2 Feb
2012
2 Feb
'12
7:11 a.m.
Since prices for origianl (old) double size QBUS Boards are exploding now
and my friends and me wanting to play anyways, we decided to make our own
Experimental Board now:
http://www.robotrontechnik.de/html/forum/thwb/showtopic.php?threadid=8008
Prices are heavyly depending on the number of boards made, so I anyone
want's one or mor, please mail me or my friend redhead.kc85 at t-online.de.
Planned is gold plating and solder stop laquer and signal description
on the Bus pins. Boards where mady in germany, not the lowest prices
but quality is guaranteed.
We don't have the DEC DC00* Chips, so here are on your own, sorry.
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
2 Feb
2 Feb
9:33 a.m.
On Thu, Feb 02, 2012 at 01:11:01PM +0100, Holm Tiffe wrote:
Prices are heavyly depending on the number of boards made, so I anyone
want's one or mor, please mail me or my friend redhead.kc85 at t-online.de.
Planned is gold plating and solder stop laquer and signal description
on the Bus pins. Boards where mady in germany, not the lowest prices
but quality is guaranteed.
I'm kind of interested. Could you ballpark the cost?
Also, would two of these fit in the PDP-8 Omnibus ?
Regards,
Pontus.
10:55 a.m.
On 02/02/2012 07:11 AM, Holm Tiffe wrote:
Since prices for origianl (old) double size QBUS
Boards are exploding now
and my friends and me wanting to play anyways, we decided to make our own
Experimental Board now:
http://www.robotrontechnik.de/html/forum/thwb/showtopic.php?threadid=8008
Prices are heavyly depending on the number of boards made, so I anyone
want's one or mor, please mail me or my friend redhead.kc85 at t-online.de.
Planned is gold plating and solder stop laquer and signal description
on the Bus pins. Boards where mady in germany, not the lowest prices
but quality is guaranteed.
We don't have the DEC DC00* Chips, so here are on your own, sorry.
Yes, definitely! I'm interested in a small quantity of them,
depending on where the pricing lands.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
New Kensington, PA
7:09 p.m.
New subject: Yes - Re: Who is interested in double sized PDP11/QBUS universal boards?
On 02/02/12 10:55 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 02/02/2012 07:11 AM, Holm Tiffe wrote:
Same here, I'd speak for 2-5 depending on the final price.
--Toby
Since prices for origianl (old) double size QBUS
Boards are exploding now
and my friends and me wanting to play anyways, we decided to make our own
Experimental Board now:
http://www.robotrontechnik.de/html/forum/thwb/showtopic.php?threadid=8008
Prices are heavyly depending on the number of boards made, so I anyone
want's one or mor, please mail me or my friend redhead.kc85 at t-online.de.
Planned is gold plating and solder stop laquer and signal description
on the Bus pins. Boards where mady in germany, not the lowest prices
but quality is guaranteed.
We don't have the DEC DC00* Chips, so here are on your own, sorry.
Yes, definitely! I'm interested in a small quantity of them, depending
on where the pricing lands.
-Dave
11:37 a.m.
In article <20120202121101.GB30041 at pegasus.freiberg-net.de>,
Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> writes:
Since prices for origianl (old) double size QBUS
Boards are exploding now
and my friends and me wanting to play anyways, we decided to make our own
Experimental Board now:
http://www.robotrontechnik.de/html/forum/thwb/showtopic.php?threadid=8008
Does Q-bus really require that the edge card fingers are angled like
shown in your picture?
Oh, and the site you chose to share the picture pops up webcam porn
ads when I go to look at the picture. I suggest you use something
else that isn't trying to throw porn in my face just to look at your
board layout.
Prices are heavyly depending on the number of boards
made, so I anyone
want's one or mor, please mail me or my friend redhead.kc85 at t-online.de.
Have you looked at batchpcb.com?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 version available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
1:46 p.m.
Richard wrote:
No.
BTW: This is a non profit price, we wan't such boards to have fun with
PDP-11's, not to make money.
I never seen a PDP-8 in nature, so please one of the people that know this
should answer the guy in the other mail above if the boards would fit to an
PDP-8, I simply don't know...
Kind Reards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
In article <20120202121101.GB30041 at pegasus.freiberg-net.de>,
Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> writes:
No it doesn't. But the russians done that with theyr QBUS Board copies
and it works out really good. (Their boards are metric sized, they wouldn't
fit)
Since prices for origianl (old) double size QBUS
Boards are exploding now
and my friends and me wanting to play anyways, we decided to make our own
Experimental Board now:
http://www.robotrontechnik.de/html/forum/thwb/showtopic.php?threadid=8008
Does Q-bus really require that the edge card fingers are angled like
shown in your picture?
Oh, and the site you chose to share the picture pops up webcam porn
ads when I go to look at the picture. I suggest you use something
else that isn't trying to throw porn in my face just to look at your
board layout.
Ah ok, I'll make a copy and load it on my own server. I'll mail this to my
friend.
Prices are heavyly depending on the number of
boards made, so I anyone
want's one or mor, please mail me or my friend redhead.kc85 at t-online.de.
Have you looked at batchpcb.com? --
[..]
