Jay West wrote: Wasn't there a discussion a long while ago about these same symptoms? iirc. The run light may stick on if the grant request line gets broken. This can be caused by missing/loose/bad cards, missing grant jumpers, etc. (this from memory, so I may be remembering it wrong)

Henk wrote... IF you changed the dipswitches on the UBI board as I mentioned in my previous email, AND you get the same response as above (^P gives another (program) display)... then I bet your front panel board (slot 1AB) or your MFM board is toasty. Jay

Henk wrote... A few things come to my (new and uninformed) brain on this. Perhaps your console emulator/diagnostic rom is bad? This is on the MFM card right next to the other roms. If you have another MFM, I'd swap it. If it fixes the problem. try moving the console/diag rom from the working one to the non-working one. If it then works, you know the first one had a bad console/diag rom. The M7090 board has (I *THINK*) little purpose other than signal level conversion and/or conditioning. All the real logic (and the 8085!) is on the MFM board. So if it's not a bad console/diag rom, I think it smells of MFM failure. Whichever you find easiest/possible to replace first.... Jay

Don wrote: Yes, that is in the manual. I have the front panel switch on "LOCAL". Am I correct that the messages "(Console V3.40C)", "(Program)", come If the first 2 mesages also come from the MFM module, then why can't the prompt come from there? If all 3 messages come from the MFM, I would say that the MFM is not toast ... Can some hardware problem hold the ">>>", but let the initial two messages get out? - Henk. This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

Gooijen, Henk wrote: The above behavior of the console now appears to be normal (^P gets you to the >>> prompt; trying to do T/E with the CPU in 'run' mode gets you the ?CP halt error, indicating you must halt the cpu via H before running these commands). Now when you give the H command the CPU does not appear to halt. For my 11/34 and 11/44 I found that when I first got them they would become 'mechanically' unreliable if I let them sit without jiggling boards around for more than a couple of months. Finally I broke down and bought a contact cleaner package from CAIG Labs (DeoxIT) and went over all the gold fingers on each of the boards. I have not seen a problem since then; the systems have been in place for almost 9 mos without any board reseating done. I had similar problems with my PDP-8m and the over-the-top connectors (really the same DEC backplane connector) on omnibus modules. I found several instances where some contacts had developed high resistance (50-100ohm) vs the normal sub one ohm. I had suspected bad logic, but it was really just a high resistance connection (which old TTL just does not tolerate very well, due to reasonably high I/O current). I suspected I had bad boards in my 8m EAE, but in reality all the logic turned out to be fully functional, it was just bad connections. I know back at DEC when we had a unibus CPU problem, the first thing we almost always did was pull the boards, run the trusty eraser up and down the fingers, and then seat/reseat the boards a couple of times. This invariably worked. Just a thought.

I pulled all boards from the 11/44 backplane and used an eraser to clean all the contact fingers. Then I vacuumed the slots. After wiping the boards clean of any small particles, I reseated the boards ... the system still shows the same problem, the RUN LED stays on and I don't get the >>> prompt. Then I swapped the CTRL (M7095) board. ^P gives me the >>> again. However, "H" (halt) gives the response "?Failed to halt". The "T" (selftest) command seems OK, the LED on the MFM board is briefly ON. As the MFM board was also suggested to be causing problems, I replaced the MFM board. Now the RUN LED stays OFF! However, I get an other problem. The VT100 displays: CONSOLE ?22 CP HUNG I can enter the T and the H command. That works fine. But, for example, an E (examine) command gives the ?22CP HUNG. When I install the original MFM board again, the RUN LED stays ON, but the "E 2" command gives the response " P 00000002 000001" and the H command says "?Failed to halt". According to the documentation you can do EXAMine commands while the system is running, but you can not do a DEPosit. Proof: I entered "D 2 2" and the response is "?Halt CP". So, one MFM board gives "?22 CP HUNG", but the RUN LED is OFF, the other MFM board allows examine, but the RUN LED stays ON, and you can not halt the processor. I am still reading, but give these symptoms perhaps clues? thanks, - Henk. This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

