30 Sep
2007
30 Sep
'07
8:28 a.m.
Well, last night, I went and collected my first ever DEC box. It's a
VAXstation 3100/38, bought on eBay for 99p (UK?0.99).
It will be a few weeks until I get it home, and currently, it has no
hard disks, but I'm hoping to rectify that.
I plan to put 2 or 3 old SCSI disks in it - whatever I can find that
will fit. I am sure they'll all be well under 1GB, as I believe that
is a limitation for boot disks. I think I have a couple of 80MB ones
around and maybe a 150MB or so.
The two problems I don't currently have answers for are these.
[1] I don't have a suitable monitor cable. I have a keyboard, 3 mice,
and a DEC 17" mono monitor with a single BNC connector on the back. I
also have a monitor cable, but it's an RGB one - one end is 3
colour-coded BNC connectors, the other is a D plug with three large
shrouded sockets - like the larger connectors in a YB13 monitor cable
but without the standard pins. On the back of the VAX is a monitor out
port, but it's a D connector. Alas the machine is currently 15mi away
or so, so I can't check, but I think it has about 20 pins. Again, a D
connector.
What sort of monitors will a VAXstation drive? I have an old Mac 21"
monitor with a YB13 connector, which syncs happily enough to both PCs
and Macs at around 1024x768, 1280x1024 (at a refresh rate of about
twice a minute) and some Mac res in between - 1152x870 or so. Where on
earth can I find a VAXstation video cable in 2007?
[2] Friends have commented to me that a VAX of this age won't be able
to boot from CD-ROM. Somewhere, I have a hobbyist VMS CD, if I can
find it. It's been suggested to me that the easiest way to install
would be to install VMS onto SIMH on my PC, netboot the VAXstation off
the simulated VAX and install from one to the other. This sounds
moderately hairy to me. I'm not a VMS virgin but I've not used it in
15y or so and I've never installed a machine from scratch - I just did
day-to-day sysop duties.
Is this likely to be correct? That a 3100/38 won't be able to boot
from CD? If it can, what sort of CD-ROM drive will I
need? Do I need
the special 512KB block support that SPARCstations are supposed to
need? I have an old external Apple drive (CD300, I think) that I hope
will do, if I can come up with the right permutations of SCSI cables
to connect it...
--
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30 Sep
30 Sep
8:35 a.m.
"Liam Proven" <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
The two problems I don't currently have answers
for are these.
[1] I don't have a suitable monitor cable.
If you don't find one, you can still use a MMJ serial cable/console
to boot it.
[2] Friends have commented to me that a VAX of this
age won't be able
to boot from CD-ROM.
It will, but you'll have to find a SCSI CD-ROM that supports 512 byte blocks.
find it. It's been suggested to me that the
easiest way to install
would be to install VMS onto SIMH on my PC, netboot the VAXstation off
the simulated VAX and install from one to the other. This sounds
moderately hairy to me. I'm not a VMS virgin but I've not used it in
15y or so and I've never installed a machine from scratch - I just did
day-to-day sysop duties.
VAXcluster setup isn't hard but I've been doing it for decades and
learned all the tricks in the first couple years, so maybe I'm
not the guy to judge :-).
Tim.
1 Oct
1 Oct
10:36 a.m.
On 30/09/2007, Tim Shoppa <shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com> wrote:
Did I not mention that in my original post? :?) Looking back I appear
to have put KB instead of B, but still...
"Liam Proven" <lproven at gmail.com>
wrote:
I don't own a serial terminal. I'd have to try to make a cable and
hook it to a PC and use a terminal emulator. Yet more complexity!
The two problems I don't currently have
answers for are these.
[1] I don't have a suitable monitor cable.
If you don't find one, you can still use a MMJ serial cable/console
to boot it. [2] Friends
have commented to me that a VAX of this age won't be able
to boot from CD-ROM.
It will, but you'll have to find a SCSI CD-ROM that supports 512 byte blocks. VAXcluster setup isn't hard but I've been
doing it for decades and
learned all the tricks in the first couple years, so maybe I'm
not the guy to judge :-).
I've not touched a VMS prompt since about 1995 and even then I never
installed a machine or built a cluster. I did things like back it up,
clear out logfiles, add the odd user and reboot occasionally.
