28 Jan
2017
28 Jan
'17
6:51 a.m.
I am about to get our IBM1627 (rebranded Calcomp 565) going but the pens in
the case is quite dry. What is the best method to refurbish those? What is
the best solvent to get the old ink out? What ink to refill with?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-rp4vyPPYu1ZjVRbnlyczV4czQ
28 Jan
28 Jan
9:05 a.m.
On 01/28/2017 08:51 AM, Mattis Lind wrote:
I am about to get our IBM1627 (rebranded Calcomp 565)
going but the pens in
the case is quite dry. What is the best method to refurbish those? What is
the best solvent to get the old ink out? What ink to refill with?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-rp4vyPPYu1ZjVRbnlyczV4czQ
Well, if you can get them apart, then it is pretty easy.
generally, rubbing alcohol works pretty well.
If you can't get them apart, then you can dunk them in a
little vial, like a pill bottle from the pharmacy, with
alcohol in it. Then, if you have one available, set that in
an ultrasonic cleaner with water in the tank. This will
help work the solvent into the capillary channel in the
tip. It may take a long soak and repeated runs of the
ultrasonic cleaner to free it up enough to get the plunger
out of the tip.
If these are all metal pens, you can be a bit more
aggressive with solvents.
Jon
9:10 a.m.
On 01/28/2017 08:51 AM, Mattis Lind wrote:
I am about to get our IBM1627 (rebranded Calcomp 565)
going but the pens in
the case is quite dry. What is the best method to refurbish those? What is
the best solvent to get the old ink out? What ink to refill with?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-rp4vyPPYu1ZjVRbnlyczV4czQ
Oh, you use India Ink for black. You should be able to also
get colored ink. There used to be many sellers (Pelikan,
Rapidograph, Rotring, Kohinoor etc.) of these. In the US,
Blick art supply may be about the last place to carry such
things.
Jon
9:44 a.m.
On 1/28/2017 6:51 AM, Mattis Lind wrote:
I am about to get our IBM1627 (rebranded Calcomp 565)
going but the pens in
the case is quite dry. What is the best method to refurbish those? What is
the best solvent to get the old ink out? What ink to refill with?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-rp4vyPPYu1ZjVRbnlyczV4czQ
This may not be so easy to do. The original pens that came with my 565
were pressurized.
It might be possible to use a Fisher Space Pen cartridge. I believe they
made replacements for the Calcomp.
Bob
--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org
9:55 a.m.
I might have some of those...
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bob
Rosenbloom
Sent: 28 January 2017 17:44
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: How to refurbish plotter pens?
On 1/28/2017 6:51 AM, Mattis Lind wrote:
I am about to get our IBM1627 (rebranded Calcomp
565) going but the
pens in the case is quite dry. What is the best method to refurbish
those? What is the best solvent to get the old ink out? What ink to refill
with?
This may not be so easy to do. The original pens that came with my 565 were
pressurized.
It might be possible to use a Fisher Space Pen cartridge. I believe they made
replacements for the Calcomp.
Bob
--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org 
6 Apr
6 Apr
12:23 p.m.
New subject: Dec Stuff available in Sunnyvale CA
I?m moving and need to downsize a bit. I have 2 of the DEC short racks. One has a 11/34
and the other is a uVax 3600 with a RA82 on top.
I haven?t tried to power up the 34. The uVax works but the RA82 on top doesn?t. However I
have several RA90?s that work with it. I saw a version of
4.3 BSD Quasijarus booted and running on it when I picked it up.
Local pickup only. Preference given to some one that has a RL02 drive for trade. Otherwise
a good home. Worst case - money (to quote Salam ?I don?t want eBay prices but I?ll take
them).
Kirk
1:19 p.m.
New subject: Dec Stuff available in Sunnyvale CA
Kirk,
I'd love to get a 11/34. Sorry, don't have a RL02 lying around. And I'm
local (Los Gatos / Milpitas).
Marc Howard
On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Kirk Davis via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I?m moving and need to downsize a bit. I have 2 of the
DEC short racks.
