10 Aug
2008
10 Aug
'08
5:11 p.m.
One of my machines is an old Packard-Bell Legend 610 machine, to which I am
trying to fit a second hard drive.
The machine will not recognize any modern (or semi-modern) hard drive I have
attempted to fit. I have tried various master/slave combinations, to no avail.
My guess is that this is due to the BIOS being of am early type. The BIOS
chip is a socketed DIP package and the lettering on it is too faded to read.
The screen boot-up display is this:
PhoenixBIOS(TM) A486 Version 1.01
PB400 OPTI 486WB
Reference ID 08
Is this a reasonable guess?
If so, what might be done by way of a BIOS upgrade?
Thanks,
Kurt
10 Aug
10 Aug
5:29 p.m.
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 Hollandia at ccountry.net wrote:
One of my machines is an old Packard-Bell Legend 610
machine, to which I am
trying to fit a second hard drive.
The machine will not recognize any modern (or semi-modern) hard drive I have
attempted to fit. I have tried various master/slave combinations, to no avail.
My guess is that this is due to the BIOS being of am early type. The BIOS
chip is a socketed DIP package and the lettering on it is too faded to read.
The screen boot-up display is this:
PhoenixBIOS(TM) A486 Version 1.01
PB400 OPTI 486WB
Reference ID 08
Is this a reasonable guess?
If so, what might be done by way of a BIOS upgrade?
Did you set the CMOS to 2 drives?
Which drive types are supported in the CMOS?
11 Aug
11 Aug
3:32 p.m.
BIOS for early 486 machines usually included two user defined disk
types, often the highest numbered types (maybe 47 and 48). These
allowed you to enter the number of cylinders heads and sectors. You
might not to be able to enter the actual geometry for your drive.
You'll probably be limited to 16 heads, 63 sectors and 1024 cylinders
(504MiB).
Whatever OS you install may be able to read the full disk capacity
from the drive and use it all (ignoring the BIOS
settings), but all
files needed for booting will need to be below the 504 MiB
boundary.
Eric
On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 2:11 PM, <Hollandia at ccountry.net> wrote:
One of my machines is an old Packard-Bell Legend 610
machine, to which I am
trying to fit a second hard drive.
The machine will not recognize any modern (or semi-modern) hard drive I have
attempted to fit. I have tried various master/slave combinations, to no avail.
My guess is that this is due to the BIOS being of am early type. The BIOS
chip is a socketed DIP package and the lettering on it is too faded to read.
The screen boot-up display is this:
PhoenixBIOS(TM) A486 Version 1.01
PB400 OPTI 486WB
Reference ID 08
Is this a reasonable guess?
If so, what might be done by way of a BIOS upgrade?
Thanks,
Kurt
7:14 p.m.
New subject: Upgrading early BIOS - Drive Overlay
Remember there were also the utilities to fool the PC into using larger
sized disks, but I never liked those at all. Most hard drives in that
time period came with the Ontrack, EZDrive, Disk Manager, MaxBlast,
programs. The Disk Drive Oveylay programs do a software convert of the
BIOS settings and actual settings and make it boot/work, usually. These
altered the MBR to sit there, and these have their issues and were
always a last resort. The drives do NOT swap into other machines well,
and any issue, esp with the MBR would pretty much cause a FAIL.
Eric J Korpela wrote:
BIOS for early 486 machines usually included two user
defined disk
types, often the highest numbered types (maybe 47 and 48). These
allowed you to enter the number of cylinders heads and sectors. You
might not to be able to enter the actual geometry for your drive.
You'll probably be limited to 16 heads, 63 sectors and 1024 cylinders
(504MiB).
Whatever OS you install may be able to read the full disk capacity
from the drive and use it all (ignoring the BIOS settings), but all
files needed for booting will need to be below the 504 MiB boundary.
Eric
On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 2:11 PM, <Hollandia at ccountry.net> wrote:
> One of my machines is an old Packard-Bell Legend 610 machine, to which I am
> trying to fit a second hard drive.
>
> The machine will not recognize any modern (or semi-modern) hard drive I have
> attempted to fit. I have tried various master/slave combinations, to no avail.
>
> My guess is that this is due to the BIOS being of am early type. The BIOS
> chip is a socketed DIP package and the lettering on it is too faded to read.