--
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2 Oct
2 Oct
12:42 p.m.
Liam Proven wrote:
Making an MMJ cable is a piece of cake. Just take the retention clip
off of the RJ11 at the end of a phone cord. Crimp an RJ45 on the other
end with the proper wires heading to the proper pins, and use a Cisco
RJ45->DE9 adapter.
Peace... Sridhar
If you
don't find one, you can still use a MMJ serial cable/console
to boot it.
I don't own a serial terminal. I'd have to try to make a cable and
hook it to a PC and use a terminal emulator. Yet more complexity! 
1:12 p.m.
Making an MMJ cable is a piece of cake. Just take the retention clip
off of the RJ11 at the end of a phone cord. Crimp an RJ45 on the other
Rememeber the OP (and I) are in the UK. The standard telephone connector
over here is not an RJ11 or snythig like that.
end with the proper wires heading to the proper pins,
and use a Cisco
RJ45->DE9 adapter.
Having had to try to get wires into the right holes on an RJ45 connector,
I would _much_ rather solder up a D connector.
-tony
1:42 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
What is the connector over there? I remember seeing RJ11/14 connectors
in India, in certain places.
I suppose I have a lot of practice, but I can strip, order, cut and
crimp and RJ45 for ethernet in about 30 seconds. It takes longer than
that for my iron to warm up.
Peace... Sridhar
Making an MMJ
cable is a piece of cake. Just take the retention clip
off of the RJ11 at the end of a phone cord. Crimp an RJ45 on the other
Rememeber the OP (and I) are in the UK. The standard telephone connector
over here is not an RJ11 or snythig like that. end with the
proper wires heading to the proper pins, and use a Cisco
RJ45->DE9 adapter.
Having had to try to get wires into the right holes on an RJ45 connector,
I would _much_ rather solder up a D connector. 
5:33 p.m.
On Tue, 2 Oct 2007, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
I suppose I have a lot of practice, but I can strip,
order, cut and
crimp and RJ45 for ethernet in about 30 seconds. It takes longer than
that for my iron to warm up.
only because you've been turning it off or unplugging it between uses.
3 Oct
3 Oct
10:49 a.m.
Fred Cisin wrote:
I'd rather my tips not oxidize.
Peace... Sridhar
I suppose I
have a lot of practice, but I can strip, order, cut and
crimp and RJ45 for ethernet in about 30 seconds. It takes longer than
that for my iron to warm up.
only because you've been turning it off or unplugging it between uses. 
10:56 p.m.
On Wednesday 03 October 2007 13:49, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
Fred Cisin wrote:
I'd rather my tips not oxidize.
Peace... Sridhar
That's why I built a little box with a couple of switches, a couple of neon
indcators, and a couple of rectifier diodes...
One switch turns it on and off. The other cuts the power to half, which I
leave it on for "standby". And with a 45W element holding a 1/8" chisel
tip,
they last a LONG time for me. Years, even, depending on what I'm doing.
Lots of salvage with a solder sucker seems to eat 'em up quicker.
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
I suppose
I have a lot of practice, but I can strip, order, cut and
crimp and RJ45 for ethernet in about 30 seconds. It takes longer than
that for my iron to warm up.
only because you've been turning it off or unplugging it between uses.
2:38 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
What is the connector over there? I remember seeing RJ11/14 connectors
in India, in certain places.
It's something called a 'BT 600' plug IIRC. COnceptially it's like an
RJ11, in that there are metal contacts on one face of the plug that mate
with spring contacts in the socket, but while the RJ11 os almost square
seen end-on, the BT plug is much wider than it's high (say a 2:1 ratio).
the cotnacts (6 positions, for most domestic installations only the
centre 4 are fitted) are on one of the long faces, the latch is on one of
the short sides. Which side the latch is on indicates whether it's a
'line' or 'handset' connector I think. This conenctor is always white,
there was (I've not seen one for years) similar black connector with
different key notches (so you could not fit that in a telephone socket or
vice versa) which was used for 'data' applicaitons, I believe the
Sinclair QL had them for serial and joystick ports.
