7 May
2015
7 May
'15
12:40 p.m.
Anyone got any RT11/RSTS-E games? I'm back on with my project to recreate
the PDP-11 that I goofed around with when I was a kid. (Its accessible via
the bbs... bbs.cortex-media.info 4223)
I have 2.52 version of Dungeon, and a version of Star Trek. Anyone got
anything else?
I'm still looking for Oregon Software Pascal as well...
Thanks!
Mark
7 May
7 May
1:07 p.m.
John wrote...
----
Anyone got any RT11/RSTS-E games? I'm back on with my project to recreate the PDP-11
that I goofed around with when I was a kid. (Its accessible via the bbs...
bbs.cortex-media.info 4223)
----
I wish. I had (on RX50) a VERY cool driving game. I would not have thought something like
that could be done well for an ASCII terminal, but it was great. Unfortunately, it loaded
off that floppy one time - and the floppy has errors there since and can't read it :(
I believe it was called "DODGE.SAV".
---
I'm still looking for Oregon Software Pascal as well...
---
This I may have, will check tonight.
J
4:34 p.m.
On 7 May 2015 at 18:07, Jay West <jwest at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I wish. I had (on RX50) a VERY cool driving game. I would not have thought
something like that could be done well for an ASCII terminal, but it was
great. Unfortunately, it loaded off that floppy one time - and the floppy
has errors there since and can't read it :( I believe it was called
"DODGE.SAV".
That sucks. I used to have text mode space invaders for my PDP 11/23
(which was part of some sort of POS system and ran RT11). It's always sad
when things can't be recovered. I can't find basic stuff, like the stock
exchange game I played on the ASU PDP-11 back in the day.
---
I'm still looking for Oregon Software Pascal as well...
---
This I may have, will check tonight.
That would be really cool. That is the language I learned to program
in... well, really programmed in...
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift
4:38 p.m.
On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 4:34 PM, John Many Jars
<john at yoyodyne-propulsion.net> wrote:
On 7 May 2015 at 18:07, Jay West <jwest at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
I used to have text mode space invaders for my PDP 11/23
(which was part of some sort of POS system and ran RT11).
This one?
http://pdp11.saracom.com/pdp11/games/spcinv.zip
(there could be others)
-ethan
5:21 p.m.
On Thu, 7 May 2015 16:38:30 -0400
Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 4:34 PM, John Many Jars
<john at yoyodyne-propulsion.net> wrote:
Appears to be a bad link :(
Lyle
--
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
On 7 May 2015 at 18:07, Jay West <jwest at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
I used to have text mode space invaders for my PDP 11/23
(which was part of some sort of POS system and ran RT11).
This one?
http://pdp11.saracom.com/pdp11/games/spcinv.zip
(there could be others) 
5:34 p.m.
Lyle Bickley wrote:
On Thu, 7 May 2015 16:38:30 -0400
Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote:
Try http://pdp11.saracom.com/games/spcinv.zip instead.
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 4:34 PM, John Many Jars
<john at yoyodyne-propulsion.net> wrote:
Appears to be a bad link :(
Lyle
On 7 May 2015 at 18:07, Jay West <jwest at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
I used to have text mode space invaders for my PDP 11/23
(which was part of some sort of POS system and ran RT11).
This one?
http://pdp11.saracom.com/pdp11/games/spcinv.zip
(there could be others)
7:42 p.m.
On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 5:34 PM, Peter Coghlan <cctalk at beyondthepale.ie> wrote:
Lyle Bickley wrote:
Nice catch.
Thanks!
-ethan
Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>
wrote:
Try http://pdp11.saracom.com/games/spcinv.zip instead. This one?
Appears to be a bad link :(
7:42 p.m.
On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Lyle Bickley <lbickley at bickleywest.com> wrote:
On Thu, 7 May 2015 16:38:30 -0400
Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote:
Oh, no! I didn't click through (I copied it from the main page), but
yes... it looks like the content is gone. :-(
-ethan
http://pdp11.saracom.com/pdp11/games/spcinv.zip
(there could be others)
Appears to be a bad link :(
2:41 p.m.
On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 12:40 PM, John Many Jars
<john at yoyodyne-propulsion.net> wrote:
Anyone got any RT11/RSTS-E games? I'm back on
with my project to recreate
the PDP-11 that I goofed around with when I was a kid....
Are you trying to recreate that experience and play games you did
play, or are you looking for games you can play now?
I have 2.52 version of Dungeon
That's definitely missing some features (puzzles) from later versions.
I don't recall what does and doesn't backport from the VMS-era
versions.
and a version of Star Trek.
Essential!
Anyone got anything else?
