6 Aug
2007
6 Aug
'07
3:31 p.m.
Well, I've been playing with some machines I haven't
had time for before (not that I really have time now,
but that's beside the point), and I was able to fire
up the MicroVax II's. I have two of them, one in an
official DEC enclosure, and one in a third party
cabinet. They both "work" after a little cajoling, but
neither boots from disk. The third party cabinet Vax
has a screeching ESDI disk (sounds like a head crash)
on an Emulex controller, and the DEC cabinet Vax has
an RD53 on an RQDX3, and it sounds as if the rubber
bumper has glued the heads to the stops.
I have other ESDI disks, and one other Micropolis
drive (non DEC)- I want to attempt to format and test
some of them on the Vaxen. I plan on attempting to
repair the RD53, but I'd like to be able to format and
test disks, since I need to scare up a replacement for
the other Vax.
I have heard tales of a magical diagnostic tape that
exists for these machines. Both Vaxen have TK50's, and
I have one TK50 cartridge (jammed in one of the
TK50's... Gotta free that tonight). I also have, IIRC,
a SCSI TK50 (gotta dig that out tonight as well). So,
is there any way of creating a diagnostic tape for
these MicroVax II's? Is there an archive somewhere out
on the 'net of tape dumps?
Thanks!
-Ian
6 Aug
6 Aug
5:26 p.m.
Mr Ian Primus wrote:
I have other ESDI disks, and one other Micropolis
drive (non DEC)- I want to attempt to format and test
some of them on the Vaxen. I plan on attempting to
repair the RD53, but I'd like to be able to format and
test disks, since I need to scare up a replacement for
the other Vax.
The emulex boards should have onboard formatters for the ESDI drives.
No need for the "diagnostic tape"
I have heard tales of a magical diagnostic tape that
exists for these machines.
Tales they are ;-)
With the diagnostic tape, you can format formatted drives. If you really
like to format a MFM disk for a VAX, use a pdp11 with XXDP, or a
microVAX 2000.
Good luck
P.S. Go ESDI, if you have the drives already ...
6:34 p.m.
I have heard
tales of a magical diagnostic tape that
exists for these machines.
Tales they are ;-)
With the diagnostic tape, you can format formatted drives. If you really
like to format a MFM disk for a VAX, use a pdp11 with XXDP, or a
microVAX 2000. 
7:16 p.m.
On 8/6/07, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote:
Personally I'd recommend going with either ESDI, SDI, or SCSI controllers.
I know my Webster WQESD/04 board is a very nice ESDI board that I'd be
tempted to go with.
I have also had good luck with Q-bus ESDI controllers and every flavor
I have working has on board diagnostics for formatting and verifying
drives.
The one exception is an Andromeda ESDC Q-Bus ESDI controller, for
which I lack a manual. Anyone have a manual for this controller? Did
Megan disappear off of the list? Old messages indicate she had a
manual for this controller.
-Glen
8:48 p.m.
At 06:34 PM 8/6/2007, Zane H. Healy wrote:
really
That's correct, the FS diags can format unformatted drives. I have one
of those tapes as well as a set of FS diagnostic floppy disks (RX50s.)
However, they'll only work with DEC-equivalent drives on DEC
controllers. XT2190s (RD54s) aren't cheap, they're noisy as hell, and
aren't very big. The RD53s are junk and even smaller. (I had several
that wouldn't spin up, no evidence of the widely reported sticky rubber
bumper. Removing the bumper didn't fix the drives.)
As several people have pointed out, you're far better off with non-DEC
storage controllers and devices.
-Rick
I have heard tales of a magical diagnostic tape that
exists for these machines.
Tales they are ;-)
With the diagnostic tape, you can format formatted drives. If you like to format a MFM disk for a VAX, use a pdp11
with XXDP, or a
microVAX 2000.
Remember there are two different types of Diag tapes, one is the Customer
Tape, the other is the FE Tape. ISTR that the FE tape can format
unformatted drives. 
12 Aug
12 Aug
12:53 a.m.
On 8/6/07, Rick Murphy <rick at rickmurphy.net> wrote:
XT2190s (RD54s) aren't cheap, they're noisy as
hell, and
aren't very big.
How "not cheap" are they these days? They are large enough for VMS
6.0 - I've done it. OTOH, there wasn't any room left for anything
else, and I did have to trim off a few things to make it all fit, but
it does come up and boot on my rather-stock uVAX-II.
By even semi-modern standards, though, I'd agree with you that 154MB
just isn't that much room for later versions of VMS or Ultrix, but VMS
5.x and on down fit just fine, if that's what you want to run.
As several people have pointed out, you're far
better off with non-DEC
storage controllers and devices.
Agreed. I managed to locate a Qbus SCSI controller a while back, but
I've had other DEC machines in the queue head of any MicroVAX work, so
I haven't been able to put a system together yet.
-ethan
6 Aug
6 Aug
6:03 p.m.
Mr Ian Primus wrote:
Well, I've been playing with some machines I
haven't
had time for before (not that I really have time now,
but that's beside the point), and I was able to fire
up the MicroVax II's. I have two of them, one in an
official DEC enclosure, and one in a third party
cabinet. They both "work" after a little cajoling, but
neither boots from disk. The third party cabinet Vax
has a screeching ESDI disk (sounds like a head crash)
Check the bottom of the drive where the spindle is.
Sometimes there is a copper "ground" spring that touches
the spindle, and it can make horrible noises (it's a really
stupid design). Seen the design on RD54's and other
drives. Usually the disk is Ok, just noisy. If so, pull it away
and see if the noise stops.
on an Emulex controller, and the DEC cabinet Vax has
an RD53 on an RQDX3, and it sounds as if the rubber
RD53's are usually more trouble than their worth.
