14 May
2008
14 May
'08
11:18 p.m.
Hi,
While looking at the service manual for the Tektronix 4010/4010-1 and
4014/4014-1 terminals, I came up with an idea for creating a screen
capture card for them using the principles from the Tektronix 4631 hard
copy unit for the terminals. This would give you the ability to capture
a pixel image from the Tektronix terminal's display tube.
How many people would be interested in such a project?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
15 May
15 May
2:40 p.m.
Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote: Hi,
While looking at the service manual for the Tektronix 4010/4010-1 and
4014/4014-1 terminals, I came up with an idea for creating a screen
capture card for them using the principles from the Tektronix 4631 hard
copy unit for the terminals. This would give you the ability to capture
a pixel image from the Tektronix terminal's display tube.
How many people would be interested in such a project?
--
I would. I only have one roll of paper left for the 4631.
Bob
3:13 p.m.
New subject: Do you have a Tektronix 4010? Want a screen capture for it?
In article <823250.66601.qm at web82703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>,
Bob Rosenbloom <bobalan at sbcglobal.net> writes:
Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote: Hi,
I have a 4631 with a roll of paper in it, but I've never tried to
print on it, assuming that the paper had long since past its shelf
life. Did you manage to get a useful print from your 4631? If so, I
may try to just hook mine up for yucks and see what happens. I just
assumed that the paper wouldn't be "active" after 20 years...
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
How many people would be interested in such a
project?
I would. I only have one roll of paper left for the 4631.
3:20 p.m.
New subject: Do you have a Tektronix 4010? Want a screen capture for it?
Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
I have a 4631 with a roll of paper in it, but I've never tried to
print on it, assuming that the paper had long since past its shelf
life. Did you manage to get a useful print from your 4631? If so, I
may try to just hook mine up for yucks and see what happens. I just
assumed that the paper wouldn't be "active" after 20 years...
Mine gives a usable image. There's not much contrast, but
it's better than nothing. Capturing the image and cleaning it
up in photoshop would be worthwhile. I believe my paper is
from 1981.
Bob
4:27 p.m.
New subject: Do you have a Tektronix 4010? Want a screen capture for it?
In article <515507.71579.qm at web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>,
Bob Rosenbloom <bobalan at sbcglobal.net> writes:
Mine gives a usable image. There's not much
contrast, but
it's better than nothing. Capturing the image and cleaning it
up in photoshop would be worthwhile. I believe my paper is
from 1981.
OK, since you're interested, I'll go into a little more detail of what
I was thinking...
In the 4010/4014 terminals (and probably more, but I've only read the
service manuals for those two) there is a little bit of additional
circuitry that is installed into the terminal to support the printer.
This is the "-1" designation, i.e. 4010 is just the terminal without
printer circuitry and 4010-1 is the terminal with the printer support
circuitry. This terminal circuitry was only available from the
factory and not as a user-installable option AFAIK.
As I understand it the 4631 hardcopy unit is entirely an analog
circuitry affair. It generates three input signals to the terminal
and the printer support circuitry in the terminal generates a response
signal. The hard copy unit generates a "slow ramp" that scans the
tube from top to bottom and a "fast ramp" that scans from left to
right many times within the slow ramp. This in effect runs a scanning
beam in a raster type pattern across the type. The third signal
generated by the hard copy unit is a sense signal that is sent to the
terminal to read out the tube at the location indicated by the current
values of the slow and fast ramps. The terminal sends a response to
the hard copy unit, which it uses to turn into an image on a drum with
the paper.
My idea was to either a) cannibalize the ramp generation circuitry out
of the 4631 and interface that to a microcontroller that digitized the
response from the terminal, or b) use the ramp generation circuitry
diagrams for the 4631 to create an equivalent modern circuit driven by
the microcontroller which digitzed the return value from the terminal.
The microcontroller would probably use USB to attach to a host or
something like that. So you would press your hard copy switch on the
terminal and the microcontroller would scan through the tube by
generating the fast and slow ramps, digitize the responses and turn
this into a bitmap that would be available to the host.
Presto! Screen capture from your 4010-1/4014-1.
A followon idea would be to create the necessary printer support
circuitry in the terminal using the service manual schematics so that
people could "upgrade" their 4010 to a 4010-1.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
6:01 p.m.