If you are looking for games you _can_ play, a couple of years ago at
VCFe, I hacked one of the RT-11 Z-Machines to run on RSTS/E (it needed
one extra system call to do with memory allocation) so we could play
Zork, Planetfall, etc., on Dave McGuire's PDP-11/70. If you wanted
that I could try to dig it up. You just need a fistful of .Z3 files
to play, then.
I also used to have a number of RT-11 games when I was in front of a
PDP-11 every day. I know I have them on an RL01 pack...
-ethan
4:39 p.m.
On 7 May 2015 at 19:41, Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote:
I used to have 1.2b. This one at least has the end game. I compiled it
in RT11 using the instructions here:
http://gunkies.org/wiki/Compiling_Dungeon_on_RT-11
I'd love even newer version...
that I
found that doesn't quite work. It would be even cooler to have it
on the PDP!
On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 12:40 PM, John Many Jars
<john at yoyodyne-propulsion.net> wrote:
Kind of both. What I'm looking to do is to have in my homebrew BBS (which
is a museum in itself) a RSTS "door" with the largest number of good old
DEC games I can find.
Anyone got any RT11/RSTS-E games? I'm back
on with my project to
recreate
the PDP-11 that I goofed around with when I was a
kid....
Are you trying to recreate that experience and play games you did
play, or are you looking for games you can play now?
I have 2.52 version of Dungeon
That's definitely missing some features (puzzles) from later versions.
I don't recall what does and doesn't backport from the VMS-era
versions.
and a version of Star Trek.
Essential!
Anyone got anything else?
If you are looking for games you _can_ play, a couple of years ago at
VCFe, I hacked one of the RT-11 Z-Machines to run on RSTS/E (it needed
one extra system call to do with memory allocation) so we could play
Zork, Planetfall, etc., on Dave McGuire's PDP-11/70. If you wanted
that I could try to dig it up. You just need a fistful of .Z3 files
to play, then.
That would be OUTSTANDING, as I was going to do that via some Ruby code I also used to have a number of RT-11 games when I was
in front of a
PDP-11 every day. I know I have them on an RL01 pack...
I'd love to have those as well! Thanks in advance for your help!
8:34 p.m.
On 2015-05-07 20:41, Ethan Dicks wrote:
But that "backport" was done by me, and requires an RSX system with
split I/D-space to run...
I think in general V2.6 was the last version that was generally
available for PDP-11s.
However, there are many different versions of that game...
I would guess that would be ZEMU? Do you have the RSTS/E fixes around. I
have been hoping for ages that someone would just try and get it running
under RSTS/E, since then I could incorporate those fixes into the
distribution as well.
On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 12:40 PM, John Many Jars
<john at yoyodyne-propulsion.net> wrote:
.dun
Welcome to Dungeon. This version created 16-Jan-03.
This is an open field west of a white house with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.
A rubber mat saying "Welcome to Dungeon!" lies by the door.
I have 2.52 version of Dungeon
That's definitely missing some features (puzzles) from later versions.
I don't recall what does and doesn't backport from the VMS-era
versions. version
V3.2C
history
Revision history:
16-Jan-03 Backport to RSX-11M-PLUS (V3.2C).
20-Oct-94 Bug fixes (V3.2B).
01-Oct-94 Bug fixes (V3.2A).
01-Feb-94 Portable VMS/UNIX version (V3.1A).
01-Jan-90 Portable version (V3.0A).
18-Oct-80 Revised DECUS version (V2.6A).
18-Jul-80 Transportable data base file (V2.5A).
28-Feb-80 Compressed text file (V2.4A).
15-Nov-79 Bug fixes (V2.3A).
18-Jan-79 Revised DECUS version (V2.2A).
10-Oct-78 Puzzle Room (V2.1A).
10-Sep-78 Endgame (V2.0A).
10-Aug-78 DECUS version (V1.1B).
14-Jun-78 Public version with parser (V1.1A).
04-Mar-78 Debugging version (V1.0A).
and a version
of Star Trek.
Essential! Anyone got
anything else?
If you are looking for games you _can_ play, a couple of years ago at
VCFe, I hacked one of the RT-11 Z-Machines to run on RSTS/E (it needed
one extra system call to do with memory allocation) so we could play
Zork, Planetfall, etc., on Dave McGuire's PDP-11/70. If you wanted
that I could try to dig it up. You just need a fistful of .Z3 files
to play, then. I also used to have a number of RT-11 games when I was
in front of a
PDP-11 every day. I know I have them on an RL01 pack...
There are a bunch from DECUS, I believe.
Afraid I can't help much, though. All stuff I got is for RSX.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
9:38 p.m.
On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at update.uu.se> wrote:
I think it's actually a decompiled and commented Infocom Z-machine I
got from someone on this list.
I do have it, but on a copy of the daily-driver machine I was using in
2013 or so. I have to go find it on an archive disk.
On 2015-05-07 20:41, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Revision history:
16-Jan-03 Backport to RSX-11M-PLUS (V3.2C).