> The screen boot-up display is this:
>
> PhoenixBIOS(TM) A486 Version 1.01
> PB400 OPTI 486WB
> Reference ID 08
>
> Is this a reasonable guess?
>
> If so, what might be done by way of a BIOS upgrade?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kurt
>
>
>
7:45 p.m.
New subject: Upgrading early BIOS - Drive Overlay
On 11 Aug 2008 at 18:14, Michael Lee wrote:
Remember there were also the utilities to fool the PC
into using larger
sized disks, but I never liked those at all. Most hard drives in that
time period came with the Ontrack, EZDrive, Disk Manager, MaxBlast,
programs. The Disk Drive Oveylay programs do a software convert of the
BIOS settings and actual settings and make it boot/work, usually. These
altered the MBR to sit there, and these have their issues and were
always a last resort. The drives do NOT swap into other machines well,
and any issue, esp with the MBR would pretty much cause a FAIL.
The "disk managers" usually just install their own memory-resident
drivers from the first track of the hard drive, then conceal that
first track from view. The shortcoming was that (a) it cost some RAM
and (b) if you used an OS that was unaware of the drive overlay,
things could get pretty screwed up.
ISTR that there was also a BIOS extension ROM card that plugged into
an ISA slot to provide the necessary functionality.
Most of those disk manager programs were distributed with hard disks
and so are keyed to the manufacturer's branding returned by an
IDENTIFY command. Somewhere around here, I think I've got a real
retail copy of a generic Ontrack Disk Manager.
Cheers,
Chuck
8:11 p.m.
New subject: Upgrading early BIOS - Drive Overlay
At 04:45 PM 8/11/2008 -0700, you wrote:
On 11 Aug 2008 at 18:14, Michael Lee wrote:
I still have my AMIDISK IDE Bios extension card. If you have an MFM drive,
this is obviously no help. It's a little ISA bus card with a ROM. a 74F244
chip, and another chip with an AMI copyright sticker over the chip number.
The ROM is labeled "AMIDISK V1.1 IDE Extension" and the board also has
jumpers for address selection and 32k eprom vs. 64k eprom. The addresses
seem to be C800 CC00 D000 D400 D800 DC00.
I have the original plastic shell it was shipped in, manual, and invoice
showing I paid $67.25
The manual is 10 pages. It mentions that the card allows support of one or
two IDE controllers, one to four drives, LBA to allow exceeding 528mb,
works with any system BIOS, and automagically detects and configures
drives. Also supports non-LBA modes. The card has no other connectors other
than the ISA bus and address/config jumpers.
Please make offer. I'd love to unload this to someone that can make good
use of it.
-----
695. [Guests] Frank Harris has been received in all the great houses --
once! --
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"HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB: http://www.mixweb.com/tpeters
43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square
EN53wc
WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, CCNA, Registered Linux User 385531
Remember there were also the utilities to fool
the PC into using larger
sized disks, but I never liked those at all. Most hard drives in that
time period came with the Ontrack, EZDrive, Disk Manager, MaxBlast,
programs. The Disk Drive Oveylay programs do a software convert of the
BIOS settings and actual settings and make it boot/work, usually. These
altered the MBR to sit there, and these have their issues and were
always a last resort. The drives do NOT swap into other machines well,
and any issue, esp with the MBR would pretty much cause a FAIL.
The "disk managers" usually just install their own memory-resident
drivers from the first track of the hard drive, then conceal that
first track from view. The shortcoming was that (a) it cost some RAM
and (b) if you used an OS that was unaware of the drive overlay,
things could get pretty screwed up.
ISTR that there was also a BIOS extension ROM card that plugged into
an ISA slot to provide the necessary functionality. 
11:41 p.m.
New subject: Upgrading early BIOS - Drive Overlay
On Monday 11 August 2008 20:11, Tom Peters wrote:
(Snip)
I still have my AMIDISK IDE Bios extension card.
(Snip)
Please make offer. I'd love to unload this to
someone that can make good
use of it.
Speaking of which, I also have a few cards like that. Two ISA and two VLB,
NIB. I can get more specifics as to what all's included in those boxes if
there's any interest (they're a few blocks from here).
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
3:59 p.m.