Don wrote: Yes, I also kind-a hoped that cleaning the fingers would correct the problem. I actually did think of the power supply, but didn't do any measurements for 3 reasons. 1. the BA11-A is still in the H960, only top lid is removed 2. I read about the "reputation" of the 5-fold switcher PSU ... 3. I read the documentation ... Regarding reason #3, the System Tech manual says on page 3-10 that the CPU only needs the +5.1V power supply. I was thinking that if I get anything on the VT100, that +5.1V must be present. So, I did not check that! BTW, I wonder if the table 3-7 is correct. Doesn't the CIM (M7090) need +/- 12 or 15 V. for the RS-232 signals? Or the MFM, I'd need to check the schematics. I did try with FPU removed, and I did read that you can run the 11/44 without CACHE. I will try that too this evening. And running without UBI didn't even occur to me! The memory has dedicated slots, so it is not accessed through the UBI module? I will try the /TB option, but I understand that if I can't halt the CPU, the /TB option will not help much ... Anyway, thanks for the tips, Don! I will try the system without FPU, CACHE, UBI and just one memory module installed. To get a running CPU that can be halted, I assume you can even run the 11/44 without *any* memory modules? OK, to do EXAM/DEP a memory module is useful :-) If all this fails, I guess I will need to pull out the scope, as I assume that microcode stepping will not work eitehr as long as you can not halt the CPU ... Oh well, something good has come from this. I updated the 11/44 pages on my site a little :-) thanks, - Henk. This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

Don wrote: Ok, I did some tests. Still without the VOM or scope ... LOL - yes, I found that out this evening! I will write down my findings. They might be useful in the future ... This is (was) my 11/44 backplane "usage": slot pos board 1 a-b M7090 CIM c-f empty 2 a-f empty 3 a-f M7093 FP11-F 4 a-f M7094 data path 5 a-f M7095 ctrl 6 a-f M7096 MFM 7 a-f M7097 cache 8 a-f M7098 UBI 9 a-f M8722 22-bit ECC 10 a-f M8743 MS11-P 11 a-f empty 12 a-f empty 13 a-f Quadrasync E 14 a-b M9202 (to next backplane) c-f G7273 Note the two different memory boards ... this system was working fine! As first test, I pulled everything, except slot 1, 4, 5, 6. Slot 13 has in position c-d a G7273, and slot 14 has in a-b the M9302, and c-d a G7273. Result: RUN led is OFF (hurray), but I get "?CP didn't start" and the following output on my entries at the >>> prompt: ?Already halted ?Parity error Test #2, inspired by the "parity error" message, I 'added' slot 9. Power up the system. RUN led is still OFF, these are the messages: (Console V3.40C) (Program) (Console) ?CP didn't start ?Parity error Ok, the memory board does not add problems, nor does it take a problem away. I leave it installed, and 'add' slot 9, UBI ... Power up again, the RUN led is still OFF. These are the messages: (Console V3.40C) (Program) (Console) Halted at 165020 ?Already halted That last response takes a few seconds, so the test needs some time! Then I tried the following: P 00010000 000011 >>> d 1000 123456 P 00010000 123456 It's all looking great now! The "Halted at 165020" is because of how the switch on the CTRL (M7095) is set, and how the console switch is set (HALT). If the console switch is set to CONT the line following (Console) is "Halted at 165714". Address 165020 is a familiar address, it is the start address of the PROM to start the CPU *with* diagnostics. I always use that address on my 11/34! Then I 'added' the cache option (M7097). The system is still fine, no matter how the 2 switches on the cache module are set (forced generation of misses). Adding the FP11-F still gives a healthy system. Just 2 boards left from the point where I started, the Quadrasync E and the second memory board. I chose to install the second memory board first. Power on ... RUN led stays ON (!), console printout is not what it should be, allthough a prompt appears when I hit ^P. Entering "d 1000 55" returns the "?Halt CP" message. When I remove that second memory board all is back to "normal"! I have not had the time to add the Quadrasync E board (leaving the 2nd memory board out of the system of course, and I have not yet made any measurements ... I know, I should! But I start guessing that the +/-12V perhaps has an issue. That might explain (?) the problem when the 2nd memory board is added, but why is the first memory board OK? Perhaps just the logic on that 2nd memory board died, and hangs the system (not the UNIBUS as the memory is *not* on the UNIBUS!). Note, the 2 memory boards are different, but the system was in productive operational condition at a company in that configuration. The +/-12V "issue" (if there is one) also might explain why the FAULT light is always ON on the RL02. That was also in perfect order till a week ago ... So, Don ... cache is indeed optional, UBI (as I found out) is not!! Tomorrow I will check the power supply voltages. +5.1V is expected to be OK, but the +/-12V ... hmmm, how come that the RS-232 signals to and from the VT100 are working ...? thanks! (a happier looking) Henk. This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