20-Oct-94 Bug fixes (V3.2B).
01-Oct-94 Bug fixes (V3.2A).
01-Feb-94 Portable VMS/UNIX version (V3.1A).
01-Jan-90 Portable version (V3.0A).
18-Oct-80 Revised DECUS version (V2.6A).
18-Jul-80 Transportable data base file (V2.5A).
28-Feb-80 Compressed text file (V2.4A).
15-Nov-79 Bug fixes (V2.3A).
18-Jan-79 Revised DECUS version (V2.2A).
10-Oct-78 Puzzle Room (V2.1A).
10-Sep-78 Endgame (V2.0A).
10-Aug-78 DECUS version (V1.1B).
14-Jun-78 Public version with parser (V1.1A).
04-Mar-78 Debugging version (V1.0A).
But that "backport" was done by me, and requires an RSX system with split
I/D-space to run...
Nice version history there.
I have
2.52 version of Dungeon
That's definitely missing some features (puzzles) from later versions.
I don't recall what does and doesn't backport from the VMS-era
versions. I think in general V2.6 was the last version that was
generally available
for PDP-11s.
That seems about right (especially with the 10 year gap, past the
point of most daily PDP-11 use).
If you are
looking for games you _can_ play, a couple of years ago at
VCFe, I hacked one of the RT-11 Z-Machines to run on RSTS/E
I would guess that would be ZEMU? Do you have the RSTS/E fixes around. I
have been hoping for ages that someone would just try and get it running
under RSTS/E, since then I could incorporate those fixes into the
distribution as well.
If ZEMU compiles for RT-11 (not just RSX-11), then the fix, if it
needs one, for RSTS/E would be similar and minor (there's an extra
little twiddle you have to do when allocating memory under the RT-11
emulation environment that is not required on real RT-11).
Afraid I can't help much, though. All stuff I got
is for RSX.
In 1986-1987, I was doing a bunch of RT-11 development for a custom
product. I was on the PDP-11 all day every day, and my gaming
alternatives were a C-64 (nice, but getting a bit old at that time)
and an Amiga with single floppy and 512MB of RAM (fixed up to 2MB and
20MB disk a year later), so I collected RT-11 games (and OS/8 games,
but that's for another thread).
I know I can find a couple things without firing up entire racks of gear...
-ethan
9:47 p.m.
On 2015-05-08 03:38, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Indeed.
I think it's actually a decompiled and commented Infocom Z-machine I
got from someone on this list.
Cool. I know that Infocom did publish ZORK I for RT-11, but I haven't
seen it myself.
ZEMU works just fine on both RSX and RT-11. I wrote the thing with
portability in mind. All OS-dependent code is in just one file, and
Megan Gentry did the RT-11 port.
An RSTS/E port should be pretty straight forward. You could possibly
even use most of the RT-11 code straight up. The RSX code would probably
be harder.
Well, I know that there are a bunch of games on DECUS distributions, so
I would suggest checking those out.
Also, a bunch of DECUS programs were source in FORTRAN or BASIC, and
should really compile just fine on any OS.
The most fun games for RSX, however, are multiplayer things, and those
would be much harder to port... But if anyone is interested, they can
certainly check under MIM::SYS$GAMES: on HECnet.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Johnny Billquist
<bqt at update.uu.se> wrote:
Yeah. All from within the game. Pretty nice. That command should be
there in most versions of DUNGEON I know of.
On 2015-05-07 20:41, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Revision history:
16-Jan-03 Backport to RSX-11M-PLUS (V3.2C).
20-Oct-94 Bug fixes (V3.2B).
01-Oct-94 Bug fixes (V3.2A).
01-Feb-94 Portable VMS/UNIX version (V3.1A).
01-Jan-90 Portable version (V3.0A).
18-Oct-80 Revised DECUS version (V2.6A).
18-Jul-80 Transportable data base file (V2.5A).
28-Feb-80 Compressed text file (V2.4A).
15-Nov-79 Bug fixes (V2.3A).
18-Jan-79 Revised DECUS version (V2.2A).
10-Oct-78 Puzzle Room (V2.1A).
10-Sep-78 Endgame (V2.0A).
10-Aug-78 DECUS version (V1.1B).
14-Jun-78 Public version with parser (V1.1A).
04-Mar-78 Debugging version (V1.0A).
But that "backport" was done by me, and requires an RSX system with split
I/D-space to run...
Nice version history there. I have
2.52 version of Dungeon
That's definitely missing some features (puzzles) from later versions.
I don't recall what does and doesn't backport from the VMS-era
versions. I think in
general V2.6 was the last version that was generally available
for PDP-11s.