One has a 11/34 and the other is a uVax 3600 with a RA82 on top.
I haven?t tried to power up the 34. The uVax works but the RA82 on top
doesn?t. However I have several RA90?s that work with it. I saw a version of
4.3 BSD Quasijarus booted and running on it when I picked it up.
Local pickup only. Preference given to some one that has a RL02 drive for
trade. Otherwise a good home. Worst case - money (to quote Salam ?I don?t
want eBay prices but I?ll take them).
Kirk
28 Jan
28 Jan
10 a.m.
Bob,
Thank you for bringing sanity before the thread sunk into how to make
fibre or wet ink drafting based pens work again.
Jon you were very very lucky to get that wooden box and its contents
!, There were basic kits and I don't know the original word, but
'super kits'. A super kit sold on eBay not too long ago. I have 90% of
the basic kit. BTW my 565 is also IBM branded. It came off a IBM 1130.
I've never tried using the Fisher pens, but they do show up from time
to time on the usual auction sites. And if someone does discover they
are the same or can be easily adapted you can sometimes find them in
independent owned stationary stores, the type of Ma+Pop store where
nothing gets thrown out, just moved to the basement.
I have the 565 on the list of things to build a more modern interface
for. And a good example is a Onion.io Omega2+, there should be more
then enough room to have a simple HPGL emulator.
-pete
On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 9:44 AM, Bob Rosenbloom <bobalan at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/28/2017 6:51 AM, Mattis Lind wrote:
I am about to get our IBM1627 (rebranded Calcomp 565) going but the pens
in
the case is quite dry. What is the best method to refurbish those? What is
the best solvent to get the old ink out? What ink to refill with?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-rp4vyPPYu1ZjVRbnlyczV4czQ
This may not be so easy to do. The original pens that came with my 565 were
pressurized.
It might be possible to use a Fisher Space Pen cartridge. I believe they
made replacements for the Calcomp.
Bob
--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org
20 Apr
20 Apr
10:37 a.m.
Hi,
I read that discussion.
Jon you were very very lucky to get that wooden box
and its contents
!, There were basic kits and I don't know the original word, but
'super kits'. A super kit sold on eBay not too long ago. I have 90% of
the basic kit. BTW my 565 is also IBM branded. It came off a IBM 1130.
I've never tried using the Fisher pens, but they do show up from time
to time on the usual auction sites. And if someone does discover they
are the same or can be easily adapted you can sometimes find them in
independent owned stationary stores, the type of Ma+Pop store where
nothing gets thrown out, just moved to the basement.
I don't know tooo much about the different kits. I have a "small" kit
containing colored Fisher pressurized cartridges (labelled CalComp)
which seem to work forever.
In your picture you have a normal ballpen. I tried to emulate that by
cutting down one. It's a mess and not very funny.
I know the following configs:
Outer shell (always same), narrow inlay, narrow top cap --> for the pen
you pictured,
Outer shell, wide inlay, wide top cap --> For the Fisher pen
Outer shell, some other inlay, ink top cap, some plastic ink pen stuff
--> The ink pen config
I should have all those. Don't know if more existed.
Not yet tried the ink variant.
I usually use the Fisher things with my 565/563 plotters (both plural).
I have the 565 on the list of things to build a more
modern interface
for. And a good example is a Onion.io Omega2+, there should be more
then enough room to have a simple HPGL emulator.
I did it already (more or less):
1. Made an interface for my Honeywell H316 using WireWrap and forgetting
about the circuit (no schematics). I wrote a FORTRAN IV linkable library
that can even draw Hershey fonts on the H316.
2. Used pdp8 Omnibus original interface and wrote a stripped HPGL
interpreter. Now the pdp8 can "play" PC prepared HPGL files to the
CalComp plotter
Main problem around CalComp plotters is the paper. It's rare as hell.
Anything else can be found easier. The plotters are not considered
valuable (yet?).
For the 565, you can simply cut sheets and wrap them around the drum. My
kit also contains some scotch tape for that (original and mentioned as a
use case for the plotter in the manual).
