18 Jan
2007
18 Jan
'07
11:16 a.m.
The machines and common cards will be, but drivers and
exotic
hardware/software will be long gone. It is hard to find drivers for some
things now let alone in 20 years.
So the question is what should be saved? Is there something about the
'exotic hardware/software' that is historically significant?
Was enough information released that you could actually do something with
the device in the future?
18 Jan
18 Jan
11:54 a.m.
In article <45AF9D43.4050800 at bitsavers.org>,
Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> writes:
So the question is what should be saved? Is there
something about the
'exotic hardware/software' that is historically significant?
Well, if you adopt the "only historically significant" things are to
be collected mantra, you never would have had something like the Henry
Ford Museum in Michigan. *All* of the stuff he amassed for that
collection was considered not historically significant at the time.
Now its amazing to be able to walk down an aisle and see the evolution
of the sewing machine, or the dishwasher or the clothes washer/dryer,
etc.
I think there are some things you can say have obvious historical
value. Others aren't historically significant *by themselves* but
allow you to make a realistic historical portait because they
represent samples of devices over time.
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3:29 p.m.
Well, if you adopt the "only historically
significant" things are to
be collected mantra, you never would have had something like the Henry
Ford Museum in Michigan. *All* of the stuff he amassed for that
collection was considered not historically significant at the time.
Now its amazing to be able to walk down an aisle and see the evolution
of the sewing machine, or the dishwasher or the clothes washer/dryer,
etc.
Keep in mind, however, that the artifacts that he did save are the
better examples from the group - it was not picked willy-nilly. For
example, with the stoves, the timeline has the upper tier stuff (like
the Chambers slate lined oven from 1948) rather than being overrun
with crappy no-name brands.
The same is true for computer collections. Yes, you could collect
every model of PDP-11, but when it comes down to it, only a few really
are worthwhile for the long run. And now the room is filled with
PDP-11s, and you can not fit a PDP-10 in the collection.
--
Will
4:15 p.m.
In article <e1d20d630701181229q14dcadfcx4b2514eaa352a0 at mail.gmail.com>,
"William Donzelli" <wdonzelli at gmail.com> writes:
Keep in mind, however, that the artifacts that he did
save are the
better examples from the group - it was not picked willy-nilly. [...]
True and on a more personal example, I generally skip over the Wyse
and Boundless terminals because they are all visually
indistinguishable from one another. They are from that period in the
development of the terminal when they were primarily used in a legacy
mode or in a cost-conscious mode. In either case, there is no
incentive to making a grander terminal, but instead the incentive is
all for minimizing the cost of production. So they all tend to be
highly integrated circuit boards that fit entirely in the CRT
enclosure with the enclosure not being much larger than the tube
itself. The keyboards have also become standardized in a consistent
layout between manufacturers at that time, so there's no room to
innovate there. The terminal had become a commodity by then and it
was all about manufacturing cost and margin and not functionality.
The X terminal took up the role of the innovative product for a while,
but even there it has become a commodity product now -- either as an X
terminal or as a Windows thinclient.
But still, someone had to be paying enough attention to identify that
stoves *should* be put aside somewhere as a document of the evolving
technological landscape. At the time, even for the good items, I'm
sure people looked at him weird like "dude, why are you collecting
stoves?".
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<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
4:33 p.m.
But still, someone had to be paying enough attention
to identify that
stoves *should* be put aside somewhere as a document of the evolving
technological landscape. At the time, even for the good items, I'm
sure people looked at him weird like "dude, why are you collecting
stoves?".
When you have been in the collecting biz as long as I have, you will
find that there is always someone, somewhere, collecting anything you
can think of. And then they show you the newsletter of the collecting
group they belong to...
I can not think of anything that is not collected, modern or otherwise.
Also, things on the top tier, like Chambers ovens, are almost always
saved. People just hate to throw away something they spent so much
money on.
--
Will
4:45 p.m.
In article <e1d20d630701181333p154b298bw575358d196bc80ab at mail.gmail.com>,
"William Donzelli" <wdonzelli at gmail.com> writes:
I can not think of anything that is not collected,
modern or otherwise.
Sure. Now. But I don't think collecting housewares was common in
Henry Ford's day.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
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Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
5:37 p.m.