That seems about right (especially with the 10 year gap, past the
point of most daily PDP-11 use). If you are looking for games you _can_ play, a couple
of years ago at
VCFe, I hacked one of the RT-11 Z-Machines to run on RSTS/E
I would guess that would be ZEMU? I do have it, but on a copy of the daily-driver
machine I was using in
2013 or so. I have to go find it on an archive disk.
Interesting. Might be fun to check out if I ever have time...
Do you have
the RSTS/E fixes around. I
have been hoping for ages that someone would just try and get it running
under RSTS/E, since then I could incorporate those fixes into the
distribution as well.
If ZEMU compiles for RT-11 (not just RSX-11), then the fix, if it
needs one, for RSTS/E would be similar and minor (there's an extra
little twiddle you have to do when allocating memory under the RT-11
emulation environment that is not required on real RT-11). Afraid I
can't help much, though. All stuff I got is for RSX.
In 1986-1987, I was doing a bunch of RT-11 development for a custom
product. I was on the PDP-11 all day every day, and my gaming
alternatives were a C-64 (nice, but getting a bit old at that time)
and an Amiga with single floppy and 512MB of RAM (fixed up to 2MB and
20MB disk a year later), so I collected RT-11 games (and OS/8 games,
but that's for another thread). 
11:52 p.m.
I have a floppy here somewhere with Adventure and a load of other games i
played on a PDT11/150 I kept at my parents house.
Also an RK05 pack full of dames including Lunar Lander and Star Treck
which both required a VT11.
I hope to go through them this year yet.
Paul
On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 8:47 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at update.uu.se> wrote:
On 2015-05-08 03:38, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Indeed.
If you are looking for games you _can_ play, a couple of years ago at
I think it's actually a decompiled and commented Infocom Z-machine I
got from someone on this list.
Cool. I know that Infocom did publish ZORK I for RT-11, but I haven't seen
it myself.
I do have it, but on a copy of the daily-driver machine I was using in
ZEMU works just fine on both RSX and RT-11. I wrote the thing with
portability in mind. All OS-dependent code is in just one file, and Megan
Gentry did the RT-11 port.
An RSTS/E port should be pretty straight forward. You could possibly even
use most of the RT-11 code straight up. The RSX code would probably be
harder.
Afraid I can't help much, though. All stuff I got is for RSX.
In 1986-1987, I was doing a bunch of RT-11 development for a custom
product. I was on the PDP-11 all day every day, and my gaming
alternatives were a C-64 (nice, but getting a bit old at that time)
and an Amiga with single floppy and 512MB of RAM (fixed up to 2MB and
20MB disk a year later), so I collected RT-11 games (and OS/8 games,
but that's for another thread).
Well, I know that there are a bunch of games on DECUS distributions, so I
would suggest checking those out.
Also, a bunch of DECUS programs were source in FORTRAN or BASIC, and
should really compile just fine on any OS.
The most fun games for RSX, however, are multiplayer things, and those
would be much harder to port... But if anyone is interested, they can
certainly check under MIM::SYS$GAMES: on HECnet.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Johnny Billquist
<bqt at update.uu.se>
wrote:
Yeah. All from within the game. Pretty nice. That command should be there
in most versions of DUNGEON I know of.
I think in general V2.6 was the last version that was generally available
On 2015-05-07 20:41, Ethan Dicks wrote:
But that "backport" was done by me, and requires an RSX system with
split
I/D-space to run...
Nice version history there.
I have 2.52 version of Dungeon
>
That's definitely missing some features (puzzles) from later versions.
I don't recall what does and doesn't backport from the VMS-era
versions.
Revision history:
16-Jan-03 Backport to RSX-11M-PLUS (V3.2C).
20-Oct-94 Bug fixes (V3.2B).
01-Oct-94 Bug fixes (V3.2A).
01-Feb-94 Portable VMS/UNIX version (V3.1A).
01-Jan-90 Portable version (V3.0A).
18-Oct-80 Revised DECUS version (V2.6A).
18-Jul-80 Transportable data base file (V2.5A).
28-Feb-80 Compressed text file (V2.4A).
15-Nov-79 Bug fixes (V2.3A).
18-Jan-79 Revised DECUS version (V2.2A).
10-Oct-78 Puzzle Room (V2.1A).
10-Sep-78 Endgame (V2.0A).
10-Aug-78 DECUS version (V1.1B).
14-Jun-78 Public version with parser (V1.1A).
04-Mar-78 Debugging version (V1.0A).
for
PDP-11s.
That seems about right (especially with the 10 year gap, past the
point of most daily PDP-11 use).
VCFe, I hacked one of the RT-11 Z-Machines to run on
RSTS/E
I would guess that would be ZEMU?
2013 or so. I have to go find it on an archive
disk.
Interesting. Might be fun to check out if I ever have time...
