer and thus more valuable to
a collector. Personally, I have books fot hte information they contain...
-tony
7:44 p.m.
well, lets see. i have been using ebay since before i was 18, even
though it was against TOS, and had to pay in cash, back when you
could, so since about 2000. i have seen the system evolve greatly. i
normally use buy it now to purchase things, about 99.99% of my
purchases are buy it now. i will admit, i have bid sniped quite a few
times, but i keep it to a minimum. i only snipe within the max im
willing to spend, as i have been burned and had to pay outrageous
ammounts before. ebay buyer protection is a double edged sword.
example, i once bought a vintage mac, to find the seller removed the
stains on it by washing it in acetone. i tried to file a complaint,
they wanted me to send it back, shipping not refundable. it wouldve
cost me more to send back than it cost me for the item. basically,
sellers can send you trash, but you could send it back and get back
less than the original cost. but i think they may have fixed that.
ebay has also turned into a place of unrealistic values for old
equipment, where people demand 10x reasonable value for an item and
justify it by labeling it "vintage" or "retro" when it is something
under 20 years old and was made in mass production. i do feel removing
sellers rights to negative feedback was a good idea, as in the day ii
ran across a few sellers who were running scams, and listed in their
profile "i leave negative feedback for negative feedback" or the real
world equivalent of "if you tell what im doing, ill tell the world you
are dealing coke out of your family's home" but at the same time it
makes it hard for sellers to deal with abusive or scam buyers, like
the time ii sold a PBX card in working order, had a dealer buy it for
less than his retail, and sent me a bad card back which was physically
different than the one i sold him, ebay attempted to take the money
back, could only take so much before my bank told them no, so he left
me negative feedback, but i was able to leave it for him as well.
30 Sep
30 Sep
12:13 p.m.
I am REALLY starting to think there is a market for an
alternative to
eBay search/monitoring geared to BUYERS.
Things I'd like to see
- blacklisting of sellers so I NEVER see their overpriced listings
- private monitoring of auctions
- notification if a seller EVER raises the starting price of an item
Of course, no one would be willing to PAY for this,
Also, EBay crushes 3rd party things like this. They have quite the
army of in house counsel.
--
Will
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