11 Oct
2012
11 Oct
'12
10:15 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: <cctalk-request at classiccmp.org>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 6:14 PM
Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 110, Issue 24
----- Reply:
As a matter of fact I see a fair bit of that on this list as well, by the
same group of regulars: stereotypical judgement and blaming of OUTSIDERS,
i.e. ignorant 'lusers' who don't know or care how their computers work, the
intricacies of TCP/IP or their operating system, who top post, use M$
software, etc. etc., and are perhaps busy running businesses, performing
brain operations, whatever, instead...
And Dave is of course implying that he's NOT a member of the group he's
disparaging; after all, HE knows that they speak Portuguese in Brazil!
As a matter of fact he is in fact echoing and defending the stereotypical
view of "people in other countries," i.e. OUTSIDERS... (and thus perhaps
even offending some of "them" ;-)
So, it's OK to insult and offend members of a certain group with this sort
of stereotypical judgement as long as you yourself are a member of that
group (albeit presumably one of the exceptions who doesn't fit the
stereotype...)?
As long as I'm an African-American myself it's OK for me to say "yeah, we
really are inferior somehow, and there's a REASON why folks believe that
about us"?
In that case I do apologize; I naively thought that derogatory stereotypes
were sort of inappropriate regardless of the source.
m
BTW, I have a Brazilian girlfriend, so I not only know that one speaks
Portuguese there but I'm also intimately acquainted with the Brazilian wax
look...
Message: 29
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 22:14:27 +0000 (UTC)
From: Alexey Toptygin <alexeyt at freeshell.org>
Lots of folks
like you also believe that there are REASONS why people
have
the opinions they do about Jews, Mexicans, Muslims, people with black
skins
or blond hair, etc. etc...
Precious irony... ;-)
That was totally uncalled for. Dave was describing a sterotype about a
group OF WHICH HE IS A MEMBER, you are comparing him to racists who blame
all the worlds problems on a group of OUTSIDERS. This is completely
different. I think you need to apologise.
Alexey 
11 Oct
11 Oct
11 p.m.
On 10/11/2012 10:15 PM, MikeS wrote:
Alexey is right, I was also speaking of myself. I USED TO BE a member
of that group, and to an extent I still am...but less so than I used to be.
I was mortified when it finally dawned on me just how clueless I was,
and it wasn't all that long ago. Say about six years...when I started
dating Columbian woman. I spent about two years with her. That
experience really humbled me, and I was deeply embarrassed by what I
didn't know. I made it a point to learn all I could from her and her
friends. It was an eye-opening experience.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
That was
totally uncalled for. Dave was describing a sterotype about a
group OF WHICH HE IS A MEMBER, you are comparing him to racists who blame
all the worlds problems on a group of OUTSIDERS. This is completely
different. I think you need to apologise.
Alexey
----- Reply:
As a matter of fact I see a fair bit of that on this list as well, by the
same group of regulars: stereotypical judgement and blaming of OUTSIDERS,
i.e. ignorant 'lusers' who don't know or care how their computers work, the
intricacies of TCP/IP or their operating system, who top post, use M$
software, etc. etc., and are perhaps busy running businesses, performing
brain operations, whatever, instead...
And Dave is of course implying that he's NOT a member of the group he's
disparaging; after all, HE knows that they speak Portuguese in Brazil!
As a matter of fact he is in fact echoing and defending the stereotypical
view of "people in other countries," i.e. OUTSIDERS... (and thus perhaps
even offending some of "them" ;-) 
12 Oct
12 Oct
3 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: MikeS <dm561 at torfree.net>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Cc:
Sent: Friday, 12 October 2012 10:15 AM
Subject: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
----- Original Message ----- From: <cctalk-request at classiccmp.org>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 6:14 PM
Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 110, Issue 24
----- Reply:
As a matter of fact I see a fair bit of that on this list as well, by the
same group of regulars: stereotypical judgement and blaming of OUTSIDERS,
i.e. ignorant 'lusers' who don't know or care how their computers
work, the
intricacies of TCP/IP or their operating system, who top post, use M$
software, etc. etc., and are perhaps busy running businesses, performing
brain operations, whatever, instead...
I do bash:
Apple fanboys: the products they worship are overpriced sh*t
MS windows fanboys: think there stuff is the best thing since sliced bread
I have be a member of both groups,
I have seen the light (and no I am not a linux/ubuntu fanboy[1])
I am a quad-platform user (ubuntu/linux/android, amigaOS, MS DOS[2], Windows)
PS: why cant you scroll down to the bottom of the message and type there?
[1] I do have some ubuntu fanboy aspects to me, but its only to sate there is alternative
operating system that dose not cost an arm and a leg
[2] soon to include CP/M
tom
Message: 29
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 22:14:27 +0000 (UTC)
From: Alexey Toptygin <alexeyt at freeshell.org>
Lots of
folks like you also believe that there are REASONS why people
have
the opinions they do about Jews, Mexicans, Muslims, people with black
skins
or blond hair, etc. etc...
