28 Nov
2007
28 Nov
'07
4:56 p.m.
http://www.dovebid.com/assets/display.asp?ItemID=swp1466
DEC MODEL PDP11/04 COMPUTER 4 EACH
Ends Thursday 11/29/07 10:36 AM PST
Phoenix, AZ
Opening Bid: US$ 1,700.00
BIN: $ 2,700.00
More than I would want to pay, but someone might want these....
29 Nov
29 Nov
1:33 p.m.
In article <1e1fc3e90711281656k69ac6b5bi93f4af93c7f3b8c7 at mail.gmail.com>,
"Glen Slick" <glen.slick at gmail.com> writes:
http://www.dovebid.com/assets/display.asp?ItemID=swp1466
DEC MODEL PDP11/04 COMPUTER 4 EACH
Ends Thursday 11/29/07 10:36 AM PST
Phoenix, AZ
Opening Bid: US$ 1,700.00
BIN: $ 2,700.00
More than I would want to pay, but someone might want these....
Looks like noone else wanted to pay that much either. I don't know
where they came up with a price like $1700 for 4 11/04s ($425 ea?),
particularly since there are no peripherals and working state is
unknown and you can't preview in person. I haven't been tracking
11/0x prices on ebay, but a couple years back I bought an 11/03 w/dual
RL01s, LA-120, VT-100, manuals, paper for LA-120, etc. all for $500,
so $425 ea. for 11/04s in an unknown state seems a little high.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
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Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
1:48 p.m.
On Thursday 29 November 2007, Richard wrote:
Looks like noone else wanted to pay that much either.
I don't know
where they came up with a price like $1700 for 4 11/04s ($425 ea?),
particularly since there are no peripherals and working state is
unknown and you can't preview in person. I haven't been tracking
11/0x prices on ebay, but a couple years back I bought an 11/03
w/dual RL01s, LA-120, VT-100, manuals, paper for LA-120, etc. all for
$500, so $425 ea. for 11/04s in an unknown state seems a little high.
An 11/04 is somewhat more desirable of a machine than the 11/03 is (it's
UNIBUS instead of QBUS), but you still lack the MMU, and only have a
calculator-keypad frontpanel instead of a full lights and toggles
frontpane, and it's relatively slow. So, it's not generally all that
desirable to people, compared to something like an 11/83, or even an
11/10, or 11/34.
Of course, who knows if they even had any board in them still.
I'd guess that if they were actually complete, and mostly working (but
without any interesting I/O boards), $150-$250 ea wouldn't be too far
out of line. I/O boards could dramatically raise the value of the
system, though... eg, if there were a SCSI controller or something in
the systems.
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
3:10 p.m.
Richard wrote...
> Looks like noone else wanted to pay that much
either. I don't know
> where they came up with a price like $1700 for 4 11/04s ($425 ea?),
To which Pat replied...
An 11/04 is somewhat more desirable of a machine than
the 11/03 is (it's
UNIBUS instead of QBUS), but you still lack the MMU, and only have a
calculator-keypad frontpanel instead of a full lights and toggles
frontpane, and it's relatively slow. So, it's not generally all that
desirable to people, compared to something like an 11/83, or even an
11/10, or 11/34.
Slow != UnDesireable, or HP 2100's wouldn't sell so much
higher than HP
21MX/E's ;)
11/04's seem a bit rare to me. And for "curb appeal" no different than an
11/34.
Of course, who knows if they even had any board in
them still.
Looks like a full boardset to me... did you click on the camera icon for
the
picture show pics? Not to mention, they look to be in awfully nice
condition.
I'd guess that if they were actually complete, and
mostly working (but
without any interesting I/O boards), $150-$250 ea wouldn't be too far
out of line. I/O boards could dramatically raise the value of the
system, though... eg, if there were a SCSI controller or something in
the systems.
Tis all subjective personal preference. I don't have an 11/04, and
don't
particularly want one. Is that because it's an 04? No, it's because of
space, time, money, already owning other 11's, not being a
dedicated -11-only collector, etc. Given that the above systems looked
complete and in very good shape, I think the asking price of $425 each
wasn't totally out of line (albeit yes, a bit high to *me*).
More to the point, I don't think the auction is a fair indicator of the
worth of an 11/04, because he bundled 4 of them at a high (total) price.
