Dear friends, Yesterday I got a SDK-86 as a gift from a friend. It was well used, and stored in a damp and dirty place. I disassembled mostly of it, washed the board, disassembled the keys, washed the keycaps, and it is looking like new :o) I'm building a page about that, but I'd like to ask some questions... - What documentation came with it? And what is avaiable? I have the 9800697/698/699 manuals avaiable on bitsavers, but is there something else? - Can I link the documents on bitsavers on my page? I don't have that much space on my server and, although I like to keep a duplicate copy of the documents online, I just can't at this moment. - In the kit, what kind of sockets came with it? I see most sockets are Texas Instruments, but some are made by another company (and I know how unreliably they are). Should I change all the TI sockets to turned pin ones, or can I keep than and change only the gray ones I know that will cause me problems? Photos (and the page as soon as I finish rebuilding it) at http://www.tabalabs.com.br/outros_micros/sdk86/ Greetings from Brazil, Alexandre Souza --- Enviado do meu Motorola PT550 Meu site: http://www.tabalabs.com.br

On 10/28/2012 10:08 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: Dave, I will look in my basement. I have a SDK-85 and SDK-86 (both fully working 4 years ago). I think I have some manuals with them. Nanoman

Thanks you all, but the manuals are scanned and avaiable on bitsavers, I already got it here :o)

On 10/29/2012 05:56 AM, Alexandre Souza - Listas wrote: Nicely done! What kind of displays are they, common anode or common cathode? If you send me the part number or datasheet, I might have replacements here. (I have LOTS of displays) I can put them in your box. Nice! I have a Mendel but have not yet gotten it working. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

The ones installed are TIL312... what is missing? ;o) BTW, completed board: http://www.tabalabs.com.br/outros_micros/sdk86/20.jpg

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: If you don't, they aren't expensive... http://www.surplus-electronics-sales.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&a… (at least not compared to shipping to Brazil!) The current standard is some variant of RAMPS - an Arduino Mega plus a shield with Pololu stepper controllers mounted on the top. There are many ways to do it. Lots of enthusiastic amateurs (a category I include myself in), so some of the electronics have gone through more than one design-build-explode-redesign cycle, especially when it comes to choosing and heat-sinking MOSFETs that drive fans and heating elements. I've repaired a few things for myself and others that should never have broken except for unwise design choices (insufficient trace weight for current demands, inopportune placement of power and ground leads that make PSU short circuits more likely to occur, poor choices of connector ratings, etc) As a professional, I have reviewed circuit layouts and such, but they were created by others who are more qualified to perform proper thermal and power requirement calculations (or even just adequate over-engineering). I've dabbled but it's all still stuff I've just picked up. That said, I look at some of the electronics out there and alternate between shaking my head and just shuddering in horror. They do get better, but usually after something proves to really need improvement. The stuff that mostly just works doesn't have much cause to be changed. -ethan

Er...may we come back to the main subject :o) Since I cannot find BPROMs nor see if mine works, I created a 2716-to-BPROM adapter. Plug and PRAY :o) --- Enviado do meu Motorola PT550 Meu site: http://www.tabalabs.com.br ----- Original Message ----- From: "dwight elvey" <dkelvey at hotmail.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 8:39 PM Subject: RE: Restoring an Intel SDK-86 to "mostly like new" condition ---snip---> Hi Airflow and muffin fans have always got me.A simple test with a piece of tissue paper on the end of a stickwould often show how little most understand about airflow.Dwight =

Sure :oO Photos, please? I'd buy a printerbot. Cheap and useful. A friend of mine got one from USA.

On 10/29/2012 09:56 PM, Alexandre Souza - Listas wrote: http://www.neurotica.com/misc/reprap-incomplete.jpg -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On 10/31/2012 09:16 AM, geneb wrote: Yep. The electronics are frightening. The rest of it is respectable, though. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On 10/31/2012 03:36 PM, Alexandre Souza - Listas wrote: That looks like a nice setup. All those through-hole components, though, make me shudder almost as much as the original electronics! ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On 10/31/2012 08:56 PM, Tothwolf wrote: Yuck. The whole electronics package is just a mess. I like those a lot. I use them a lot at work. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On 11/01/2012 04:54 AM, Alexandre Souza - Listas wrote: Nicely done! And for a moment I thought that guy was Richard Dean Anderson. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On Thu, 1 Nov 2012, Alexandre Souza - Listas wrote: The lead spacing on some of those resistors is just too small per the resistor manufacturer's specifications. For a prototype it is probably "ok", but not proving enough of a "shoulder" on the leads can result in cracks in the metal film inside the resistor itself. You might not even notice at first because it may still work, but over time with a little heat and humidity... It is just easier to stick with the proper lead spacing and be done with it, even if the resulting board ends up being a few cm larger. As for the angled jumpers, that likely just means the board routing needed some additional hand tuning. It looks much nicer if the /traces/ are angled so the jumpers can parallel the orientation of the resistors and other passives. For that fact, it would be even better if all of the headers and connectors were located towards the outside edges of the board. Boards with connectors clustered around the inside at random just look less professional.