Precious irony... ;-)
That was totally uncalled for. Dave was describing a sterotype about a
group OF WHICH HE IS A MEMBER, you are comparing him to racists who blame
all the worlds problems on a group of OUTSIDERS. This is completely
different. I think you need to apologise.
? Alexey 
3:12 a.m.
heh i just use what ever i feel like
On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 2:00 AM, Tom Sparks <tom_a_sparks at yahoo.com.au>wrote:
----- Original Message -----
I do bash:
Apple fanboys: the products they worship are overpriced sh*t
MS windows fanboys: think there stuff is the best thing since sliced bread
I have be a member of both groups,
I have seen the light (and no I am not a linux/ubuntu fanboy[1])
I am a quad-platform user (ubuntu/linux/android, amigaOS, MS DOS[2],
Windows)
PS: why cant you scroll down to the bottom of the message and type there?
[1] I do have some ubuntu fanboy aspects to me, but its only to sate there
is alternative operating system that dose not cost an arm and a leg
[2] soon to include CP/M
tom
From: MikeS <dm561 at torfree.net>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Cc:
Sent: Friday, 12 October 2012 10:15 AM
Subject: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
----- Original Message ----- From: <cctalk-request at classiccmp.org>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 6:14 PM
Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 110, Issue 24
blame
Message: 29
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 22:14:27 +0000 (UTC)
From: Alexey Toptygin <alexeyt at freeshell.org>
>> Lots of folks like you also believe that there are REASONS why people
>> have
>> the opinions they do about Jews, Mexicans, Muslims, people with black
>> skins
>> or blond hair, etc. etc...
>>
>> Precious irony... ;-)
>
> That was totally uncalled for. Dave was describing a sterotype about a
> group OF WHICH HE IS A MEMBER, you are comparing him to racists who all the
worlds problems on a group of OUTSIDERS. This is completely
different. I think you need to apologise.
Alexey
----- Reply:
As a matter of fact I see a fair bit of that on this list as well, by the
same group of regulars: stereotypical judgement and blaming of OUTSIDERS,
i.e. ignorant 'lusers' who don't know or care how their computers
work, the
intricacies of TCP/IP or their operating system, who top post, use M$
software, etc. etc., and are perhaps busy running businesses, performing
brain operations, whatever, instead...
3:43 a.m.
three reasons.
Many mailing lists add a large amount of advertising / skred to the
bottom of postings. Messing with it causes html posting of the message
to explode. So posting at the top where it is clear means I don't see
the crap or unleash it on the thread.
most email clients seem to default to top posting of replies. I use a
large number of them both programs and web based. It isn't worth
fighting it. This list drew a top posting of replies by Thunderbird.
For most threads, I don' t need to scroll past all the replies if I'm
following the thread. I can see what I'm replying to when discussing
things. Only when I want to post something detailed and usually when
that involves copy / pasting I'll clear the skred off the bottom of the
post if it is possible and try to compose a formatted reply with the
posted data there. Otherwise I post at the top.
On 10/12/2012 12:00 AM, Tom Sparks wrote:
PS: why cant you scroll down to the bottom of the
message and type there?
9:42 a.m.
On Fri, 12 Oct 2012, jim s wrote:
On 10/12/2012 12:00 AM, Tom Sparks wrote:
That certainly isn't a problem with this email list.
PS: why cant you scroll down to the bottom of the
message and type
there?
three reasons.
Many mailing lists add a large amount of advertising / skred to the
bottom of postings. Messing with it causes html posting of the message to
explode.
Only if the email client itself is poorly designed and/or broken. Out of
the 30 or so lists that I'm a member of, including a lot of old eGroups
(now Yahoo) lists, I also don't recall ever having this problem with any
of them.
So posting at the top where it is clear means I
don't see the crap or
unleash it on the thread.
...but then said "crap" is still being sent out across the listserv
instead of being trimmed away...
most email clients seem to default to top posting of
replies. I use a
large number of them both programs and web based.
I wouldn't say most. /Some,/ but not all default to doing so, but every
single email client or service that I'm familiar with can be configured to
start the reply either before -or- after the quoted message (although
sometimes you have to really dig to find the setting). Some clients even
give you the option of not quoting any of the message you are replying to.
It isn't worth fighting it. This list drew a top
posting of replies by
Thunderbird.
I reformat these top-post messages and reply in-line. I can't see how a
proper reply could be written without doing so.
For most threads, I don' t need to scroll past all
the replies if I'm
following the thread.
The underlying issue is that replies should reformat and trim the material
to what is being replied to, then no one has to scroll past stuff that
isn't relevant.
I can see what I'm replying to when discussing
things.
Except it makes it harder for others to follow the discussion thread.
Only when I want to post something detailed and
usually when that
involves copy / pasting I'll clear the skred off the bottom of the post
if it is possible and try to compose a formatted reply with the posted
data there. Otherwise I post at the top.
I think those with a Usenet background tend to be the ones who quote
in-line.