Ive mailed this to an other guy some minutes before, I'll simply copying
some sentences here:
I would like
to know the price range, including shipping to the US for
one and for two boards.
Shipping isn't really a problem from here to the US (the other way around
really is a problem when I look at ebay, approx $45 for an 11/03 CPU from
the US to germany..), we have an "registered international Letter" wich
should be work out approx 5,50 Euros (Euro x 1.32 = US$) for 2 PCBs,
(even more bords, the Letter with a weight below 500 gramms costs 3,45 Euro
+ 2,05 Euro additional for the registering and insurance for approx 43
Euros
(the last from the memory, since such a parcel from me got lost at USPS in
the US in the past).
My Friend made the following statement:
"Ich wollte mir 5 St?ck Q-Bus Lochrasterplatinen als Prototyp anfertigen
lassen. Das ist nicht so wirklich billig.
Als Kleinserie lohnt sich das bereits ab 10 St?ck. Dann kostet die Platine
je 39 Euro. Dann sogar inklusive L?tstopp, Aufdruck, Gold und anfasen.
Interessenten haben sich auch schon gemeldet. Mit meinen 5 Platinen sind es
schon 12 St?ck. Ab 18 St?ck sind es nur noch 27 Euro. Je mehr desto
billiger wirds."
That meansi, that he wanted to make 5 boards for himself and that isn't
really cheap. A small batch ~10 pcs will be 39 Euros each with the solder
stopping laquer, the component print (signal numbers) gold plated and
an chamfered conncetor.
With an order over 18 peaces the price is 27 Euros. Wer are currently at 15
peaces. (I take two, maybe one more..)
We know that is not cheap in any regard, thats why we are looking for
people that wanting such boards also to order more.... 
3 Feb
3 Feb
2:04 a.m.
Hi
The angled edge connectors are to decrease the insertion/extraction
force. The DEC engineers used to do that to their extension boards.
I see no reason why they would not fit a PDP8. Provided you know where the
Omibus signals are.
PS does any body know where in the UK I can beg or borrow a processor board
set for a PDP8/e. I have memory loading fault on my 8/e that?s not n the
memory.
?
Rod Smallwood
?
?
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Holm Tiffe
Sent: 02 February 2012 18:46
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Who is interested in double sized PDP11/QBUS universal boards?
Richard wrote:
No.
BTW: This is a non profit price, we wan't such boards to have fun with
PDP-11's, not to make money.
I never seen a PDP-8 in nature, so please one of the people that know this
should answer the guy in the other mail above if the boards would fit to an
PDP-8, I simply don't know...
Kind Reards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
In article <20120202121101.GB30041 at pegasus.freiberg-net.de>,
Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> writes:
> Since prices for origianl (old) double size QBUS Boards are exploding
now
> and my friends and me wanting to play anyways, we
decided to make our
own
> Experimental Board now:
>
>
http://www.robotrontechnik.de/html/forum/thwb/showtopic.php?threadid=8008
Does Q-bus really require that the edge card fingers are angled like
shown in your picture?
No it doesn't. But the russians done that with theyr QBUS Board copies
and it works out really good. (Their boards are metric sized, they wouldn't
fit)
Oh, and the site you chose to share the picture pops up webcam porn
ads when I go to look at the picture. I suggest you use something
else that isn't trying to throw porn in my face just to look at your
board layout.
Ah ok, I'll make a copy and load it on my own server. I'll mail this to my
friend.
Prices are heavyly depending on the number of
boards made, so I anyone
want's one or mor, please mail me or my friend redhead.kc85 at t-online.de.
Have you looked at batchpcb.com? --
[..]
Ive mailed this to an other guy some minutes before, I'll simply copying
some sentences here:
I would like
to know the price range, including shipping to the US for
one and for two boards.
Shipping isn't really a problem from here to the US (the other way around
really is a problem when I look at ebay, approx $45 for an 11/03 CPU from
the US to germany..), we have an "registered international Letter" wich
should be work out approx 5,50 Euros (Euro x 1.32 = US$) for 2 PCBs,
(even more bords, the Letter with a weight below 500 gramms costs 3,45 Euro
+ 2,05 Euro additional for the registering and insurance for approx 43
Euros
(the last from the memory, since such a parcel from me got lost at USPS in
the US in the past).
My Friend made the following statement:
"Ich wollte mir 5 St?ck Q-Bus Lochrasterplatinen als Prototyp anfertigen
lassen. Das ist nicht so wirklich billig.
Als Kleinserie lohnt sich das bereits ab 10 St?ck. Dann kostet die Platine
je 39 Euro. Dann sogar inklusive L?tstopp, Aufdruck, Gold und anfasen.
Interessenten haben sich auch schon gemeldet. Mit meinen 5 Platinen sind es
schon 12 St?ck. Ab 18 St?ck sind es nur noch 27 Euro. Je mehr desto
billiger wirds."
That meansi, that he wanted to make 5 boards for himself and that isn't
really cheap. A small batch ~10 pcs will be 39 Euros each with the solder
stopping laquer, the component print (signal numbers) gold plated and
an chamfered conncetor.
With an order over 18 peaces the price is 27 Euros. Wer are currently at 15
peaces. (I take two, maybe one more..)