New subject: Do you have a Tektronix 4010? Want a screen capture for it?
Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
OK, since you're interested, I'll go into a little more detail of what
I was thinking...
Snipped:
As I understand it the 4631 hardcopy unit is entirely an analog
circuitry affair. It generates three input signals to the terminal
and the printer support circuitry in the terminal generates a response
signal. The hard copy unit generates a "slow ramp" that scans the
tube from top to bottom and a "fast ramp" that scans from left to
right many times within the slow ramp. This in effect runs a scanning
beam in a raster type pattern across the type. The third signal
generated by the hard copy unit is a sense signal that is sent to the
terminal to read out the tube at the location indicated by the current
values of the slow and fast ramps. The terminal sends a response to
the hard copy unit, which it uses to turn into an image on a drum with
the paper.
That is how it appears to work. When printing, you can clearly see the scan lines at work.
They are in write-through mode, that
is they are not stored. Might be possible to just use a couple of 12 bit DAC's and
software scan. I once thought of using a sound card to generate ramps and digitize the
tube's analog
output signal.
Bob
6:59 p.m.
New subject: Do you have a Tektronix 4010? Want a screen capture for it?
In article <711798.58590.qm at web82708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>,
Bob Rosenbloom <bobalan at sbcglobal.net> writes:
[...] I once thought of using a sound card to generate
ramps and
digitize the tube's analog output signal.
Ooooh... sneaky! I like that idea. I doubt the voltage levels are
compatible, but I haven't looked at the schematics closely enough to
know for sure.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
16 May
16 May
7:03 a.m.
New subject: Do you have a Tektronix 4010? Want a screen capture for it?
On May 15, 2008, at 6:59 PM, Richard wrote:
It sounds like a very nice little microcontroller project. If I
had a 4010 I'd build one in a heartbeat.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
[...] I once
thought of using a sound card to generate ramps and
digitize the tube's analog output signal.
Ooooh... sneaky! I like that idea. I doubt the voltage levels are
compatible, but I haven't looked at the schematics closely enough to
know for sure. 
17 May
17 May
10 a.m.
New subject: Do you have a Tektronix 4010? Want a screen capture for it?
I'll put my name down as interested, please!
I have a Tek 4052, which I believe has a compatible printer port. (I
can't remember whether the 4006 also does.) My printer (4631? 4641?
Whatever) doesn't work, but I don't want to dismantle it for the
waveform generators. I like the sound card idea better, but a
microcontroller is more portable - it will provide an image to more
different machines.
Presto! Screen capture from your 4010-1/4014-1.
No chance. There is _no way_ anything operating at the speed of that
machine could be described as "presto" ;-)
Philip.
18 May
18 May
11:17 a.m.
New subject: Do you have a Tektronix 4010? Want a screen capture for it?
In article <482EE503.7020204 at axeside.co.uk>,
Philip Belben <philip at axeside.co.uk> writes:
I have a Tek 4052, which I believe has a compatible
printer port. (I
can't remember whether the 4006 also does.)
The 4006 would have to have the "-1" designation to indicate it
includes the printer support circuitry on the display tube.
The 1982 tektronix catalog says that the 4051 and 4052 are compatible
with the 2631.
As far as cannibalizing a 4631, I believe the ramp circuitry is
contained on a card that plugs into a bus. So it would be just
removing the card from the unit and plugging it into a special piece
of custom hardware.
However, the ramp circuitry can easily be duplicated in software with
a D/A converter and the appropriate driver circuit.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
1:35 p.m.
New subject: Do you have a Tektronix 4010? Want a screen capture for it?
I'll put my name down as interested, please!
I have a Tek 4052, which I believe has a compatible printer port. (I
can't remember whether the 4006 also does.) My printer (4631? 4641?
I think they both do. From what I remember, the printer port interfaces
to the CRT flood guns, and essentially reads out the storage target of
said CRT. Almost all old Tekky storage terminals, etc have the port
Whatever) doesn't work, but I don't want to
dismantle it for the
Wht;s wrong with it? Just old paper (it was a light-sensitive paper
running over a 1-line CRT IIRC) or something more interesting?
-tony
2:18 p.m.
New subject: Do you have a Tektronix 4010? Want a screen capture for it?