On 10/31/2012 05:50 PM, geneb wrote: It's just on a messy workbench. If you look closely, you'll see that the machine is fully assembled except for the end-stops and the extruder head. Cool. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On 10/31/2012 06:45 PM, geneb wrote: Yeah, it's a bit, erm, "busy" over there. I took some lab pics at the request of a friend yesterday...I sent them to the hecnet list, I may as well share them here as well. Test bench: http://www.neurotica.com/misc/LabPics/DSC_0796.JPG Rest of test bench (mostly RF gear): http://www.neurotica.com/misc/LabPics/DSC_0797.JPG Soldering bench: http://www.neurotica.com/misc/LabPics/DSC_0798.JPG Close-up of soldering bench: http://www.neurotica.com/misc/LabPics/DSC_0799.JPG Optical bench: http://www.neurotica.com/misc/LabPics/DSC_0801.JPG Electronic component stocks: http://www.neurotica.com/misc/LabPics/DSC_0802.JPG Calibration and reference standards, electronics chemicals: (hmm, and an thermal imaging camera, that's where that went!) http://www.neurotica.com/misc/LabPics/DSC_0803.JPG -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On 10/31/2012 08:36 PM, Alexandre Souza - Listas wrote: Oh and that isn't even the stuff YOU'LL like. ;) I'll have to take some more pics. [cue 70s porn music] -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

You should open your house for visitation and get a fee for each visitor :o)

How could I remember if you never told me that? ;o) --- Enviado do meu Motorola PT550 Meu site: http://www.tabalabs.com.br ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" <mcguire at neurotica.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 6:24 PM Subject: Re: RepRapping. Was:Re: Restoring an Intel SDK-86 to "mostly like new" condition

On Nov 1, 2012, at 9:06 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: You mentioned it on the list some months back. I'll be excited to come see it some time! - Dave

Wow! Congratulations, Dave! --- Enviado do meu Motorola PT550 Meu site: http://www.tabalabs.com.br ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" <mcguire at neurotica.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 11:06 PM Subject: Re: RepRapping. Was:Re: Restoring an Intel SDK-86 to "mostly like new" condition

WOW, a Metcal... :oO

On Oct 31, 2012, at 8:54 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: I agree, in general. I've been quite happy with my Hakko (recommended by Gene, bought for my birthday by my wife), but I will probably always lust in my heart for a proper Metcal. They're not even all that expensive, especially when used, but right now we have $1200 doors to replace before the *next* hurricane comes through, and at least now I'm in the land of temp-controlled irons. - Dave

On Nov 1, 2012, at 9:24 AM, geneb wrote: Yup! The included chisel tip worked fine for what I needed it for immediately (fixing my Quadra 700, which involved extracting corroded battery posts from a ground plane), but I need to get some pointier bits soon. Fortunately, they're not terribly expensive. Truth be told, I'm also almost as glad to have an iron with a real switch (i.e. not the one on the power strip!) as I am to have a temp controlled one. I've lived with my old 30W Weller for far too long; I had almost forgotten what it was like to have a nice iron, since I never come into the office at work anymore. - Dave

I have a weller WTCPN...A pair, to be true. For some 20 years :oD But never ever saw a Metcal before me, forget afford it :(

These are good workers, and I change a tip/year, and heater/each five years! --- Enviado do meu Motorola PT550 Meu site: http://www.tabalabs.com.br ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" <mcguire at neurotica.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 6:23 PM Subject: Re: RepRapping. Was:Re: Restoring an Intel SDK-86 to "mostly like new" condition

On 11/1/12 2:07 AM, Jochen Kunz wrote: I stopped using anything else once I had used one on the bench at Apple. The only problem I've had are the tips failing to heat up (and that the replacements aren't cheap). They work really really well for SMT.

On 11/1/2012 8:21 AM, David Riley wrote: They use induction or RF heating. The box is a high power RF source operating near 13 MHz. They are definitely not just a chunk of wire that gets hot. Rob.

