3 May
2018
3 May
'18
6:38 p.m.
I would like to have a couple more DEC Mice for some Vaxestations I
have, but they seem to be pretty rare.? At present I only have one mouse
and I move it from machine to machine.
The protocols for the DEC mice and the standard PS/2 mice don't seem to
be that much different.
Is it possible to use an arduino to translate? PS/2 mouse output and
then send it to the vaxstation so that will it mimic a classic DEC mouse?
3 May
3 May
7:06 p.m.
On Thu, May 3, 2018, 9:38 PM Douglas Taylor via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I would like to have a couple more DEC Mice for some
Vaxestations I
have, but they seem to be pretty rare. At present I only have one mouse
and I move it from machine to machine.
The protocols for the DEC mice and the standard PS/2 mice don't seem to
be that much different.
Is it possible to use an arduino to translate PS/2 mouse output and
then send it to the vaxstation so that will it mimic a classic DEC mouse?
The jack is different, that would be a factor too.
B
7:14 p.m.
how abut forgethe the adreno... chop connector off. rewire a ps2 mouse and .... just use
it?
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
On Thursday, May 3, 2018 Bill Degnan via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Thu, May 3, 2018, 9:38 PM Douglas Taylor via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I would like to have a couple more DEC Mice for some
Vaxestations I
have, but they seem to be pretty rare. At present I only have one mouse
and I move it from machine to machine.
The protocols for the DEC mice and the standard PS/2 mice don't seem to
be that much different.
Is it possible to use an arduino to translate PS/2 mouse output and
then send it to the vaxstation so that will it mimic a classic DEC mouse?
The jack is different, that would be a factor too.
B
4 May
4 May
5 a.m.
On 05/03/2018 10:14 PM, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote:
how abut forgethe the adreno... chop connector off.
rewire a ps2 mouse and .... just use it?
I really don't think it is that easy.? Knowing how IBM tried to control the
market I doubt there is anything beyond basic similarity in the protocol.
Is the DEC Mouse protocol actually documented anywhere?
bill
12:13 a.m.
The Linux Kernel has support for DEC VSXXX mouse (as well as LK keyboards), the opposite
of what you are interested in.
So the conversion from DEC protocol is well documented.
It would be fairly straightforward with a microcontroller to implement the reverse.
See: https://code.woboq.org/linux/linux/drivers/input/mouse/vsxxxaa.c.html
The major issue implementing support for DEC mice under Linux is the requirement for a
-12v power rail - clearly this isn't an issue with a modern day replacement (I suspect
it is a red-herring anyway for standard mice, just because-12v exists at the DEC connector
doesn't mean it is used, possibly it was for digitizers for example).
The DEC mouse protocol is described here:
http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/rechner/dec/manuals/decimages/104…,
section C6 onwards.
Regards, Mark.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Bill Degnan via cctalk
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 3:06 AM
To: Douglas Taylor <dj.taylor4 at comcast.net>; General Discussion: On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: DEC Mouse replacement
On Thu, May 3, 2018, 9:38 PM Douglas Taylor via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
I would like to have a couple more DEC Mice for some
Vaxestations I
have, but they seem to be pretty rare. At present I only have one
mouse and I move it from machine to machine.
The protocols for the DEC mice and the standard PS/2 mice don't seem
to be that much different.
Is it possible to use an arduino to translate PS/2 mouse output and
then send it to the vaxstation so that will it mimic a classic DEC mouse?
The jack is different, that would be a factor too.
B
7:40 a.m.
I had run into those bits on the web and also a ps2 driver for the
arduino on github.
The protocols are similar for the PS2 mouse and the DEC mouse, 3 bytes
encoded with movement data.