We know that is not cheap in any regard, thats why we are looking for
people that wanting such boards also to order more.... 
2 Feb
2 Feb
1:58 p.m.
hello,
it is a good idea,but do you know this:
http://www.douglas.com/hardware/pcbs/breadboards/digital.html
some months ago ,I made several circuit boards to reproduce the leningrad
computer,a zx spectrum machine ,I paid 10 euro/board,I had to order
five,their dimension is 22cm*11cm
you can see them here:
www.radio-astronomie.com/leningrad.htm
best regards
a.nierveze
----- Original Message -----
From: "Holm Tiffe" <holm at freibergnet.de>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 1:11 PM
Subject: Who is interested in double sized PDP11/QBUS universal boards?
Since prices for origianl (old) double size QBUS
Boards are exploding now
and my friends and me wanting to play anyways, we decided to make our own
Experimental Board now:
http://www.robotrontechnik.de/html/forum/thwb/showtopic.php?threadid=8008
Prices are heavyly depending on the number of boards made, so I anyone
want's one or mor, please mail me or my friend redhead.kc85 at t-online.de.
Planned is gold plating and solder stop laquer and signal description
on the Bus pins. Boards where mady in germany, not the lowest prices
but quality is guaranteed.
We don't have the DEC DC00* Chips, so here are on your own, sorry.
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
3 Feb
3 Feb
7 a.m.
nierveze wrote:
hello,
it is a good idea,but do you know this:
http://www.douglas.com/hardware/pcbs/breadboards/digital.html
No, don't knew this site.
It looks that eighter the holes from the boards there arent plated trough
or there is no Gold connector involved or they have a smaller amount of
holes. Inkl. shipping I think that wouldn't work out cheaper that our own
boards. What we don't have is DEC like handles.
I don't kow where my friend is ordering the boards, but I do have some out
of it's hands here, know they are really good. (other things, network and
memory cards for old 8/16 bit computers from the former GDR and such ...)
some months ago ,I made several circuit boards to
reproduce the leningrad
computer,a zx spectrum machine ,I paid 10 euro/board,I had to order
five,their dimension is 22cm*11cm
Again, no gold plating here and we want some on the connector.
To decide if we would make such a board batch, we need to know who
want's how many boards. Before we actually ordering the PCBs we would
publish the exact costs incl. shipping.
So an statement like "I'll take 2-5 depending on price" isn't wery
helpful
here, how we should calculate this then?
We don't want to end with a big stock of such PCBs and have nothing left to
live.. (This is hobbyism only)
So please guys, mail me how many you want (with your full address please)
I'll add them up and will calculate the prices for the batch and the
shipping costs (below 500 gramms 5,50 Euro for all people of the world
with DHL, insured for ~43 Euros and registered with tracking number, please
don't ask what a boards weight is ..)
I'll mail back to any who want'S some for the final ok before the order.
Than it is at you to decide ok or not. After that you have to pay...
(Payment should be possible trough paypal/CC, but please add the paypal fees
to your costs, since this is a non profit job, ok?)
That's really a risk, I know, but we know that we are good guys, what about
you? (Below is my full address, try googling for my name or tiffitech and
tsht_de @ ebay...)
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
8:51 a.m.
On 03/02/12 7:00 AM, Holm Tiffe wrote:
nierveze wrote:
Oh, I'm well aware that you will have to be clever in the context of
inexact figures. Look at it from our end, though.
What I would do in this case, in order to help us (who don't have access
to your pricing formula) is compute a worst case (everyone takes their
minimum) and a best case (everyone takes their maximum). Then show these
two price points to the list *before* asking for a commitment.
Thanks.
hello,
it is a good idea,but do you know this:
http://www.douglas.com/hardware/pcbs/breadboards/digital.html
No, don't knew this site.
It looks that eighter the holes from the boards there arent plated trough
or there is no Gold connector involved or they have a smaller amount of
holes. Inkl. shipping I think that wouldn't work out cheaper that our own
boards. What we don't have is DEC like handles.
I don't kow where my friend is ordering the boards, but I do have some out
of it's hands here, know they are really good. (other things, network and
memory cards for old 8/16 bit computers from the former GDR and such ...)
some months ago ,I made several circuit boards to
reproduce the leningrad
computer,a zx spectrum machine ,I paid 10 euro/board,I had to order
five,their dimension is 22cm*11cm
Again, no gold plating here and we want some on the connector.
To decide if we would make such a board batch, we need to know who
want's how many boards. Before we actually ordering the PCBs we would
publish the exact costs incl. shipping.
So an statement like "I'll take 2-5 depending on price" isn't wery
helpful
here, how we should calculate this then? We don't want to end with a big stock of such PCBs
and have nothing left to
live.. (This is hobbyism only)
So please guys, mail me how many you want ...
--Toby
Regards,
Holm
3:35 p.m.
Toby Thain wrote:
On 03/02/12 7:00 AM, Holm Tiffe wrote:
Toby I'm already done what you suggested in the previous mails above.
We currently need 3 more boards ito sell to reach a price of 27 Euros/Board.
Remember: I must not sell. We want to give you a chance to get some boards
to und make our own a little bit cheaper. If I get a board additionaly to
the two that I wanted, there are still 2 left. It's not a big deal to sell
2 boards over ebay here if we have them left over.