For the 563, the form factor of the drum is not ideal - if you want to
use the whole drum.
Kind regards
Philipp
22 Apr
22 Apr
6:21 a.m.
On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 07:37:43PM +0200, Philipp Hachtmann wrote:
I know the following configs:
Outer shell (always same), narrow inlay, narrow top cap --> for the
pen you pictured,
Outer shell, wide inlay, wide top cap --> For the Fisher pen
Outer shell, some other inlay, ink top cap, some plastic ink pen
stuff --> The ink pen config
I should have all those. Don't know if more existed.
Not yet tried the ink variant.
Felt tip was also available.
picture here http://ferretronix.com/1627/
23 Apr
23 Apr
7:01 p.m.
On 22.04.2017 15:21, David Gesswein via cctech wrote:
Felt tip was also available.
picture here http://ferretronix.com/1627/
Wow, great page! I think I also have the felt tip metal thing somewhere.
I have to find that plastic box with Calcomp stuff again....!
19 Jan
19 Jan
1:57 a.m.
It has been almost two years since I visited this topic. But just before
christmas i got around doing something about it.
I interfaced it to the PDP-11/05 using an XY11 board. It seems to be very
little information on the XY11 board saved. At least I didn't find
anything. But the board is a quite simple dual module so I made a schematic
of the circuit and then got the understanding how it should be connected to
the plotter and how it should be programmed. Created a quick program for
the PDP-11 and tested it. It worked just fine but then the problem was the
pens.
All my pens were obviously dry. Refurbish a pen seems to be impossible. The
type of ink used is quite thick and I couldn't figure out how to get it
into the ball point pens. Even though it was possible to clean them
reasonably well using an ultrasonic cleaner there was no way I could get
the ink in there.
The other option is to find compatible pens. I searched google for pen
refills with dimensions that would fit but couldn't find matching pens to
modify and use.
So I concluded that the best option is to make a new pen holder plunger
which could take standard ball point refill. The Pilot BRFV-10M seemed to
be very common refill and would probably work well if I had another pen
holder. I asked around and found a guy with a lathe that made one for me.
Unfortunately it wasn't working immediately. I hadn't thought of certain
mechanical properties of the mechanism.
Essentially it is two parts. The pen holder plunger itself and a small
plastic part to insert into the cut off ball point refill. This latter part
will reduce the exterior diameter of the pen from 4 mm to 3.2 mm so it will
work with the spring in the lid. It also has a small 1 mm hole in it to let
air through.
Then I had a problem that the pen stayed in the up position. Most likely
held by some kind of remaining magnetism that could withstand the force of
the spring. A couple of M3 washers was used to reduce the contact area
between the pen holder plunger and the top lid which made it work.
http://i.imgur.com/PRGUa9U.jpg
And in action:
https://i.makeagif.com/save/QCDG_W
controlled by a quick and dirty PDP-11 program :
https://github.com/MattisLind/pdp11-plot
Next is to draw some nice things on the plotter.
Den m?n 24 apr. 2017 kl 06:59 skrev Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org>:
On 22.04.2017 15:21, David Gesswein via cctech wrote:
Felt tip was also available.
picture here http://ferretronix.com/1627/
Wow, great page! I think I also have the felt tip metal thing somewhere.
I have to find that plastic box with Calcomp stuff again....!
5:52 a.m.
On 2019-01-19 04:57, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
So I concluded that the best option is to make a new
pen holder plunger
which could take standard ball point refill. The Pilot BRFV-10M seemed to
be very common refill and would probably work well if I had another pen
holder. I asked around and found a guy with a lathe that made one for me.
Unfortunately it wasn't working immediately. I hadn't thought of certain
mechanical properties of the mechanism.
I did something like that 20 years ago for my HP plotters. Back then, I
found some ball points, which had a pressurized cartridge, so you could
draw pretty quick lines ;-)
Yes, I did it with an aluminum holder, today, I would probably ask
somebody to 3d print some plastic piece, to reduce the weight of the
moving part
Then I had a problem that the pen stayed in the up
position. Most likely
held by some kind of remaining magnetism that could withstand the force of
the spring. A couple of M3 washers was used to reduce the contact area
between the pen holder plunger and the top lid which made it work.
http://i.imgur.com/PRGUa9U.jpg
You're not planing on getting this through TSA?
