6 Mar
2007
6 Mar
'07
7 p.m.
Dwight,
The early Data I/O burners took individual sets of digital/analog cards
to program each prom or family. For models 1 through 9, these were
separate cards. In Models 17 and 19, the same two cards were combined in
a Card Pak (carrier) which snapped into the chassis just like the
UniPaks.
For the Intel 1702A and equivalents, the card set was the 909/919-1183-1
(909 meant the two cards alone, 919 is the same two cards in a
programming pak carrier. In either case, the card set consisted of a
"digital" card, 701-1173, and an "analog" card, 701-1183-1. The cards
were joined by cable 709-1608. In addition, a special socket adapter,
p/n 1047, was used for these PROMs. I have the programming pak carrier
minus the socket adapter and with a set of 1063 cards installed.
Unfortunately, I have no idea what the target PROM is for this card set.
I do have the calibrator and 1702 adapter card for it but without the
programming cards it really isn't too useful.
Scooter (riatla) is one of the eBay "good guys" and would probably be
willing to take a peek inside the chassis to see what cards are
included.
More to the point, I figured by now that you or one of the other listers
would have come up with a modern programmer for the 1702A - can't be too
difficult other than the -48v programming requirements and I expect a
few others would be interested in the project if someone designed one.
Jack
--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.7/711 - Release Date: 3/5/2007
9:41 AM
6 Mar
6 Mar
7:27 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
Hello,
I just recently got approved as a participant on the list.
I seem to have a growing collection of old and obsolete gear and I have a
lot of fun with it. I have three VAXen (a VAXstation 4000/60 with 32 MB RAM
running OpenBSD 4.0, a VAXstation 3100/unsure :) that's undeployed, and a
VAX 4000/100 that's also undeployed), a couple of Suns (a Sparcstation 20
with dual Ross HyperSparc 180 MHz processors and 288 MB RAM running NetBSD
3.1, and an Ultra 1/170E with 640 MB RAM running Debian Stable), a Commodore
128, a few Commodore 64s, two Commodore VIC-20s, and some obsolete i386
stuff too. :)
I'll mostly watch for awhile, I imagine, but I'm here, and I like the
content so far.
Jim MacKenzie
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
http://www.photojim.ca
7:45 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
On 3/6/07, Jim MacKenzie <jim at photojim.ca> wrote:
Hello,
I just recently got approved as a participant on the list.
Welcome, Jim.
I seem to have a growing collection of old and
obsolete gear and I have a
lot of fun with it. I have three VAXen (a VAXstation 4000/60 with 32 MB RAM
running OpenBSD 4.0, a VAXstation 3100/unsure :) that's undeployed, and a
VAX 4000/100 that's also undeployed), a couple of Suns (a Sparcstation 20
with dual Ross HyperSparc 180 MHz processors and 288 MB RAM running NetBSD
3.1, and an Ultra 1/170E with 640 MB RAM running Debian Stable), a Commodore
128, a few Commodore 64s, two Commodore VIC-20s, and some obsolete i386
stuff too. :)
Nice variety in your collection. VAXen, Suns, Commodores... sounds
like stuff at my place, and the Suns don't sound all that obsolete to
me. ;-)
Cheers,
-ethan
8:27 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
a Commodore
128, a few Commodore 64s, two Commodore VIC-20s,
Nice to see another c.s.cbm face here.
--
--------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ ---
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- PowerPC inside! ------------------------------------------------------------
7:48 a.m.
New subject: New subscriber
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jules Richardson" <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk>
To: <General at hobart.photojim.prv>; "Discussion at
hobart.photojim.prv:On-Topic
and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: New subscriber
Welcome, pull up a VAX cluster etc. :-)
I've thought about it, but the two or three times I've tried installing
OpenVMS, it's been quite an adventure... :)
Jim
8:06 a.m.
New subject: New subscriber
On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Jules Richardson wrote:
Jim MacKenzie wrote:
Speaking of which, and continuing my wantwantwant: does anyone have a
fairly recent OpenVMS VAX (i.e. beyond 7.3-something, whatever version
shipped TCP/IP with ssh v2, or better) ? In return I can assist with kits
Hello,
I just recently got approved as a participant on the list.