On 11/14/06, Jim Beacon <jim at g1jbg.co.uk> wrote: I've run into that sort of situation before - we had a COMBOARD customer with an 11/750... everything worked in the machine except our board. Turns out that we really needed -15V from the Unibus and nothing else in the machine did, even though the console serial port "worked". Getting them to get their -15V PSU repaired got us up and running, too. -ethan

Gooijen, Henk wrote: By first memory board I infer that you mean the MS11-M M8722 256KB. This board requires both +5V for logic and +-12V for the memories. By second memory board I infer that you mean the MS11-P M8753 1MB. This board is 5V only; it does not require either +-12V or +-15V. I would have expected it to be the other way around (MS11-M does not work but the MS11-P does) but hey. It could be a stuck driver on the MS11-P that is pulling some memory/unibus control signals to ground, hanging the bus and cpu. Not sure about that; if the 2nd memory board is the MS11-P, then it only uses +5V, so it should have no interaction with +/-12V.

[...] No, I'm really guessing here, but to me that sounds as though that defective memory board is asserting one or other of ACLO and DCLO (you should check this with a logic probe or whatever). Now why should a memeory board assert one of those signals? Well, I am digging into the depths of my brain, but I seem to rememebr at least one DEC memory board for the 11/44 did some quite complex initialisation at power-on (basically it wrote to every word of the memory array to put valid parity or ECC (I forget which it used) bits in place). During that initialisation, it prevented the processor from starting by (you guessed it), asserting one of ACLO or DCLO. In which case, if there's a fault in that initialisation logic, it could permanently assert said signal. As I said, it's a guess. But it might give you a place to start looking. -tony

I have a 1977 Hewlett-Packard Measurement/Computation catalog for auction on Ebay. Besides the hundreds of pages of test equipment, it includes calculators and accessories, 21MX processorss and options, HP1000, HP2000 and HP3000 Series II systems, 7900/7905 storage, 7970 tape drives, and 264X terminals. Item #110055177475. Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/

In article <455ACE22.14183.4226EF4 at cclist.sydex.com>, "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> writes: In a perfect market, yes. However, what we have here is a sparse market with frenzy pricing. For instance, I purchased a Beehive terminal branded as a Cromemco terminal. Ordinarily, a Beehive terminal is pretty rare in the first place, but putting the Cromemco branding on it made it more attractive to collectors. Ironicly, this is probably what kept it from hitting the scrapper! However, because of the collector interest in the Cromemco branding, bidding on this terminal went up to like $350 before I was able to secure it. A regular Beehive terminal of comparable model would probably not go to $100 unless there are some other weird terminal collectors like me out there :-). Beehive doesn't command much interest, but Cromemco does. Same hardware, different nameplate. The only way to determine "market" price from things like ePay is to monitor them over a long enough time to have sufficient "comps" to determine which items sold abnormally low and which sold abnormally high. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