I you don't trust me, let it be.
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
nierveze wrote:
Oh, I'm well aware that you will have to be clever in the context of
inexact figures. Look at it from our end, though.
What I would do in this case, in order to help us (who don't have access
to your pricing formula) is compute a worst case (everyone takes their
minimum) and a best case (everyone takes their maximum). Then show these
two price points to the list *before* asking for a commitment.
Thanks.
hello,
it is a good idea,but do you know this:
http://www.douglas.com/hardware/pcbs/breadboards/digital.html
No, don't knew this site.
It looks that eighter the holes from the boards there arent plated trough
or there is no Gold connector involved or they have a smaller amount of
holes. Inkl. shipping I think that wouldn't work out cheaper that our own
boards. What we don't have is DEC like handles.
I don't kow where my friend is ordering the boards, but I do have some out
of it's hands here, know they are really good. (other things, network and
memory cards for old 8/16 bit computers from the former GDR and such ...)
some months ago ,I made several circuit boards to
reproduce the leningrad
computer,a zx spectrum machine ,I paid 10 euro/board,I had to order
five,their dimension is 22cm*11cm
Again, no gold plating here and we want some on the connector.
To decide if we would make such a board batch, we need to know who
want's how many boards. Before we actually ordering the PCBs we would
publish the exact costs incl. shipping.
So an statement like "I'll take 2-5 depending on price" isn't wery
helpful
here, how we should calculate this then? We don't want to end with a big stock of such
PCBs and have nothing left to
live.. (This is hobbyism only)
So please guys, mail me how many you want ...
--Toby
>
>Regards,
>
>Holm
4 Feb
4 Feb
8:22 p.m.
On 03/02/12 3:35 PM, Holm Tiffe wrote:
...
We currently need 3 more boards ito sell to reach a price of 27 Euros/Board.
Remember: I must not sell. We want to give you a chance to get some boards
to und make our own a little bit cheaper. If I get a board additionaly to
the two that I wanted, there are still 2 left. It's not a big deal to sell
2 boards over ebay here if we have them left over.
I you don't trust me, let it be.
Of course I trust you -- that's not the issue :)
We have currently orders for 25 pcs, so the current
price is
27 Euros. More than 27 pcs 24 Euros, next is 36 pcs. 21 Euros.
US Dollar to Euro is currently 1,316:1 (yahoo currency converter)
Please put me down for 3 boards.
If it gets to EUR 21, I'll take four...
--Toby
Regards,
Holm
5 Feb
5 Feb
8:18 a.m.
Toby Thain wrote:
On 03/02/12 3:35 PM, Holm Tiffe wrote:
Ok, added your boards up...
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
...
We currently need 3 more boards ito sell to reach a price of 27
Euros/Board.
Remember: I must not sell. We want to give you a chance to get some boards
to und make our own a little bit cheaper. If I get a board additionaly to
the two that I wanted, there are still 2 left. It's not a big deal to sell
2 boards over ebay here if we have them left over.
I you don't trust me, let it be.
Of course I trust you -- that's not the issue :)
We have currently orders for 25 pcs, so the
current price is
27 Euros. More than 27 pcs 24 Euros, next is 36 pcs. 21 Euros.
US Dollar to Euro is currently 1,316:1 (yahoo currency converter)
Please put me down for 3 boards.
If it gets to EUR 21, I'll take four...
--Toby
>
>Regards,
>
>Holm
> 
11:57 a.m.
New subject: PDP 11/83 SLU - pin outs for J1 and J2
I have looked high and low it seems for documents that detail
the pinout of J1 on a KDJ11-B cpu module. The manual I have
shows that J1 is the SLU connection and J2 is for baud rate and
status LED's. I have SLU's for MicroVAX II's and 3800's. Both
of these have the right pin counts but by no means indicates the pinout
is compatible. Pinout diagrams would prevent me from letting out
the magic smoke on my only 11/83 CPU module.
Please could someone help.
Thanks,
Dan Snyder
Butler, PA USA
3:39 p.m.
New subject: PDP 11/83 SLU - pin outs for J1 and J2
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Daniel Snyder <ddsnyder at zoominternet.net> wrote:
I have looked high and low it seems for documents that
detail
the pinout of J1 on a KDJ11-B cpu module. The manual I have
shows that J1 is the SLU connection and J2 is for baud rate and
status LED's. I have SLU's for MicroVAX II's and 3800's. Both
of these have the right pin counts but by no means indicates the pinout
is compatible. Pinout diagrams would prevent me from letting out the magic
smoke on my only 11/83 CPU module.
Some references:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1173/EK-KDJ1B-UG_KDJ11-B_Nov86.pdf
Page 2-3, Figure 2-2, Pin Assignments for Connectors J2 and J3
Page 2-4, Table 2-2, J2 and J3 Connectors
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1184/EK-1184A-TM-PR2_May85.pdf
Page E-2, To J1 on KDJ11-B (CPU) <-> CONSOLE DIST BOARD
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/qbus/EB-23144-18_QbusIntrfs_1983.pdf
Page 284, 4. Pin out on the 2x5 pin connector block on the DLV11-J
Pin 2, Pin 5, Pin 9 Signal ground tied together, Connect to DB25 Pin 7
Pin 3 TRANSMIT DATA+ Connect to DB25 Pin 2 RXD
Pin 4 TRANSMIT DATA- Tied to signal ground (is this correct?)