Perhaps few people want to buy all 4 and spend $1700, but perhaps there is
someone out there that would jump at buying one at 1/4th the price.
Jay
3:50 p.m.
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 05:10:05PM -0600, Jay West wrote:
Richard wrote...
>>Looks like noone else wanted to pay that much either. I don't know
>>where they came up with a price like $1700 for 4 11/04s ($425 ea?),
It's more than _I_ would want to pay for a bare 11/04 in unknown
condition.
To which Pat replied...
>An 11/04 is somewhat more desirable of a machine than the 11/03 is (it's
>UNIBUS instead of QBUS), but you still lack the MMU, and only have a
>calculator-keypad frontpanel instead of a full lights and toggles
>frontpane, and it's relatively slow. So, it's not generally all that
>desirable to people, compared to something like an 11/83, or even an
>11/10, or 11/34.
It's a fine RT-11 box, but so is an 11/23 (which is much more common
and about the same physical size). If you had some Unibus peripherals
you wanted to play with, you could drop a couple in there, but ISTR
there's a small number of empty slots after you install the CPU, memory,
and a console.
I'm not saying it's an terrible machine - I have one myself. There are
just other machines which might be easier to find and can do similar
(11/23) or identical (11/34) things with.
11/04's seem a bit rare to me. And for "curb
appeal" no different than an
11/34.
Agreed.
>I'd guess that if they were actually complete,
and mostly working (but
>without any interesting I/O boards), $150-$250 ea wouldn't be too far
>out of line.
Sure.
I/O boards could dramatically raise the value of the
>system, though... eg, if there were a SCSI controller or something in
>the systems.
Not impossible, but very unlikely. I wouldn't think that someone would
have ever spent that kind of money on a controller for an 11/04 in the
past - perhaps a hobbyist might stuff one in there for fun, but for the
era of the machine, an RX11 or RX211 or RL11 would be much more likely,
or a cable to an RK11.
More to the point, I don't think the auction is a
fair indicator of the
worth of an 11/04, because he bundled 4 of them at a high (total) price.
Perhaps few people want to buy all 4 and spend $1700, but perhaps there is
someone out there that would jump at buying one at 1/4th the price.
Someone? I'm sure there are people out there who would find ~$400 an
acceptable price for a bare 11/04, but, like Jay, I am not one of them.
-ethan
(the one I have used to be a bench-test machine, so ISTR it has 16K of
MOS and never had any mass storage - our test software was shoved down
the serial console into ODT - all standalone MACRO programs - no OS).
--
Ethan Dicks, A-333-S Current South Pole Weather at 29-Nov-2007 at 23:40 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -28.3 F (-33.5 C) Windchill -43.2 F (-41.8 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 4.1 kts Grid 103 Barometer 683.0 mb (10515 ft)
Ethan.Dicks at usap.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
30 Nov
30 Nov
4:18 p.m.
New subject: DoveBid Phoenix, AZ (4x) PDP 11/04 $1700,
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 05:10:05PM -0600, Jay West wrote:
Me too..
Richard wrote...
>>Looks like noone else wanted to pay that much either. I don't know
>>where they came up with a price like $1700 for 4 11/04s ($425 ea?),
It's more than _I_ would want to pay for a bare 11/04 in unknown
condition.
> To which Pat replied...
> >An 11/04 is somewhat more desirable of a machine than the 11/03 is (it's
> >UNIBUS instead of QBUS), but you still lack the MMU, and only have a
> >calculator-keypad frontpanel instead of a full lights and toggles
IIRC the keypad frontpanel is an option (the 'Programmer's Panel'), as I
believe it is on the 11/34. Every 11/34 I've seen has had the keypad,
every 11/04 hasn't, but that's hardly a representative sample.
>frontpane,
and it's relatively slow. So, it's not generally all that
>desirable to people, compared to something like an 11/83, or even an
>11/10, or 11/34.
It's a fine RT-11 box, but so is an 11/23 (which is much more common
and about the same physical size). If you had some Unibus peripherals you wanted to play with, you could drop a couple in
there, but ISTR
there's a small number of empty slots after you install the CPU, memory,
and a console.
I'm not saying it's an terrible machine - I have one myself. There are
I nearly got one, but eneded up taking na 11/34 instead. I don't really
regret that choice.