Do you have the RSTS/E fixes around. I
have been
hoping for ages that someone would just try and get it running
under RSTS/E, since then I could incorporate those fixes into the
distribution as well.
If ZEMU compiles for RT-11 (not just RSX-11), then the fix, if it
needs one, for RSTS/E would be similar and minor (there's an extra
little twiddle you have to do when allocating memory under the RT-11
emulation environment that is not required on real RT-11).
8 May
8 May
12:45 a.m.
On Fri, May 08, 2015 at 03:47:13AM +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Cool. I know that Infocom did publish ZORK I for RT-11,
but I haven't seen it
myself.
At one point they had RT-11 versions of most of their games. I bought a
copy of Sorcerer from them (for $35) a trillion years ago, and disassembled
and commented it. I later tried to use it to play Hitchhiker's Guide
(which was never released for RT-11) but I think it was a microscopically
different version of the Z-machine so there were problems.
John Wilson
D Bit
12:52 a.m.
On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 12:45 AM, John Wilson <wilson at dbit.com> wrote:
On Fri, May 08, 2015 at 03:47:13AM +0200, Johnny
Billquist wrote:
The Z-machine for RT-11 that Infocom released only handled v3 images.
HHGTTG definitely had a v5 version, but without looking, I can't
remember if the first version was v3 or v4. The difference between v3
and v5 is not microscopic - it's on the order of 4X in terms of object
and string capacity. ISTR in v4, they added some real-timey "status
line" stuff, for games like "Seastalker", and bumped up some of the
memory addressing limits.
You can run a v3 game comfortably in 48K bytes, painfully in 32K
bytes, even on an 8-bit host. You essentially can't run v5 game on
32K because the "impure store" and the interpreter won't fit (or it
_might_ fit but with not enough free pages for the parser to remain
resident). Some of the later games essentially required 64K or even
128K of mem. Once machines jumped to 256K or more, the paging system
fell away and the interpreters just sucked the entire game file into
RAM and moved pointers around.
As for the PDP-11, one _could_ write a split-I&D interpreter for
larger games (to have ~64K of game/string space) but you'd have to
really want to play a later game on that platform to make the effort
pay off. There are over a dozen v3 games you _can_ play with 64K of
total space that play just fine.
-ethan
Cool. I know that Infocom did publish ZORK I for
RT-11, but I haven't seen it
myself.
At one point they had RT-11 versions of most of their games. I bought a
copy of Sorcerer from them (for $35) a trillion years ago, and disassembled
and commented it. I later tried to use it to play Hitchhiker's Guide
(which was never released for RT-11) but I think it was a microscopically
different version of the Z-machine so there were problems.
5:43 a.m.
On 2015-05-08 06:52, Ethan Dicks wrote:
On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 12:45 AM, John Wilson
<wilson at dbit.com> wrote:
I only knew of the V1 version, for the original Zork I. I never knew
that Infocom released anything past Zork I for RT-11.
On Fri, May 08, 2015 at 03:47:13AM +0200, Johnny
Billquist wrote:
The Z-machine for RT-11 that Infocom released only handled v3 images. Cool. I know that Infocom did publish ZORK I for
RT-11, but I haven't seen it
myself.
At one point they had RT-11 versions of most of their games. I bought a
copy of Sorcerer from them (for $35) a trillion years ago, and disassembled
and commented it. I later tried to use it to play Hitchhiker's Guide
(which was never released for RT-11) but I think it was a microscopically
different version of the Z-machine so there were problems. HHGTTG definitely had a v5 version, but without
looking, I can't
remember if the first version was v3 or v4. The difference between v3
and v5 is not microscopic - it's on the order of 4X in terms of object
and string capacity. ISTR in v4, they added some real-timey "status
line" stuff, for games like "Seastalker", and bumped up some of the
memory addressing limits.
Yes, V5 is substantially different from V3. You cannot hack up a V3
Z-machine to handle V5 games. You need to change a bunch of stuff. Not
only is the game format different. Some opcodes also changed.
Seastalker is actually a V3 game, but it requires some functions that no
other V3 game have.
You can run a v3 game comfortably in 48K bytes,
painfully in 32K
bytes, even on an 8-bit host. You essentially can't run v5 game on
32K because the "impure store" and the interpreter won't fit (or it
_might_ fit but with not enough free pages for the parser to remain
resident). Some of the later games essentially required 64K or even
128K of mem. Once machines jumped to 256K or more, the paging system
fell away and the interpreters just sucked the entire game file into
RAM and moved pointers around.
Depending on version, even 256K is not enough to such it all into
memory. But Infocom themselves only got to V6, which I think might fit
in 256K...
As for the PDP-11, one _could_ write a split-I&D
interpreter for
larger games (to have ~64K of game/string space) but you'd have to
really want to play a later game on that platform to make the effort
pay off. There are over a dozen v3 games you _can_ play with 64K of
total space that play just fine.
Um? Where have you been? ZEMU have been around for about 15 years now.
It runs all V1 to V8 games, and runs under both RT-11 and RSX. I seem to
remember that I've even run most of them without using split I/D space,
but normally I do built it for split I/D space under RSX, as well as
some other memory tricks to speed things up, but any Infocom game fits
fine with just a straight 64K memory space, and most fits fine with much
less.
(ZEMU do have issues with Zork Zero, but that isn't a memory problem,
but issues with graphics and the fact that the code behaves differently
depending on which platform it things it runs on, and appears to have
various bugs and issues in general, sadly enough.)
On MIM:: (once more)
.zem/li/sy
-- System games --
Game Release Serial Inform Z-Machine
ADVENT 5 961209 6.05 5
AMFV 77 850814 4
BALLERINA 1 991128 6.21 8
BALLYHOO 97 851218 3
BEYONDZOR 57 871221 5
BOMBER 3 971123 6.13 5
BORDERZON 9 871008 5
BUREAUCRA 116 870602 4
CUTTHROAT 23 840809 3
DEADLINE 27 831005 3
DOGSLIFE 1 981015 6.15 5
DREAMHOLD 5 041231 6.21 8
ENCHANTER 29 860820 3
HEROINE 3 001211 6.21 8
HITCHHIKE 31 871119 5
HOLLYWOOD 37 861215 3
INFIDEL 22 830916 3
KITTEN 6 031116 6.21 5
LEATHER 59 860730 3
LURKING 203 870506 3
MOONMIST 9 861022 3
NEVER 10 000928 6.21 5
NORDANDBE 19 870722 4
PLANETFAL 37 851003 3
PLUNDERER 26 870730 3
SAMEGAME 1 980731 6.15 5
SEASTALKE 16 850603 3
SHERLOCK 21 871214 5
SORCERER 15 851108 3
SPACEZ 1 980710 6.15 5
SPELLBREA 87 860904 3
STARCROSS 17 821021 3
STATIONFA 107 870430 3
SUSPECT 14 841005 3
SUSPENDED 8 840521 3
TRINITY 12 860926 4
TROLL 3 980518 6.15 5
VIOLET 1 080929 6.31 8
WISHBRING 69 850920 3
WITNESS 22 840924 3
ZDUNGEON 13 040826 6.14 5
ZOKOBAN 1 990810 6.21 5
ZORK0 393 890714 6
ZORK1 88 840726 3
ZORK2 48 840904 3
ZORK3 17 840727 3
ZTUU 16 970828 6.13 5
905 1 000210 6.21 5
ZTREK 1 000229 6.21 5
.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
9:36 a.m.
Well, I sure would appreciate anything you guys have got. I think we
should probably get it all together and put it some place for safe keeping
... and I'd love to play with it and put it on the BBS!
I'd also love to try to help. Not that I know anything about things like,
er, FORTRAN any more. I have problems accessing memories from when I was
13 -- 33 years later.
I should do something mad and say -- "I'm going to write a TCP stack for
RSTS/E..." but I have no idea how to do such a thing. I should say it
though. It's more likely than my other dreams, of becoming an astronomer,
or a rock star or novelist.
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift
9:40 a.m.
On 2015-05-08 15:36, John Many Jars wrote:
Well, I sure would appreciate anything you guys have
got. I think we
should probably get it all together and put it some place for safe keeping
... and I'd love to play with it and put it on the BBS!
I'd also love to try to help. Not that I know anything about things like,
er, FORTRAN any more. I have problems accessing memories from when I was
13 -- 33 years later.
I should do something mad and say -- "I'm going to write a TCP stack for
RSTS/E..." but I have no idea how to do such a thing. I should say it
though. It's more likely than my other dreams, of becoming an astronomer,
or a rock star or novelist.
How about start by grabbing ZEMU, and make it run properly on RSTS/E then?
Once you have that done, we could get back to the TCP/IP thing... ;-)
Johnny
11:41 a.m.
On 8 May 2015 at 14:40, Johnny Billquist <bqt at update.uu.se> wrote:
How about start by grabbing ZEMU, and make it run properly on RSTS/E then?
Once you have that done, we could get back to the TCP/IP thing... ;-)
See, if I had tcp/ip, I'd move the whole BBS into RSTS. (:
Okay, I'm game. What is it written in? ...and where may I find it? I
thought someone said they already had it working?
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift
12:27 p.m.
On 2015-05-08 17:41, John Many Jars wrote:
On 8 May 2015 at 14:40, Johnny Billquist <bqt at
update.uu.se> wrote:
It's written in MACRO-11. You can find it at
ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/pdp11/zemu.tgz
And noone have yet given me any actual information/code/whatever for
getting it working under RSTS/E.
Johnny
How about start by grabbing ZEMU, and make it run properly on RSTS/E then?
Once you have that done, we could get back to the TCP/IP thing... ;-)
See, if I had tcp/ip, I'd move the whole BBS into RSTS. (:
Okay, I'm game. What is it written in? ...and where may I find it? I
thought someone said they already had it working?
12:40 p.m.
On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at update.uu.se> wrote:
On 2015-05-08 17:41, John Many Jars wrote:
> Okay, I'm game. What is it written in? ...and where may I find it? I
> thought someone said they already had it working?
There's been a flurry of traffic and at least one assumption made.
What I posted that I said I have is the original Infocom RT-11 engine,
decompiled to Macro-11 source that someone sent me. The original
compiles just fine on real RT-11, but I did a one-line hack at VCF
East 8 to allow it to compile and run on RSTS. ZEMU is an entirely
different thing, also Macro-11 source, and has been successfully
compiled on RT-11 and RSX-11 but not yet (as far as anyone knows)
compiled and run under RT-11 emulation on RSTS/E. I am away from my
repositories for the weekend, so I can't just peek and see what's
where. If nobody grabs ZEMU source and tries it out on RSTS in the
next few days, I'll be free again next week to see where things stand.
Also, AFAIK, the Infocom-written Z-machine I have plays V3 games only
(there are only 1 or 2 V1 or V2 files anyway). ZEMU plays V1-V8 and
will likely provide a nicer experience.
-ethan
12:47 p.m.
On 2015-05-08 18:40, Ethan Dicks wrote:
On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Johnny Billquist
<bqt at update.uu.se> wrote:
Right. My mistake.
On 2015-05-08 17:41, John Many Jars wrote:
> Okay, I'm game. What is it written in? ...and where may I find it? I
> thought someone said they already had it working?
There's been a flurry of traffic and at least one assumption made. What I posted that I said I have is the original
Infocom RT-11 engine,
decompiled to Macro-11 source that someone sent me. The original
compiles just fine on real RT-11, but I did a one-line hack at VCF
East 8 to allow it to compile and run on RSTS.
Yup. Nice that you have it, though.
ZEMU is an entirely
different thing, also Macro-11 source, and has been successfully
compiled on RT-11 and RSX-11 but not yet (as far as anyone knows)
compiled and run under RT-11 emulation on RSTS/E. I am away from my
repositories for the weekend, so I can't just peek and see what's
where. If nobody grabs ZEMU source and tries it out on RSTS in the
next few days, I'll be free again next week to see where things stand.
If someone could find out if it works, or fix it so that it does work,
it would be wonderful.
Also, AFAIK, the Infocom-written Z-machine I have
plays V3 games only
(there are only 1 or 2 V1 or V2 files anyway). ZEMU plays V1-V8 and
will likely provide a nicer experience.
Actually, V1 and V2 games are the ones I have definitely not tested. As
you say - there aren't that many. So, if you actually do have one, be
warned that the ZEMU code is untested. That said, any bugs should be
easy to fix...
I believe that only a very early version of Zork I was ever released
using the V1 version of the Z-machine. Zork II might have existed in a
release for V2, but I think pretty much everything else is V3 or later,
and Zork I and II were released in V3 format as well.
Johnny
11:16 a.m.
On May 7, 2015, at 8:34 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt
at update.uu.se> wrote:
On 2015-05-07 20:41, Ethan Dicks wrote:
On that ?extra system call? ? is that because RT-11 emulation on RSTS assigns an RT11
memory limit based on information in the executable file? If so, you can work around that
by switching into the RT11 runtime system, issuing the command ?SI 28? then run the
program.
paul
...
If you are looking for games you _can_ play, a couple of years ago at
VCFe, I hacked one of the RT-11 Z-Machines to run on RSTS/E (it needed
one extra system call to do with memory allocation) so we could play
Zork, Planetfall, etc., on Dave McGuire's PDP-11/70. If you wanted
that I could try to dig it up. You just need a fistful of .Z3 files
to play, then.
I would guess that would be ZEMU? Do you have the RSTS/E fixes around. I have been hoping
for ages that someone would just try and get it running under RSTS/E, since then I could
incorporate those fixes into the distribution as well.
12:10 p.m.
On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
On that ?extra system call? ? is that because RT-11
emulation on RSTS
assigns an RT11 memory limit based on information in the executable file?
That seems right.
If so, you can work around that by switching into the
RT11 runtime system,
issuing the command ?SI 28? then run the program.
Ah... did not know that (I was never a RSTS/E hacker back in the day -
we had v6, v7, v8 and v9 at work for supporting our few remaining RSTS
customers and our accounting department in 1985) but I myself didn't
do much on the systems that wasn't previously delved and documented.
I've done a *lot* more on RSX-11 and RT-11 (including serious
development).