Pin 7 RECEIVE DATA- Tied to signal ground
Pin 8 RECEIVE DATA+ Connect to DB25 Pin 3 RXD
Pin 10 +12V Connect (through resistor) DB25 Pin 20 DTR
Page 285, Figure 7, BC21B-05 Modem Cable
4:10 p.m.
New subject: PDP 11/83 SLU - pin outs for J1 and J2
On 05/02/2012 20:39, Glen Slick wrote:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1184/EK-1184A-TM-PR2_May85.pdf
Page E-2, To J1 on KDJ11-B (CPU)<-> CONSOLE DIST BOARD
That shows the normal pinout for similar SLUs on other processors an
serial cards.
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/qbus/EB-23144-18_QbusIntrfs_1983.pdf
Page 284, 4. Pin out on the 2x5 pin connector block on the DLV11-J
Pin 2, Pin 5, Pin 9 Signal ground tied together, Connect to DB25 Pin 7
Pin 3 TRANSMIT DATA+ Connect to DB25 Pin 2 RXD
typo: TxD :-)
Pin 4 TRANSMIT DATA- Tied to signal ground (is this
correct?)
Yes, that's common, it forces one side of the differential (RS422)
signal to ground, making it single-ended.
Pin 7 RECEIVE DATA- Tied to signal ground
Pin 8 RECEIVE DATA+ Connect to DB25 Pin 3 RXD
Pin 10 +12V Connect (through resistor) DB25 Pin 20 DTR
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
4:24 p.m.
New subject: PDP 11/83 SLU - pin outs for J1 and J2
Glen,
Thanks, once again proves I have eyes and cannot see.. I had these manuals
but did not see (read thoroughly).
Any info on the SLU for a MVII or MicroVAX 3800 in a BA215? These
are the SLU's I have. I also have a Fluke meter, paper and pencil as well
and
will prpbably ring out the cables and connectors.
Thanks again,
Dan Snyder
Butler, PA USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Slick" <glen.slick at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: PDP 11/83 SLU - pin outs for J1 and J2
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Daniel Snyder
<ddsnyder at zoominternet.net>
wrote:
I have looked high and low it seems for documents
that detail
the pinout of J1 on a KDJ11-B cpu module. The manual I have
shows that J1 is the SLU connection and J2 is for baud rate and
status LED's. I have SLU's for MicroVAX II's and 3800's. Both
of these have the right pin counts but by no means indicates the pinout
is compatible. Pinout diagrams would prevent me from letting out the
magic
smoke on my only 11/83 CPU module.
Some references:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1173/EK-KDJ1B-UG_KDJ11-B_Nov86.pdf
Page 2-3, Figure 2-2, Pin Assignments for Connectors J2 and J3
Page 2-4, Table 2-2, J2 and J3 Connectors
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1184/EK-1184A-TM-PR2_May85.pdf
Page E-2, To J1 on KDJ11-B (CPU) <-> CONSOLE DIST BOARD
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/qbus/EB-23144-18_QbusIntrfs_1983.pdf
Page 284, 4. Pin out on the 2x5 pin connector block on the DLV11-J
Pin 2, Pin 5, Pin 9 Signal ground tied together, Connect to DB25 Pin 7
Pin 3 TRANSMIT DATA+ Connect to DB25 Pin 2 RXD
Pin 4 TRANSMIT DATA- Tied to signal ground (is this correct?)
Pin 7 RECEIVE DATA- Tied to signal ground
Pin 8 RECEIVE DATA+ Connect to DB25 Pin 3 RXD
Pin 10 +12V Connect (through resistor) DB25 Pin 20 DTR
Page 285, Figure 7, BC21B-05 Modem Cable
6 Feb
6 Feb
12:02 p.m.
New subject: PDP 11/83 SLU - pin outs for J1 and J2
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Daniel Snyder <ddsnyder at zoominternet.net> wrote:
Glen,
Thanks, once again proves I have eyes and cannot see.. I had these manuals
but did not see (read thoroughly).
Any info on the SLU for a MVII or MicroVAX 3800 in a BA215? These
are the SLU's I have. I also have a Fluke meter, paper and pencil as well
and
will prpbably ring out the cables and connectors.
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/630/MP02071_630QB_Mar85.pdf
Page 58, Console Serial Line Interface
Page 59, LEDS and Configuration Connector
Page 85. SLU Module for M7608 (KA630)
The VAX 20-pin J2 connector does not appear to be compatible with the
KDJ11-B connector.
It shouldn't be too much work to build your own console cable with a
10-pin IDC connector. I have built a few of those to connect to
boards such as CMD CDQ-220 and others which have the same pinout as
the 10-pin DEC async connectors.
-Glen
5 Feb
5 Feb
3:50 p.m.