On 15 Nov 2006 at 12:33, 9000 VAX wrote: ...and there "rare" is a comparative thing. There were far more more Apple III's produced than, say Jonos systems. Yet it seems that the Apple will command a higher price. Cheers, Chuck

On 15 Nov 2006 at 10:08, Jules Richardson wrote: Let's see what ePay turns up in the "Completed Items". Item 230051007402, Apple III, system unit, ended for $250 with "Buy It Now" Item 200045396534, Apple III, system software package (4 floppies), $175.00 Can't really find anything else, so the /// system unit may be an anomaly. I'd always viewed the /// as a huge flop on the part of Apple and have turned down a few that have been offered to me. I'm just trying to understand what makes an item "collectible". Perhaps the cachet of a major maker, particularly one that enjoys something of a religious following has something to do with it. Cheers, Chuck

Keep in mind that there are a LOT of "new" collectors, who don't really know anything about those days. They've HEARD about Altair, they've HEARD about Apple, they've HEARD about Compaq, etc. Therefore, they are likely to be more interested in an Apple ][ than in a Jonos. They're likely to be more interested in an early Compaq, than in a Coby or an Elcompco. Therefore, although rarity would seemingly be an important factor in collectability value, name recognition goes further. 'course it could be argued that "significance" of the item counts. THAT is why an Apple 1 is so highly prized.

Fred Cisin wrote: Every collector or enthusiast has their own reasons for their interest in this hobby, and those reasons usually define what specific machines they're interested in. Myself, I will pay top dollar (if I'm able) in order to get my hands on a machine that I lusted after during my childhood. For example, in my teens, I desperately wanted a Ferguson BigBoard but couldn't afford one. I saw those ads every month in BYTE and just drooled and drooled. Now, I'd just about kill to get one, even though they're really not all THAT rare...I just haven't managed to find one that's available yet. Earlier than that, I drooled over the TRS-80 Model I in the Radio Shack catalogs, back when that model was current. A kind Radio Shack employee once took me aside and showed me around the system when they were first introduced. I wanted one so badly I could practically taste it. I begged and pleaded, but my family did not have a lot of money, and I was never able to get one. I finally got one on eBay about a year ago...fortunately I didn't have to pay a lot of money for it, but I tell you, I nearly cried when I opened that box. I think I only paid about $30 for it...but frankly I'd have paid a LOT more than that if I'd had to, probably up to $1K or maybe even more, because I had deeply personal reasons for wanting it. Now of course, this is classiccmp, where ANY statement of ANY monetary value of more than a few dollars for ANY piece of old computer hardware is usually met with unbelievable amounts of vitriol and ridicule, that may draw some laughter or even doubts of my sanity...but that's the honest truth. We all have our reasons. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Cape Coral, FL

Dave McGuire wrote: True - but then why the interest in the ///? I doubt that many people used one (relatively) or lusted after one when they were new. Other than the Apple name there doesn't seem to be that much to attract people to them (mine's kind of interesting because of the clunky, low-capacity hard drives - but that's probably not typical of most ///'s that change hands) Like you, I kind of put it in the '20 buck' category. Which means I could see someone who *really* wanted one maybe handing over a bit more - like 40 or so. Then it's got a couple of Profiles and a bit of boxed software, so maybe add 20 on top of that. Still a far cry from the prices that they do seem to fetch, though. Perhaps I'm just underestimating the 'I simply have to have that!' factor which seems to play a part in a lot of transactions, though :-) cheers Jules