Welcome, pull up a VAX cluster etc. :-) from a recent-ish CONDIST for OpenVMS VAX.
Cheers,
Andrew
1:29 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
Hello,
I just recently got approved as a participant on the list.
Greetings and welcome to the list.
I seem to have a growing collection of old and obsolete gear and I have a
Be warned that if you're not careful, that hardware collection will take
over your house (and any other places you can possibly store it). This is
the voice of experience...
I'll mostly watch for awhile, I imagine, but
I'm here, and I like the
content so far.
We do get flames, alas, normally when I forget that there are people who
don't own (or even want to own) an oscilloscope, and that such people do
not intend to attack their porr little vintage computers with a soldering
iron...
(Since you're new here, I'd better explain that I came into computing
very much from the electronics/hardware side of things, and do
component-level repair on everything I own, treat microcode source
listings as bedtime reading and so on. Sometimes I forget that some
people prefer to program these fine machines...)
Happy Hacking!
-tony
2:42 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
On 7/3/07 21:29, "Tony Duell" <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Be warned that if you're not careful, that
hardware collection will take
over your house (and any other places you can possibly store it). This is
the voice of experience...
I'll echo that experience since I'm currently faced with the prospect of
moving my entire collection 250 miles to where I'm now forced to live.
Little ol' me needs a 6 room house to put everything in since I've decided
that because I have to move it all I'm only willing to do it once;
fortunately I've found a place that's big enough as long as the owner is a
bit flexible with the rent......
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
3:10 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Graham" <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: New subscriber
I'll echo that experience since I'm currently
faced with the prospect of
moving my entire collection 250 miles to where I'm now forced to live.
Little ol' me needs a 6 room house to put everything in since I've decided
that because I have to move it all I'm only willing to do it once;
fortunately I've found a place that's big enough as long as the owner is a
bit flexible with the rent......
--
Adrian/Witchy
So that means you are moving into a place you cannot afford just because of
the collection?
3:28 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
On 7/3/07 23:10, "Teo Zenios" <teoz at neo.rr.com> wrote:
Nooo, I can afford it, I'm not about to let 450-odd machines get me into
debt! I made a mistake and thought the rent was less than it actually was :)
A
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
I'll echo
that experience since I'm currently faced with the prospect of
moving my entire collection 250 miles to where I'm now forced to live.
Little ol' me needs a 6 room house to put everything in since I've decided
that because I have to move it all I'm only willing to do it once;
fortunately I've found a place that's big enough as long as the owner is a
bit flexible with the rent......
--
Adrian/Witchy
So that means you are moving into a place you cannot afford just because of
the collection? 
11:25 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
On Mar 7, 2007, at 6:10 PM, Teo Zenios wrote:
Some things really are more important than money..
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
I'll echo
that experience since I'm currently faced with the
prospect of
moving my entire collection 250 miles to where I'm now forced to
live.
Little ol' me needs a 6 room house to put everything in since I've
decided
that because I have to move it all I'm only willing to do it once;
fortunately I've found a place that's big enough as long as the
owner is a
bit flexible with the rent......
So that means you are moving into a place you cannot afford just
because of
the collection? 
8 Mar
8 Mar
12:38 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
Dave McGuire wrote:
On Mar 7, 2007, at 6:10 PM, Teo Zenios wrote:
Some things really are more important than money..
Indeed. My collection is the primary reason I bought a house.
Peace... Sridhar
I'll
echo that experience since I'm currently faced with the prospect of
moving my entire collection 250 miles to where I'm now forced to live.
Little ol' me needs a 6 room house to put everything in since I've
decided
that because I have to move it all I'm only willing to do it once;
fortunately I've found a place that's big enough as long as the owner
is a
bit flexible with the rent......
So that means you are moving into a place you cannot afford just
because of
the collection? 
12:52 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
And thusly were the wise words spake by Sridhar Ayengar
Dave McGuire wrote:
And reinforced the floors by adding extra supports in the basement!! :)
Cheers,
Bryan
On Mar 7, 2007, at 6:10 PM, Teo Zenios wrote:
Some things really are more important than money..
Indeed. My collection is the primary reason I bought a house.