;-)
And in action:
https://i.makeagif.com/save/QCDG_W
Pretty COOL !!!
controlled by a quick and dirty PDP-11 program :
https://github.com/MattisLind/pdp11-plot
One day I have to set up gcc for my pdp11 ...
Cheers!
8:31 a.m.
On 01/19/2019 03:57 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
All my pens were obviously dry. Refurbish a pen seems to be impossible.
Well,
leaving them in alcohol for a few days seems to slowly
seep in and soften the dried ink.
Most have hair-thin wires that run down through the pen
"needle" and these will break if too much force is applied.
Once the ink softens enough to allow the weight to be pulled
out safely, then the pen can be cleaned more easily. An
ultrasonic cleaner helps a lot with this.
But, I have to admit, my success rate is no better than 50%
(but I don't have an ultrasonic cleaner.)
Jon
28 Jan
28 Jan
10:34 a.m.
On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 03:51:49PM +0100, Mattis Lind wrote:
I am about to get our IBM1627 (rebranded Calcomp 565)
going but the pens in
the case is quite dry. What is the best method to refurbish those? What is
the best solvent to get the old ink out? What ink to refill with?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-rp4vyPPYu1ZjVRbnlyczV4czQ
That looks like the unpressurized ballpoint. I never tried to refill mine.
Another option is making replacements. I found current ballpoint
refills and cut them down. I used a dremmel with cutoff disk. Watch for
splatters. I then stuck something in to remove 1/4" or so of the ink from
the end. Otherwise it will come out in the pen holder and make a mess.
The problem now is almost all refills use a larger diameter tip. I had to
look around some before I found the proper size. I did grind one larger
diameter one down by chucking it in a drill and grinding with the dremel.
22 Feb
22 Feb
11:27 p.m.
Suggestion: drop them in an ultrasonic cleaner with solvent...
________________________________
From: cctech <cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of David Gesswein <djg
at pdp8online.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 10:34 AM
To: cctech at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: How to refurbish plotter pens?
On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 03:51:49PM +0100, Mattis Lind wrote:
I am about to get our IBM1627 (rebranded Calcomp 565)
going but the pens in
the case is quite dry. What is the best method to refurbish those? What is
the best solvent to get the old ink out? What ink to refill with?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-rp4vyPPYu1ZjVRbnlyczV4czQ
That looks like the unpressurized ballpoint. I never tried to refill mine.
Another option is making replacements. I found current ballpoint
refills and cut them down. I used a dremmel with cutoff disk. Watch for
splatters. I then stuck something in to remove 1/4" or so of the ink from
the end. Otherwise it will come out in the pen holder and make a mess.
The problem now is almost all refills use a larger diameter tip. I had to
look around some before I found the proper size. I did grind one larger
diameter one down by chucking it in a drill and grinding with the dremel.
6 Apr
6 Apr
10:59 a.m.
A late follow up on this topic.
I got my IBM 1627 running. Actually it is not mine, it belong to my father
that got it used for his home built computer somewhere around 1977. It
became a project that never was finished... There are still some simple
drawings he did on how to interface it.
http://i.imgur.com/8JK8wwO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8YJA0Qb.jpg
First thing I recognized was that the Mallory FP type capacitors in this
one both measured below 1nF capacitance. A quite serious problem. It turned
out that when I pulled them apart the positive electrode was subject to
severe corrosion. It was simply cut off..
http://i.imgur.com/XUaQtPn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nMLoFbN.jpg
One of the stud mount 1N2547 rectifiers diodes was broken at off from its
studmount in the middle of the insulating ceramic material. Since this type
of rectifier was hard to find I replaced it with a modern part.