Generic PS/2 Mouse Packet Bits
BYTE??? 7??? 6??? 5??? 4??? 3??? 2??? 1??? 0
0??? yo??? xo??? ys??? xs??? ao??? bm??? br??? bl
1??? xm
2??? ym
Code??? Description
yo??? Y-Axis Overflow
xo??? X-Axis Overflow
ys??? Y-Axis Sign Bit (9-Bit Y-Axis Relative Offset)
xs??? X-Axis Sign Bit (9-Bit X-Axis Relative Offset)
ao??? Always One
bm??? Button Middle (Normally Off = 0)
br??? Button Right (Normally Off = 0)
bl??? Button Left (Normally Off = 0)
xm??? X-Axis Movement Value
ym??? Y-Axis Movement Value
DEC mouse bits? (4800 Baud RS232)
BYTE??? 7??? 6??? 5??? 4??? 3??? 2??? 1??? 0
0??? 1?? 0?? 0? sx? sy? l m r
1??? xm
2??? ym
Code??? Description
sy ?? Y-Axis Sign Bit
sx ?? X-Axis Sign Bit
ao??? Always One
l,m,r? Left, Middle, Right button
xm??? X-Axis Movement Value
ym??? Y-Axis Movement Value
This level of similarity made me think that a simple controller like the
arduino could easily handle this.
Doug
On 5/4/2018 3:13 AM, mark--- via cctalk wrote:
The Linux Kernel has support for DEC VSXXX mouse (as
well as LK keyboards), the opposite of what you are interested in.
So the conversion from DEC protocol is well documented.
It would be fairly straightforward with a microcontroller to implement the reverse.
See: https://code.woboq.org/linux/linux/drivers/input/mouse/vsxxxaa.c.html
The major issue implementing support for DEC mice under Linux is the requirement for a
-12v power rail - clearly this isn't an issue with a modern day replacement (I suspect
it is a red-herring anyway for standard mice, just because-12v exists at the DEC connector
doesn't mean it is used, possibly it was for digitizers for example).
The DEC mouse protocol is described here:
http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/rechner/dec/manuals/decimages/104…,
section C6 onwards.
Regards, Mark.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Bill Degnan via
cctalk
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 3:06 AM
To: Douglas Taylor <dj.taylor4 at comcast.net>; General Discussion: On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: DEC Mouse replacement
On Thu, May 3, 2018, 9:38 PM Douglas Taylor via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
I would like to have a couple more DEC Mice for
some Vaxestations I
have, but they seem to be pretty rare. At present I only have one
mouse and I move it from machine to machine.
The protocols for the DEC mice and the standard PS/2 mice don't seem
to be that much different.
Is it possible to use an arduino to translate PS/2 mouse output and
then send it to the vaxstation so that will it mimic a classic DEC mouse?
The jack is different, that would be a factor too.
B
22 Jun
22 Jun
11:12 a.m.
On Fri, 2018-05-04 08:13:05 +0100, mark--- via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
The Linux Kernel has support for DEC VSXXX mouse (as
well as LK keyboards), the opposite of what you are interested in.
So the conversion from DEC protocol is well documented.
It would be fairly straightforward with a microcontroller to implement the reverse.
See: https://code.woboq.org/linux/linux/drivers/input/mouse/vsxxxaa.c.html
I think that it should be quite straight-forward to use an Arduino to
mimic a VSXXX-AA mouse. Some time ago, somebody even contacted me with
exactly this in mind, and I remember he found public code already
available to implement exactly what you're looking for.
*searching*
https://bitbucket.org/tinyscsi/decmouse/src/fc73c57dce5926ac1ab9f0958ba82cf…
Maybe this'll (at least) help you implementing something with an
Arduino, or even solve your issue completely.
Reading the source, the PS/2 mouse is attached to two GPIO pins in
that sketch (#5 for data, #6 for clock), and the VAXstation will be
connected to Arduino's serial port. (Keep in mind that you'll want do
have a level shifter in between, some MAX232 variant.)
MfG, JBG
--
11:16 a.m.
On Fri, 2018-05-04 08:13:05 +0100, mark--- via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
The Linux Kernel has support for DEC VSXXX mouse (as
well as LK keyboards), the opposite of what you are interested in.
So the conversion from DEC protocol is well documented.
It would be fairly straightforward with a microcontroller to implement the reverse.
See: https://code.woboq.org/linux/linux/drivers/input/mouse/vsxxxaa.c.html
Adding another reply: I wouldn't recommend to use the driver source
code as a starting point, but rather fetch DEC's specs about the two
mice (VSXXX-AA and VSXXX-GA) and their tablet (VSXXX-AB), which are
all described in the "VCB02 Video Subsystem Technical Manual",
available here:
https://www.vt100.net/manx/details?pn=EK-104AA-TM-001;id=21;cp=1
MfG, JBG
--
4 May
4 May
4:58 a.m.