I'll
echo that experience since I'm currently faced with the prospect of
moving my entire collection 250 miles to where I'm now forced to live.
Little ol' me needs a 6 room house to put everything in since I've
decided
that because I have to move it all I'm only willing to do it once;
fortunately I've found a place that's big enough as long as the owner
is a
bit flexible with the rent......
So that means you are moving into a place you cannot afford just
because of
the collection?
1:07 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
Bryan Pope wrote:
Indeed. My collection is the primary reason I bought a house.
And reinforced the floors by adding extra supports in the basement!! :)
*ahem* Yes.
Peace... Sridhar
> I'll
echo that experience since I'm currently faced with the prospect of
> moving my entire collection 250 miles to where I'm now forced to live.
> Little ol' me needs a 6 room house to put everything in since I've
> decided
> that because I have to move it all I'm only willing to do it once;
> fortunately I've found a place that's big enough as long as the owner
> is a
> bit flexible with the rent......
So that means you are moving into a place you cannot afford just
because of
the collection?
Some things really are more important than money.. 
1:26 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
On 3/8/07, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
the classiccmp version of case-modding
But does the house have external blinkenlights? I wired my place with
X-10 w/CP-290 and a C-64 driving it, so I guess I can say "yes". :-)
-ethan
Indeed. My collection is the primary reason I bought
a house.
And reinforced the floors by adding extra supports in the basement!! :)
1:36 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
Ethan Dicks wrote:
On 3/8/07, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com>
wrote:
the classiccmp version of case-modding
But does the house have external blinkenlights? I wired my place with
X-10 w/CP-290 and a C-64 driving it, so I guess I can say "yes". :-)
Some years ago Dave McGuire and I were discussing the possibility of
putting an analog bandwidth-utilization meter on the roof of a house. 8-)
Peace... Sridhar
Indeed. My collection is the primary reason I bought
a house.
And reinforced the floors by adding extra supports in the basement!! :) 
1:28 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
Fred Cisin wrote:
the classiccmp version of case-modding
... except that if you leave things alone, the case mods itself.
Indeed. My collection is the primary reason I bought
a house.
And reinforced the floors by adding extra supports in the basement!! :)
7 Mar
7 Mar
3:50 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
Adrian Graham wrote:
I'll echo that experience since I'm currently
faced with the prospect of
moving my entire collection 250 miles to where I'm now forced to live.
Little ol' me needs a 6 room house to put everything in since I've decided
that because I have to move it all I'm only willing to do it once;
fortunately I've found a place that's big enough as long as the owner is a
bit flexible with the rent......
I'm not sure that renting goes with "only willing to do it once" :-)
4:02 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
On 7/3/07 23:50, "Jules Richardson" <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
OK, Once within the next 12 months.........
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
that because I
have to move it all I'm only willing to do it once;
fortunately I've found a place that's big enough as long as the owner is a
bit flexible with the rent......
I'm not sure that renting goes with "only willing to do it once" :-)
3:12 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: New subscriber
We do get flames, alas, normally when I forget that
there are people who
don't own (or even want to own) an oscilloscope, and that such people do
not intend to attack their porr little vintage computers with a soldering
iron...
-tony
I don't have a scope, just a handheld meter and a soldering iron so where am
I in the equation?
4:50 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
> We do get flames, alas, normally when I forget
that there are people who
> don't own (or even want to own) an oscilloscope, and that such people do
> not intend to attack their porr little vintage computers with a soldering
> iron...
I don't have a scope, just a handheld meter and a
soldering iron so where am
I in the equation?
Well, I've said many times the most important piece of test gear is not a
'scope or multimeter, it's that thing between your ears. Your call :-)
-tony
5:45 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
On 8 Mar 2007 at 0:50, Tony Duell wrote:
Well, I've said many times the most important
piece of test gear is not a
'scope or multimeter, it's that thing between your ears. Your call :-)
That reminds me--has anyone thought to clone the HP Logic Dart?
There have been numerous times when I've thought one would really be
handy.
Cheers,
Chuck
11:43 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
On Mar 7, 2007, at 8:45 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
I'd love to have one of those little buggers.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Well, I've
said many times the most important piece of test gear
is not a
'scope or multimeter, it's that thing between your ears. Your
call :-)
That reminds me--has anyone thought to clone the HP Logic Dart?