Then on I replaced other electrolytics that all measured marginal (after
all this machine is from 1967, 50 years old!). The two Mallory AC
capacitors which are the run capacitors for the paper feed system were
replaced as well. Not that they measure bad but I simply don't like oil
filled caps from the sixties. They might contain PCB oil. And I didn't find
a list that certified that Mallory RP-3301 is PCB free.
Then the PSU was fine and all voltages measured well.
On to the mechanics. The drum was working fine in both directions, but the
carriage was not moving in either direction. Checking the electronics
revealed that it tried to drive the stepper motor but nothing happened. It
was stuck.
The motor was removed and disassembled. There was a small gearbox on top of
the stepper motor and it turned out that the motor axis was completely
stuck.
http://i.imgur.com/O043J9J.jpg
By removing the last six screws it was possible to get the axis out by
knocking on the axis with a screwdriver handle. It turned out that there
was quite some rust in there. Cleaning, re-lubricating and new grease and
it worked quite well.
One note for others who repair these. Do not remove the big wheel that is
driven by the stepper motor and drives the carriage. It is not necessary
unless you plan to put some new grease in the gearbox. It is a small hell
to get the carriage cable back into position again..
After this the plotter moved nicely in all directions and then it was time
for serious testing with pens which bring us back to the topic of the
thread.
This plotter was supplied with non-pressurized pens. As far as I understand
there are pen holders for both varieties of pens as well as felt pens. Mine
are definitely non-pressurized.
http://i.imgur.com/ZquhQMT.jpg
As per Randys suggestion I put them into an ultrasonic cleaner and they
become much cleaner. Then onto filling them which turned out to be a
complex and a messy business..
From what I understand there are different types of
ink. The type of ink
that are used for reservoir pens or Harry Potter feathers which
is more
liquid and then a thicker ink which is used in ballpoint pens. The former
is sold in small bottles the latter is not sold except for in ballpoint
refills.
The next step is to try to extract ink from the ballpoint refill and use a
ink refill syringe to push it into one of the cleaned pens. We'll see how
that works out.
The other option is to find new pens with the same diameter which can be
cut into the correct length and tip dimensions. Maybe even plastic ones
will work if they are stiff enough.
In parallell I am working on the interfacing part. As far as the
description in the manual interfacing is quite simple. Either negative
going or positive going pulses, at least 10V amplitude and more the 4us
long with less than 10us rise time. Source impedance less than 500 ohms.
A ULN2004 or similar together with some simple AVR microcontroller will
probably do it.
/Mattis
2017-02-23 8:27 GMT+01:00 Randy Dawson <rdawson16 at hotmail.com>:
Suggestion: drop them in an ultrasonic cleaner with
solvent...
________________________________
From: cctech <cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of David Gesswein <
djg at pdp8online.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 10:34 AM
To: cctech at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: How to refurbish plotter pens?
On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 03:51:49PM +0100, Mattis Lind wrote:
I am about to get our IBM1627 (rebranded Calcomp
565) going but the pens
in
the case is quite dry. What is the best method to
refurbish those? What
is
the best solvent to get the old ink out? What ink
to refill with?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-rp4vyPPYu1ZjVRbnlyczV4czQ
That looks like the unpressurized ballpoint. I never tried to refill mine.
Another option is making replacements. I found current ballpoint
refills and cut them down. I used a dremmel with cutoff disk. Watch for
splatters. I then stuck something in to remove 1/4" or so of the ink from
the end. Otherwise it will come out in the pen holder and make a mess.
The problem now is almost all refills use a larger diameter tip. I had to
look around some before I found the proper size. I did grind one larger
diameter one down by chucking it in a drill and grinding with the dremel.
11:07 a.m.
On Apr 6, 2017, at 1:59 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
A late follow up on this topic.
I got my IBM 1627 running. ...
Nice work!
I remember a plotter (possibly a 1627 -- it was attached to a 360 model 44 in college)
that by default used ballpoint pens but had an adapter to use Rapidograph (india ink)
pens. Those are nice because they produce high quality plots and of course are readily
refillable.
paul
7 Apr
7 Apr
1:43 p.m.