On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 08:04:10 -0700 Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote: BTW: http://www.thermaltronics.com/ Founded by ex Metcal employees. They produce a range of soldering stations and tips compatible to the Metcal MX-500 and SP200, but a bit cheaper. I.e. the Thermaltronics should be in the same price range as the OKI MFR. (Beware, the TMT9000S is a single supply with two switched outputs. You can drive one or the other, where the OKI MFR-22xx / Metcal MX-50xx features true dual simultaneous PSUs.) So no difference when you purchase a new rig, but you may get replacement tips for your old Metcal a bit cheaper then the originals. -- \end{Jochen} \ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/}

On 11/02/2012 01:55 PM, Jim Brain wrote: I don't know of any documents or links, but I've used them side-by-side, I prefer the Metcal. I still have a Weller, though (on a different bench) and I don't gnash my teeth when I use it. I notice the differences, but I will NOT say "Wellers suck". I know in this gang I'd have to publish it in a book for it to be considered legitimate information, but enough people ask me for soldering advice that I feel comfortable considering myself to be fairly knowledgeable about it. In my experience, most Wellers are very good irons. Most Hakkos are very very good irons. Metcals are great irons. That said, if you're comfortable with what you're using, don't consider it broken. Different people use their tools in different ways. It's probably worth the time to try a Metcal to see if YOU notice a significant difference...if you don't, then upgrading is a waste of money, time, and effort becoming accustomed to a different tool. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

I had used a weller working at a govenerment contractor, and for years in grad school (too many years. . .), and bought one for home when I got out--obviously no complaints.? But when I started stocking a lab from Ebay, I took a chance on a Metcal on Ebay, and have been a convert ever since. Dave

On 11/4/2012 4:45 AM, Philip Pemberton wrote: Not to dismiss the other points or pick fights, but at least the Weller WESD51 has auto-shutoff as well. Jim -- Jim Brain brain at jbrain.com www.jbrain.com

On 11/2/2012 1:44 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: Well, I am hoping to attend VCF East in 2013, so maybe someone with a Metcal can come and let me try it out. Jim -- Jim Brain brain at jbrain.com www.jbrain.com

On 11/02/2012 11:17 PM, Jim Brain wrote: I will be there. I would be happy to bring my Metcal SP-200 there for you to try out. Please remind me if you can. And plan to bring some boards and components, something to solder. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 13:17:20 -0500 Jim Brain <brain at jbrain.com> wrote: You may consider a OKi MFR soldering station. Metcal got swallowed by OKi. So my OKi MFR 2241 reads "Powered by Metcal" on the front. You can use Metcal SP200 cartridges on the OKi MFR PSUs with a special handpiece. But this is only usefull if you have a lot of SP200 cartridges already. The MFR soldering station uses inexpensive cartridges, differet to the Metcal cartridges. You can think of the OKi MFR 1110 as the successor to the Metcal SP200. My experiences with the MFR 2241 are very positive. The handpiece is very good to handle. The cartridges are thin and short. Very fine SMD soldering is no problem. Yet the cartridges heat immediately and can deliver immense amounts of heat (ground planes...) - but they do this only when needed. I've used ERSA and Weller in the past. I'll never go back. Especially the Wellers I used are much inferior to the OKi, yet they are more expensive then the OKi MFR! Thermaltronics may be an alternative. They build clones of the Metcal product line since the patents have expired. -- \end{Jochen} \ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/}

On Jul 24, 2013, at 9:27 PM, Mouse <mouse at rodents-montreal.org> wrote: Having used Metcals at work and a Hakko at home, I'll say that the Metcals are definitely better. Whether you NEED better is really a question of what you need to do; if I start soldering fine-pitch QFPs, I may want to get a Metcal to save myself some time. But for everything I'm doing right now, my Hakko is pretty satisfactory. - Dave

