27 Nov
2013
27 Nov
'13
5:08 p.m.
Evening,
Whilst I'm putting together a mouser order, I might as well order
EVERYTING i'll need...
With the PDP-11/23+, as I won't have the cabinet kit for it, does the
9-pin connector break out to standard RS-232 with baud rate configured via
switchblocks? There's two of 'em, which one is primary?
I'm assuming the pinout is documented in a manual somewhere as well,
correct?
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
27 Nov
27 Nov
5:34 p.m.
Hello Cory:
If I remember correctly the PDP-11/23+ serial port pinouts are the
same as on the DLV11-J and MXV11. I don't have it on me, so I'm not
going to list it. In terms of which port is the console port, and
which is the one you can hook a TU58 to (what, you want to use it a
second terminal? You crazy...). I don't know.
Cheers,
Christian
On 27 November 2013 20:08, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
Evening,
Whilst I'm putting together a mouser order, I might as well order
EVERYTING i'll need...
With the PDP-11/23+, as I won't have the cabinet kit for it, does the
9-pin connector break out to standard RS-232 with baud rate configured via
switchblocks? There's two of 'em, which one is primary?
I'm assuming the pinout is documented in a manual somewhere as well,
correct?
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
--
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.
6:34 p.m.
On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 08:34:16PM -0500, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
If I remember correctly the PDP-11/23+ serial port
pinouts are the
same as on the DLV11-J and MXV11.
If that's true (sounds right to me), then maybe this will be useful:
I did a tiny (practically free at OSH Park) PCB a while ago that adapts
10-pin ribbon cable to a DB25P (wired as DTE). It can work with a Berg
connector, or if you use a Harting 09181109622 IDC header (which crimps
directly to the cable and is much smaller than a header + connector) and
a NorComp 976-025-010R031 shell (made for ribbon cable -- I got both from
Mouser), then it fits neatly inside the DB25 shell.
It's not a cab kit (unless you do some metalwork and panel-mount the DB25)
but it works nicely. It has space for the current-limiting resistor that
DEC wants you to use for DTR, if you're bothering with DTR that is.
Photo / schematic / Gerbers are here:
http://www.dbit.com/wilson/dlvdb25/
John Wilson
D Bit
28 Nov
28 Nov
11:58 a.m.
If that's true (sounds right to me), then maybe this will be useful:
I did a tiny (practically free at OSH Park) PCB a while ago that adapts
10-pin ribbon cable to a DB25P (wired as DTE). It can work with a Berg
Unless you need to make a lot of them, I would have tought it was quicker
to crimp a ribbon cable to the Berg socket, splig the other ind into
individual wires and solder thsoe to the DB25 (or DE9) connecotr than to
etch and drill the PCB.
3:24 p.m.
On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 07:58:19PM +0000, Tony Duell wrote:
Unless you need to make a lot of them, I would have
tought it was quicker
to crimp a ribbon cable to the Berg socket, splig the other ind into
individual wires and solder thsoe to the DB25 (or DE9) connecotr than to
etch and drill the PCB.
I lost patience with making my own PCBs eons ago (and anyway where I live
these days has a septic tank which I'd rather not take risks with), and I
*hate* *hate* *hate* soldering split-up ribbon cable (the insulation melts
away too easily and the wire turns super brittle at just the wrong place).
Anyway OSH Park charges $1.3333/ea (in mults of three, but including postage),
and it's not as if I think my time and effort are worth much (believe me!)
but that's a pretty sweet deal so it's hard to turn down, especially since
the result isn't delicate at all.
I have a less pretty one (square board, doesn't fit inside the connector
housing) that's supposed to work for DL11s and KL8Es and hopefully some of the
sync boards too (it has a few jumpers) and has both DTE and DCE connectors, but
I haven't gotten around to setting up tests of the various scenarios (I made
them mainly because I have some DMV11s with no cab kits but I was hoping to
cover all cases).
John Wilson
D Bit
29 Nov
29 Nov
12:52 p.m.
On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 07:58:19PM +0000, Tony Duell wrote:
I've lost patience with trying to get others ot do satisfacotry work for
me...
When I was at Bristol, we catually set-up an in-ohuse CPB production
facilty (for up to double sided boards) because every PCB manufacturer we
rtried was useless. For multi-layer boards we got some amazing results.
Layers missing. Layers in the wrong order (it matters a lot when you are
tryign to put striplines between 2 ground planes. i think once even a
layer mirror-reversed. And the number of bad tracks...
I am sure they're a lot better now. But for small PCBs it's a lot quicker
ot make them yourself.
Unless you need to make a lot of them, I would
have tought it was quicker
to crimp a ribbon cable to the Berg socket, splig the other ind into
individual wires and solder thsoe to the DB25 (or DE9) connecotr than to
etch and drill the PCB.