In article <e1d20d630701181408t10c4f66cu3d6c83b5d44592e7 at mail.gmail.com>,
"William Donzelli" <wdonzelli at gmail.com> writes:
That's what I mean -- few people collected them at the time for
collecting's sake. If you're getting objects for utilitarian
purposes, I don't think that qualifies as "collecting".
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
Sure. Now.
But I don't think collecting housewares was common in
Henry Ford's day.
Think again.
Actually, more people collected everyday objects back then, but not
for collecting's sake - they used them.
5:50 p.m.
That's what I mean -- few people collected them at
the time for
collecting's sake. If you're getting objects for utilitarian
purposes, I don't think that qualifies as "collecting".
Well, no, but for Ford (and others), it meant for much easier pickings.
Henry Ford was not the only one to do this, but he is the most well
known. Shelburne museum is also well known, and almost as big. There
are also dozens of smaller groups around the country as well, and when
you read the histories of how they came to be, more than a few were
started by some nut that could not throw away anything. Like us.
--
Will
5:59 p.m.
In article <e1d20d630701181450n1e45d370t7e85270bd7948f6 at mail.gmail.com>,
"William Donzelli" <wdonzelli at gmail.com> writes:
Because noone else seems interested in terminals, I get "easy
pickings" sometimes too. The most interesting terminal I have cost me
99 cents :-). My ESV workstations were free.
That's
what I mean -- few people collected them at the time for
collecting's sake. If you're getting objects for utilitarian
purposes, I don't think that qualifies as "collecting".
Well, no, but for Ford (and others), it meant for much easier pickings. Henry Ford was not the only one to do this, but he is
the most well
known. Shelburne museum is also well known, and almost as big.
You mean this one? <http://www.shelburnemuseum.org/collections/>
They seem like more of an art/craft museum than an artifact museum.
There
are also dozens of smaller groups around the country as well, and when
you read the histories of how they came to be, more than a few were
started by some nut that could not throw away anything. Like us.
Heh heh.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
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Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
7:57 p.m.
You mean this one?
<http://www.shelburnemuseum.org/collections/>
They seem like more of an art/craft museum than an artifact museum.
They certainly have lots of arts and crafts, but they also have lots
of other stuff, too. Their tool building has something like 10,000
tools in it. And then their are the railroad lanterns...
--
Will
19 Jan
19 Jan
11:50 a.m.
In article <e1d20d630701181657y2995fc4bi72ed51967c2c1b0d at mail.gmail.com>,
"William Donzelli" <wdonzelli at gmail.com> writes:
Alright, I like railroad stuff. We have a few railroad museums here
in Utah and of course there's the Golden Spike National Monument.
Unfortunately I don't think I'm going to be in CT anytime soon...
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
You mean this
one? <http://www.shelburnemuseum.org/collections/>
They seem like more of an art/craft museum than an artifact museum.
They certainly have lots of arts and crafts, but they also have lots
of other stuff, too. Their tool building has something like 10,000
tools in it. And then their are the railroad lanterns... 
9:21 p.m.
Richard wrote:
In article
<e1d20d630701181657y2995fc4bi72ed51967c2c1b0d at mail.gmail.com>,
"William Donzelli" <wdonzelli at gmail.com> writes:
Alright, I like railroad stuff. We have a few railroad museums here
in Utah and of course there's the Golden Spike National Monument.
Unfortunately I don't think I'm going to be in CT anytime soon...
eh... VT.. not CT...
Been to the museum... they have LOTs of stuff that I don't think I've seen
anywhere else (not that I particularly went looking though :-) ).
If anyone is into that kind of museum, budget a lot of time to see what
Shelburne Museum has to offer....
I did like the Ticonderoga (steamship... ON LAND !)
ok... nuff off topic...
nobody going to answer my Qs regarding CQD-220A/TM jumper
info from bitsavers ? (to bring it back on topic)
-- Curt
You mean
this one? <http://www.shelburnemuseum.org/collections/>
They seem like more of an art/craft museum than an artifact museum.
They certainly have lots of arts and crafts, but they also have lots
of other stuff, too. Their tool building has something like 10,000
tools in it. And then their are the railroad lanterns...
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