2 Mar
2011
2 Mar
'11
3:44 p.m.
Hi,
A neighbouring hacker space has access to some Motorola 6805 equipment
pulls. These are 6800s with some amount of on-chip RAM, ROM and IO.
I have no idea what the ROM might contain or if you can circumvent the
ROM with your own code in off-chip RAM.
They don't have any plans for these chips. If you are familiar with
them, we'd like to learn more about them. If you need some for your
project, just let me know.
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2 Mar
2 Mar
5:06 p.m.
Richard wrote:
A neighbouring hacker space has access to some
Motorola 6805 equipment
pulls. These are 6800s with some amount of on-chip RAM, ROM and IO.
The 6805 instruction set is sort of similar to the 6800, but it
certainly isn't a 6800.
I have no idea what the ROM might contain or if you
can circumvent the
ROM with your own code in off-chip RAM.
Most if not all masked-ROM 6805 and 68HC05 parts don't provide a
documented way to use external program memory. (I say documented
because there are undocumented test modes activated by putting a
supervoltage on a pin.)
To determine whether the parts are of any use, the full part number
would be required.
Eric
5:40 p.m.
In article <4D6EE98E.1090601 at brouhaha.com>,
Eric Smith <eric at brouhaha.com> writes:
Richard wrote:
I couldn't find much about 6805s, certainly not a datasheet.
Wikipedia told me the stuff that I posted.
A neighbouring hacker space has access to some
Motorola 6805 equipment
pulls. These are 6800s with some amount of on-chip RAM, ROM and IO.
The 6805 instruction set is sort of similar to the 6800, but it
certainly isn't a 6800. To determine whether the parts are of any use, the
full part number
would be required.
try this:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/tmp/6805.jpg>
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<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
2:11 p.m.
I recall there were some 68xx parts offered to us in the early 80s by
Motorola. They decided they didn't want to take a bloodbath on excess
quantities of rom parts which did not meet specs or were refused by the
original customer. They presented it to us as the rom was there, and
you could add the external eprom, etc. and the rom would not affect you.
I don't recall if they related how they were able to disable the rom,
maybe a jumper that was bonded out to some pad with different options
depending on whether they wanted the rom emabled or not. I think it was
too early for the laser zapps the die method to be feasible, and
certainly not in quantity.
We were using 6802's and were evaluating using the 6802, 6809, or this
sort of part for a higher quantity controller product we were working
on. Eventually had to go with the 6809, rather than the lower power
68xx parts.
Jim
On 3/3/2011 5:53 AM, Eric Smith wrote:
Richard wrote:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/tmp/6805.jpg>
You're in luck! The MC146805E2 is not a masked-ROM part; it's one of
the few ROMless parts specifically designed to use external program
memory.
Eric
6:35 p.m.
jim s wrote:
I recall there were some 68xx parts offered to us in
the early 80s by
Motorola. They decided they didn't want to take a bloodbath on excess
quantities of rom parts which did not meet specs or were refused by the
original customer. They presented it to us as the rom was there, and you
could add the external eprom, etc. and the rom would not affect you.
That would most likely have been the MC6801 family, or the MC68HC11
family. Many of those parts had the ability to use external memory, and
optionally to disable the internal ROM.
Aside from the ROMless MC146805E2, there were few 6805-family parts that
could use external memory.
Even for the parts with an undocumented way of doing it, by applying a
supervoltage to a pin, this was only intended for engineering test and
not for production, as it stressed the I/O pad. Keeping the
supervoltage applied for an arbitrarily long time could damage the part.
At one time I wanted to develop some code for the MC68HC05F5, a variant
with a built-in DTMF decoder. There was no EPROM or OTP version of this
part. Motorola gave me documentation on the test modes of that part.
IIRC, some people also worked out how test modes worked on a few other
MC68HC05 family parts based on study of the schematics of EVB boards.
Eric
2 Mar
2 Mar
5:34 p.m.
On 2011 Mar 2, at 3:44 PM, Richard wrote:
A neighbouring hacker space has access to some
Motorola 6805 equipment
pulls. These are 6800s with some amount of on-chip RAM, ROM and IO.
I have no idea what the ROM might contain or if you can circumvent the
ROM with your own code in off-chip RAM.
They don't have any plans for these chips. If you are familiar with
them, we'd like to learn more about them. If you need some for your
project, just let me know.
I have here the 1984 Motorola "Single-Chip Microcomputer Data" book,
which covers the 6805 family. There are a dozen or two variations of
the 6805. If you provide the full part number I can look it up.
From an initial look at the the book however, it appears most of the
variations are mask-programmed and I'm not seeing any opportunity to
address or substitute external ROM. There are some EPROM (68705,
windowed of course) and a couple of EEPROM (6805K2,3) variations.
5:42 p.m.
In article <38a6c661425d97015d89cecf5ed5e293 at cs.ubc.ca>,
Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> writes:
I have here the 1984 Motorola "Single-Chip
Microcomputer Data" book,
which covers the 6805 family. There are a dozen or two variations of
the 6805. If you provide the full part number I can look it up.
Hopefully the image link I posted will help.
From an initial look at the the book however, it
appears most of the
variations are mask-programmed and I'm not seeing any opportunity to
address or substitute external ROM. There are some EPROM (68705,
windowed of course) and a couple of EEPROM (6805K2,3) variations.