I would think any of the UK electronic compoent distributors would have a
picture on their web sites. Try http://www.rswww.com/ or
http://www.farnell.com/
Making an
MMJ cable is a piece of cake. Just take the retention clip
off of the RJ11 at the end of a phone cord. Crimp an RJ45 on the other
Rememeber the OP (and I) are in the UK. The standard telephone connector
over here is not an RJ11 or snythig like that. I suppose I have a lot of practice, but I can strip,
order, cut and
crimp and RJ45 for ethernet in about 30 seconds. It takes longer than
that for my iron to warm up.
Ah, when I'm doing hardware hacking (i.e. almost all the time) my iron is
always turned on. I know I am going to need it.
-tony
4 Oct
4 Oct
12:13 a.m.
On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 16:42:30 -0400
Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> wrote:
It takes longer than that for my iron to warm up.
Wrong iron. => Metcal.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
9:11 a.m.
On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 05:02:06 -0400
Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> wrote:
Mine is a Metcal.
I allways thought Metcals need
only a few seconds to heat up?
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
11:16 a.m.
Jochen Kunz wrote:
They get hot quick, but they still take about 45 seconds to stabilize
completely. The main benefit is that they have an effectively infinite
power reserve. The tip doesn't cool while your working, even if you're
working on giant stuff.
Peace... Sridhar
Mine is a
Metcal.
I allways thought Metcals need only a few seconds to heat up?
5 Oct
5 Oct
2:20 a.m.
On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 14:16:56 -0400
Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> wrote:
They get hot quick, but they still take about 45
seconds to stabilize
completely.
Ahh, OK. Didn't know that.
The main benefit is that they have an effectively
infinite power reserve. The tip doesn't cool while your working,
even if you're working on giant stuff.
That is the reason I wane get a Metcal.
Unfortunately they fetch quite
some EUR, even used on ebay. At least at this side of The Pond.
I remember when I tried to unsolder a SMD capacitor on a mainboard with
a Weller. Despite its 80 W it was really hard to get the capacitor off.
The tip was unable to transport enough heat to the ground plane solder
joint. Even my primitive 25 W mains powered ERSA can do better.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
2 Oct
2 Oct
1:15 p.m.
On Tuesday 02 October 2007, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
Liam Proven wrote:
Making an MMJ cable is a piece of cake. Just take the retention clip
off of the RJ11 at the end of a phone cord. Crimp an RJ45 on the
other end with the proper wires heading to the proper pins, and use a
Cisco RJ45->DE9 adapter.
If you're using the right Cisco adapter on the other end
(labelled "Terminal" usually, but not "Modem", basically any DB25 or
DE9 adapter that's got a female end), you shouldn't need to recrimp the
other end. Just shove the RJ11 into the adapter and
the 'ez-disconnect' end into the MMJ jack. (This assumes that the
phone cable is properly wired as a "roll-over" cable, with the wires on
either end being in the opposite order, and that you've got at least 4
pins wired on the cable. Just 2 pins wired, and all you'll do is wire
the grounds together. :)
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
If you
don't find one, you can still use a MMJ serial
cable/console to boot it.
I don't own a serial terminal. I'd have to try to make a cable and
hook it to a PC and use a terminal emulator. Yet more complexity!
1:43 p.m.
Patrick Finnegan wrote:
Making an MMJ
cable is a piece of cake. Just take the retention clip
off of the RJ11 at the end of a phone cord. Crimp an RJ45 on the
other end with the proper wires heading to the proper pins, and use a
Cisco RJ45->DE9 adapter.
If you're using the right Cisco adapter on the other end
(labelled "Terminal" usually, but not "Modem", basically any DB25 or
DE9 adapter that's got a female end), you shouldn't need to recrimp the
other end. Just shove the RJ11 into the adapter and
the 'ez-disconnect' end into the MMJ jack.
Wow. That's cool. That'll save me some time next time.
Peace... Sridhar
If you
don't find one, you can still use a MMJ serial
cable/console to boot it.
I don't own a serial terminal. I'd have to try
to make a cable and
hook it to a PC and use a terminal emulator. Yet more complexity! 
30 Sep
30 Sep
8:36 a.m.
On 9/30/07, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
Is this likely to be correct? That a 3100/38 won't
be able to boot
from CD? If it can, what sort of CD-ROM drive will I need? Do I need
the special 512KB block support that SPARCstations are supposed to
need? I have an old external Apple drive (CD300, I think) that I hope
will do, if I can come up with the right permutations of SCSI cables
to connect it...