New subject: PDP 11/83 SLU - pin outs for J1 and J2
On 05/02/2012 16:57, Daniel Snyder wrote:
I have looked high and low it seems for documents that
detail
the pinout of J1 on a KDJ11-B cpu module. The manual I have
shows that J1 is the SLU connection and J2 is for baud rate and
status LED's. I have SLU's for MicroVAX II's and 3800's. Both
of these have the right pin counts but by no means indicates the pinout
is compatible. Pinout diagrams would prevent me from letting out the
magic smoke on my only 11/83 CPU module.
You're very unlikely to let any smoke out by connecting J1 incorrectly.
It's a 10-pin Berg connector and AFAIR is wired exactly the same as
the matching connectors on a KDF11-B, MXV11-A or -B, DLV11-J, etc.
The cable to the proper I/O panel is just a 10-way ribbon cable wired
pin-to-pin, but any console cable intended for any of the boards above
should be fine for a direct connection, and you can set baud rate etc
directly on the KDJ11-B DIP switches.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
3 Feb
3 Feb
12:08 p.m.
On Feb 3, 2012, at 7:00 AM, Holm Tiffe wrote:
They might offer that, but according to what I could make out of the French, it was a
one-month turnaround.
nierveze wrote:
Douglas' breadboards are reputed to be rather nice, but if I recall correctly, you are
right in that they are not just grids of holes. They have IC positions laid out, which
may not be to everyone's liking, but may be preferable to some people. They are also
not extremely cheap, especially with things like handles installed. I would be surprised
if they didn't have gold plated card edges, though.
You can always email and ask, though; I've used their layout software in the past and
have always found them to be quite responsive. I haven't ordered a board from them in
quite some time, though.
hello,
it is a good idea,but do you know this:
http://www.douglas.com/hardware/pcbs/breadboards/digital.html
No, don't knew this site.
It looks that eighter the holes from the boards there arent plated trough
or there is no Gold connector involved or they have a smaller amount of
holes. Inkl. shipping I think that wouldn't work out cheaper that our own
boards. What we don't have is DEC like handles.
I don't kow where my friend is ordering the boards, but I do have some out
of it's hands here, know they are really good. (other things, network and
memory cards for old 8/16 bit computers from the former GDR and such ...) some months
ago ,I made several circuit boards to reproduce the leningrad
computer,a zx spectrum machine ,I paid 10 euro/board,I had to order
five,their dimension is 22cm*11cm
Again, no gold plating here and we want some on the connector. So an statement like "I'll take 2-5 depending
on price" isn't wery helpful
here, how we should calculate this then?
We don't want to end with a big stock of such PCBs and have nothing left to
live.. (This is hobbyism only)
If you wind up with spares left over, ping me and I'll buy some. I'm not actively
planning anything, so I'm not actively looking to buy anything, but if you need to
move them, I'll gladly buy some of them so you're not under water. :-)
- Dave
3:43 p.m.
David Riley wrote:
Since we don't want to produce "masses", the left over boards will get to
Ebay Germany for sure. That's the smallest amount of hassle in this case,
sorry.
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
On Feb 3, 2012, at 7:00 AM, Holm Tiffe wrote:
Yes, I want to put a CPLD in a PLCC Socket on the board, so your described
layout is really not what I want (I have to mimicry the functionality of
the DEC Chipset, eg Vector Register and such in the CPLD)
nierveze wrote:
Douglas' breadboards are reputed to be rather nice, but if I recall correctly, you
are right in that they are not just grids of holes. They have IC positions laid out,
which may not be to everyone's liking, but may be preferable to some people. They are
also not extremely cheap, especially with things like handles installed. I would be
surprised if they didn't have gold plated card edges, though. hello,
it is a good idea,but do you know this:
http://www.douglas.com/hardware/pcbs/breadboards/digital.html
No, don't knew this site.
It looks that eighter the holes from the boards there arent plated trough
or there is no Gold connector involved or they have a smaller amount of
holes. Inkl. shipping I think that wouldn't work out cheaper that our own
boards. What we don't have is DEC like handles.
I don't kow where my friend is ordering the boards, but I do have some out
of it's hands here, know they are really good. (other things, network and
memory cards for old 8/16 bit computers from the former GDR and such ...)
You can always email and ask, though; I've used their layout software in the past and
have always found them to be quite responsive. I haven't ordered a board from them in
quite some time, though.
They might offer that, but according to what I could make out of the French, it was a
one-month turnaround.
Half the time is expected here, including shipping.
some
months ago ,I made several circuit boards to reproduce the leningrad
computer,a zx spectrum machine ,I paid 10 euro/board,I had to order
five,their dimension is 22cm*11cm
Again, no gold plating here and we want some on the connector. So an statement like "I'll take 2-5
depending on price" isn't wery helpful
here, how we should calculate this then?
We don't want to end with a big stock of such PCBs and have nothing left to
live.. (This is hobbyism only)
If you wind up with spares left over, ping me and I'll buy some. I'm not
actively planning anything, so I'm not actively looking to buy anything, but if you
need to move them, I'll gladly buy some of them so you're not under water. :-)
- Dave
4:10 p.m.
On Feb 3, 2012, at 3:43 PM, Holm Tiffe wrote:
Since we don't want to produce "masses",
the left over boards will get to
Ebay Germany for sure. That's the smallest amount of hassle in this case,
sorry.