It would be really helpful to know if these chips can be reprogrammed
at all. If not, they're headed for the recycle bin unless someone
here wants them.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
6:09 p.m.
On 2011 Mar 2, at 5:42 PM, Richard wrote:
In article <38a6c661425d97015d89cecf5ed5e293 at cs.ubc.ca>,
Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> writes:
Fortune shines in a small way.
The MC146805E2 is a CMOS 6805 with no internal ROM. 8 pins are
multiplexed data and low order-address (A0-A7), another 5 pins are
higher-order-address (A8-A12). There are an address strobe pin and data
strobe pin for demuxing.
Other major features:
- 112 bytes internal RAM
- 16 programmable bidir IO port lines.
- internal 8-bit timer and 7-bit prescaler.
- on chip oscillator
I see there is only one accumulator in the 6805s, so - as Eric was
hinting at - the base CPU is paired down from the 6800. Haven't checked
whether it is op-code compatible.
I have here the 1984 Motorola "Single-Chip
Microcomputer Data" book,
which covers the 6805 family. There are a dozen or two variations of
the 6805. If you provide the full part number I can look it up.
Hopefully the image link I posted will help.
From an initial look at the the book however, it
appears most of the
variations are mask-programmed and I'm not seeing any opportunity to
address or substitute external ROM. There are some EPROM (68705,
windowed of course) and a couple of EEPROM (6805K2,3) variations.
It would be really helpful to know if these chips can be reprogrammed
at all. If not, they're headed for the recycle bin unless someone
here wants them.
3 Mar
3 Mar
1:56 p.m.
In article <4dece01a1688a435ac02afa322112d3f at cs.ubc.ca>,
Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> writes:
Fortune shines in a small way.
The MC146805E2 is a CMOS 6805 with no internal ROM. 8 pins are
multiplexed data and low order-address (A0-A7), another 5 pins are
higher-order-address (A8-A12). There are an address strobe pin and data
strobe pin for demuxing.
Other major features:
- 112 bytes internal RAM
- 16 programmable bidir IO port lines.
- internal 8-bit timer and 7-bit prescaler.
- on chip oscillator
I see there is only one accumulator in the 6805s, so - as Eric was
hinting at - the base CPU is paired down from the 6800. Haven't checked
whether it is op-code compatible.
Yay, so its not a crap chip after all and could be reused in a
hobbyist project.
If anyone wants one, let me know and I'll collate together requests
and pass it on.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
2 Mar
2 Mar
7:40 p.m.
On 2011 Mar 2, at 5:42 PM, Richard wrote:
It would be really helpful to know if these chips can
be reprogrammed
at all. If not, they're headed for the recycle bin unless someone
here wants them.
I was going to offer to send a photocopy of the pages from the book,
but no need:
http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/356904/MOTOROLA/
MC146805E2.html
Do you know what they came out of and how many of them there are?
3 Mar
3 Mar
1:57 p.m.
In article <3896032baa46ddcd6261f3fa13d44255 at cs.ubc.ca>,
Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> writes:
Do you know what they came out of and how many of them
there are?
No and a "bunch". Don't have an exact number. More than 5.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
2 Mar
2 Mar
5:55 p.m.
On 3/2/11 8:34 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
From an initial look at the the book however, it
appears most of the
variations are mask-programmed and I'm not seeing any opportunity to
address or substitute external ROM. There are some EPROM (68705,
windowed of course) and a couple of EEPROM (6805K2,3) variations.
Hmm, the 68705 is the EPROM family version of the 6805 family? I
wasn't aware of that. I have several 68705 chips kicking around and
haven't done anything with them yet.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
6:15 p.m.
On 2011 Mar 2, at 5:55 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 3/2/11 8:34 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
Yes, from the book, there are (at least) R, U and P variations
(68705R.., 68705U.., 68705P..). The U version has an A/D converter.
I'll look it up if you have the part number handy.
From an initial look at the the book however, it
appears most of the
variations are mask-programmed and I'm not seeing any opportunity to
address or substitute external ROM. There are some EPROM (68705,
windowed of course) and a couple of EEPROM (6805K2,3) variations.
Hmm, the 68705 is the EPROM family version of the 6805 family? I
wasn't aware of that. I have several 68705 chips kicking around and
haven't done anything with them yet.
6:41 p.m.
On 3/2/11 9:15 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
Yes, from the book, there are (at least) R, U and P variations
(68705R.., 68705U.., 68705P..). The U version has an A/D converter. I'll
look it up if you have the part number handy.
I don't; it's at home in FL and I'm in WV for the next several weeks
at least. I have several 40-pin and one 28-pin windowed DIP
68705-family chips. I'll hit you up for that info when I get home, or
more likely, when I sit down to hack on one of them. Thanks!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
From an initial look at the the book however, it
appears most of the
variations are mask-programmed and I'm not seeing any opportunity to
address or substitute external ROM. There are some EPROM (68705,
windowed of course) and a couple of EEPROM (6805K2,3) variations.
Hmm, the 68705 is the EPROM family version of the 6805 family? I
wasn't aware of that. I have several 68705 chips kicking around and
haven't done anything with them yet.
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14 comments
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