My 3100/30 boots fine off the Hobbyist VMS disc using my
boots-anything Apple CD300 (aka Sony) drive. It's the one with the
removable trays, not built-in. That drive has booted all the Vaxen,
SGI, Suns and NeXT machines I have. Painfully slow, but does the job.
Some DEChead can correct me on this, but I believe that's also the
same drive in DEC's RRD42 as well.
--
jht
8:54 a.m.
Jason T wrote:
My 3100/30 boots fine off the Hobbyist VMS disc using
my
boots-anything Apple CD300 (aka Sony) drive.
You got there first :-) Pulls of drives from old Apple systems seem like a
good bet - I've used a few on various machines which need a 512 byte block
size. I normally use an Apple CD600, but it isn't quite perfect - some SGI
systems don't like it for some reason (others do, as does everything non-SGI
I've hooked it up to)
Freecycle lists seem awash with old 90's Apple kit free for the asking...
cheers
Jules
1 Oct
1 Oct
10:37 a.m.
On 30/09/2007, Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Freecycle lists seem awash with old 90's Apple kit
free for the asking...
Alas, *my garage* is awash with old Apple kit!
Any CCers in London, England who fancy a free Mac should contact me at
the details below...
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
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2 Oct
2 Oct
5:54 p.m.
At 4:54 PM +0100 9/30/07, Jules Richardson wrote:
Jason T wrote:
I've had very good luck with an external Panasonic 4x CD-ROM drive I
purchased new in '95 for my PowerBook 520c. It has worked on
everything I've connected it to. I've used it on both a Mac and PC
laptop, and on numerous DEC, SUN, and Amiga systems. My only SGI
systems have built in CD-ROM's. Another likely source would be old
Sun Hardware.
As I've previously mentioned I'm quite fond of Plextor caddy drives
for my PDP-11's.
If you're trying to boot an old enough version of VAX/VMS then I
suspect 3rd party drives could cause problems. I know the Hard
Drives will. I'd recommend OpenVMS 7.2 or 7.3 for greatest SCSI
compatibility. I simply only use DEC HD's on VAXen. Even though I
use 3rd party drives on my PDP-11's and Alpha's.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
My 3100/30 boots fine off the Hobbyist VMS disc
using my
boots-anything Apple CD300 (aka Sony) drive.
You got there first :-) Pulls of drives from old Apple systems seem
like a good bet - I've used a few on various machines which need a
512 byte block size. I normally use an Apple CD600, but it isn't
quite perfect - some SGI systems don't like it for some reason
(others do, as does everything non-SGI I've hooked it up to)
3 Oct
3 Oct
10:50 a.m.
Zane H. Healy wrote:
I've had very good luck with an external Panasonic 4x CD-ROM drive I
purchased new in '95 for my PowerBook 520c. It has worked on everything
I've connected it to. I've used it on both a Mac and PC laptop, and on
numerous DEC, SUN, and Amiga systems. My only SGI systems have built in
CD-ROM's. Another likely source would be old Sun Hardware.
I use Toshiba XM-4101s, the third-height one.
Peace... Sridhar
My 3100/30 boots fine off the Hobbyist VMS disc using
my
boots-anything Apple CD300 (aka Sony) drive.
You got there first :-) Pulls of drives from old Apple systems seem
like a good bet - I've used a few on various machines which need a 512
byte block size. I normally use an Apple CD600, but it isn't quite
perfect - some SGI systems don't like it for some reason (others do,
as does everything non-SGI I've hooked it up to)
1 Oct
1 Oct
10:38 a.m.
On 30/09/2007, Jason T <silent700 at gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/30/07, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com>
wrote:
Excellent news. Thanks for that!
--
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Is this likely to be correct? That a 3100/38
won't be able to boot
from CD? If it can, what sort of CD-ROM drive will I need? Do I need
the special 512KB block support that SPARCstations are supposed to
need? I have an old external Apple drive (CD300, I think) that I hope
will do, if I can come up with the right permutations of SCSI cables
to connect it...
