On 8 Nov 2007 at 13:53, Jim Leonard wrote: Just trying to remember the Microsoft product being advertised. Would it have been NT 4.0? Cheers, Chuck

Angel Martin Alganza wrote: That would be difficult, because it's not too great itself (it's MPEG-1 352x288 25fps PAL) But you're lucky I'm a digital video snob; the original unmolested file can be found here: ftp://ftp.oldskool.org/pub/misc/OS2WARUK.MPG -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/

Gordon JC Pearce wrote: The gota with YouTube is that it is windows/IE only to my knowlage.That leaves out a lot of people here. Ben.

Richard wrote: Off hand I don't see a Mozilla plug in for that.

woodelf wrote: I use flash on Mozilla on NetBSD every day. Peace... Sridhar

On 09/11/2007 19:09, woodelf wrote: My "about:plugins" says: Shockwave Flash File name: C:\WINDOWS\system32\Macromed\Flash\NPSWF32.dll Shockwave Flash 9.0 r47 I downloaded it from Adobe's website, which was, incidentally, the first hit Google found for "flash plugin". This machine is running Windows, but there are versions for Linux, Solaris, and other OSs as well. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

In article <4734ED63.5090205 at jetnet.ab.ca>, woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> writes: Why would flash say anything about youtube? Youtube is just one of the millions of web sites that use flash. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

Andrew Burton wrote: The PC had a good video output with a TARGA frame grabber card, and that was the late 1980's. That was 512 pixels across NTSC scan rates.

Andrew Burton wrote: Like a VideoCD? (ducking) 25fps or faster is a tall order -- CDI might be the first console-thingy to have it on a standardized basis, but a year earlier in 1991, I was watching quarter-screen streaming 30fps video in the form of http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/sherlock-holmes-consulting-detective That's the earliest 24+ fps example I can think of. Video for Windows came out in 1992 and even the CDROM distribution of it only had 15fps video clips. -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/

Ok, I'll trump your VCD with... Laserdisc That must have been played with some sort of computer, right? Not had a laserdisc or laserdisc player myself, but allegedly laserdiscs were still being made up until around 2000 give or take a year or so. Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk Jim Leonard <trixter at oldskool.org> wrote: Andrew Burton wrote: Like a VideoCD? (ducking)

Is this thread somewhat vaguely related to classic computing?

Someone wrote.... That's a stretch... I'm not buying it :) Jay

Chuck Guzis wrote: Yes - see my other post. Hopefully my system will be on the US side of the pond in a few months, US Customs permitting... Thankfully I've got all of the important bits of the service manual for the player too - whilst the players used were extremely innovative, and well designed electronically, they were really let down by poor build quality. Dry joints aplenty... (I've fixed quite a few over the years!) Disc capacity was 324MB of digital data and 54,000 video frames, not too bad for the time. The discs themselves are pretty robust - better than early CDs - although I have seen a few where they've started to deteriorate at the edges. Thankfully a couple of separate projects have the data all archived (but I don't think anyone's tackled the other LVROM titles, unfortunately) The whole project was pretty amazing. I'm not sure if anything with that level of school participation, and pushing the technology of the day that hard, has ever been done since - at least not in the UK. Earliest reference to the project I seem to have is an announcement by Philips middle of 1986. cheers Jules

On 10/11/2007 22:14, Chuck Guzis wrote: They were commonly used for computer interactive video especially for CAI systems. A company I worked for in the mid-to-late 80s installed hundreds of PC-based systems with Pioneer LV players, one at every main Jaguar dealership, and I was one of the repair staff for the Pioneer kit. I have a set of the LV-ROMs. I had a Domesday system many years ago, but with my usual lack of foresight, I sold it around 1989. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