New subject: How to refurbish plotter pens? (roller-ball pens)
tor 2017-04-06 klockan 19:59 +0200 skrev Mattis Lind via cctalk:
A late follow up on this topic.
I got my IBM 1627 running. Actually it is not mine, it belong to my father
that got it used for his home built computer somewhere around 1977. It
became a project that never was finished... There are still some simple
drawings he did on how to interface it.
http://i.imgur.com/8JK8wwO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8YJA0Qb.jpg
First thing I recognized was that the Mallory FP type capacitors in this
one both measured below 1nF capacitance. A quite serious problem. It turned
out that when I pulled them apart the positive electrode was subject to
severe corrosion. It was simply cut off..
http://i.imgur.com/XUaQtPn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nMLoFbN.jpg
One of the stud mount 1N2547 rectifiers diodes was broken at off from its
studmount in the middle of the insulating ceramic material. Since this type
of rectifier was hard to find I replaced it with a modern part.
Then on I replaced other electrolytics that all measured marginal (after
all this machine is from 1967, 50 years old!). The two Mallory AC
capacitors which are the run capacitors for the paper feed system were
replaced as well. Not that they measure bad but I simply don't like oil
filled caps from the sixties. They might contain PCB oil. And I didn't find
a list that certified that Mallory RP-3301 is PCB free.
Then the PSU was fine and all voltages measured well.
On to the mechanics. The drum was working fine in both directions, but the
carriage was not moving in either direction. Checking the electronics
revealed that it tried to drive the stepper motor but nothing happened. It
was stuck.
The motor was removed and disassembled. There was a small gearbox on top of
the stepper motor and it turned out that the motor axis was completely
stuck.
http://i.imgur.com/O043J9J.jpg
By removing the last six screws it was possible to get the axis out by
knocking on the axis with a screwdriver handle. It turned out that there
was quite some rust in there. Cleaning, re-lubricating and new grease and
it worked quite well.
One note for others who repair these. Do not remove the big wheel that is
driven by the stepper motor and drives the carriage. It is not necessary
unless you plan to put some new grease in the gearbox. It is a small hell
to get the carriage cable back into position again..
After this the plotter moved nicely in all directions and then it was time
for serious testing with pens which bring us back to the topic of the
thread.
This plotter was supplied with non-pressurized pens. As far as I understand
there are pen holders for both varieties of pens as well as felt pens. Mine
are definitely non-pressurized.
http://i.imgur.com/ZquhQMT.jpg
As per Randys suggestion I put them into an ultrasonic cleaner and they
become much cleaner. Then onto filling them which turned out to be a
complex and a messy business..
From what I understand there are different types of ink. The type of ink
that are used for reservoir pens or Harry Potter feathers which is more
liquid and then a thicker ink which is used in ballpoint pens. The former
is sold in small bottles the latter is not sold except for in ballpoint
refills.
The next step is to try to extract ink from the ballpoint refill and use a
ink refill syringe to push it into one of the cleaned pens. We'll see how
that works out.
Ballograf in M?lndal is nowadays the only roller-ball pen producer in
sweden (Scandinavia too?) Maybe they would be amenable to sending a
bottle of ink (they are world-famous for producings roller-ball pens
with
archive-longevity inks.)
The other option is to find new pens with the same
diameter which can be
cut into the correct length and tip dimensions. Maybe even plastic ones
will work if they are stiff enough.
In parallell I am working on the interfacing part. As far as the
description in the manual interfacing is quite simple. Either negative
going or positive going pulses, at least 10V amplitude and more the 4us
long with less than 10us rise time. Source impedance less than 500 ohms.
A ULN2004 or similar together with some simple AVR microcontroller will
probably do it.
/Mattis
1924
days inactive
2645
days old
18 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
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bobalan＠sbcglobal.net -
cramcram＠gmail.com -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
djg＠pdp8online.com -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
emu＠e-bbes.com -
hachti＠hachti.de -
kirkbdavis＠me.com -
mattislind＠gmail.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
pete＠petelancashire.com -
rdawson16＠hotmail.com -
stefan.skoglund＠agj.net