18 Jan
2012
18 Jan
'12
3:28 p.m.
In the middle of 1980s, I was user of Intertec Superbrain computer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intertec_Superbrain
I found information about it on Dave Dunfield website:
http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/supbrain/index.htm
I still own it, but original diskettes came with the computer are lost.
(it was CP/M maybe 2.x but not sure, some BASIC, etc) I found also list of
CP/M OS images on Dave's website, but I'm not sure: which one could I take to
boot Superbrain?
I thought, different CP/M machines have different port mappings or...?
And how it is possible to write images to floppy diskettes on PC computer so that
Superbrain can boot from them?
25 Jan
25 Jan
9:45 p.m.
wouldn't you do well to ask Dave? He's probably got images of the s/w.
________________________________
From: Dennis Yurichev <dennis_mailing_lists at conus.info>
To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 10:28 AM
Subject: Intertec Superbrain
In the middle of 1980s, I was user of Intertec Superbrain computer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intertec_Superbrain
I found information about it on Dave Dunfield website:
http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/supbrain/index.htm
I still own it, but original diskettes came with the computer are lost.
(it was CP/M maybe 2.x but not sure, some BASIC, etc) I found also list of
CP/M OS images on Dave's website, but I'm not sure: which one could I take to
boot Superbrain?
I thought, different CP/M machines have different port mappings or...?
And how it is possible to write images to floppy diskettes on PC computer so that
Superbrain can boot from them?
26 Jan
26 Jan
9:18 a.m.
On 1/25/2012 11:45 PM, Chris M wrote:
wouldn't you do well to ask Dave? He's
probably got images of the s/w.
I did, and he wrote Superbrain's disk drives wrote data in some
"inverted" fashion and it is complicated to write them using usual PC
floppy drives, so that's why he didn't put images on website.
5:13 p.m.
On 26 Jan 2012 at 11:18, Dennis Yurichev wrote:
On 1/25/2012 11:45 PM, Chris M wrote:
The data is inverted, but the address marks are normal. By and
large 10-sector formats. I am aware of about 5 different Superbrain
formats: The exception is the 30x128 byte sector MFM format, which
can be written with a controller that uses the National DP8473
controller (common on ISA SCSI+Floppy controllers, particularly
Future Domain and DTC).
Here is what I have samples of: (sector size/sectors per
track/sides/cylinders):
1. 512*10*1*35 MFM
2. 512*10*1*40 MFM
3. 512*10*2*35 MFM1
4. 512*10*2*80 MFM
5. 128*30*1*40 MFM
The Wren Executive shares the second format with the Superbrain.
--Chuck
wouldn't you do well to ask Dave? He's
probably got images of the
s/w.
I did, and he wrote Superbrain's disk drives wrote data in some
"inverted" fashion and it is complicated to write them using usual PC
floppy drives, so that's why he didn't put images on website.
6:03 p.m.
On 1/26/2012 7:13 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
The data is inverted, but the address marks are normal. By and
large 10-sector formats. I am aware of about 5 different Superbrain
formats: The exception is the 30x128 byte sector MFM format, which
can be written with a controller that uses the National DP8473
controller (common on ISA SCSI+Floppy controllers, particularly
Future Domain and DTC).
Here is what I have samples of: (sector size/sectors per
track/sides/cylinders):
1. 512*10*1*35 MFM
2. 512*10*1*40 MFM
3. 512*10*2*35 MFM1
4. 512*10*2*80 MFM
5. 128*30*1*40 MFM
The Wren Executive shares the second format with the Superbrain.
BTW, is it possible to replace Superbrain's drives to something
different? Maybe it would be easier to boot it then and copy image from
replaced drive to original? (My Superbrain has two drives).
wouldn't you do well to ask Dave? He's
probably got images of the
s/w.
I did, and he wrote Superbrain's disk drives wrote data in some
"inverted" fashion and it is complicated to write them using usual PC
floppy drives, so that's why he didn't put images on website.
6:28 p.m.
On 26 Jan 2012 at 20:03, Dennis Yurichev wrote:
BTW, is it possible to replace Superbrain's drives
to something
different? Maybe it would be easier to boot it then and copy image
from replaced drive to original? (My Superbrain has two drives).
Only if you don't have access to 5.25" drives on the system creating
the copies.
Floppy drives are dumb devices in the extreme--not a whole lot
different from an old record-cutting lathe. There's a mechanism to
move the head and some circuitry to amplify the read signal and
circuitry to drive the heads on write--and not much more.
No magic here. The brains are in the controller.
--Chuck
6:30 p.m.