My 3100/30 boots fine off the Hobbyist VMS disc using my
boots-anything Apple CD300 (aka Sony) drive. It's the one with the
removable trays, not built-in. That drive has booted all the Vaxen,
SGI, Suns and NeXT machines I have. Painfully slow, but does the job. 
30 Sep
30 Sep
8:50 a.m.
Liam,
On 9/30/07, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
Well, last night, I went and collected my first ever
DEC box. It's a
VAXstation 3100/38, bought on eBay for 99p (UK?0.99).
[2] Friends have commented to me that a VAX of this age won't be able
to boot from CD-ROM. Somewhere, I have a hobbyist VMS CD, if I can
find it. It's been suggested to me that the easiest way to install
would be to install VMS onto SIMH on my PC, netboot the VAXstation off
the simulated VAX and install from one to the other. This sounds
moderately hairy to me. I'm not a VMS virgin but I've not used it in
15y or so and I've never installed a machine from scratch - I just did
day-to-day sysop duties.
Congratulations, by the way. :-)
I went a slightly different route, lacking an appropriate CD-ROM
drive: I installed OpenVMS/VAX 7.2 Hobbyist onto a SIMH disk image,
then DD'd the image onto a real SCSI drive in Unix. My 3100 M38
booted off the hard drive and has been quite happy since.
Installing from scratch isn't that hard. There are a few tutorials
(geared for SIMH) that'll get you started online, like this one:
http://www.wherry.com/gadgets/retrocomputing/vax-simh.html
...Josef
--
"I laugh because I dare not cry. This is a crazy world
and the only way to enjoy it is to treat it as a joke."
-- Hilda "Sharpie" Burroughs,
"The Number of the Beast" by Robert A. Heinlein
1 Oct
1 Oct
10:40 a.m.
On 30/09/2007, Josef Chessor <josefcub at gmail.com> wrote:
Liam,
On 9/30/07, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks!
Well, last night, I went and collected my first
ever DEC box. It's a
VAXstation 3100/38, bought on eBay for 99p (UK?0.99).
[2] Friends have commented to me that a VAX of this age won't be able
to boot from CD-ROM. Somewhere, I have a hobbyist VMS CD, if I can
find it. It's been suggested to me that the easiest way to install
would be to install VMS onto SIMH on my PC, netboot the VAXstation off
the simulated VAX and install from one to the other. This sounds
moderately hairy to me. I'm not a VMS virgin but I've not used it in
15y or so and I've never installed a machine from scratch - I just did
day-to-day sysop duties.
Congratulations, by the way. :-) I went a slightly different route, lacking an
appropriate CD-ROM
drive: I installed OpenVMS/VAX 7.2 Hobbyist onto a SIMH disk image,
then DD'd the image onto a real SCSI drive in Unix. My 3100 M38
booted off the hard drive and has been quite happy since.
Gosh. I hadn't thought of that. I no longer use SCSI much on PCs, but
I could stick a card into my Linux box and do that, no problem...
Installing from scratch isn't that hard. There
are a few tutorials
(geared for SIMH) that'll get you started online, like this one:
http://www.wherry.com/gadgets/retrocomputing/vax-simh.html
Thanks. I had already seen and read that. Moderately hairy, but I *am*
doing this to learn!
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
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30 Sep
30 Sep
8:51 a.m.
Liam Proven wrote:
Well, last night, I went and collected my first ever
DEC box. It's a
VAXstation 3100/38, bought on eBay for 99p (UK?0.99).
Good price ;-)
[2] Friends have commented to me that a VAX of this
age won't be able
to boot from CD-ROM. Somewhere, I have a hobbyist VMS CD, if I can
find it.
They boot from CD just fine. All you have to find is the right CDROM
drive. Some could be jumpered to 512k blocks, actually the best
experience woth non DEC drives is to use CD-burners. Just try it out.
Good luck
10:47 a.m.
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:28:18 +0100
"Liam Proven" <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
[1] I don't have a suitable monitor cable.
It is not hard to construct. The VAXstation 3100 has a DA15 with RGB
analog video output. Every multisync monitor, that can understand sync
on green, will do the job. The pinout is somthere on the net. IIRC there
are three pins for RGB and a separate pin for mono-video. If you don't
have a color frame buffer (GPX or SPX) just connect the mono output to
the green channel of the monitor.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
1 Oct
1 Oct
10:34 a.m.