In article <m1JxmnA-000IxyC at p850ug1>,
ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) writes:
Almost all old Tekky storage terminals, etc have the
port
Not really. The 405x models have the port, but for earlier terminals
you had to have the "-1" model to have the printer support circuitry.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
4:44 p.m.
New subject: Do you have a Tektronix 4010? Want a screen capture for it?
I have a Tek
4052, which I believe has a compatible printer port. (I
can't remember whether the 4006 also does.) My printer (4631? 4641?
I think they both do. From what I remember, the printer port interfaces
to the CRT flood guns, and essentially reads out the storage target of
said CRT. Almost all old Tekky storage terminals, etc have the port Whatever)
doesn't work, but I don't want to dismantle it for the
Wht;s wrong with it? Just old paper (it was a light-sensitive paper
running over a 1-line CRT IIRC) or something more interesting?
19 May
19 May
4:02 p.m.
New subject: Do you have a Tektronix 4010? Want a screen capture for it?
I have a
Tek 4052, which I believe has a compatible printer port. (I
can't remember whether the 4006 also does.) My printer (4631? 4641?
I think they both do. From what I remember, the printer port interfaces
to the CRT flood guns, and essentially reads out the storage target of
said CRT. Almost all old Tekky storage terminals, etc have the port Whatever)
doesn't work, but I don't want to dismantle it for the
Wht;s wrong with it? Just old paper (it was a light-sensitive paper
running over a 1-line CRT IIRC) or something more interesting?
I also STR I have your manual for it somewhere :-(
Actually _I_ borrowed it from a place I no longer have any contact with.
I suspect they've long forgotten about it (I don't remember the being any
4631 around, all otehr old Tekky stuff was given to me, etc).
-tony
5:05 p.m.
New subject: Do you have a Tektronix 4010? Want a screen capture for it?
In article <m1JyBZI-000IxyC at p850ug1>,
ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) writes:
Presumably it does something clever with the write gun in order to scan
it. Write at a marginal voltage and monitor current?
I can't remember (and I really don't feel like looking anything up at the
momnet :-(), but I thoguht it only interfaces to the flood guns. I seem
to rememebr the interface board in oen of the terminals (presumably the
-1 option that others have mentioend connected between the flood gun pins
on the CRT and the normal connector for said pins.
The connections are spelled out in the service manual. IIRC, most of
the additional circuitry is an amplifier that amplifies the sensed
signal from the tube back to the printer.
I have a Tek
4052, which I believe has a compatible printer port. (I
can't remember whether the 4006 also does.) My printer (4631? 4641?
I think they both do. From what I remember, the printer port interfaces
to the CRT flood guns, and essentially reads out the storage target of
said CRT. Almost all old Tekky storage terminals, etc have the port IIRC, the paper is thermally developed, so
'smelling hot' might well be
normal.
I used one in 1979-1980 time frame and I recall there being an odor to
the normal print process. I don't know if its what you would call
"smelling hot", though.
But IIRC the paper has a very limited shelf life, and
it's likely that
yours is way past that now. Even if everything else works you might have
problems...
Bob Rosenbloom stated that he got a print out of his with 20+ year old
paper, with a lower contrast than normal. So I suppose like most
perishable supplies it depends on how it was stored. Stored 20 years
in a climate controlled environment and it still might have some life
in it yet, although suboptimal contrast would be expected.
I have one with some paper in it, but I haven't tried to print with
it.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
7:14 p.m.
New subject: Do you have a Tektronix 4010? Want a screen capture for it?
The operation of the signalling for the 4014-1 is described on pages
5-37 of the service manual. I believe the signalling for the 4010-1
is identical.
Page 5-1 of the service manual has the index to all the circuit
descriptions in the manual. Relevant sections appear to be:
Display Unit Circuitry Block Diagram, pgs 5-35 -- 5-37.
TC-2 Block Diagram Description, Auto Make Copy Circuit, pg 5-58
Hard Copy Target Signal Amplifier Board, pg 5-85
<http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/tektronix/401x/070-2303-00_4014_4015%20Service_Mar79.pdf>
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
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days inactive
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15 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bobalan＠sbcglobal.net -
legalize＠xmission.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
philip＠axeside.co.uk