There have been numerous times when I've thought one would really be
handy.
8 Mar
8 Mar
3:09 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
On 8 Mar 2007 at 0:50, Tony Duell wrote:
I once saw it listed in a catalague as made by Fluke, but that might well
have been a misprint.
Well, I've said many times the most important
piece of test gear is not a
'scope or multimeter, it's that thing between your ears. Your call :-)
That reminds me--has anyone thought to clone the HP Logic Dart? There have been numerous times when I've thought
one would really be
handy.
I bought one when it was current, and I love it. For those who've never
used one, it's a handheld instrument whcih combines a continuity/diode
tester, a 3-channel 100MHx logic analuyser and something called
'investigate mode'. The last is the most useful of the lot. You have one
probe and a ground lead. Touch the probe on a point in the circuit, the
instrument displays the average voltage at that point (good for checking
PSUs), the frequency (counting theshold crossings per second, I guess),
for checking the master clock, and has a couple of LEDs that act as a
normal logic probe. Hit a button and it records the logic-level waveform
(high/low/undefined) at that point.
It's that last part that makes it much more useful than a normal logic
probe. For example, I had a 9820 calculator on the bench, this is a
bit-serial design. Running a logic probe along the outputs of the M
(memory address) register, which is a 16 bit shift register made up of 4
off 4 bit chips showed that the top 4 bits were changing, all the rest
were stuck low (it's loaded from the MSB end). OK, obvious, change the
snecond-from-top chip... Alas the fault was still there. The LogicDart
showed me that the timing of the outputs of the top chip was crazy with
pulse widths equal to half the clock frequency. Therefore the
second-from-top chip was working correctly, its input was always low on
at the active clock edge. Changed the top chip. the machine sprang to life.
What I'll do when the LogicDart fails I don't know. There's nothing
available now that comes close to its functionality and convenience.
There never was a sercvice manual available for it, and most of the logic
is inside 2 ASICs anyway (therre's also an 80188 CPU, EPROM, RAM, display
driver and a lot oa anloge stuff round the front end and PSU). Oh well...
-tony
7 Mar
7 Mar
5:18 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
We do get
flames, alas, normally when I forget that there are people who
don't own (or even want to own) an oscilloscope, and that such people do
not intend to attack their porr little vintage computers with a soldering
iron...
I don't have a scope, just a handheld meter and a soldering iron so where am
I in the equation? 
7:08 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
It seems test gear can become a "sickness"
too ... A quick inventory
turned up 7 scopes, 2 logic analysers, at least a dozen multimeters,
4 counters, 4 EPROM programmers, several irons and stations, more
emulators and evaluation boards than I care to count, and a whole
pile more "essential tools" ...
And I thought it was just the classic systems that
were crowding me
out of my workshop...
I'll be happy to do my part towards relieving your test-gear clutter
next time I'm in your neck of the woods! :-)
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
3:48 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
Tony Duell wrote:
Be warned that if you're not careful, that
hardware collection will take
over your house (and any other places you can possibly store it). This is
the voice of experience...
You're lucky in not owning a car, Tony - mine tends to be permanently filled
with vintage bits that won't fit in the house :-)
8 Mar
8 Mar
12:06 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
Ive been hiding a sun server in the car so the missus doesnt see it!!!!
On 7 Mar 2007, at 23:48, Jules Richardson wrote:
Tony Duell wrote:
Be warned that if you're not careful, that
hardware collection will
take
over your house (and any other places you can possibly store it).
This is the voice of experience...
You're lucky in not owning a car, Tony - mine tends to be permanently
filled with vintage bits that won't fit in the house :-)
7 Mar
7 Mar
7:20 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
In article <003001c76068$7b8aaea0$0adea8c0 at melbourne>,
"Jim MacKenzie" <jim at photojim.ca> writes:
I just recently got approved as a participant on the
list.
Cool!
I seem to have a growing collection of old and
obsolete gear and I have a
lot of fun with it. [...]