In article <3F65C7EE-1334-4A6F-A076-6DA95B106A5D at neurotica.com>, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> writes: That's definately at work in the Heathkit category. There are also certain things that get priced all crazy because of the level of interest (and not just auction fever). Things like the CompuColor terminal, the ASR-33 teletype (there's one in good shape going for $500+ right now on ebay), the Tektronix 40x0 storage scope terminals and the ADM-3A terminal are all bid up beyond what any other kind of serial terminal could command. Now the CompuColor and the Tektronix have some interesting capabilities, but the ADM-3A is really quite plain from a functional viewpoint. Its just that it was *the* period CRT for 70s micros and showed up in all the advertising and whatnot so there is quite a bit of interest in it. Its not just the case styling because the ADM-5 has the same case styling and it doesn't generate as much interest as the ADM-3A. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

Dave McGuire wrote: More than money, for my collection, I had to sacrifice most of the space in my house. Many people would think I'm crazy for collecting machines that take up hundreds of square feet each, but for me the motivation is to play with the machines I lusted after an *account* on. Peace... Sridhar

Chuck Guzis wrote: Guess what? I work in a mainframe-manufacturing facility, and I can get my hands on mainframes at work too. 8-) Peace... Sridhar

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006, Chuck Guzis wrote: (fictional)??? My father used to tell me virtually the exact same story about my great-great-great grandfather in the old country. (I don't know WHAT country, just that it was old) But, in THAT story, it was a statue. BTW, [to Eric Smith]: That is why my oldest TRS80 that you got from me had a Dymo label identifying it as "THE STATUE". -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com

When dealing with ebay one must keep in mind..... The ebay sale price is but a single bidding increment over the top price the next higher bidder is willing to spend. It is not what the buyer is willing to pay or values it at. The asking price or starting bid, represents the smallest value the seller is willing to part with it for, in the case there is only one bidder. Often if you get a deal on ebay it is because no one else watching cares about the item as much as you do at that moment in time. When the bidding goes to new highs from the viewpoint point of an observer, then it is due to the desire of two or more bidders looking to fill the same need that is not shared by the observer. Multiple collectors digging throught the same pile of junk will come up with differant treasures each for their own personal reasons. I would guess better than half of us here is over 50 and have children who will be stuck with the choice of the dumpster or ebay to deal with our collections when we are no longer able to store and protect them. Unless we start document our collections now, what are the chances of our children or for that matter our grandchildren understanding the value when the time comes? It is in the self interest of every collector to find the deals and freebees without much fanfare, collectors will often tell great stories about their best finds, long after the fact. Collectors build collections. Dealers break collections up and attempt to profit from their disposal, long sighted dealors are often also collecting investors and often hold out choice pieces for their own collections and future sale when the market is right. Dealers are always looking for collections to breakup and collectors and investors to chery pick their most recient lot. Investors take many forms, ask most collectors and they will either think collection will increase in value over time while others are not quite sure why they continue to save all this junk anymore. My question is how do we value our collections for insurance purposes, or god forbid as part of our estate for tax purposes ? If one was to build and host an online ComputerCollectables list/gallery, could a knowledge base be created to document collections that someday would be usable as a price guide. Or would such an attempt be doomed, due to lack of input from the real world ? One last thought ... On the subject of ebay, it supprises me that the ebay "make offer" option is not used more with computer collectables. I guess that few are willing to pay the higher listing fees by setting a higher starting bid, while at the same time revealing the fact that they might be willing to take a lower offer, if there is little or no interest. later .... Bob Bradlee

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 12:04:50 -0700, Richard wrote: Other than ebay, what other source of priceing information exsists ? Dealers will most likely report a differant price than a collector. Collector will brag to other collectors about getting something for $10 (plus $8 shipping/handeling) as a great deal for only $10 or about $20 depending on how the conversation is spinning. The seller recieved an $18 paypal payment for the sale, making the true cost to the collector $18, yet as far as the dealor is concerned it sold for $10 even though there may have only been $4 in costs covered by the $8 shipping fee. So this same item can be described as having a value between $10 and $18 with the most accurate value being somewhere around $14 amount the dealer got for it..... oops forgot to account for paypal and ebay fees, pick a number between $8something to $20. And how many dealers are going to publish the true taxable amount of the sale :) Concidering all price reporting is subjective I think a blog or wiki format like might work best. The work will be in finding people to seed it, concidering the lack of chatter and comments in the IBMcollectables gallery I would have to be heavily automates with a voteing system for determining price ranges ..... now that is a thought.... till later Bob