On 30/09/2007, Jochen Kunz <jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:28:18 +0100
"Liam Proven" <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
I've not soldered a computer cable since the 1980s and I was rubbish
at it then. And even so, I have no source for the relevant connectors!
[1] I don't have a suitable monitor cable.
It is not hard to construct. If you don't
have a color frame buffer (GPX or SPX)
How would I tell?
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12:48 p.m.
On Mon, 1 Oct 2007 18:34:17 +0100
"Liam Proven" <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
There may
be some boot PROM commands to get that information, maybe
"show conf". (It is to long ago that I played with a VS3k1.) At least
you can see it by physical inspection: The mono frame buffer is on the
main PCB. GPX or SPX are mezzanine plug in cards sitting on top of the
main PCB, maybe 20x25 cm^2 in size. Don't confuse it with RAM options.
These are mezzanine plug in cards too, but they are only about 10x20
cm^2 and they are aligned to the front of the machine. The framebuffer
is aligned in the middle / a bit to the back.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
If you
don't have a color frame buffer (GPX or SPX)
How would I tell?
6:06 p.m.
On 01/10/2007, Jochen Kunz <jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> wrote:
On Mon, 1 Oct 2007 18:34:17 +0100
"Liam Proven" <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
There may
be some boot PROM commands to get that information, maybe
"show conf".
Tricky, when I have no display yet... :?)
If you
don't have a color frame buffer (GPX or SPX)
How would I tell? At least
you can see it by physical inspection: The mono frame buffer is on the
main PCB. GPX or SPX are mezzanine plug in cards sitting on top of the
main PCB, maybe 20x25 cm^2 in size. Don't confuse it with RAM options.
These are mezzanine plug in cards too, but they are only about 10x20
cm^2 and they are aligned to the front of the machine. The framebuffer
is aligned in the middle / a bit to the back.
Taking it apart, I can do, and indeed am rather looking forward to,
when I get it home! I don't know how much RAM it's got yet, either.
I have had the lid off. Poking up above the tray that the internal
disks sit on, there is what I think is a SCSI controller. That's all I
could see.
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3:37 p.m.
I've not soldered a computer cable since the 1980s
and I was rubbish
at it then. And even so, I have no source for the relevant connectors!
For the last part, RS components, Farnell, Digikey???
For the first part, I'd offer to do it for you, but it would be illegal
to do so. Owing to our totally daft laws, (a) I'd have to use lead-free
solder, which I don't have, don't trust, and am not set up to use and (b)
it has been said that if an enthusiast (specifically a model engineer,
but it would apply here too) does jobs for others, then his workshop
becomes a workplace and is covered by all the daft health-and-safety
rules that I have no desire to get involved with, and which quite
honestly, would stop me from getting on with things.
-tony
2 Oct
2 Oct
8:16 a.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
The way around that last bit, I believe, would be to make the cable for
yourself, and let him have it as a gift, no?
Peace... Sridhar
I've not
soldered a computer cable since the 1980s and I was rubbish
at it then. And even so, I have no source for the relevant connectors!
For the last part, RS components, Farnell, Digikey???
For the first part, I'd offer to do it for you, but it would be illegal
to do so. Owing to our totally daft laws, (a) I'd have to use lead-free
solder, which I don't have, don't trust, and am not set up to use and (b)
it has been said that if an enthusiast (specifically a model engineer,
but it would apply here too) does jobs for others, then his workshop
becomes a workplace and is covered by all the daft health-and-safety
rules that I have no desire to get involved with, and which quite
honestly, would stop me from getting on with things.
5:48 p.m.
New subject: lead-free solder (was: Setting up a VAXstation)
At 11:37 PM +0100 10/1/07, Tony Duell wrote:
For the first part, I'd offer to do it for you, but
it would be illegal
to do so. Owing to our totally daft laws, (a) I'd have to use lead-free
solder, which I don't have, don't trust, and am not set up to use and
How hard is it to work with lead-free solder, and is it becoming a
problem to get traditional solder in the US? I've been meaning to
pick up a few rolls. As I'm still using a roll purchased in the 80's
from Rat Shack for building a couple things for my
VIC-20, I haven't
been going through it that fast. Though I seem to be using
it more
often now than.