Pete Turnbull wrote: It's surprising how popular interactive video was at one stage. Back in the day, Microvitec even offered a disc cutting service, although they could only do single-sided discs. They could offer 24-hour turnaround, and on the 7-day service the cost was 395 pounds for acrylic discs and 595 for glass. I don't think they could handle binary data (i.e. LVROMs) as such though. Which raises the question of what the definition of LVROM is - most interactive video termed as LVROM that I've come across is pure video data under computer control, i.e. there's no binary program data stored on the discs too (as there is with Domesday, and I believe with a few arcade systems) Look after 'em... like I said, I've seen a few where they're starting to decay. (I don't think anything can be done to halt the process, but I can see a time when there are more working Domesday setups around than there are working sets of the media) Thankfully I've not heard of problems with the lasers in the Philips LVROM players yet (earlier Philips non-LVROM players seem prone to laser-death) cheers Jules

Chuck wrote..... Granted! Pete & Andrew and yourself do make a case {which I still don't totally buy, but I can see the point partially}. However, lets please keep it on a tight reign and not delve too deeply into video stuff. Knowing this crowd, if I give carte blanche to LVrom discussion, then we'll get into a long discussion of video encoding. Then camera resolution will come up. Then pretty soon people will be arguing that we can talk about cars because cameras can take pictures of cars. Next will be formulation of asphalt. Not gonna happen. So sure, put LVrom back on topic... but lets not wander very far with it. Chuck - by the way - thanks for both asking and making a cogent case. Gordon wrote.... Yes, I counted to 10 before responding to this, and it was a rather painful 10 seconds. The more watered-down/redacted version follows: Last I checked, I was not moaning - I was moderating; and I will continue to do so to the best of my abilities and using my best judgement to keep things on-topic. I think that a very large percentage of the list agrees with most of my moderation choices. No one will be 100% in agreement with them so I won't try (a moderator who attempts to please 100% of the people will please none). In my own opinion and in the opinions many have expressed to me - I am guilty of not "moaning" nearly enough. So Gordon, my apologies in advance, but you're going to see a definite increase in my "moaning" if people continue to get off-topic. I have two tools to use in that effort - public and/or private reminders to steer things back, and suspensions of listmembers from the list. I'd vastly prefer to use the former. ...[snip]... >We've had a lengthy spiel about what kind of ISA card you can use to bring a PC-XT up to 640k, with barely a murmur about how on- or off-topic it might be. I suspect there was no murmer about it because it's pretty clearly on-topic. It's not my own personal cup of tea, but that doesn't matter in my treatment of it. Best regards, Jay West

Jay West wrote: Jay, I laughed when I read that, but your probably right. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA

Chad Fernandez wrote: would some of you reply to me off list about this. I would ask AEK, but figure that laserdisk contents aren't software contents, and not what he has time to dive into anyway. Maybe Roy's list if he'd host a rathole. (not to include asphalt formuation). I have a few weird ones that I'd like to preserve, including some for some game consoles, but with their encoding have no idea how to preserve, and also because they are giving my players fits, may be damaged beyond repair already. Jim

On 10 Nov 2007 at 21:49, Jay West wrote: Fair enough. We all have our own peculiar interests and that's what keeps the list fun and interesting. Otherwise talking endlessly about ones DEC equipment might get a bit monotonous. ;) I have a strong interest in media and less of one in real iron. Ultimately, I think that historians will find our media (if it survives) more interesting than our machines. Thanks, Chuck

Actually it's been good to see topics other than the usual serving of PDP related stuff that is the usual fare of the list. For me "classic" computers are the ones created between 1977 & 1990ish & yes, this includes the early IBM PC's.Until the PET thread started I was getting seriously bored with the list, now it's interesting again. Lance // http://www.commodore128.org //

On 11 Nov 2007 at 9:23, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: And Sun/SGI systems are? No one makes LIM/EMS boards now, nor has in the last 10 years. Few even know what the "LIM" even stands for. My need for one was to equip a system to extract the data for some tapes whose drivers don't work on anything later than a 286. I apologize for asking. Pray tell, how is an SGI Onyx any more "vintage" or "classic" than an Intel Aboveboard? Let's hear all of the owners of Burrroughs B5000s, IBM 7090s, CDC 1604s, NCR Century 100s, RCA Spectra 70s, Univac 1105s and other "real" classics come forward... (the sound of crickets chirping) Cheers, Chuck Cheers, Chuck