All that said, if you think replying to some of these long email threads
is difficult, try being involved in some of the large discussions on
Wikipedia where you can't top-post or make in-lined replies. In those sort
of discussions, nesting/quoting levels, blockquotes, and clearly defined
sections become incredibly important, at least if you want people to read
what you have to say.
12:55 p.m.
PS: why cant
you scroll down to the bottom of the message and type
there?
three reasons. 
1:11 p.m.
On 10/12/12 11:55 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
"'e-mail' is bottom posting, plain text,
poor spellinq, and insufficient
trimming of the old crap, which is set off by chevrons.
'email' is top posting, colors, background wallpaper, pictures and sounds
with dancing kangaroos and yodelling jellyfish, NO attempt too even try
spelin, and NO trimming at all ever of the old crap, all of which has
they're own dancing kangaroos."
Now you've done it.
From now on, instead of chevrons I'm using the Drunk Baby GIF as my
quote character. Properly nested, of course.
Doc
1:27 p.m.
"'e-mail' is bottom posting, plain text, poor spellinq, and insufficient
trimming of the old crap, which is set off by chevrons.
'email' is top posting, colors, background wallpaper, pictures and sounds
with dancing kangaroos and yodelling jellyfish, NO attempt too even try
spelin, and NO trimming at all ever of the old crap, all of which has
they're own dancing kangaroos."
Now you've done it. 
3 p.m.
On 10/12/2012 1:11 PM, Doc wrote:
On 10/12/12 11:55 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
"yodelling jellyfish".....? need more data.... google was NOT helpful
"'e-mail' is bottom posting, plain
text, poor spellinq, and insufficient
trimming of the old crap, which is set off by chevrons.
'email' is top posting, colors, background wallpaper, pictures and
sounds
with dancing kangaroos and yodelling jellyfish, NO attempt too even try
spelin, and NO trimming at all ever of the old crap, all of which has
they're own dancing kangaroos."
Now you've done it.
From now on, instead of chevrons I'm using the Drunk Baby GIF as my
quote character. Properly nested, of course.
Doc
13 Oct
13 Oct
12:01 a.m.
>> with dancing kangaroos and yodelling
jellyfish,
On Fri, 12 Oct 2012, steve shumaker wrote:
"yodelling jellyfish".....? need more
data.... google was NOT helpful
I've noticed that. It does not seem to have yet appeared in anything that
Google has indexed! Nevertheless, I have heard several old farts (who do
NOT know each other, but obviously have some associates in common), who
have used "dancing kangaroos and yodelling jellyfish" as a phrase to
ridicule superfluous "decoration" of text.
I can imagine the dancing kangaroos, but I have no idea what a yod3elling
jellyfish looks or sounds like!
It is certainly not the first, nor only phrase that I've heard that I
can't find in Google.
For example, at GSFC 45 years ago, there were frequent references to
"Friden Waltz and Marchand March", which were specific arithmetic
calculations that you could start and they would run for a long, extended,
and noisy time. "so you can close the door of your office and take a nap,
and managers will hear that you are hard at work". But can anybody
identify those specific calculations?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
12 Oct
12 Oct
3:33 p.m.
On 12 October 2012 17:55, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
Uncle Charlie pointed out that in differentiating "e-mail" V
"email",
the hyphen, and the evolution over the years that accompanied the dropping
of the hyphen means:
"'e-mail' is bottom posting, plain text, poor spellinq, and insufficient
trimming of the old crap, which is set off by chevrons.
'email' is top posting, colors, background wallpaper, pictures and sounds
with dancing kangaroos and yodelling jellyfish, NO attempt too even try
spelin, and NO trimming at all ever of the old crap, all of which has
they're own dancing kangaroos."
Love it. Paraphrased and blogged.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
9:58 a.m.
On Thu, 11 Oct 2012, MikeS wrote:
As a matter of fact I see a fair bit of that on this
list as well, by
the same group of regulars: stereotypical judgement and blaming of
OUTSIDERS, i.e. ignorant 'lusers' who don't know or care how their
computers work, the intricacies of TCP/IP or their operating system, who
top post, use M$ software, etc. etc., and are perhaps busy running
businesses, performing brain operations, whatever, instead...
...or those who use "peecees"*, etc? ;)
For many I think it just boils down to frustration with the signal to
noise ratio and not wanting to have to wade through a bunch of material
which either has no applicability to the email list as a whole and/or
material that they simply find uninteresting.
*Often used on this email list in reference to IBM PC compatible clones.
[Yes, I use and even /collect/ some types of technologically interesting
PCs, so what of it? I also hunt for and rebuild old UNIX workstations and
servers, and even have a large collection of TRS-80 systems.]
4301
days inactive
4302
days old
13 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dm561＠torfree.net -
doc＠vaxen.net -
jws＠jwsss.com -
lproven＠gmail.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
shumaker＠att.net -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
tdk.knight＠gmail.com -
tom_a_sparks＠yahoo.com.au -
tothwolf＠concentric.net