On 11/01/2012 05:07 AM, Jochen Kunz wrote: That's my opinion, yes. I've not tried (or even seen) those. The "Smart Heat" stuff is half of the battle, the tip plating is the other critical part. If they don't skimp there, I'd say it'll probably do well. If you end up getting one, I'd appreciate knowing what you think of it. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On 02/11/12 00:10, Jochen Kunz wrote: Here's what I have -- SFP-CH50 - 5mm chisel. Used for power connector and heatsink tabs. SFP-CH25 - 2.5mm chisel. Standard tip for through-hole (I also have a 2mm chisel, the SFP-CH20, which I use for 0805 and 0603 SMDs) SFP-DRH35 - 3.5mm drag-hoof / half-round (what PACE call a MiniWave tip). Used for soldering SMD ICs, especially QFPs using "drag soldering" techniques. I also have the 0.4mm Conical (CN04) and Long Reach Conical (CNL04) but almost never use them - soldering single SMD pins with them is, quite honestly, an exercise in masochism and time-wasting. What they *are* good for is repairing thin PCB tracks! They have just enough thermal capacity to melt the solder at the tip of a piece of 40AWG wirewrap wire without melting the other end too. A 1mm chisel tip would probably work just as well. As far as tip plating goes, my "standard" lead free solder eats Antex tips for dinner - and that's the standard 505-flux Multicore stuff. Swapped to Metcal, haven't had to change a tip out since. -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/

On Nov 4, 2012, at 5:55 AM, Philip Pemberton <classiccmp at philpem.me.uk> wrote: I have a SP200. What cartridges do you suggest for through-hole and SMT soldering? I think the cartridges you mention above must be for a more expensive Metcal station.

On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 16:27:25 -0400 Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: The Oki MFR-2241 arrived today. I did some (de-) soldering on scrap PCBs in the last hours. It is amazing how the small 1 mm chisel cartridge heats up large through hole pins soldered to big ground planes. My old iron wolud not be able to do this, in no way. The OKi tips are thin and short. Wheres the heater + tip of my old iron is much thicker and longer. A touch up on a single SMD pin is much easier with the OKi, as the total length of the tip is much shorter. The "precision" tweezers aren't that precise as expected, but its OK. Wane desolder that SO8? Grab with the tweezers, wait a second or two and it comes off. Wane desolder that LM2676 (dPak)? Tin the leads for better heat conduction, grab with the tweezers, wait some more seconds (large ground plane under the chip) and it comes off... My setup cost me 830 EUR (approx. 1055US$) including some tips. The single PSU variant, MFR-1100, is 300 EUR (approx. 380US$). If you are in buissines for a new soldering iron and can spend that much money, get at least a MFR-1100. It is worth every single cent! I'll get a pair of larger tips for the tweezers later. These are expensive, around 100 EUR. But desoldering a DIP16 or the like will be a piece of cake with them. p.s. At unpacking I noticed that the pacel had been droped top down onto the flor. But the PSU survived without a single scratch. It is build out of cast aluminium. It is heavy and build like a tank. Its really industrial grade equipment. -- \end{Jochen} \ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/}

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012, Dave McGuire wrote: Very nice. Strangely enough, the first thing I identified was the Atari 800 in the background of the soldering station pic. :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 10/31/2012 08:18 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: Oh gawd am I jealous. Barry

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 10:37 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: Ah, yes. That, BTW, is an original Mendel knock-off, not a Prusa knock-off (major difference is original has one Z motor and an undercarraige belt system, the Prusa has two Z motors). Yes, that's an older extruder design, but it should get you started to the point of being able to print a better one (or you can purchase a newer extruder if you want to sink money vs time into it). The original Mendel was designed to print with PLA, so no heated bed. ABS (or full 8" PLA parts) will require a heated bed. MakerBot just switched from ABS to PLA as their primary material. RepRappers have been using both all along, depending on personal preference and costs and especially bed design. If you can get some firmware on the main board and at least get it to dance around without heat or a filament, you are most of the way there. I'd recommend getting everything working up to the point of installing the extruder on the X sled and deciding if you want to spend time or spend money on the final steps. I cannot make specific firmware or application suggestions from experience. You are further in your Mendel build than I am with mine. I have much more experience with MakerBot products/tools. We do have a monthly 3D printer meetup in Columbus, but it's 3.5 hrs from you and runs from 19:00-22:00 - not a great time for such a long commute. We get people dropping in from around the state, but 1.5 hrs is about the max range. ObOnTopic: anyone draft up an STL file for DEC toggle switch paddles yet? I'm willing to give a go at printing some but I'm not a skilled CAD operator/designer. -ethan

