14 May
2009
14 May
'09
1:39 p.m.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Robert Jarratt
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:
Looks like it is for a VAXstation 2000. Knowing that,
does anyone know if
such a thing could fit (and work) in one of the two machines I mention
above?
I have a couple of uVAX 2000s (same box, move a jumper and don't
attach a tube). The unexpanded box has connectors on the motherboard
and comes with cables to attach one drive. I've seen them usually
with RD53s and RD54s, but RD31s and RD32s should work fine, or IIRC,
any drive you can manage to format on an RQDX3 using the Field Service
formatter (not the Customer Runnable Diagnostics formatter). You can
format known models of drive (RD31, RD32, RD53, RD54, and perhaps
others) in the uVAX2000 box, too, but I don't think there's a way to
format non-DEC-geometry drives there.
So... unexpanded, you get a 20-pin and a 34-pin cable from the
mainboard to the drive. What this expansion *might* be is a
replacement cable that extends past the drive and goes out an access
plate on the bottom of the box, then to a connector on a "skirt" (that
should also be included) to give you a (ISTR) DD50P that you can cable
to an external drive. There may also be a small circuit board in the
skirt for the drive, it's been years since I've opened mine.
There's also room in the skirt for external connector for the 8-port
serial expander (DHT32?). I have one of those too, but haven't gotten
the external cabling to use it.
So... there _is_ a kit for adding an external disk connector to a
MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000, but I have no idea if this part number is
what it is. The *controller* is built into every uV/VS2000, but not
the cabling for an external drive.
-ethan
14 May
14 May
3:13 p.m.
Ethan Dicks wrote:
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Robert Jarratt
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:
The VS2000 can also format ANY MFM disk with to RQDX3 format for use
with with that board. it has a diagnostic monitor page that does this.
Anyone working with DEC hardware
will find that feature alone useful.
the Box was expanable to a second similar sized on to add either TK50
using the sasi (sorta scsi) bus or another MFM drive such as rd50, 51,
52, 53, 54 31 and 32 plus RX33 floppy(teac fd55GFR). It is also
possible to mount a rx33 and a rd32 in the same box.
Allison
Looks like it is for a VAXstation 2000. Knowing
that, does anyone know if
such a thing could fit (and work) in one of the two machines I mention
above?
I have a couple of uVAX 2000s (same box, move a jumper and don't
attach a tube). The unexpanded box has connectors on the motherboard
and comes with cables to attach one drive. I've seen them usually
with RD53s and RD54s, but RD31s and RD32s should work fine, or IIRC,
any drive you can manage to format on an RQDX3 using the Field Service
formatter (not the Customer Runnable Diagnostics formatter). You can
format known models of drive (RD31, RD32, RD53, RD54, and perhaps
others) in the uVAX2000 box, too, but I don't think there's a way to
format non-DEC-geometry drives there.
So... unexpanded, you get a 20-pin and a 34-pin cable from the
mainboard to the drive. What this expansion *might* be is a
replacement cable that extends past the drive and goes out an access
plate on the bottom of the box, then to a connector on a "skirt" (that
should also be included) to give you a (ISTR) DD50P that you can cable
to an external drive. There may also be a small circuit board in the
skirt for the drive, it's been years since I've opened mine.
There's also room in the skirt for external connector for the 8-port
serial expander (DHT32?). I have one of those too, but haven't gotten
the external cabling to use it.
So... there _is_ a kit for adding an external disk connector to a
MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000, but I have no idea if this part number is
what it is. The *controller* is built into every uV/VS2000, but not
the cabling for an external drive.
-ethan
4:34 p.m.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Allison <ajp166 at verizon.net> wrote:
The VS2000 can also format ANY MFM disk with to RQDX3
format for use with
with that board. ?it has a diagnostic monitor page that does this. ?Anyone
working with DEC hardware will find that feature alone useful.
I thought it could only format "known" disk types, not arbitrary disks
(a firmware limitation in the formatter application, not a hardware
limitation). I know a QBus uVAX w/RQDX3 can format arbitrary disks
with the right formatter (FS, not CRD).
Hmm... my little pile of uVAX2Ks may have become more interesting to
me - formerly, I've been booting up a uVAXII off of TK50 to format
drives, and that takes a long while.
the Box was expanable to a second similar sized on to
add either TK50 using
the sasi (sorta scsi) bus...
Is it _really_ SASI? ISTR there's a 5380 chip in there, but I could
be thinking of the TK50Z-FA board. I did once download and burn a set
of EPROMs to try to boot a (slow) SCSI disk in the MV2000, but I don't
think I ever got as far as loading a disk. I have a 200MB 3.5"
Embedded SCSI drive ready to drop into a machine if I ever get a
chance to pick that project back up. I know the interface won't be
fast, but it would allow me to use more modern disks, and that's
really, really handy, no matter how slow.
or another MFM drive such as rd50, 51, 52, 53, 54
31 and 32 plus RX33 floppy(teac fd55GFR).