No problem, just offering an avenue to offload any extras if you made them and if it would
be more convenient. Sounds like you already have one. :-)
- Dave
4:22 p.m.
Holm Tiffe wrote:
Since prices for origianl (old) double size QBUS
Boards are exploding now
and my friends and me wanting to play anyways, we decided to make our own
Experimental Board now:
http://www.robotrontechnik.de/html/forum/thwb/showtopic.php?threadid=8008
Prices are heavyly depending on the number of boards made, so I anyone
want's one or mor, please mail me or my friend redhead.kc85 at t-online.de.
Planned is gold plating and solder stop laquer and signal description
on the Bus pins. Boards where mady in germany, not the lowest prices
but quality is guaranteed.
We don't have the DEC DC00* Chips, so here are on your own, sorry.
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Answering my self :-)
My friend doesn't make boards for other people the first time,
we had Boards for other things from him at our community
www.robotrontechnik.de in the past. There where memory Boards for an
P8000, an Z8000 Unix Computer like the Zilog S8000, and a network board
and a generic IDE Interface (GIDE)for Z80 Systems from Robotron in the past.
It was my idea to ask here, since I tought somewone is interested here too.
PDP-11's wheren't used in the former GDR (at least not officially) so the
amount of Fans to this architecture in our Web Forum is small.
We had all the questions like them here on prices of the other boards to,
but in the Forum at Robotrontechnik.de. The process worked fine for all of
us.
We know, that the company that maked the PCBs in the past had good quality,
and please understand that we not asking companies all over the world to
make the cheapest possible boards now, since then we are the rougues that
maked the shit happen. Who want's to make a law suit against a company in
china or india?
So if you want such boards, mail me, my friend, or simply to that list how
many boards you want. I'll ad them up, calculate the actual price and will
ask back any single person that responded if I should place the order with
this amount to that price now. If I get the ok, prepaying trough paypal
should happen, we order the boards and we will ship them at least 2-3 days
after the arrival. Every person will get the tracking code for DHL.
As long as the parcel is below 500 Gramms, the shipping cost is fixed ad
5,50 Euros.
http://www.deutschepost.de/mlm.nf/dpag/briefe_ins_ausland/brief/index.html
Before someone is asking: DHL is Deutsche Post, there is no difference, at
least here in Germany.
As you can see, the postage for an 500 Gramms "Letter" is 3,45 Euros,
there is a "Weltweit verf?gbare Zusatzleistungen", the registering with
insurance for 2,05 Euros additionally, so it sums up to 5,50 Euros.
Packing is done for free from me, but sorry, that's alls what I want to
make for free, there is no credit until next year and there is no credit
until next week.
You have to look at the german page of "Deutschepost". they do have an
english verision on their site, but it simply doesn't work (dead link).
I don't want to get rich with your money but I don't want to loose money
also. We make no profit besides of the falling costs of our own boards if
we order more of them. We wanted to give you just a chance to get what we
will make. If you want no risk, than there is no fun so simple is this.
There is no such thing "free lunch".
We will wait until wednesday next week. I'll continue to answer questions.
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
4:26 p.m.
New subject: Other Image Location, was:Re: Who is interested in double sized PDP11/QBUS universal boards?
Since I've got some criticism about the free hoster, here is the image from
the board layout at my own page:
http://www.tiffe.de/images/DEC-board.jpg
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
4 Feb
4 Feb
5:46 a.m.
New subject: Other Image Location, was:Re: Who is interested in double sized PDP11/QBUS universal boards?
Holm Tiffe wrote:
Since I've got some criticism about the free
hoster, here is the image from
the board layout at my own page:
http://www.tiffe.de/images/DEC-board.jpg
Regards,
Holm
--
We have currently orders for 25 pcs, so the current price is
27 Euros. More than 27 pcs 24 Euros, next is 36 pcs. 21 Euros.
US Dollar to Euro is currently 1,316:1 (yahoo currency converter)
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
6:22 a.m.
New subject: Other Image Location, was:Re: Who is interested in double sized PDP11/QBUS universal boards?
Just a heads up, imgur.com is a real good image host! Minimal ads and
allows hotlinking also
On Feb 4, 2012 5:50 AM, "Holm Tiffe" <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
Holm Tiffe wrote:
Since I've got some criticism about the free
hoster, here is the image
from
the board layout at my own page:
http://www.tiffe.de/images/DEC-board.jpg
Regards,
Holm
--
We have currently orders for 25 pcs, so the current price is
27 Euros. More than 27 pcs 24 Euros, next is 36 pcs. 21 Euros.
US Dollar to Euro is currently 1,316:1 (yahoo currency converter)
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
7:21 a.m.
New subject: Other Image Location, was:Re: Who is interested in double sized PDP11/QBUS universal boards?
Gary Sparkes wrote:
Just a heads up, imgur.com is a real good image host!
Minimal ads and
allows hotlinking also
THX, Gary, but this isn't a problem.
I don't must pay for the traffic on www.tiffe.de.