They seem to have more failure modes than any other
drive available.
bumper has glued the heads to the stops.
I have other ESDI disks, and one other Micropolis
drive (non DEC)- I want to attempt to format and test
some of them on the Vaxen. I plan on attempting to
repair the RD53, but I'd like to be able to format and
test disks, since I need to scare up a replacement for
the other Vax.
The ESDI drives often had the formatter built into the
controller ROMs. You just had to tickle it appropriately,
and it would format. You'll need a manual for your
specific controller to find out the procedure. Check
bitsavers to see if they have a copy of the manual.
I don't think the diagnostic tape is able to
format anything that isn't on a standard DEC
controller.
I have heard tales of a magical diagnostic tape that
exists for these machines. Both Vaxen have TK50's, and
I have one TK50 cartridge (jammed in one of the
TK50's... Gotta free that tonight). I also have, IIRC,
If it doesn't unload when you power it on with the button out
and the door closed, then you're going to have problems
getting it out.
Frequently the internal leader breaks, and it wraps around
the take up spool. In such cases, remove the aluminum cover,
rethread and hook the remains of the hook at the appropriate
position, then the tape will release. If the tape is fully in the
case, then you can manipulate a seloniod at the side of the
drive (gold case and white plastic iirc) to release the tape.
Replacement leaders used to be available, but...
a SCSI TK50 (gotta dig that out tonight as well). So,
is there any way of creating a diagnostic tape for
these MicroVax II's? Is there an archive somewhere out
on the 'net of tape dumps?
Special tape, held close by the Field Service techs.
I don't know if it's available.
11:01 p.m.
Well, I managed to unjam the TK50 drive and get the
cartridge out - it took some fiddleing, manually
rewinding the tape with the screw hole in the bottom a
bit, powering up, it would seek back and forth, then
start to rewind, go a ways, then stop. Lather, rinse,
repeat about three times, and then it got stuck right
before the unload cycle. Manually rewound the last few
inches and unlatched/removed the cartridge. The leader
looks OK, but the cartridge is a little "crinkly"
sounding - I think it must have jammed up in there
somehow. Anyway, I don't think this tape is going to
be useable. The closest thing I had lying around is a
DLTTape IIIxt cartridge - which, by creative people
who must have thought of this before, doesn't fit.
Little tabs on the left of the tape prevent it from
being inserted all the way.
So, I'll sort through tape drives and see if I can
find the SCSI TK50 I think that I have. Either way, I
have three DEC interface TK50's - so I should have one
that I can make work.
I'll try messing with the Emulex controller system
first, especially if I can make it load internal
diagnostics. I have several ESDI drives kicking around
I can put into service. The one that's in there
certainally sounds "crashed" but I'll try and see if
it can work at all. I don't see anything dragging on
the motor externally. It's a CDC Wren
something-or-other drive.
As far as the RD53 on the stock DEC Vax, I dismantled
the drive and unjammed the heads. It now spins up and
performs a head load, and stays spinning. The Vax
still won't boot though, although it doesn't give me
any errors on the console. It gets to "2...", and the
"READY" lamp on the front of the Vax blinks a bit,
pauses, blinks a bit more, then stays on. I'd like to
try reformatting it and see if it works. I know that
the MFM based drives are old, and probably unreliable,
but I have several, and I'm not at all against using
them if I can get something to run.
-Ian
7 Aug
7 Aug
6:47 p.m.
Well, I made it a bit farther with the MicroVax II.
Right now I am concentrating on just one of the
machines - the MVII in the third party enclosure. It
has a Dilog ESDI card, and a TK50 controller/drive,
and an SMD controller.
A little background:
When I got the machine, the SMD controller was ripped
loose from it's slot (no bulkhead, just cables running
out the back, apparently), and there was a grant card
loose in the bottom of the cabinet. There was a full
horizontal row of slots between the CPU/RAM/SMD and
the ESDI controller and TK50.
Running it like that wasn't going to work, since the
bus grant wasn't going to be passed through the empty
slot. (I know that much about Qbus). So I shifted the
ESDI board and the TK50 board up a row, so there were
no gaps. The ESDI controller never worked like this. I
had to pull out the TK50 controller and put the ESDI
controller in it's place in order to get it to boot.
So maybe the TK50 controller wasn't passing the grant?
Anyway, the drive that was in it makes a horrible
squealing noise, but I left it connected anyway -
since I know the controller was originally using it.
And lo and behold - it booted. VMS version 5.2. I was
able to punch in the date/time, then it loaded some
stuff, then complained of all manner or I/O errors.
Since there's nothing dragging on the spindle of the
drive external to the HDA, it sounds like a head
crash. Bummer.
I got the controller to see and format an IBM ESDI
drive, and that seems to be working. Now, the only
thing I have left to do is load an OS. I'm going to
start with NetBSD since it's easy to get and well
documented. I did some digging here and found my SCSI
TK50 drive. So, I should be able to write a tape, move
it to the MicroVax and boot it. Only one problem. I
don't have any tapes.
The tape I unjammed from another TK50 drive is clearly
not going to work again - the tape was snarled inside
the cartridge (the cartridge is kinda "crinkly" when
you press gently on the poker chip on the bottom. So,
while I know it's not good from a reliability
standpoint, has anyone ever filed the tabs off of an
incompatible cartridge and gotten it to work in a
TK50? I have DLT III, IIIXT and IV cartridges
(although I actually use the IV's - so I don't really
want to go hacking one of those up if I can avoid it).
-Ian
6190
days inactive
6196
days old
8 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
emu＠e-bbes.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
ian_primus＠yahoo.com -
kth＠srv.net -
rick＠rickmurphy.net