On 05/03/2018 10:06 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
On Thu, May 3, 2018, 9:38 PM Douglas Taylor via cctalk
<
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Yes, but if one has broken DEC mice that problem is solved.
bill
I would like to have a couple more DEC Mice for
some Vaxestations I
have, but they seem to be pretty rare. At present I only have one mouse
and I move it from machine to machine.
The protocols for the DEC mice and the standard PS/2 mice don't seem to
be that much different.
Is it possible to use an arduino to translate PS/2 mouse output and
then send it to the vaxstation so that will it mimic a classic DEC mouse?
The jack is different, that would be a factor too.
B
4:57 a.m.
On 05/03/2018 09:38 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote:
I would like to have a couple more DEC Mice for some
Vaxestations I
have, but they seem to be pretty rare.? At present I only have one
mouse and I move it from machine to machine.
The protocols for the DEC mice and the standard PS/2 mice don't seem
to be that much different.
Is it possible to use an arduino to translate? PS/2 mouse output and
then send it to the vaxstation so that will it mimic a classic DEC mouse?
Anything is possible. :-)? I have often wondered about using a modern PC
mouse on a VaxStation 3100 but never got around to trying anything. I
never thought about the Arduino route.? While it seems like overkill, I
would
bet it would work quite well.
bill
6:14 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon
via cctalk
Sent: 04 May 2018 12:57
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: DEC Mouse replacement
On 05/03/2018 09:38 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote:
I have seen lots of similar projects using PIC chips. The smaller chips may require
assembler coding, but you can get them in small enough form factors so that they can be
inserted in the cable near the plug, and covered in heatshrink..
Dave
G4UGM
I would like to have a couple more DEC Mice for
some Vaxestations I
have, but they seem to be pretty rare. At present I only have one
mouse and I move it from machine to machine.
The protocols for the DEC mice and the standard PS/2 mice don't seem
to be that much different.
Is it possible to use an arduino to translate PS/2 mouse output and
then send it to the vaxstation so that will it mimic a classic DEC mouse?
Anything is possible. :-) I have often wondered about using a modern PC
mouse on a VaxStation 3100 but never got around to trying anything. I never
thought about the Arduino route. While it seems like overkill, I would bet it
would work quite well.
bill
6:47 a.m.
On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 7:14 AM, Dave Wade via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Anything is possible. :-) I have often wondered about using a modern PC
mouse on a VaxStation 3100 but never got around to trying anything. I never
Back in the day, there were a lot of these sorts of things on the web.
I had (still have) a newton keyboard that I interfaced to my (a) dec
rainbow and (b) Sun 4 workstation. Of course, I did it with special
drivers, not hardware (since I did it just before PICs got cheap and easy).
There were many web site online that had PIC or other uC designs for this.
As well as all the other, non-standard crazy stuff that was in the
marketplace: Sun mice / keyboards, DEC gear, Amiga stuff, VT100 keyboards,
etc. It was quite the scene, in 1994-5 or so... Last few times I tried to
google it, none of the web sites that came up were still around. I can't
even find my newton keyboard to x11 program...
Oh, wait, I did find this:
http://www.uinet.or.jp/~osamu-o/NewtonKeyboard/index.html which shows how
to interface it to an AT...
Warner
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Bill
Gunshannon
via cctalk
Sent: 04 May 2018 12:57
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: DEC Mouse replacement
On 05/03/2018 09:38 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote:
> I would like to have a couple more DEC Mice for some Vaxestations I
> have, but they seem to be pretty rare. At present I only have one
> mouse and I move it from machine to machine.
>
> The protocols for the DEC mice and the standard PS/2 mice don't seem
> to be that much different.
>
> Is it possible to use an arduino to translate PS/2 mouse output and
> then send it to the vaxstation so that will it mimic a classic DEC
mouse?
thought about the Arduino route. While it seems
like overkill, I would
bet it
would work quite well.
I have seen lots of similar projects using PIC chips. The smaller chips
may require assembler coding, but you can get them in small enough form
factors so that they can be inserted in the cable near the plug, and
covered in heatshrink..
2326
days inactive
2375
days old
11 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
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bill.gunshannon＠hotmail.com -
billdegnan＠gmail.com -
couryhouse＠aol.com -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
dj.taylor4＠comcast.net -
imp＠bsdimp.com -
jbglaw＠lug-owl.de -
mark＠wickensonline.co.uk