I lost patience with making my own PCBs eons ago (and anyway where I live these days has a septic tank which I'd rather not
take risks with), and I
*hate* *hate* *hate* soldering split-up ribbon cable (the insulation melts
away too easily and the wire turns super brittle at just the wrong place).
I've never had this problem. I must have soldered several hundred such
cables...
-tony
1:45 p.m.
On Nov 29, 2013, at 3:52 PM, ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
FWIW, I've had good luck with pcb-pool, two flawless boards (one two layer, one four
layer). They can also provide solder paste stencils, which I will take them up on next
time. (Soldering TSSOP devices by hand is a nuisance, to put it mildly.)
paul
On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 07:58:19PM +0000, Tony Duell wrote:
I've lost patience with trying to get others ot do satisfacotry work for
me...
When I was at Bristol, we catually set-up an in-ohuse CPB production
facilty (for up to double sided boards) because every PCB manufacturer we
rtried was useless. For multi-layer boards we got some amazing results.
Layers missing. Layers in the wrong order (it matters a lot when you are
tryign to put striplines between 2 ground planes. i think once even a
layer mirror-reversed. And the number of bad tracks? Unless you need to make a lot of them, I would
have tought it was quicker
to crimp a ribbon cable to the Berg socket, splig the other ind into
individual wires and solder thsoe to the DB25 (or DE9) connecotr than to
etch and drill the PCB.
I lost patience with making my own PCBs eons ago (and anyway where I live
2:32 p.m.
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 08:52:17PM +0000, Tony Duell wrote:
I've lost patience with trying to get others ot do
satisfacotry work for
me...
I think the fact that no one is seriously messing with wads of photoplot
film any more has made a huge difference. I've been getting really beautiful
boards back from OSH Park, with no mistakes so far. batchpcb.com was OK too
(until they went insane and broke their web site and refused to fix it because
they were so proud of the "upgrade") and even the no-name eBay guys in China
do decent work (maybe less perfect alignment but still perfectly usable).
Also, I don't know how to do plated-through holes at home, and my home
attempts at doing my own solder mask were no fun at all. Lately I'm doing
mostly SMT so the mask is vital -- SMT stencils make life a lot easier but
the paste still melts into tiny pools when the heat comes on so it's up to
the mask to make it ball up and go back where it belongs.
When I was at Bristol, we catually set-up an in-ohuse
CPB production
facilty ^^^^^^^^
I read the typo as "casually" the first time, which I like better! :-)
I am sure they're a lot better now. But for small
PCBs it's a lot quicker
ot make them yourself.
No vias, no mask, non-critical outline, city sewer: sure.
John Wilson
D Bit
15 Dec
15 Dec
8:49 a.m.
On 11/27/13 6:34 PM, John Wilson wrote:
If that's true (sounds right to me), then maybe
this will be useful:
I did a tiny (practically free at OSH Park) PCB a while ago that adapts
10-pin ribbon cable to a DB25P (wired as DTE).
Was anyone going to have any of these made up?
John, do you have any right now?
I'm getting tired of making them by hand.
12:08 p.m.
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 08:49:39AM -0800, Al Kossow wrote:
I have a couple left, which you're welcome to. And I'd be up for ordering
a bunch more just to have around, so let me know if you want to add to that.
John Wilson
D Bit
I did a tiny
(practically free at OSH Park) PCB a while ago that adapts
10-pin ribbon cable to a DB25P (wired as DTE).
Was anyone going to have any of these made up?
John, do you have any right now? 
27 Nov
27 Nov
5:39 p.m.
On Nov 27, 2013, at 20:08, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
Evening,
Whilst I'm putting together a mouser order, I might as well order
EVERYTING i'll need...
With the PDP-11/23+, as I won't have the cabinet kit for it, does the
9-pin connector break out to standard RS-232 with baud rate configured via
switchblocks? There's two of 'em, which one is primary?
I'm assuming the pinout is documented in a manual somewhere as well,
correct?
The pinout and arrangement of ports is documented in the KDF11-B
manual. You can use regular 9-pin PC-style DE9 serial connectors
(the kind you'd use for an AT-style PC), but you'll need to rewire
the pins at the backshell. The bright side is that you only need
3 pins (Rx, Tx and ground). I keep a few in both DE9 and DB25
flavors, DTE and DCE wired, hanging around since it's a common
pin out to lots if DEC oriented stuff. Just mark which ones are
DEC-style with a Sharpie on the ribbon cable.
- Dave
6:50 p.m.
On Thu, 28 Nov 2013, David Riley wrote:
On Nov 27, 2013, at 20:08, Cory Smelosky <b4 at
gewt.net> wrote:
That's what I was figuring. Those should be simple to find at Mouser.