The 111/04 and 11/34 are pretty similar. Same backplane, mounting box
(There are 2, 5,.25" and 10.5", but either can be used for either machine),
memory, PSU (for a particular box), front panel etc. The 11/04 is a
simgle hex-height board for the CPU, the 11/34 is 2 boards.
_Somewhere_ O have an 11/04/34 user manual were references to the 11/09
and 11/39 have clearly been whited out before the manual was
duplicated... In fact I think one of the line drawings has '11/39' on it.
-tony
7:45 p.m.
New subject: DoveBid Phoenix, AZ (4x) PDP 11/04 $1700,
Easy upgrade to a 34 or 34A, just slip in a M7265 and 66 or a M8265 and 66.
Any cpu in any box will take the KY11-LA or LB.
Paul
On 11/30/07, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
The 11/04 has one advantage (to me) over the 11/23. The CPU is not one
(or a few) custom chipa, it's a board of standard parts -- TTL, PROMs,
etc. That could be an advnatage if you're looking for a machine you can
repair easily, or what to learn (or teach) the internals of a real CPU.
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 05:10:05PM -0600, Jay West wrote:
Me too..
Richard wrote...
>>Looks like noone else wanted to pay that much either. I don't know
>>where they came up with a price like $1700 for 4 11/04s ($425 ea?),
It's more than _I_ would want to pay for a bare 11/04 in unknown
condition.
> To which Pat replied...
> >An 11/04 is somewhat more desirable of a machine than the 11/03 is
(it's
> >UNIBUS instead of QBUS), but you still
lack the MMU, and only have a
> >calculator-keypad frontpanel instead of a full lights and toggles
IIRC the keypad frontpanel is an option (the 'Programmer's Panel'), as I
believe it is on the 11/34. Every 11/34 I've seen has had the keypad,
every 11/04 hasn't, but that's hardly a representative sample.
>frontpane, and it's relatively slow. So, it's not generally all that
>desirable to people, compared to something like an 11/83, or even an
>11/10, or 11/34.
It's a fine RT-11 box, but so is an 11/23 (which is much more common
and about the same physical size). If you had some Unibus peripherals you wanted to play with, you could drop a couple
in there, but ISTR
there's a small number of empty slots after you install the CPU, memory,
and a console.
I'm not saying it's an terrible machine - I have one myself. There are
I nearly got one, but eneded up taking na 11/34 instead. I don't really
regret that choice.
The 111/04 and 11/34 are pretty similar. Same backplane, mounting box
(There are 2, 5,.25" and 10.5", but either can be used for either
machine),
memory, PSU (for a particular box), front panel etc. The 11/04 is a
simgle hex-height board for the CPU, the 11/34 is 2 boards.
_Somewhere_ O have an 11/04/34 user manual were references to the 11/09
and 11/39 have clearly been whited out before the manual was
duplicated... In fact I think one of the line drawings has '11/39' on it.
-tony
1 Dec
1 Dec
10:28 a.m.
New subject: DoveBid Phoenix, AZ (4x) PDP 11/04 $1700,
On Nov 30, 2007, at 7:18 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
Though I've not done it myself, the KY11-LB documentation states that
it can be used on either the 11/04 or the 11/34.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
>> An
11/04 is somewhat more desirable of a machine than the 11/03 is
>> (it's
>> UNIBUS instead of QBUS), but you still lack the MMU, and only have a
>> calculator-keypad frontpanel instead of a full lights and toggles
IIRC the keypad frontpanel is an option (the 'Programmer's Panel'), as
I
believe it is on the 11/34. Every 11/34 I've seen has had the keypad,
every 11/04 hasn't, but that's hardly a representative sample.
29 Nov
29 Nov
3:53 p.m.
On Thursday 29 November 2007, Jay West wrote:
By guessing, it looks like one CPU board, the front-panel controller,
two (memory?) boards, some other I/O board (probably console port), and
a BC11 unibus cable going out the chassis.
This would mean that it's possible that the machine very minimal I/O and
would at least need a terminator board (which also means no boot roms).
Unfortunately, it's hard/impossible to tell what boards are actually in
them from the pictures.
Pricing is always subjective. :) I was thinking more of an average
value, if they sold. And yes, maybe I'm a little low. I always seem
to be "low" at estimating value when it comes to toggle-switch PDP-11s
on ebay.
