12 Dec
2006
12 Dec
'06
12:24 a.m.
We have the chips produced from earlier eras, but what attempts have
been made to preserve the design tools from those earlier eras?
Schematic Capture
PCB Layout
Netlist Tools
IC transistor-level design
IC gate-level design
etc.
I know several of you out there have microprocessor development
environments from Intel and TI, IIRC. Ditto for things like PROM
programmers.
What about the design software? I imagine the first generation of EDA
software was created in-house by pioneers of VLSI design. But what
about when the tools started to become commodities? What about early
releases of software from a company like Mentor Graphics?
--
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<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
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12 Dec
12 Dec
11:10 a.m.
On Dec 12, 2006, at 12:24 AM, Richard wrote:
We have the chips produced from earlier eras, but what
attempts have
been made to preserve the design tools from those earlier eras?
Schematic Capture
PCB Layout
Netlist Tools
IC transistor-level design
IC gate-level design
etc.
I know several of you out there have microprocessor development
environments from Intel and TI, IIRC. Ditto for things like PROM
programmers.
What about the design software? I imagine the first generation of EDA
software was created in-house by pioneers of VLSI design. But what
about when the tools started to become commodities? What about early
releases of software from a company like Mentor Graphics?
I've seen two systems (not pure software, but integrated systems)
that really blew me away years ago. My memories of both are very
fuzzy. One was an ECAD workstation called Daisy; it was a schematic
capture system and may have done other things as well. It was
gorgeous but I didn't see much of its capabilities. I saw this
around 1985 or thereabouts.
The other was a PCB layout system made by Calay (or possibly the
model was called Calay, not sure)...It was built into a desk; it had
a small Qbus PDP-11 (11/23 I believe) built into it, which seemed to
be running RT-11 on a text terminal, while the layout was being
developed on a large bitmapped color display. The PCB routing
capability was built around some sort of specialized processor which
the PDP-11 passed data to and from. I gather it was some sort of
hardware-assisted autorouting system. I worked in the facility in
which this machine lived...I wire-wrapped the prototypes of the PCBs
that were designed on that machine, so I didn't get to work with it
directly. This was around mid-1986.
It is a pipe dream, but I have an eBay saved search for "calay"
just in case. :)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Cape Coral, FL
11:27 a.m.
On Dec 12, 2006, at 12:24 AM, Richard wrote:
We have the chips produced from earlier eras, but what attempts have
been made to preserve the design tools from those earlier eras?
I've still got a copy of the first Orcad SDT--ran on a PC-XT (I think
it coiuld run on floppies) using CGA or Hercules. I've also got a
copy somewhere of an early PCB layout program that ran on an Atari
ST.
Did anyone salvage any of the very expensive hardware simulators of
the mid 80's? I'm having trouble thinking of the brand names...
Cheers,
Chuck
11:48 a.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
I've still got a copy of the first Orcad SDT--ran
on a PC-XT (I think
it coiuld run on floppies) using CGA or Hercules.
From what I can gather, you needed two floppy drives - one for the OrCAD
program disc, and another for your 'work' disc.
I've been looking for a copy of SDT/386 (and the manuals) for a while - my
eBay stored search hasn't fired in months :(
--
Phil. | (\_/) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny
classiccmp at philpem.me.uk | (='.'=) into your signature to help him gain
http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | (")_(") world domination.
12:05 p.m.
On 12 Dec 2006 at 16:48, Philip Pemberton wrote:
Yes--and the printer options were rather limited. I remember having
to print to disk and then use my own program to translate Epson
graphics to the printer I had at the time. The library wasn't the
greatest, but it was pretty simple to add parts to it.
All in all, for the limited hardware it had, it wasn't a bad system.
I used it quite a bit, even if it meant taping together sheets of
tractor-feed printer paper. It was still easier than drawing by hand-
-and you got some very rudimentary design checking and a BOM.
One of the first programs for which I used a mouse.
Cheers,
Chuck
I've still
got a copy of the first Orcad SDT--ran on a PC-XT (I think
it coiuld run on floppies) using CGA or Hercules.
From what I can gather, you needed two floppy drives - one for the OrCAD
program disc, and another for your 'work' disc. 
13 Dec
13 Dec
5:01 p.m.
On 12/13/06, Philip Pemberton <classiccmp at philpem.me.uk> wrote:
Chuck Guzis wrote:
I'm not sure I have the oldest version, but I do have a DOS-only
version of OrCAD schematic capture (not the layout tool) that we used
to use in the late 1980s. At the time, it was on a genuine PC-AT with
a 40MB hard disk, so I'm not sure about floppy requirements.
We used it with PADS-PCB for layout. I have lots of experience with
schematic capture and OrCAD, but almost no experience with PADS-PCB
and layout. I tried to do some simple stuff a while back, but got
stymied trying to export the schematic with enough content for PADS to
be happy importing it. For modern stuff, though, I've switched to
EagleCAD and have been quite happy with that.
I always like the DOS OrCAD interface.
-ethan
I've still got a copy of the first Orcad
SDT--ran on a PC-XT (I think
it coiuld run on floppies) using CGA or Hercules.
From what I can gather, you needed two floppy drives - one for the OrCAD
program disc, and another for your 'work' disc. 
12 Dec
12 Dec
12:42 p.m.
I think I still may have a copy of the Great Softwestern pcb layout addon for AutoCAD.
The first board I ever did on a computer was on AutoCAD Ver 1.x
I plotted it in ink at 2x to mylar and the pcb house worked from them.
Just my .02
Bob
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 22:24:32 -0700, Richard wrote:
We have the chips produced from earlier eras, but what
attempts have
been made to preserve the design tools from those earlier eras?
Schematic Capture
PCB Layout
Netlist Tools
IC transistor-level design
IC gate-level design
etc.
I know several of you out there have microprocessor
development
environments from Intel and TI, IIRC. Ditto for things like PROM
programmers.
What about the design software? I imagine the first
generation of EDA
software was created in-house by pioneers of VLSI design. But what
about when the tools started to become commodities? What about early
releases of software from a company like Mentor Graphics?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood!
<http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
2 p.m.
I've also got a copy of Schema SDT for the PC-XT/MS-DOS. It was
easier to use than OrCAD, IIRC.
Cheers,
Chuck
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