Evening,
Whilst I'm putting together a mouser order, I might as well order
EVERYTING i'll need...
With the PDP-11/23+, as I won't have the cabinet kit for it, does the
9-pin connector break out to standard RS-232 with baud rate configured via
switchblocks? There's two of 'em, which one is primary?
I'm assuming the pinout is documented in a manual somewhere as well,
correct?
The pinout and arrangement of ports is documented in the KDF11-B
manual. You can use regular 9-pin PC-style DE9 serial connectors
(the kind you'd use for an AT-style PC), but you'll need to rewire
the pins at the backshell. The bright side is that you only need
3 pins (Rx, Tx and ground). I keep a few in both DE9 and DB25
flavors, DTE and DCE wired, hanging around since it's a common
pin out to lots if DEC oriented stuff. Just mark which ones are
DEC-style with a Sharpie on the ribbon cable.
- Dave
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
8:18 p.m.
On Nov 27, 2013, at 22:09, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
On the KDF11-B, Tx is only single-ended. Rx is differential, but
appears to have a pulldown to ground (at least mine does)
and seems to be pretty happy with Rx- left open; can't guarantee
that other, similar serial connections will be as happy. I usually tie
Rx- to ground to be safe.
- Dave
On 11/27/13 5:39 PM, David Riley wrote:
The bright side is that you only need
3 pins (Rx, Tx and ground).
Don't forget rx and tx are actually differential receivers and
drivers. Tie rx- (7) to ground (9) on the 10 pin connector.
28 Nov
28 Nov
7:02 a.m.
On Nov 27, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
On 11/27/13 5:39 PM, David Riley wrote:
I'm puzzled. RS232 is single ended, not differential. It does need a ground
reference, of course, so you have to make sure the signal ground wire is connected
properly.
paul
The bright side is that you only need
3 pins (Rx, Tx and ground).
Don't forget rx and tx are actually differential receivers and
drivers. Tie rx- (7) to ground (9) on the 10 pin connector.
7:08 a.m.
On 28 November 2013 10:02, Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
I'm puzzled. RS232 is single ended, not
differential. It does need a ground reference, of course, so you have to make sure the
signal ground wire is connected properly.
paul
If I recall correctly, the PDP-11 those 9-pin header serial ports on
the '11 are able to do RS-422 and RS-423 on the DLV11-J; don't know
about on the MXV11 or KDF11-B.
Cheers,
Christian
--
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.
7:22 a.m.
On Nov 28, 2013, at 10:08 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove <captainkirk359 at
gmail.com> wrote:
On 28 November 2013 10:02, Paul Koning <paulkoning
at comcast.net> wrote:
Ok, that fits. RS422 is differential (and RS423 is the single ended variant of that
standard). I forgot the details, but I remember encountering them in the DMC-11 or
DMV-11.
paul
I'm puzzled. RS232 is single ended, not
differential. It does need a ground reference, of course, so you have to make sure the
signal ground wire is connected properly.
paul
If I recall correctly, the PDP-11 those 9-pin header serial ports on
the '11 are able to do RS-422 and RS-423 on the DLV11-J; don't know
about on the MXV11 or KDF11-B. 
9:52 a.m.
If I recall correctly, the PDP-11 those 9-pin header
serial ports on
the '11 are able to do RS-422 and RS-423 on the DLV11-J; don't know
about on the MXV11 or KDF11-B.
They're almost all the same. All three have a differential receiver
pair, external clock line, and +12V on the same pins. On the DLV11-J,
the transmit is differential with pin 3 being TX+ and 4 being TX-. On
the MXV11 and KDF11-B, pin 4 is a ground, but of course feeding TX+
and GND into a differential receiver will work, so you still get
support for both RS-422 and RS-423 signaling.
BLS
7:21 a.m.
On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 7:02 AM, Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
On Nov 27, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
Some standard PDP-11 SLU interface supports RS-422 differential signaling.
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/qbus
EB-23144-18_QbusIntrfs_1983.pdf
See manual page 266 (PDF page 276) and manual pages 285-286 (PDF pages
295 -296) for an example of how this works on the DLV11-J.
The M8189 PDP-11/23 SLU interface is similar.
Don't forget rx and tx are actually differential receivers and
drivers. Tie rx- (7) to ground (9) on the 10 pin connector.
I'm puzzled. RS232 is single ended, not differential. It does need a ground
reference, of course, so you have to make sure the signal ground wire is connected
properly.
3977
days inactive
3994
days old
18 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
b4＠gewt.net -
blstuart＠bellsouth.net -
captainkirk359＠gmail.com -
fraveydank＠gmail.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
wilson＠dbit.com