--- On Thu, 1/26/12, Dennis Yurichev <dennis_mailing_lists at conus.info> wrote:
BTW, is it possible to replace Superbrain's drives
to
something
different? Maybe it would be easier to boot it then and copy
image from
replaced drive to original? (My Superbrain has two drives).
It's not the drive that dictates the format. It's the controller hardware in the
computer. The disk drives themselves are all the same. You could easily connect a normal
PC drive to the Superbrain, but it won't change the formats the Superbrain can read -
it'll still work the same as before.
-Ian
7:21 p.m.
________________________________
From: Mr Ian Primus <ian_primus at yahoo.com>
The disk drives themselves are all the same.
C: They're mostly similar, but not all the same. There are varied different types of
drives in the various pseudo pc's I own. They are not all interchangeable to say the
least.
28 Jan
28 Jan
2:12 a.m.
Chris M wrote:
________________________________ From: Mr Ian Primus
<ian_primus at yahoo.com>
The disk drives themselves are all the same.
C: They're mostly similar, but not all the same. There are varied
different types of drives in the various pseudo pc's I own. They are not
all interchangeable to say the least.
There used to be a factory in Hungary which would employ the careful
application of heat, along with a *lot* of pressure, to convert 8" drives
into 3.5"...
;-)
8:29 p.m.
New subject: Intertec Superbrain for Sale
I am buying a Commodore Pet from someone (that I don't know) and he also
says that he has an Intertec Superbrain. If anyone is interested, then I can
give you his contact information.
26 Jan
26 Jan
6:39 p.m.
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012, Dennis Yurichev wrote:
BTW, is it possible to replace Superbrain's drives
to something
different? Maybe it would be easier to boot it then and copy image from
replaced drive to original? (My Superbrain has two drives).
WHY??
There is nothing "special" about the drives. THAT is why the address
marks are "normal".
EVERYTHING that is bizarre about the SuperBrain formats is due to the disk
controller.
It is NOT hard to create SuperBrain disks on a PC.
Just how hard is it to take an array of 512 bytes and invert each byte?
Which programming paradigms don't let you do THAT??
What "CS GRADS" can't do THAT?
The data being inverted means that it isn't as convenient to LOOK at the
data, but that's ALL.
There are OTHER issues, NOT related to inverted data, that make the
Superbrain disk format crowded and flaky.
In addition to the inverted data, be VERY careful about trusting ANYTHING
on the disk labels.
Superbrain, when they added DOUBLE-SIDED to their 40 track double density
format, called it "QUAD DENSITY". THAT IS BULLSHIT. If you have a
Superbrain disk that is labelled "QUAD DENSITY", it is NOT 80 track per
side (that ALMOST everybody else in the world called "QUAD DENSITY") - it
is 40 track per side double sided double density.
Likewise, if you have a Superbrain disk that is labelled "SD", that is NOT
SINGLE DENSITY! Having used up the name "quad density" oprematurely, they
decided to call their 80 cylinder DSDD "SUPER DENSITY", abbreviated
"SD"!!
(80 * 2 * 10 * 512)
At NCC 1983? in Anaheim (the one where a couple of people DIED from the
heat in the TENTS), I talked to a few computer manufacturers about their
disk formats, and the possibilities for disk format conversion. TWO
companies (Televideo and Intertec (Superbrain)) did not understand the
concept; insisted that the ONLY possible reason for transferring files
between disk formats was to PIRATE their proprietary software!; and
threatened to sue me if I included their disk formats in XenoCopy. I
added those two formats that night in my hotel room - they never kept
their promises (of amazing amounts of free publicity)
--
Fred Cisin cisin at xenosoft.com
XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com
PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366
Berkeley, CA 94701-1236
8:31 p.m.
On 1/26/2012 8:39 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
Excuse me, but I don't even have a data to invert...
Does anybody can share OS and/or applications images for Superbrain in
any form?
BTW, is it
possible to replace Superbrain's drives to something
different? Maybe it would be easier to boot it then and copy image from
replaced drive to original? (My Superbrain has two drives).
WHY??
There is nothing "special" about the drives. THAT is why the address
marks are "normal".
EVERYTHING that is bizarre about the SuperBrain formats is due to the disk
controller.
It is NOT hard to create SuperBrain disks on a PC.
Just how hard is it to take an array of 512 bytes and invert each byte?
Which programming paradigms don't let you do THAT??
What "CS GRADS" can't do THAT?
9:20 p.m.
> It is NOT hard to create SuperBrain disks on a
PC.
> Just how hard is it to take an array of 512 bytes and invert each byte?