Having fun is important! :-)
I have three VAXen (a VAXstation 4000/60 with 32 MB
RAM running OpenBSD 4.0,
I've got a 4000/300 running VMS something. I need to back up its
system drive and then I was thinking of putting OpenVMS on it. I
still need to get the hobbyist CD...
a VAXstation 3100/unsure :) that's undeployed, and
a
VAX 4000/100 that's also undeployed), a couple of Suns (a Sparcstation 20
with dual Ross HyperSparc 180 MHz processors and 288 MB RAM running NetBSD
3.1, and an Ultra 1/170E with 640 MB RAM running Debian Stable), a Commodore
128, a few Commodore 64s, two Commodore VIC-20s, and some obsolete i386
stuff too. :)
I've got a Sun 3/110 and a SPARCstation 5 that I need to put through a
checkout procedure, but haven't done anything yet.
I have a CBM 8032 that's probably the start of all my vintage madness ;-).
I've written a few little basic programs for it and stored them on the
8052 floppy. I'm trying to get a FORTH deployed on it so that I can
make it do something a little more interesting than running
interpreted basic.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
3:33 p.m.
New subject: New subscriber
I have a CBM
8032 that's probably the start of all my vintage madness ;-)
Have we ever had a "what got you started" thread?
Probably :-)
I think i've posted my story before, but for the benefit of people who
joined the list after I last posted it, here goes...
21 years ago (Eeek, was it really that long ago), I was building a
homebrew computer. Building as in from chips, not from PCBs... And I
needed a keyboard. This was before the days of cheap PC clone keyboards,
at .least in the UK, bit I saw an advert in 'Wireless World' magazine for
a sale of electronic equipment and listed were 'ASCII encoded keyboards'
for, I think, \pounds 4.00 each. Even better, it was in Cambridge where I
was studying at the time.
So I went a long. And bought a keyboard. But also there was a Philips
P850 minicomputer, priced at the scrap metal value (or close to it) --
\pounds 25.00. Well, it looked beautiful with a nice lights-and-switches
panel, and even had a service manual with it. So I bought it, and somehow
got it back to my room.
After playing with it a bit, and talking to some eccentric friends, we
realised that unless somebody did something then 20 years or more of
computer history was going to vanish. At that time old computers were not
collectible, and museums only bothered with things like bits of the
Babbage engines (important, sure, but not the whole story). So we did
something. And I've been colelcting bits of computers ever since...
-tony
7 Mar
7 Mar
8:04 a.m.
At 9:00 PM -0600 3/6/07, Jack Rubin wrote:
Dwight,
The early Data I/O burners took individual sets of digital/analog cards
to program each prom or family. For models 1 through 9, these were
separate cards. In Models 17 and 19, the same two cards were combined in
a Card Pak (carrier) which snapped into the chassis just like the
UniPaks.
...
More to the point, I figured by now that you or one of the other listers
would have come up with a modern programmer for the 1702A - can't be too
difficult other than the -48v programming requirements and I expect a
few others would be interested in the project if someone designed one.
The good folks at Andromeda Research made two adapters for their
Eprom programmer. One that simply reads the 1702 and the other also
writes. They are not cheap though. The reader is $69US (I bought one
and it works very well) whereas the writer is something like $695US!
http://www.arlabs.com/adapters.htm#SPECIAL%20MEMORY%20DEVICE%20ADAPTERS
It seems they cost for the burner reflects their concern for a
product that is reliable - not a kit. Talk to them about it!
Another adapter:
http://www.testech-elect.com/elnec/additional_modules.htm
There is a company in San Francisco that copies 1702s very inexpensively.
http://www.demoboard.com/anchor.htm
John :-#)#
Jack
--
--
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
8 Mar
8 Mar
8:34 a.m.
New subject: hard drive specs
Hi All
I found a good site with a lot of hard drive specs.
It looks like a good site to add to ones bookmarks.
http://www.4drives.com/DRIVESPECS/
Later
Dwight
_________________________________________________________________
The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian.
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34 comments
20 participants
participants (20)
-
andy＠smokebelch.org -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bpope＠wordstock.com -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dave06a＠dunfield.com -
dkelvey＠hotmail.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
jack.rubin＠ameritech.net -
jim＠photojim.ca -
jrr＠flippers.com -
julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk -
legalize＠xmission.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
mouse＠Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
rogpugh＠mac.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk