27 Dec
2018
27 Dec
'18
5:12 p.m.
Hi friends,
I've been building up a nice little PDP-11/23+ with cabinets, RL02's etc. To
really round things off, I'm looking for a open reel-to-reel style 9-track tape drive
to add to the system (don't ask why, punishment must be somewhere in my nature). Not
interested in the autoloading/drawer type drives.
There are some fujitsu drives on ebay at the moment, but shipping from CA to NY is both
costly and risky.
Does anyone have a (preferably working) 9-track drive that can be used with a PDP-11 (like
a pertec interface) for sale? Willing to drive anywhere from Philly to Boston for one.
Hopefully one in good shape.
Thanks
73 Eugene W2HX
27 Dec
27 Dec
5:46 p.m.
On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 9:17 AM W2HX via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I've been building up a nice little PDP-11/23+ with cabinets, RL02's etc. To
really round things off, I'm looking for a open reel-to-reel style 9-track tape drive
to add to the system (don't ask why, punishment must be somewhere in my nature). Not
interested in the autoloading/drawer type drives.
There are some fujitsu drives on ebay at the moment, but shipping from CA to NY is both
costly and risky.
Does anyone have a (preferably working) 9-track drive that can be used with a PDP-11
(like a pertec interface) for sale? Willing to drive anywhere from Philly to Boston for
one.
If you can find a Fujitsu M2444AC within driving distance that is a
good option. The cache buffer in the drive can prevent a lot of
start/stop action with a slower host. I have used one to install
2.11BSD and RSTS/E 10.1 on PDP-11 systems with Pertec controller
boards. But at somewhere around 200 pounds they are not something you
want to ship.
6:02 p.m.
On 12/27/18 9:46 AM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 9:17 AM W2HX via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
If you;re only interested in 1600 PE and 6250 GCR, the Fuji drive is a
great choice--well-constructed and easy to operate. Yes, it is pretty
heavy, but in the universe of open-reel tape drives, it's a
featherweight. Not sure about 200 lbs, though. I managed to get mine
off a pickup truck bed onto a dolly, up a short flight of stairs and
into a 6' rack single-handedly.
Maybe I was just lucky or stupid.
--Chuck
I've been building up a nice little PDP-11/23+ with cabinets, RL02's etc. To
really round things off, I'm looking for a open reel-to-reel style 9-track tape drive
to add to the system (don't ask why, punishment must be somewhere in my nature). Not
interested in the autoloading/drawer type drives.
There are some fujitsu drives on ebay at the moment, but shipping from CA to NY is both
costly and risky.
Does anyone have a (preferably working) 9-track drive that can be used with a PDP-11
(like a pertec interface) for sale? Willing to drive anywhere from Philly to Boston for
one.
If you can find a Fujitsu M2444AC within driving distance that is a
good option. The cache buffer in the drive can prevent a lot of
start/stop action with a slower host. I have used one to install
2.11BSD and RSTS/E 10.1 on PDP-11 systems with Pertec controller
boards. But at somewhere around 200 pounds they are not something you
want to ship.
6:32 p.m.
On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 10:02 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
If you;re only interested in 1600 PE and 6250 GCR, the Fuji drive is a
great choice--well-constructed and easy to operate. Yes, it is pretty
heavy, but in the universe of open-reel tape drives, it's a
featherweight. Not sure about 200 lbs, though. I managed to get mine
off a pickup truck bed onto a dolly, up a short flight of stairs and
into a 6' rack single-handedly.
I have moved Fujitsu M2444AC drives in and out of racks and up and
down stairs a couple of times by myself and it has always been a bit
of a challenge without some sort of lift. Wasn't bad getting one in
the van with two people.
Table 1.2 Physical Specifications of this manual says 90 kg / 198
pounds for a bare M2444AC outside of a rack:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/fujitsu/tape/B03P-5325-0100A_02B_M244X_Series_…
If you want something that can easily be shipped and moved around one
option is a Qualstar 1052. I wasn't impressed with the quality and
performance of those. I gave away the ones I had. They do 1600 (and
3200), but not 6250.
6:36 p.m.
On 12/27/18 10:32 AM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
Table 1.2 Physical Specifications of this manual says
90 kg / 198
pounds for a bare M2444AC outside of a rack:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/fujitsu/tape/B03P-5325-0100A_02B_M244X_Series_…
since we're talking about 2444's, does anyone have the schematics for one?
the service manual I scanned didn't have them and someone is desperately trying to
find them
6:53 p.m.
On 12/27/18 10:32 AM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
If you want something that can easily be shipped and
moved around one
option is a Qualstar 1052. I wasn't impressed with the quality and
performance of those. I gave away the ones I had. They do 1600 (and
3200), but not 6250.
The 1260 (or later) will do 6250, but I can't recommend it--it isn't
terribly good at reading tapes that the Fuji does fine on. I suspect a
couple of reasons for this--the transport mechanism itself and the very
low speed at 6250 (less induced EMF in the head).
If that's not important, it is pretty lightweight and comes in a SCSI
version as well.
--Chuck
7:18 p.m.
On 12/27/18 10:53 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
The 1260 (or later) will do 6250, but I can't
recommend it--it isn't
terribly good at reading tapes that the Fuji does fine on. I suspect a
couple of reasons for this--the transport mechanism itself and the very
low speed at 6250 (less induced EMF in the head).
that's what we found as well trying to use it on GCR. not enough signal output
28 Dec
28 Dec
6:46 p.m.
On 12/27/2018 1:53 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 12/27/18 10:32 AM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
I have a Qualstar 1260 (Pertec Interface) and connected it to a
PDP-11/23 with an Emulex TC02.? It was fun to see it spin the tape and
read/write data.? I could just imagine what torture it was to collect
data or install operating systems that way.
Anyway, that's what it took for me to get the PDP-11 tape fever out of
my system.? I think under RT-11 the tape was an MS: device.? If you
could dig up a DEC TU80 drive it has a pertec interface and open rack
space for a BA23 box.
Doug
If you want something that can easily be shipped
and moved around one
option is a Qualstar 1052. I wasn't impressed with the quality and
performance of those. I gave away the ones I had. They do 1600 (and
3200), but not 6250.
The 1260 (or later) will do 6250, but I can't recommend
it--it isn't
terribly good at reading tapes that the Fuji does fine on. I suspect a
couple of reasons for this--the transport mechanism itself and the very
low speed at 6250 (less induced EMF in the head).
If that's not important, it is pretty lightweight and comes in a SCSI
version as well.
--Chuck
7:15 p.m.
On 12/28/18 10:46 AM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote:
I have a Qualstar 1260 (Pertec Interface) and
connected it to a
PDP-11/23 with an Emulex TC02.? It was fun to see it spin the tape and
read/write data.? I could just imagine what torture it was to collect
data or install operating systems that way.
Didn't seem like torture back in the day. If you were in systems
development, it was a convenient way to test various
configurations--just grab the right tape and IPL/Deadstart/Boot from it.
In fact, disk storage was initially meant to be "working store", not
storage for masses of data. If a disk drive crashed (and they did),
you had the more reliable tape. If you were the systems type, you
probably had a stash of your own tapes in your office.
I can remember hopping the "noon balloon" out of San Jose with a large
Samsonite briefcase full of tapes (you could carry 6 reels in it; I
still have the case. It was often the best and least expensive way to
get a mass of sensitive data cross-country.
Anyone remember 7090 IBSYS or FMS? TOS/360?
--Chuck
10:57 p.m.
On Fri, 28 Dec 2018, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
I can remember hopping the "noon balloon"
out of San Jose with a large
Samsonite briefcase full of tapes (you could carry 6 reels in it; I
still have the case. It was often the best and least expensive way to
get a mass of sensitive data cross-country.
But, not quite as much bandwidth as a station wagon full of tapes hurtling
down the highway.
29 Dec
29 Dec
12:03 a.m.
On 12/28/18 2:57 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
But, not quite as much bandwidth as a station wagon
full of tapes
hurtling down the highway.
I once rode on an USAF general's jet with a load of 844 packs. That
probably was pretty good bandwidth for the time...
One thing that escapes many who have never "been there" is that tape is
*cheap* compared to other forms of storage for the same time.
Government, institutions and corporations didn't just buy them by the
pallet-load; they bought them by the truckload.
Another thing often not considered is that open-reel tape is extremely
durable. Use a reel for a year or two, have it cleaned and recertified,
and you're off and running. Usually, during the process, the tapes got
shorter, as they tended to wear more at the beginning of the reel.
Discard the dicey section, put on a new BOT marker and you're good for
another year or two. A five-to-ten year working life on a reel of tape
was not unusual at all.
Let's see you do that with your LTO carts!
--Chuck
1:31 p.m.
At 06:03 PM 12/28/2018, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
Let's see you do that with your LTO carts!
I suppose we could do the math if we had enough data about the
reliability of each. There's more bytes in the LTO basket,
but a lot more baskets needed if you want to store the same
amount of data on 9-tracks.
- John
5:10 p.m.
On 12/29/18 5:31 AM, John Foust via cctalk wrote:
At 06:03 PM 12/28/2018, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
My point was more about the longevity and the reusability of the medium
as wore with use.
LTOs (or any streaming medium) aren't used in the same way that
open-reel tapes were back in the day--as a working storage medium.
Today, streaming media is mostly used for backup.
--Chuck
Let's see you do that with your LTO carts!
I suppose we could do the math if we had enough data about the
reliability of each. There's more bytes in the LTO basket,
but a lot more baskets needed if you want to store the same
amount of data on 9-tracks. 
27 Dec
27 Dec
7:23 p.m.
On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 11:17 AM W2HX via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Does anyone have a (preferably working) 9-track drive
that can be used with a PDP-11 (like a pertec interface) for sale? Willing to drive
anywhere from Philly to Boston for one.
A bit out of your range, but if we can figure out transport, I have an
AT&T-badged HP 9-track, with Pertec interface, that I've been trying
to unload for years (they're heavy!) It's yours if we can move it.
It's clean and powers up and gets through self-test. I have not had a
compatible machine to actually read a tape on.
I'm in 60070, near Chicago.
-j
7:30 p.m.
On Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 13:23 Jason T via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org wrote:
On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 11:17 AM W2HX via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org wrote:
Hi Jason!
If this goes unclaimed, I'd be happy to give it a home. I've been trying to
find a time to get a few things from Jack Rubin too; not sure when that
will be yet. Probably after VCF SE.
I have a bunch of tapes from some Harris minicomputer that I'd like to
digitize at some point. I finally got around to digitizing the paper tapes.
Thanks!
Kyle
Does anyone have a (preferably working) 9-track
drive that can be used
with a PDP-11 (like a pertec interface) for sale? Willing to
drive anywhere
from Philly to Boston for one.
A bit out of your range, but if we can figure out transport, I have an
AT&T-badged HP 9-track, with Pertec interface, that I've been trying
to unload for years (they're heavy!) It's yours if we can move it.
It's clean and powers up and gets through self-test. I have not had a
compatible machine to actually read a tape on.
I'm in 60070, near Chicago.
9:21 p.m.
On 12/27/18 11:30 AM, Kyle Owen via cctalk wrote:
I have a bunch of tapes from some Harris minicomputer
that I'd like to
digitize at some point. I finally got around to digitizing the paper tapes.
Slash 6 or one of the other 24-bit machines they made?
any of the tapes for the OS (Vulcan?)
I recovered some tapes that were salvaged from the material indirectly from Aachen
guess I should put the up on bitsavers
There was a significant amt of documentation from the machine which apparently
ran at the Free University of Berlin. Guess I should finish that as well. There
was most of a listing of the OS
28 Dec
28 Dec
6:50 p.m.
New subject: Harris Mini's (was: WTD: 9 track open reel for PDP-11)
On Dec 27, 2018, at 11:30 AM, Kyle Owen via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I have a bunch of tapes from some Harris minicomputer that I'd like to
digitize at some point. I finally got around to digitizing the paper tapes.
Thanks!
Kyle
Any clues on what? In the late 80?s I used a Harris Mini.
It would be cool to see someone do an emulator for them. Especially if copies of Zork and
the Star Trek games exist (there was a Star Trek game that was different than the
standard).
Zane
9:19 p.m.
New subject: Harris Mini's (was: WTD: 9 track open reel for PDP-11)
I almost remembered, had to look it up to confirm 81, the 48bit system
they carried on when they bought the original company that had made
them and the Vulcan OS. Not a bad scientific and instrumentation
machine. What was the original company Datacraft or something?
bob
On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 3:47 PM Zane Healy via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Dec 27, 2018, at 11:30 AM, Kyle Owen via
cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I have a bunch of tapes from some Harris minicomputer that I'd like to
digitize at some point. I finally got around to digitizing the paper tapes.
Thanks!
Kyle
Any clues on what? In the late 80?s I used a Harris Mini.
It would be cool to see someone do an emulator for them. Especially if copies of Zork
and the Star Trek games exist (there was a Star Trek game that was different than the
standard).
Zane
9:33 p.m.
New subject: Harris Mini's (was: WTD: 9 track open reel for PDP-11)
I didn?t realize they were 48-bit, though I seem to remember them being 24-bit. The
system I used was more ?logistics? and general purpose ADP. I spent a *LOT* of time using
the MUSE word processor.
Zane
On Dec 28, 2018, at 1:19 PM, Bob Smith <bobsmithofd
at gmail.com> wrote:
I almost remembered, had to look it up to confirm 81, the 48bit system
they carried on when they bought the original company that had made
them and the Vulcan OS. Not a bad scientific and instrumentation
machine. What was the original company Datacraft or something?
bob
On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 3:47 PM Zane Healy via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>
>> On Dec 27, 2018, at 11:30 AM, Kyle Owen via cctalk <cctalk at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>> I have a bunch of tapes from some Harris minicomputer that I'd like to
>> digitize at some point. I finally got around to digitizing the paper tapes.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Kyle
>
> Any clues on what? In the late 80?s I used a Harris Mini.
>
> It would be cool to see someone do an emulator for them. Especially if copies of
Zork and the Star Trek games exist (there was a Star Trek game that was different than the
standard).
>
> Zane
>
>
>
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