Of course someone I ran into at VCF also claimed that $1200-$1500 was
way too much to spend on an pdp-11/35, but I'm perfectly happy with my
purchase. :)
Richard wrote...
I know, but it also doesn't have a toggle-switch front panel. Speed
and/or toggle-switches (and probably to some extent size) make machines
more interesting. This has neither speed nor a toggle-switch front
panel, but does have UNIBUS and is relatively small. I'm mostly
claiming that it would be less *popular* than a machine that was faster
or had an interesting frontpanel. I'm sure that some people would find
it desirable, but there's many more people that would prefer a machine
with speed, a frontpanel, or an MMU.
> Looks like noone else wanted to pay that much
either. I don't
> know where they came up with a price like $1700 for 4 11/04s ($425
> ea?),
To which Pat replied...
An 11/04 is somewhat more desirable of a machine
than the 11/03 is
(it's UNIBUS instead of QBUS), but you still lack the MMU, and only
have a calculator-keypad frontpanel instead of a full lights and
toggles frontpane, and it's relatively slow. So, it's not
generally all that desirable to people, compared to something like
an 11/83, or even an 11/10, or 11/34.
Slow != UnDesireable, or HP 2100's wouldn't sell so much higher than
HP 21MX/E's ;) 11/04's seem a bit rare to me. And for "curb
appeal" no different
than an 11/34.
I'm fairly certain that the only difference between the two is the CPU
boardset, and the label. IIRC, they both use the same CPU backplane,
but I'm not 100% sure on that.
Of course, who
knows if they even had any board in them still.
Looks like a full boardset to me... did you click on the camera icon
for the picture show pics? Not to mention, they look to be in awfully
nice condition. I'd guess
that if they were actually complete, and mostly working
(but without any interesting I/O boards), $150-$250 ea wouldn't be
too far out of line. I/O boards could dramatically raise the value
of the system, though... eg, if there were a SCSI controller or
something in the systems.
Tis all subjective personal preference. I don't have an 11/04, and
don't particularly want one. Is that because it's an 04? No, it's
because of space, time, money, already owning other 11's, not being a
dedicated -11-only collector, etc. Given that the above systems
looked complete and in very good shape, I think the asking price of
$425 each wasn't totally out of line (albeit yes, a bit high to
*me*). More to the point, I don't think the auction is a
fair indicator of
the worth of an 11/04, because he bundled 4 of them at a high (total)
price. Perhaps few people want to buy all 4 and spend $1700, but
perhaps there is someone out there that would jump at buying one at
1/4th the price.
I'd definately agree... I'm sure that the people who'd pay upwards of
$400-$500 for an 11/04 wouldn't want to buy 4 for "4 times the money".
And, realistically, the start bid shouldn't be as high as what you think
the equipment will sell for, or you'll end up driving away potential
bidders. Based on the BIN price of $2700, it looks like the seller
expected them to be worth closer to $650-$700 each, which I'm certain
is WAY too high for an 11/04, which has no peripherals, is of unknown
condition, and very few I/O boards in it.
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
9:19 p.m.
In article <200711291853.44349.pat at computer-refuge.org>,
Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org> writes:
By guessing, it looks like one CPU board, the
front-panel controller,
two (memory?) boards, some other I/O board (probably console port), and
a BC11 unibus cable going out the chassis.
There was only one photo of one of the 11/04s showing the boards. So
who knows whats in the other 3 systems.
I've seen items re-listed on dovebid at drastically reduced prices
when the initial offering resulted in no bids, as this lot did. So
maybe next time its listed, it will be a bargain.
Remember that you *can* contact the seller via dovebid, but they don't
always reply.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
30 Nov
30 Nov
6:18 a.m.
On Nov 29, 2007, at 6:53 PM, Patrick Finnegan wrote:
This is correct...same backplane, front panel controller, etc
etc. Only the CPU boards are different.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Farewell Ophelia, 9/22/1991 - 7/25/2007
11/04's
seem a bit rare to me. And for "curb appeal" no different
than an 11/34.
I'm fairly certain that the only difference between the two is the CPU
boardset, and the label. IIRC, they both use the same CPU backplane,
but I'm not 100% sure on that.
6231
days inactive
6233
days old
10 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
ethan.dicks＠usap.gov -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
legalize＠xmission.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
pat＠computer-refuge.org -
useddec＠gmail.com