?It is also possible to mount a
rx33 and a rd32 in the same box.
I haven't done it myself, but I'm aware that it's possible.
-ethan
5:19 p.m.
Ethan Dicks wrote:
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Allison <ajp166 at
verizon.net> wrote:
I think the uVax 2000 can format any MFM, if you know how to fiddle with
the format parameters. I've formatted my entire MFM collection using
it: Maxtor 2190, Seagate ST-251 & ST-225, CDC Wren and Wren II, and an
IMI 5012H. Granted, some of these are the same as the RD variants.
jS
The VS2000 can also format ANY MFM disk with to
RQDX3 format for use with
with that board. it has a diagnostic monitor page that does this. Anyone
working with DEC hardware will find that feature alone useful.
I thought it could only format "known" disk types, not arbitrary disks
(a firmware limitation in the formatter application, not a hardware
limitation). I know a QBus uVAX w/RQDX3 can format arbitrary disks
with the right formatter (FS, not CRD).
15 May
15 May
8:35 p.m.
New subject: WTB - VAX 4000 tape sled / bracket
I recently aquired a couple of VAX 4000-705a's from a recycler and
am looking for:
TK70 or TK85 Tape bracketing, sleds and one faceplate
I have several drive rail sets for a BA213 to trade or would be willing to
buy.
-Dan Snyder
view my stuff at http://picasaweb.google.com/DanielDSnyder
16 May
16 May
8:38 a.m.
On May 14, 2009, at 4:34 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
There is indeed a 5380 in the MV/VS2000.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
the Box was
expanable to a second similar sized on to add either
TK50 using
the sasi (sorta scsi) bus...
Is it _really_ SASI? ISTR there's a 5380 chip in there, but I could
be thinking of the TK50Z-FA board. I did once download and burn a set
of EPROMs to try to boot a (slow) SCSI disk in the MV2000, but I don't
think I ever got as far as loading a disk. I have a 200MB 3.5"
Embedded SCSI drive ready to drop into a machine if I ever get a
chance to pick that project back up. I know the interface won't be
fast, but it would allow me to use more modern disks, and that's
really, really handy, no matter how slow.
8:37 a.m.
On May 14, 2009, at 3:13 PM, Allison wrote:
The VS2000 can also format ANY MFM disk with to RQDX3
format for
use with with that board. it has a diagnostic monitor page that
does this. Anyone working with DEC hardware
will find that feature alone useful.
Yes, but the VS2000 and RQDX3, if memory serves, use different
interleave factors. I'm pretty sure the VS2000 formats at 2:1 (or is
it 3:1?) while the RQDX3 is capable of handling 1:1. This will
reduce data transfer rates on the RQDX3. (which needs all the help it
can get)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
10:46 a.m.
On 16/05/2009 13:37, Dave McGuire wrote:
Yes, but the VS2000 and RQDX3, if memory serves, use
different
interleave factors. I'm pretty sure the VS2000 formats at 2:1 (or is it
3:1?) while the RQDX3 is capable of handling 1:1. This will reduce data
transfer rates on the RQDX3. (which needs all the help it can get)
RQDX1 and RQDX2 certainly use 3:1, I don't know about VS2000 but it
might be the same. RQDX3 does indeed use 1:1.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
11:22 a.m.
On May 16, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Pete Turnbull wrote:
Yup. I believe the VS2000 uses 2:1, bit it might be 3:1. I'm
fairly certain that it's not 1:1.
That said, though, I've never actually benchmarked a RQDX3-
formatted drive against a VS2000-formatted drive plugged into an
RQDX3. I'm assuming the bottleneck will be the rotational latency
(and thus would be affected by interleaving) but there may be a
tighter bottleneck elsewhere.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Yes, but the
VS2000 and RQDX3, if memory serves, use different
interleave factors. I'm pretty sure the VS2000 formats at 2:1 (or
is it 3:1?) while the RQDX3 is capable of handling 1:1. This will
reduce data transfer rates on the RQDX3. (which needs all the help
it can get)
RQDX1 and RQDX2 certainly use 3:1, I don't know about VS2000 but it
might be the same. RQDX3 does indeed use 1:1.
11:39 a.m.
Here's my personal notes on MFM formatting with the VS2000. Most was
gleaned off the Internet; some I revised or improved myself. Can't
remember the sources to give credit, sorry. You can set the interleave.