Thanks for that tip. I may have to bust out a RSTS implementation on
Simh to try things out.
-ethan
11:27 a.m.
On 5/7/2015 12:40 PM, John Many Jars wrote:
Anyone got any RT11/RSTS-E games? I'm back on
with my project to recreate
the PDP-11 that I goofed around with when I was a kid. (Its accessible via
the bbs... bbs.cortex-media.info 4223)
I have 2.52 version of Dungeon, and a version of Star Trek. Anyone got
anything else?
I'm still looking for Oregon Software Pascal as well...
Thanks!
Mark
This is more in the vein of RSTS/E and VAX-11 games but does anyone have a copy of the Dan
Lawrence DND? It used to be hosted on <http://dnd.lunaticsworld.com/> but that
site's server crashed and the files were lost and the ownder did not allow the Wayback
to archive it.
I wasted so much time on that at school at Rose-Hulman. A Rose student also did a lot of
modifications to our copy. I had a tape with it once but it was destroyed by accident.
Please contact me if you have or know where any versions might be available. Thanks!
John H. Reinhardt
12:03 p.m.
On May 8, 2015, at 8:27 AM, "John H. Reinhardt" <johnhreinhardt at
yahoo.com> wrote:
This is more in the vein of RSTS/E and VAX-11 games
but does anyone have a copy of the Dan Lawrence DND? It used to be hosted on
<http://dnd.lunaticsworld.com/> but that site's server crashed and the files
were lost and the ownder did not allow the Wayback to archive it.
I wasted so much time on that at school at Rose-Hulman. A Rose student also did a lot of
modifications to our copy. I had a tape with it once but it was destroyed by accident.
Please contact me if you have or know where any versions might be available. Thanks!
John H. Reinhardt
I had better still have a copy for VAX/VMS. Though the system it is on, may be on
that's only accessible via DECNET, and I'm not sure what is needed to bring up
either of my VMS boxes. I didn't think there was a PDP-11 version on the website, but
I may be wrong. It may also have been a PDP-10 version I was trying to find.
I love that game! :-) It's one of my main reasons for keeping a VAX running! :-)
Zane
12:22 p.m.
On May 8, 2015, at 8:27 AM, "John H. Reinhardt" <johnhreinhardt at
yahoo.com>
wrote:
This is more in the vein of RSTS/E and VAX-11 games
but
does anyone have a copy of the Dan Lawrence DND?? It
used to be hosted on <http://dnd.lunaticsworld.com/> but that site's
server crashed and the files were lost and the ownder did
not allow the Wayback to archive it.
I wasted so much time on that at school at
Rose-Hulman.? A Rose student also did a lot of
modifications to our copy. I had a tape with it once but it
was destroyed by accident.
Is that the one Dan Day worked on? I'm pretty sure he did that
before I got there, but as I remember the story, he played the
game and got to the point where there wasn't really an endgame.
So he wrote a FORTRAN decompiler to turn the binary into source
that he could modify, wrote an endgame, and then recompiled
the results.
BLS
2:05 p.m.
On 5/8/2015 12:22 PM, Brian L. Stuart wrote:
On May 8, 2015, at 8:27 AM, "John H.
Reinhardt" <johnhreinhardt at yahoo.com>
wrote:
Brian, Yep! I got a copy on magtape before I left Rose but I made the mistake of
leaving the tape unguarded when I was working at Flour-Fernald here in Cincinnati and an
operator in the computer room initialized it. :(
Dan had written a town into it and there were 4 or 5 different dungeons you could explore
by going back to town. That part was experimental AFAIK and you had to know someone to
get to play it. I never did.
It sure would have been nice if someone would have archived all the software at Rose
before the PDP and VAX left.
John H. Reinhardt
This is more in the vein of RSTS/E and VAX-11
games but
does anyone have a copy of the Dan Lawrence DND? It
used to be hosted on <http://dnd.lunaticsworld.com/> but that site's
server crashed and the files were lost and the ownder did
not allow the Wayback to archive it.
I wasted so much time on that at school at
Rose-Hulman. A Rose student also did a lot of
modifications to our copy. I had a tape with it once but it
was destroyed by accident.
Is that the one Dan Day worked on? I'm pretty sure he did that
before I got there, but as I remember the story, he played the
game and got to the point where there wasn't really an endgame.
So he wrote a FORTRAN decompiler to turn the binary into source
that he could modify, wrote an endgame, and then recompiled
the results.
BLS
3340
days inactive
3341
days old
28 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
blstuart＠bellsouth.net -
bqt＠update.uu.se -
cctalk＠beyondthepale.ie -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
john＠yoyodyne-propulsion.net -
johnhreinhardt＠yahoo.com -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
lbickley＠bickleywest.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
useddec＠gmail.com -
wilson＠dbit.com