(b)
it has been said that if an enthusiast (specifically a model engineer,
but it would apply here too) does jobs for others, then his workshop
becomes a workplace and is covered by all the daft health-and-safety
rules that I have no desire to get involved with, and which quite
honestly, would stop me from getting on with things.
Does it count as a job if you don't take payment?
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
8 Oct
8 Oct
12:14 a.m.
On Mon, 1 Oct 2007, Tony Duell wrote:
I'm wondering, does any of that also apply to cables imported into the UK
I've not
soldered a computer cable since the 1980s and I was rubbish at
it then. And even so, I have no source for the relevant connectors!
For the last part, RS components, Farnell, Digikey???
For the first part, I'd offer to do it for you, but it would be illegal
to do so. Owing to our totally daft laws, (a) I'd have to use lead-free
solder, which I don't have, don't trust, and am not set up to use and
(b) it has been said that if an enthusiast (specifically a model
engineer, but it would apply here too) does jobs for others, then his
workshop becomes a workplace and is covered by all the daft
health-and-safety rules that I have no desire to get involved with, and
which quite honestly, would stop me from getting on with things. from the US? 99% of the cables I make and ship to the
UK are made with
crimped connections (done with the correct OEM tooling and given a
good
pull test too). Because a lot of the connectors I use are NOS/vintage, I
really have no idea if they have lead in them though. I suspect most don't
as the D-sub pins I tend to use are the gold plated AMP brand pins, but
this does get me wondering. I know the modular plugs I use are lead free
at least.
2:36 p.m.
[Lead-free parts, RoHS Directive, etc]
I'm wondering, does any of that also apply to cables imported into the UK
from the US? 99% of the cables I make and ship to the UK are made with
I beleive it does. I think it applies to anything sold within the EU,
which would conver cables made in the States and sold in the UK, even as
1-offs.
I can't rememebr all the exemptions to the directive, though. There is
certainly one for repair (you can repair equipment originally made with
leaded solder/parts using leaded solder/parts). There _may_ be one about
accessories that can only be used with machines made with leaded
solder/parts.
crimped connections (done with the correct OEM tooling
and given a good
pull test too). Because a lot of the connectors I use are NOS/vintage, I
really have no idea if they have lead in them though. I suspect most don't
It's not just lead. I think cadmium platings is a big no-no now.
as the D-sub pins I tend to use are the gold plated
AMP brand pins, but
You;d be suprised. As I said it's not just lead. I seem to rememebr a
Molex plug housing (plasic moulding, no metal parts at all) has bad to be
made in a different plastic, the originals didn't meet te RoHS directive
(!).
-tony
2 Oct
2 Oct
7:02 a.m.
Jochen Kunz wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:28:18 +0100
"Liam Proven" <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
The graphics on this machine wouldn't be 1024x864?
If it is, then most multisync monitors will have trouble with it, no?
Peace... Sridhar
[1] I don't have a suitable monitor cable.
It is not hard to construct. The VAXstation 3100 has a DA15 with RGB
analog video output. Every multisync monitor, that can understand sync
on green, will do the job. The pinout is somthere on the net. IIRC there
are three pins for RGB and a separate pin for mono-video. If you don't
have a color frame buffer (GPX or SPX) just connect the mono output to
the green channel of the monitor.
12:11 p.m.
On 02/10/2007, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> wrote:
The graphics on this machine wouldn't be
1024x864?
If it is, then most multisync monitors will have trouble with it, no?
Why would that be a problem? The point of a *multi*sync screen is that
it can sync to any resolution (within limits), surely?
--
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Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
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12:33 p.m.
Liam Proven wrote:
You'd think so, but I believe it actually works with a discrete sequence
of resolutions, and a continuous spectrum of frequencies.
Peace... Sridhar
The graphics
on this machine wouldn't be 1024x864?
If it is, then most multisync monitors will have trouble with it, no?
Why would that be a problem? The point of a *multi*sync screen is that
it can sync to any resolution (within limits), surely? 
12:47 p.m.
Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
You'd think so, but I believe it actually works
with a discrete sequence
of resolutions, and a continuous spectrum of frequencies.
"You have any choice of colors as long as it is black.[1]"
Ford on the model T?
Peace... Sridhar
[1] Australians got a greenish
color.