can anyone foresee old puters going on the block at posh auction houses like Christie's or Southebie's? It happened with comic books maybe 15 years ago. There are a few dozen of those that are worth mega bucks though. With puters, I'd have to say (at least at this present time), it's merely a handful. I personally don't think puters by themselves will ever gain that sort of recognition, but perhaps a category, like old elec- tronic gear, could one day possibly. --- Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote: ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sponsored Link Compare mortgage rates for today. Get up to 5 free quotes. Www2.nextag.com

On Nov 16, 2006, at 4:28 PM, Chris M wrote: I assume you're talking about "computers". I have no doubt that we'll see this before too long. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Cape Coral, FL

No one ever foresees items escalating in price the way they do, but I can't imagine that many units go for astronomical prices. Most were made in such large quantities. And old computers are not subject to widespread appeal as fine art, baseball cards, or comic books. Still, a few will continue to go up presumably. The creapy thing is though...you buy a painting or whatever at auction, and barring any catastrophes, or theft, you get to enjoy it forever. But when yer mobo blows...that could be all she wrote :o. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $420k for $1,399/mo. Calculate new payment! www.LowerMyBills.com/lre

----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris M" <chrism3667 at yahoo.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 3:28 PM Subject: Re: Practical question on valuation of old systems CHRISTIE'S just had the "The Origins of Cyberspace" auction back on 23 February 2005. It had over 60 years of stuff that had been collected by one person. The catalog had 250+ pages in it and is a geat read. The business plan for CDC sold for over $47,000 and a tin tape holder from UNIVAC went for $2300+. Check out thier website or get one of the catalogs on ebay. John

In article <455AEABC.15773.49227A6 at cclist.sydex.com>, "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> writes: That seems to support my feeling that the price is driven more by desirability of collectors than rarity. On the other hand that means you can cheaply acquire rare items that are outside the collector spotlight. Weird early S-100 bus based machines come to mind. It seems that you can pick those up fairly cheaply compared to "brand name" systems like Cromemco or SWTPC. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

In article <m1GkUVF-000IysC at p850ug1>, ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) writes: Maybe it seems that way, but the original poster was speculating that rarity was the price driver. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

I think it does, but not as much as in some other collecting hobbies. It would appear that nostalgia pays a big part in it too. At least in the UK, Sinclkir ZX80s and MK14s sell for ridiculously high prices (considering that particularly the former sold in quite large quantities, and neither are interesting or well-designed machines), whereas some much rarer machines get much lower bids on E-bay (there was a Tiger there recently, it sold, IIRC, for about \pounds 30, and that is a pretty rare machine). -tony

Jay wrote... I read about that DIP switch on the UBI this afternoon! But the system was working and started to the Console prompt just a half hour before. I will flip the switches anyway, because I learned from Don that when they are "ON" it does not always mean that their resistance is real low! As I read through the 11/44 manual, I am updating my webpage too :) Well, my first thought was: "It was OK half an hour ago"... but then I remembered something. Maybe not such a dumb newbie, Jay! The last weeks I have been helping people that were looking for something. This morning I shipped an RL terminator, that I removed from the RL02 drive yesterday! I did that, because then I was certain it was a good one ... I plugged an other terminator on the RL02 drive; yes I did not forget that. But ... it could be a bad terminator. It's just resistors, but still...! I can't check that this evening. Have to get up to the attic, but everybody already went to bed. The RUN lamp lit on the 11/44 and the FAULT lamp on the RL02 may have no relation at all! Thanks, I wouldn't have thought of it! - Henk. This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.