On 10 Aug 2008 at 14:11, Hollandia at ccountry.net wrote:
One of my machines is an old Packard-Bell Legend 610
machine, to which I am
trying to fit a second hard drive.
The machine will not recognize any modern (or semi-modern) hard drive I have
attempted to fit. I have tried various master/slave combinations, to no avail.
My guess is that this is due to the BIOS being of am early type. The BIOS
chip is a socketed DIP package and the lettering on it is too faded to read.
The screen boot-up display is this:
Given that this is a 486, I don't think that the BIOS is your
problem. I've used OPTI chipset 486s with two drives with no
problem.
What kind of IDE cable are you using to hook up the second drive? If
it's an 80-conductor (UDMA) cable, then it's likely that the old IDE
controller can't see the drive. You need the 40-conductor cable.
You may also have to jumper the drive to restrict it to 8GB or less
(some drives can do this).
FWIW,
Chuck
6:25 p.m.
Here's a list of various limits of hardware and software for various
disk sizes I came across a while back.
http://www.allensmith.net/Storage/HDDlimit/Limits.htm#Content
Eric
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
On 10 Aug 2008 at 14:11, Hollandia at ccountry.net
wrote:
One of my machines is an old Packard-Bell Legend
610 machine, to which I am
trying to fit a second hard drive.
The machine will not recognize any modern (or semi-modern) hard drive I have
attempted to fit. I have tried various master/slave combinations, to no avail.
My guess is that this is due to the BIOS being of am early type. The BIOS
chip is a socketed DIP package and the lettering on it is too faded to read.
The screen boot-up display is this:
Given that this is a 486, I don't think that the BIOS is your
problem. I've used OPTI chipset 486s with two drives with no
problem.
What kind of IDE cable are you using to hook up the second drive? If
it's an 80-conductor (UDMA) cable, then it's likely that the old IDE
controller can't see the drive. You need the 40-conductor cable.
You may also have to jumper the drive to restrict it to 8GB or less
(some drives can do this).
FWIW,
Chuck
6:35 p.m.
On 11 Aug 2008 at 15:25, Eric J Korpela wrote:
Here's a list of various limits of hardware and
software for various
disk sizes I came across a while back.
http://www.allensmith.net/Storage/HDDlimit/Limits.htm#Content
There are also a few DOS utilities out there that will issue an
IDENTIFY command and report what comes back, regardless of what the
BIOS says. That might, at least, tell the OP if the drive's cabled
up right.
But this system is a Backward-Hell, right? Not exactly the tops on
my list of desirable PCs to use!
It's funny--I don't recall anyone on this asking about the
collectability of a Barbie PC--must be a "guy" thing. ;<)
Cheers,
Chuck
7:07 p.m.
New subject: Barbie PC
Funny you mention the Barbie PC. Back in the day, when the manufacturer
went bankrupt, a surplus dealer was selling dozens of these for $30 a
piece, no CPU or memory. So, of course, on impulse, I bought half a
dozen. They were the worst things you can imagine. The board was
Mini-ITXish, no expansion slots, no PS/2, 2x USB, one memory slot, one
IDE, and supported only some early model Celeron CPUs. NO Network,
might have had a software modem. Since it only had 2x usb, a mouse and
keyboard would be it for connections to it. A very basic SVGA, barely
good for anything. The whole thing was puzzled together into a small
metal case covered in silver spray painted plastic including the CD-ROM
front, with a cute flower pattern. Also, they had a tendency to drain
the BIOS battery and once dead, it would stay that way for good. Sadly
they still sit on a workbench to this day. Haven't gotten myself to get
rid of them. And to this day I can't figure out any alternative uses
for it or it's parts. Having no method of external peripherals and not
having network seriously limited any use of this machine.
So are they collectable? :)
Mike
Chuck Guzis wrote:
It's funny--I don't recall anyone on this asking about the
collectability of a Barbie PC--must be a "guy" thing. ;<)
7:35 p.m.
New subject: Barbie PC
On 11 Aug 2008 at 18:07, Michael Lee wrote:
So are they collectable? :)
As what? ;) If they had a serial port, they might make a terminal,
rather than *be* terminal. Or you could load one up with a PDP-8
emulator...
So, did you pick up some "Hello Kitty" stickers to customize the box
a bit more?
Sometimes, you can find some real gems in toys--such as the TI "Speak-
n-Spell" and some kids' digicams (particuarly if you can get them on
closeout). Other times, well, it's just junk...
I wonder what the "Ken" PC looked like...
Cheers,
Chuck
13 Aug
13 Aug
1:49 p.m.
New subject: Barbie PC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 12:35 AM
Subject: Re: Barbie PC
On 11 Aug 2008 at 18:07, Michael Lee wrote:
Yeah that would make it more attractive!
So are they collectable? :)
As what? ;) If they had a serial port, they might make a terminal,
rather than *be* terminal. Or you could load one up with a PDP-8
emulator...
So, did you pick up some "Hello Kitty" stickers to customize the box
a bit more?
Sometimes, you can find some real gems in toys--such
as the TI "Speak-
n-Spell" and some kids' digicams (particuarly if you can get them on
closeout). Other times, well, it's just junk...
I had Speak-n-Spell when I was a kid. Learned how to spell on it and how to
talk like Stephen Hawkins :)
Unfortunately, my brother got hold of it when we were a few years older and
took a hammer to it :(
I wonder what the "Ken" PC looked like...
Cheers,
Chuck
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
11 Aug
11 Aug
9:20 p.m.
New subject: Barbie PC
Michael Lee wrote:
Funny you mention the Barbie PC. Back in the day,
when the
manufacturer went bankrupt, a surplus dealer was selling dozens of
these for $30 a piece, no CPU or memory. So, of course, on impulse, I
bought half a dozen. They were the worst things you can imagine. The
board was Mini-ITXish, no expansion slots, no PS/2, 2x USB, one memory
slot, one IDE, and supported only some early model Celeron CPUs. NO
Network, might have had a software modem. Since it only had 2x usb, a
mouse and keyboard would be it for connections to it. A very basic
SVGA, barely good for anything. The whole thing was puzzled together
into a small metal case covered in silver spray painted plastic
including the CD-ROM front, with a cute flower pattern. Also, they
had a tendency to drain the BIOS battery and once dead, it would stay
that way for good. Sadly they still sit on a workbench to this day.
Haven't gotten myself to get rid of them. And to this day I can't
figure out any alternative uses for it or it's parts. Having no
method of external peripherals and not having network seriously
limited any use of this machine.
So are they collectable? :)
Bummer, that thing looks AWFUL! Even my 4 year old
"girlie firl"
daughter wouldn;t find much appealing on that unit.
Jim
9:41 p.m.
New subject: Barbie PC
Then there's the Hot Wheels PC:
<http://www.applefritter.com/images/hotwheelscomputer-5309_640x480.jpg>
Looks like an identical case with a different paint scheme.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
10:32 p.m.
New subject: Barbie PC
On 11 Aug 2008 at 20:20, Jim Brain wrote:
Bummer, that thing looks AWFUL! Even my 4 year old
"girlie firl"
daughter wouldn;t find much appealing on that unit.
As if a POS pink PC weren't enough, the poor folks who paid $699 to
order theirs got a double-whammy; a bankruptcy, just in time for
Christmas:
http://news.cnet.com/Bankruptcy-crashes-the-Barbie-PC/2100-1040_3-
250222.html
The Hot Wheels and Barbie PCs were made by the same company--Patriot
Computers:
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1017-234533.html
Cheers,
Chuck
11:38 p.m.
New subject: Barbie PC
On Monday 11 August 2008 19:07, Michael Lee wrote:
So are they collectable? :)
Put 'em on ebay and find out. :-)
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
1 a.m.
New subject: Barbie PC
On Tuesday 12 August 2008 00:54, bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
Roy J. Tellason wrote:
One wonders.
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
On Monday 11 August 2008 19:07, Michael Lee
wrote:
I'd like to say "A fool and his money are ..."
but how did the *fool* get his money in the first place? So are they collectable? :)
Put 'em on ebay and find out. :-) 
16 Aug
16 Aug
11:08 a.m.
New subject: Keytronic RS232 keyboard
There was a thread on this keyboard a little while ago. The keyboard
looked so interesting that I bought one for no reason, other than
curiosity. ;-0
Now what? Does anybody have a pinout and tech specs for this? Should
it be just as easy as getting the right serial parms, making a cable,
and connecting it to a serial port?
Mike
17 Aug
17 Aug
2:46 p.m.
New subject: Keytronic RS232 keyboard
furthermore, are there generic drivers out there for a ps/2 k/b w/a serial adapter?
--- On Sat, 8/16/08, Michael B. Brutman <mbbrutman-cctalk at brutman.com> wrote:
From: Michael B. Brutman <mbbrutman-cctalk at
brutman.com>
Subject: Keytronic RS232 keyboard
To: "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 11:08 AM
There was a thread on this keyboard a little while ago. The
keyboard
looked so interesting that I bought one for no reason,
other than
curiosity. ;-0
Now what? Does anybody have a pinout and tech specs for
this? Should
it be just as easy as getting the right serial parms,
making a cable,
and connecting it to a serial port?
Mike
18 Aug
18 Aug
2:07 p.m.
New subject: OT: Pushing pins
Just wondering if anyone's found a decent tool for pushing wire-wrap
socket pins out of (thick) 1/8" prototyping board. A wire-wrap tool
bit is too large to get the pin pushed out far enough.
Before I hie myself off to my lathe to make something, I was
wondering if there was anything available off-the shelf.
Cheers,
Chuck
3:42 p.m.
New subject: OT: Pushing pins
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Just wondering if anyone's found a decent tool for
pushing wire-wrap
socket pins out of (thick) 1/8" prototyping board. A wire-wrap tool
bit is too large to get the pin pushed out far enough.
Before I hie myself off to my lathe to make something, I was
wondering if there was anything available off-the shelf.
I've done that using a length of copper tubing and a hammer.
4:53 p.m.
New subject: OT: Pushing pins
On 18 Aug 2008 at 12:42, Eric Smith wrote:
I've done that using a length of copper tubing and
a hammer.
Through 1/8" PCB? It's easy enough to that with 1/16" stuff, as
there's quite a bit of the "collar" that protrudes, but there's
scarcely anything at all sticking through with the thick board. That
tubing must have been tiny and thinwall.
Cheers,
Chuck
5:09 p.m.
New subject: OT: Pushing pins
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Through 1/8" PCB? It's easy enough to that
with 1/16" stuff, as
there's quite a bit of the "collar" that protrudes, but there's
scarcely anything at all sticking through with the thick board. That
tubing must have been tiny and thinwall.
I think the tubing I used was 1/8" OD, with about 20 mil wall thickness.
I just slid it over the wire-wrap tail, and hit it with the hammer.
If there isn't any shoulder of the socket sticking through the bottom of
the board, it must be a lot different than the ones I was dealing with.
I did this to make my own 114-pin and 68-pin WW PGA sockets for the
MC68020 and MC68881, back in 1986 before those became readily available.
(And of course, they're no longer readily available.) I thought the
WW panel I knocked them out of was a 125 mil, but I could be mistaken.
If you just need individual WW sockets, I think you can get the Mill-Max
ones from Digikey.
Eric
5:41 p.m.
New subject: OT: Pushing pins
On 18 Aug 2008 at 14:09, Eric Smith wrote:
I think the tubing I used was 1/8" OD, with about
20 mil wall thickness.
I just slid it over the wire-wrap tail, and hit it with the hammer.
If there isn't any shoulder of the socket sticking through the bottom of
the board, it must be a lot different than the ones I was dealing with.
I can pop the pins out of 1/16" PCB using just a wirewrap bit, but
1/8" OD tubing is *way* too thick to do the job on the 1/8" stock.
There's maybe .020" of the collar that protrudes on the wiring side--
not enough to get the pin punched through.
I've got a few boards that were used for 10K series ECL (16 pin DIPs--
3 rows of 8 pins separated by space from the next). I'm never going
to use those as-is, so I thought I'd salvage the huge pile of unused
pins on them.
I like to set my own pins on projects (I use a modified spring-loaded
center punch). Looks neat and is less visually confusing from the
wiring side than the "bed of nails" of a stock WW prototype board--
and easily accomodates things like TQFP adapter boards and PLCC
sockets.
Thanks,
Chuck
7:45 p.m.
New subject: OT: Pushing pins
Chuck Guzis wrote:
I can pop the pins out of 1/16" PCB using just a
wirewrap bit, but
1/8" OD tubing is *way* too thick to do the job on the 1/8" stock.
I don't understand where the problem is. The ID of the tubing has to be
at least 36 mils to fit a 25 mil square WW tail. The smallest I had on
hand was 1/8" OD, and that fit just fine over the pins. 3/32" OD tubing
might work.
8:26 p.m.
New subject: OT: Pushing pins
On 18 Aug 2008 at 16:45, Eric Smith wrote:
I don't understand where the problem is. The ID
of the tubing has to be
at least 36 mils to fit a 25 mil square WW tail. The smallest I had on
hand was 1/8" OD, and that fit just fine over the pins. 3/32" OD tubing
might work.
To push the pin far enough out, the "pusher" is going to have to
project a certain distance into the hole in the board. Simply
pushing the slight projection of the collar so it's flush with the
wiring side surface of the board simply isn't sufficient to get the
pin out. I can take photos if you're curious. A wire wrap gun bit
(only, not the sleeve) is in the 1/8" OD range and it's way too big.
Thanks,
Chuck
9:36 p.m.
New subject: OT: Pushing pins
Chuck Guzis wrote:
To push the pin far enough out, the "pusher"
is going to have to
project a certain distance into the hole in the board. Simply
pushing the slight projection of the collar so it's flush with the
wiring side surface of the board simply isn't sufficient to get the
pin out.
Tapping them was always sufficient when I did it. The pins were
friction-fit in the board, and tapping them seemed to loosen them up
enough that they were easily pulled out. I suppose my board and/or
sockets may have been different than yours.
Eric
9:52 p.m.
New subject: OT: Pushing pins
On 18 Aug 2008 at 18:36, Eric Smith wrote:
Tapping them was always sufficient when I did it. The
pins were
friction-fit in the board, and tapping them seemed to loosen them up
enough that they were easily pulled out. I suppose my board and/or
sockets may have been different than yours.
Yeah, these are pretty firmly set. It takes quite a bit of effort
even using longnose pliers to push one out. Something like an 18
gauge hypodermic needle might be close or maybe a drilled-out
mechanical pencil tip.
Time to kludge up a solution--off to the hellbox!
Thanks,
Chuck
19 Aug
19 Aug
9:36 a.m.
New subject: OT: Pushing pins
How about a pushing tool that is drilled to accept the wire wrap pin
square, but only part way? Then you can push until the tool meets the
board. So long as the hole is deep enough to give enough support (so
the pin doesn't bend) that would do the job, right? No need to push
the pin's shoulder (if any) that way.
paul
11:37 a.m.
New subject: OT: Pushing pins
On 19 Aug 2008 at 9:36, Paul Koning wrote:
How about a pushing tool that is drilled to accept the
wire wrap pin
square, but only part way? Then you can push until the tool meets the
board. So long as the hole is deep enough to give enough support (so
the pin doesn't bend) that would do the job, right? No need to push
the pin's shoulder (if any) that way.
It's an idea that I'll certainly try, thanks! Clearly, I'll have to
be careful to apply force perpendicular to the board, but it might
work.
Cheers,
Chuck
7:55 p.m.
New subject: OT: Pushing pins
On 19 Aug 2008 at 9:36, Paul Koning wrote:
How about a pushing tool that is drilled to accept the
wire wrap pin
square, but only part way? Then you can push until the tool meets the
board. So long as the hole is deep enough to give enough support (so
the pin doesn't bend) that would do the job, right? No need to push
the pin's shoulder (if any) that way.
I made the tool you describe. I took some 3/16" brass rod and turned
the last inch or so down to 0.100" (thick on top to provide a
striking surface, thin below for clearance) and drilled an 0.9mm hole
in the small end deep enough to allow a pin to be just pushed clear
of the board when the tool bottoms against the PCB.
It's beauty in simplicity. Put the tool over a pin, give it a whack
with a small mallet (I use a jeweler's rawhide hammer) and out pops
the pin--no damage to the "tail" at all. Put the board wiring side
up over a couple of supports and you can really move right along.
Great idea--many thanks! I hated to see all of those gold-plated
pins go to waste...
--Chuck
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