Jim wrote... Someone take a picture. Jim and I are in complete agreement on something ;) Yes, it's a big hobby and I firmly believe that classiccmp can serve the needs of all the (occasionally cliquey) members. Jay

On 11/9/07, Jay West <jwest at classiccmp.org> wrote: OK I'll bring it back around.....during VCF Midwest I saw a DEC-branded Laserdisc unit at Pat's computer wonderland. Anyone know what it was used for? Was it just some sort of computer-based training software than run under VMS, or something more interesting? Never seen one before or since.

On Fri, 2007-11-09 at 21:07 -0600, Jay West wrote: Do you know what? I think I've finally reached my "It's off-topic" saturation point. Not the amount of off-topic content, but the amount of moaning about things being off-topic. I'm pretty much infinitely more interested in Laserdisc players than I am on bloody memory cards for PCs. We've had a lengthy spiel about what kind of ISA card you can use to bring a PC-XT up to 640k, with barely a murmur about how on- or off-topic it might be. Now we get something that's vaguely interesting and not mass-market commodity PC bits, and it's somehow off-topic? Gordon.

Tony Duell wrote: We all do, which is why we're here. I too am weary of wondering if my <insert any 1980's technology discussion> reply is acceptable or not... -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/

Gordon wrote... To which Tony replied.... and And every one of those things you mention is on-topic, always has been, and was never questioned. So what's the beef. I try to do so by building consensus and almost always going with what the majority wants. However, it occasionally seems that a very vocal minority isn't happy unless everything is 100% the way they want. Screw that, I'm tired of trying to please the last bit under the tail of the bell curve. And for the record, I'm not a big fan of PC/XT anything being on topic. However, I don't always go with what *I* think is "right". It's called trying to get along. Perhaps the vocal minority should attempt the same. Given that all the above stuff you listed is on-topic I guess I don't see the problem. Some of the stuff we have in common (like cars, cameras, etc) isn't on-topic. There's other lists for that. Jay

ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: And I'm also interested in peripheral systems... but not so much for the intracicies of the hardware (although I do find that interesting). Instead, I try to emphasize the peripherals because: 1. Too many CPU's get rescued sans peripherals. Then someone gets to it and asks "well, now what?". Emphasize the importance of the peripherals to actually booting an OS or running an interesting application and maybe the result will be not peripheral-less CPU's but complete systems. 2. Peripherals are important for media recovery of OS's, applications, and if we're really lucky, sources. 3. With media recovery and CPU and access to a peripheral, all the basic prerequisites of writing an emulator are available. Many (most?) peripherals are not well documented enough to allow emulation of the peripheral without at least some experimentation. Tim.

Sounds familiar.. My garage is full of old micros, old cameras, old Bang & Olufsen and an old Bristol car.. roger

On 10/11/2007 03:14, Ethan Dicks wrote: The Philips ones used in Acorn's Domesday system (1986) are rather like that. They have an extra SCSI interface, so the computer can control the player through that, and the player's video is fed to a genlock card in the computer so the two video stream can be mixed under computer control, but the laser video isn't digitised. However, some of the audio tracks actually hold data that the computer *can* read (captions, indexing, programs, etc). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

On 10/11/2007 02:27, Jim Leonard wrote: The earliest I can think of is Acorn's Replay software, which could do quarter-screen 25fps in 1988 or 1989 on an Acorn Archimedes machine. A little before that, the same machines were playing short animated ray-traced scenes at 25fps, sometimes full-frame -- but that's not quite the same thing as video. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

Dave McGuire wrote: I use it on NetBSD myself. Peace... Sridhar

woodelf wrote: I was watching it with Solaris 10 x86 yesterday (Developer Express), and Linux, and Mac OSX... But anyway, I did provide an MPEG-1 so surely any Pentium 133 or better can play it back... -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/