> Which programming paradigms don't let you do THAT??
> What "CS GRADS" can't do THAT?
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012, Dennis Yurichev wrote:
Excuse me, but I don't even have a data to
invert...
Does anybody can share OS and/or applications images for Superbrain in
any form?
THAT is a MUCH more serious problem than any of the technical issues of
transferring the data!
Sorry, I do not currently have any Superbrain system disks.
Sorry, also, if I made you uncomfortable by poking fun at "inverted
data" being a serious technical impediment. (In most languages it would
be a trivial loop, with a body that did trivial bit twiddling - well,
SCHEME would do it recusively :-)
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
9:55 p.m.
omg just ask Dave to send you images. Just because he didn't put them on his site
doesn't mean he doesn't have them.
________________________________
From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: Intertec Superbrain
> It is NOT hard to create SuperBrain disks on a
PC.
> Just how hard is it to take an array of 512 bytes and invert each byte?
> Which programming paradigms don't let you do THAT??
> What "CS GRADS" can't do THAT?
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012, Dennis Yurichev wrote:
Excuse me, but I don't even have a data to
invert...
Does anybody can share OS and/or applications images for Superbrain in
any form?
THAT is a MUCH more serious problem than any of the technical issues of
transferring the data!
Sorry, I do not currently have any Superbrain system disks.
Sorry, also, if I made you uncomfortable by poking fun at "inverted
data" being a serious technical impediment.? (In most languages it would
be a trivial loop, with a body that did trivial bit twiddling - well,
SCHEME would do it recusively :-)
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred? ? ??? ??? cisin at xenosoft.com
27 Jan
27 Jan
7:25 a.m.
On 26 Jan 2012 at 13:55, Chris M wrote:
omg just ask Dave to send you images. Just because he
didn't put them
on his site doesn't mean he doesn't have them.
I believe that Dave can't do that because he has the QD disks with FA
DAMs. It turns out that FBs are fine, but perhaps he doesn't have a
way to change them (the NEC controllers can't write FA DAMs).
It's actually quite interesting when you get a floppy created with
one and files written to it using the other. Sort of a mishmash of
FA and FB DAMs.
--Chuck
3:44 a.m.
On 27 Jan 2012 at 3:45, Dennis Yurichev wrote:
On 1/27/2012 1:04 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
QD (Quad Density).
I'll have a look. ISTR that some QD floppies used DAMs of FA, rather
than the normal FB. I don't think the controller cared, however.
--Chuck
Excuse
me, but I don't even have a data to invert...
Does anybody can share OS and/or applications images for Superbrain
in any form?
Probably, but *which* Superbrain and what format do you have?
4:36 a.m.
On 27 Jan 2012 at 3:45, Dennis Yurichev wrote:
On 1/27/2012 1:04 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
QD (Quad Density).
But it's not--according to my disks, the QD is 48 tpi double-sided
MFM. There *is* a 96 tpi format, but I believe it belongs to the
Superbrain II.
At any rate, I've got a QD floppy here with a CP/M boot record.
However the only program on the floppy is NSWEEP and a bunch of .LBR
files.
It should boot your system, but you'll have to get the usual CP/M
utilities from someone else.
If that's okay, I'll send an image along.
--Chuck
Excuse
me, but I don't even have a data to invert...
Does anybody can share OS and/or applications images for Superbrain
in any form?
Probably, but *which* Superbrain and what format do you have?
6:02 a.m.
> QD (Quad Density).
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012,
Chuck Guzis wrote:
But it's not--according to my disks, the QD is 48
tpi double-sided
MFM.
But Superbrain argued that if MFM is DOUBLE density, then double SIDED MFM
is "QUAD" density!
There *is* a 96 tpi format, but I believe it belongs
to the
Superbrain II.
SD (SUPER density)
Remember "sizes of olives" ("jumbo colossal", etc.)
Since it is already known that there is "non-stantard" use of terms, WE
need to avoid use of "quad", and talk ONLY in terms of 48 V 96 TPI, etc.
28 Jan
28 Jan
4:23 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Yurichev
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 10:28 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Intertec Superbrain
In the middle of 1980s, I was user of Intertec
Superbrain computer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intertec_Superbrain
Speaking of Intertec Superbrain QD. If I was looking to buy one, how much
would I reasonably expect to pay for one of these systems ?
Jeff Brace
4731
days inactive
4741
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20 comments
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participants (7)
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arkaxow＠gmail.com -
cclist＠sydex.com -
chrism3667＠yahoo.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
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ian_primus＠yahoo.com -
jules.richardson99＠gmail.com