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: Time marches on. I'm presently rebuilding a 2010 Thing-O-Matic, but I have to DIY here and there because it was only sold for a year and not many spare parts for it are still stocked. I'm not unhappy considering the heinous discount I got it at, so all the repair efforts are totally worth it, but it would just be easier to order replacements (or spares) than fabricate them. Yep. There's a 40W-50W heated PCB or some folks are using silicone flat heaters (powered by mains or 24VDC, depending on the design). Good. Again, more progress than I've made yet, though I did just get some locktite last week so I can do a proper adjust and align and set for the side triangles. Second Wednesday of every month. Next one is 14 November. Ping me offline for directions, etc. I could use a bunch of those, too. FDM is not highly resistant to delamination, so either a support rod should be incorporated, or perhaps just make an injection mold and crank out a bunch of them out of ABS and do a large enough run that the mold costs are well amortized. If you really wanted to print them, I'd recommend printing the "nipples" by themselves, but with longer shanks, washing them with some homemade ABS "glue" (ABS scrap + acetone) to smooth the finish and fuse the layers, then glue them in the flat parts made with a hole for each "nipple". The flat bits could be printed or just laser cut minutes in a laser cutter, but printed ones could incorporate a tapered hole for the head of the 10-32 machine screw used for mounting. -ethan

Update: It isn't the BPROMs. Since my trustworthy Beeprog doesn't work with the D3625 (older than earth itself!), I had to create a small dumper to read the BPROMs: http://www.tabalabs.com.br/outros_micros/sdk86/21.jpg Once read, I found some differences to the original BPROMs that runs in the MESS emulator. So, I renamed my BPROM files to the MESS standard, and...It ran. :oP So the problem is the 8086 itself, one or more RAMs (P2142) or some phisical problem on the board. I will repair it! :oO http://www.tabalabs.com.br/outros_micros/sdk86/22.jpg Time to sleep...See ya :o) --- Enviado do meu Motorola PT550 Meu site: http://www.tabalabs.com.br

It will be simpler to create a small tester for the P2142, just like I did for the BPROMs ;o) I confess I'm confused with this board...

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012, Dave McGuire wrote: So show 'em how it's done! :) The Rostock Max I ordered will be coming with the RAMBo electronics. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!

Alexandre Souza - Listas wrote about the Intel SDK-86: It came with those three manuals and "The 8086 Family User's Manual" (9800722), also known as "The MCS-86 Family User's Manual", and in a later edition, as the "iAPX 86 88 User's Manual".

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Alexandre Souza - Listas <pu1bzz.listas at gmail.com> wrote: Did you/can you test your RAM? Do you have access to a system tester like a Fluke 9010A (with an 8086 pod, as well)? Not many folks have them, but if you do or can borrow one, they are nice for RAM tests, ROM test, bus tests, etc. I don't know anything about the D3625A PROMs, but one thing that might be handy is to make a pin-swabber socket. It's easy for JEDEC or near-JEDEC parts, a bit more work for oddball parts. The idea is to provide a socket for a 2K or 4K EPROM and stuff in a 2716 or 2732 which should work fine with your Beeprog. Of course if you have a ROM emulator, that's even easier to work with. Reading odd EPROMs is a lot easier than writing them, so the trick here is to fit in standard EPROMs to make it easy to put your own code on the machine. The idea is to be able to write some very simple "blink the LED"-type programs with a small handful of instructions and watch for success and make the programs incrementally more sophisticated so you can first be certain that the bus and ROM work, then RAM, then I/O chips, etc. In the early stages, you can use/make a simple logic probe or just use an oscilloscope to watch for the "output" of your program. Later, you would be able to spit out text via your UART, once you know more things are working. For really dead systems, there was a trick for the 6502 that might or might not work here... it involved taking a real 6502 and bending out the data leads and wiring them up to Vcc or GND so that no matter what address they fetched, the data returned was always a NOP instruction. This would cause the CPU to start up and run an endless cycle of NOPs, turning the address bus into a binary counter. You can then check the decode logic by watching chip enable (/CE) inputs strobe every time through the memory map, and by knowing what that map should look like you can verify how often /CE gets asserted at the ROMs, the RAMs, and the I/O chips. This trick won't find everything, but if, for example, you never see /CE at the RAM, you know where to start narrowing down the search. It's particularly effective with pre-PAL designs where you can trace the decode logic from gate to gate. I don't know if this trick is possible with an 8086, but if it is, it's a code-free way to explore some of the logic. -ethan

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Alexandre Souza - Listas <pu1bzz.listas at gmail.com> wrote: Hi, Alexandre, Did you ever get this working? I ask because I was cleaning up the shelves in my hobby room and found lurking under my "Z80 Starter Kit" a clean SDK-86. Mine has been stored indoors, clean and in a static bag, so I don't anticipate the sorts of cleaning problems you had, but I have no idea yet if there are any issues with the RAM chips. -ethan

nierveze wrote: I do have a license as I already wrote, have to renew it in January next year. I think that copy I have is 7.1 and I have it installed inclusive DecWindows. Kind Regards, Holm -- Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583 www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741