12:38 p.m.
Liam Proven wrote:
On 02/10/2007, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at
gmail.com> wrote:
BTW, if it's a GPX it's limited to 1024x864, and if it's an SPX, it can
do 1280x1024, which your multi-sync monitor should be capable of. I
might be remembering incorrectly, and if I am, someone please correct me.
Peace... Sridhar
The graphics on this machine wouldn't be
1024x864?
If it is, then most multisync monitors will have trouble with it, no?
Why would that be a problem? The point of a *multi*sync screen is that
it can sync to any resolution (within limits), surely? 
12:48 p.m.
On Tue, 2 Oct 2007, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:38:02 -0400
From: Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com>
Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
;
Subject: Re: Setting up a VAXstation
Liam Proven wrote:
SPX will do 1024x1280 I think at 66Hz and maybe 72 Hz with a crystal change.
Peter Wallace
On 02/10/2007, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at
gmail.com> wrote:
BTW, if it's a GPX it's limited to 1024x864, and if it's an SPX, it can do
1280x1024, which your multi-sync monitor should be capable of. I might be
remembering incorrectly, and if I am, someone please correct me.
Peace... Sridhar
The graphics on this machine wouldn't be
1024x864?
If it is, then most multisync monitors will have trouble with it, no?
Why would that be a problem? The point of a *multi*sync screen is that
it can sync to any resolution (within limits), surely?
1:45 p.m.
Peter C. Wallace wrote:
Yes, but I wasn't getting into refresh rates. The fact remains that the
GPX can't do anything other than 1024x864, which isn't well supported by
monitors.
Peace... Sridhar
BTW, if
it's a GPX it's limited to 1024x864, and if it's an SPX, it
can do 1280x1024, which your multi-sync monitor should be capable of.
I might be remembering incorrectly, and if I am, someone please
correct me.
SPX will do 1024x1280 I think at 66Hz and maybe 72 Hz with a crystal
change.
2:40 p.m.
On Tue, 2 Oct 2007, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 16:45:42 -0400
From: Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com>
Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
;
Subject: Re: Setting up a VAXstation
Peter C. Wallace wrote:
Yes, but I wasn't getting into refresh rates. The fact remains that the GPX
can't do anything other than 1024x864, which isn't well supported by
monitors.
Peace... Sridhar
Actually CRT monitors rarely care about resolution, only horizontal and
vertical frequencies. AFAICR GPX and the mono VR262 ends up being something
like 48 KHz horizontal (which is standard) and ~55 Hz vertical, which gives me
a headache but should be in range for any decent Multisync monitor.
For GPX and SPX, you do need a monitor that can do Sync On Green (SOG), For
example the Sony 400PS on my desk works fine with GPX output (got a VS2000
connected ATM)
Peter Wallace
BTW, if
it's a GPX it's limited to 1024x864, and if it's an SPX, it can do
1280x1024, which your multi-sync monitor should be capable of. I might be
remembering incorrectly, and if I am, someone please correct me.
SPX will do 1024x1280 I think at 66Hz and maybe 72 Hz with a crystal
change. 
11:26 p.m.
On Oct 2, 2007, at 3:38 PM, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
You're definitely correct about the GPX being 1024x864..
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Farewell Ophelia, 9/22/1991 - 7/25/2007
Why would that
be a problem? The point of a *multi*sync screen is
that
it can sync to any resolution (within limits), surely?
BTW, if it's a GPX it's limited to 1024x864, and if it's an SPX, it
can do 1280x1024, which your multi-sync monitor should be capable
of. I might be remembering incorrectly, and if I am, someone
please correct me.
12:59 p.m.
On 02/10/2007, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> wrote:
Actually, most multisync montiors will sync to a number of different scan
frequencies (corresponding to resolutions) but they won't sync to _any_
frequency in that range. Often, for example, capicitors are
electronically sqitched in and out in the horizontal output stage,
obviously a given capacitor is either in-circuit or not, So there's a
limited number of frequencies that stage will correctly work at.
-tony
The graphics on this machine wouldn't be
1024x864?
If it is, then most multisync monitors will have trouble with it, no?
Why would that be a problem? The point of a *multi*sync screen is that
it can sync to any resolution (within limits), surely?
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