Example: CDC WREN II #200232
xbnsiz:=54 - number of transfer blocks. All DEC's disks seem to
use 54, regardless of capacity.
dbnsiz:=31 - = (SURPUN*17) - XBNSIZ
lbnsiz:=78115 - = first, take (Actual Cyls - 1) * SURPUN * 17 -
(XBN+DBN). Then calc RBNs and subtract them.
rbnsiz:=340 - = at least 0.2% of LBNSIZ
surpun:=5 - number of heads (surfaces)
cylpun:=925 - actual number of cylinders
wrtprc:=128 - cyl to start write precomp.
rctsiz:=4 - size of Replacement and Caching Table.
rctnbr:=8 - number of copies of the RCT. DEC disks appear to
always use 8.
secitl:=1 - sec/sec interleave. 1:1.
stsskw :=2 - sec/sec skew. All drives seem to use 2.
ctcskw :=8 - cyl/cyl skew. Most DEC drives seem to use 8.
mediai :=627327008 - media ID code. See "VS2000 Formatter.MHT" for
explanation.
Example: CDC WREN #200052 / 697 x 5 x 17 36mb
XBNSIZ:=54
DBNSIZ:=31
LBNSIZ:=58900
RBNSIZ:=175
SURPUN:=5
CYLPUN:=697
WRTPRC:=348
RCTSIZ:=4
RCTNBR:=8
SECITL:=1
STSSKW:=2
CTCSKW:=8
MEDAI:=627327028
Example: IMI 5012H #200051 / 306 x 4 x 17 WrPre: 214
XBNSIZ:=54
DBNSIZ:=14
LBNSIZ:=20600
RBNSIZ:=72
SURPUN:=4
CYLPUN:=306
WRTPRC:=214
RCTSIZ:=4
RCTNBR:=8
SECITL:=1
STSSKW:=2
CTCSKW:=8
MEDAI:=627327027
Others:
RD54 RD53 ST4097
------ ------ ------
XBNSIZ 54 54 54
DBNSIZ 201 82 99
LBNSIZ 311256 138672 156060
RBNSIZ 609 280 306
SURPUN 15 8 9
CYLPUN 1221? 1020? 1021?
WRTPRC 1221 1020 1024
RCTSIZ 7 5 5
RCTNBR 8 8 8
SECITL 1 1 1
STSSKW 2 2 2
CTCSKW 8 8 8
MEDAI 627327030 627327029 627327029
===============================================================
1:25 p.m.
On Sat, 16 May 2009, Pete Turnbull wrote:
RQDX1 and RQDX2 certainly use 3:1
RQDX1 and RQDX2 also use 18 sectors per track and a non-standard format.
--
roger ivie
rivie at ridgenet.net
3:04 p.m.
On 16/05/2009 18:25, Roger Ivie wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2009, Pete Turnbull wrote:
Yup, I know. Even the RQDX3 isn't quite like a PC controller's format,
either.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
RQDX1 and RQDX2 certainly use 3:1
RQDX1 and RQDX2 also use 18 sectors per track and a non-standard format. 
14 May
14 May
4:04 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks
Sent: 14 May 2009 18:40
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: DEC ST506 Interface Adapter Part No 54-17003-01
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Robert Jarratt
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:
Thanks very much for that. I thought this was an interface, and indeed the
item description calls it an interface (item no 170331891284), but I found
somewhere that said this was for a VS 2000, so it could be that the latter
description was incorrect. I was once told that some MicroVAX 3100s had an
ST506 option and thought this might be it.
Regards
Rob
Looks like it is for a VAXstation 2000. Knowing
that, does anyone
know if
such a thing could fit (and work) in one of the
two machines I
mention
above?
I have a couple of uVAX 2000s (same box, move a jumper and don't
attach a tube). The unexpanded box has connectors on the motherboard
and comes with cables to attach one drive. I've seen them usually
with RD53s and RD54s, but RD31s and RD32s should work fine, or IIRC,
any drive you can manage to format on an RQDX3 using the Field Service
formatter (not the Customer Runnable Diagnostics formatter). You can
format known models of drive (RD31, RD32, RD53, RD54, and perhaps
others) in the uVAX2000 box, too, but I don't think there's a way to
format non-DEC-geometry drives there.
So... unexpanded, you get a 20-pin and a 34-pin cable from the
mainboard to the drive. What this expansion *might* be is a
replacement cable that extends past the drive and goes out an access
plate on the bottom of the box, then to a connector on a "skirt" (that
should also be included) to give you a (ISTR) DD50P that you can cable
to an external drive. There may also be a small circuit board in the
skirt for the drive, it's been years since I've opened mine.
There's also room in the skirt for external connector for the 8-port
serial expander (DHT32?). I have one of those too, but haven't gotten
the external cabling to use it.
So... there _is_ a kit for adding an external disk connector to a
MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000, but I have no idea if this part number is
what it is. The *controller* is built into every uV/VS2000, but not
the cabling for an external drive.
-ethan
5527
days inactive
5529
days old
12 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
ajp166＠verizon.net -
ddsnyder＠zoominternet.net -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
js＠cimmeri.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com -
rivie＠ridgenet.net -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com