On Feb 4, 2012 5:50 AM, "Holm Tiffe"
<holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
> Holm Tiffe wrote:
>
> > Since I've got some criticism about the free hoster, here is the image
> from
> > the board layout at my own page:
> >
> > http://www.tiffe.de/images/DEC-board.jpg
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Holm
> > --
>
> We have currently orders for 25 pcs, so the current price is
> 27 Euros. More than 27 pcs 24 Euros, next is 36 pcs. 21 Euros.
> US Dollar to Euro is currently 1,316:1 (yahoo currency converter)
>
> Regards,
>
> Holm
> --
> Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
> Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
> www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
>
>
We are currently at 27 peaces, so the price is down to 24 Euros/pcb.
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
7:35 a.m.
New subject: Other Image Location, was:Re: Who is interested in double sized PDP11/QBUS universal boards?
Good to hear too. Imgur is funded by minimal ads and premium accounts, but
hosting for images and having basic accounts is and will always be 100%
free. (Just a heads up for all who may need this service in the future).
On Feb 4, 2012 7:24 AM, "Holm Tiffe" <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
Gary Sparkes wrote:
Just a heads up, imgur.com is a real good image
host! Minimal ads and
allows hotlinking also
THX, Gary, but this isn't a problem.
I don't must pay for the traffic on www.tiffe.de.
On Feb 4, 2012 5:50 AM, "Holm Tiffe"
<holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
> Holm Tiffe wrote:
>
> > Since I've got some criticism about the free hoster, here is the
image
> from
> > the board layout at my own page:
> >
> > http://www.tiffe.de/images/DEC-board.jpg
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Holm
> > --
>
> We have currently orders for 25 pcs, so the current price is
> 27 Euros. More than 27 pcs 24 Euros, next is 36 pcs. 21 Euros.
> US Dollar to Euro is currently 1,316:1 (yahoo currency converter)
>
> Regards,
>
> Holm
> --
> Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
> Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
> www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
>
>
We are currently at 27 peaces, so the price is down to 24 Euros/pcb.
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
12:21 p.m.
New subject: Other Image Location, was:Re: Who is interested in double sized PDP11/QBUS universal boards?
On Feb 4, 2012, at 7:35 AM, Gary Sparkes <mokuba at gmail.com> wrote:
Good to hear too. Imgur is funded by minimal ads and
premium accounts, but
hosting for images and having basic accounts is and will always be 100%
free.
Yeah. PayPal said that too. ;)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
New Kensington, PA
9 Feb
9 Feb
4:45 a.m.
New subject: Last Call: Re: Who is interested in double sized PDP11/QBUS universal boards?
This is the last call for Orders.
The Price for the PCBs is down to 21 Euros/PCB.
Shipping is worldwide 5,50 Euros for "registered international letters" at
the "Deutsche Post".
The weight of an double size grant continuity card from dec (with the
plastic handles) is approx 90 Gramms, that should be in the same ballpark
as the boards we would let make. So the selected shipping mehtod should be
good for at lest 5 boards.
Paypal fees are 1,9% from the total +0,35 Euros. There are additional fees
of 2.5-4% of the exchange rate to Euro. So please guys, send me Euros
(yes, that's possible) so that you have this costs at your side. I simply
couldn't calculate this exactly for every currency you have.
I'll add an handling fee of 50 Eurocent for each order (packing material),
hope that's ok for you.
Currently I have the following orders (from here):
Birkel, Paul A. 4 pcs
Malcolm Macleod 3 pcs
Pete Turnbull 2 pcs
Jos Dreesen 3 pcs
Jack Rubin 3 pcs
Toby Thain 4 pcs
There are orders from elsewhere (german forums, direct contact per mail
etc).
If I forgot one, please respond.
This is also the last chance to get added in for others. I'll close the
ordering today 12PM (MET/CET)
Again the total works out like this:
Jane Doe: 4 pcs.
4 x 21.00 Euros = 84.00 Euros
Shipping 5.50 Euros
Handling 0.50 Euros
--------------------------------------
100.00 Euros
+1.9% Paypal 1.90 Euros
--------------------------------------
Total 101.90 Euros
For the people where all is clear now, you can send me the money (Euros!!)
with paypal to holm at freibergnet.de. That's my private account (again, this
is a non profit action, I do have a business, but this has nothing todo
with it)
I think I could get your complete address out of paypal so I can ship to
this address.
And last but not least: Please be patient! We will order the boards if we
have the money for them, not before. It will take a while to get them and
to ship them. I'll add actual messages about the process state here. Wehn I
ship, you all should get the tracking code per email from me. Please
complain if nothing happens....
Kind Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
7:41 a.m.
New subject: Last Call: Re: Who is interested in double sized PDP11/QBUS universal boards?
Hi Holm,
Add me in for 4 boards as well, please.
Kind regards,
Camiel Vanderhoeven
Tarthorst 1009
6708 JH Wageningen, The Netherlands
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Holm Tiffe
Sent: donderdag 9 februari 2012 10:46
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Last Call: Re: Who is interested in double sized PDP11/QBUS
universal boards?
This is the last call for Orders.
The Price for the PCBs is down to 21 Euros/PCB.
Shipping is worldwide 5,50 Euros for "registered international letters" at
the "Deutsche Post".
The weight of an double size grant continuity card from dec (with the
plastic handles) is approx 90 Gramms, that should be in the same ballpark as
the boards we would let make. So the selected shipping mehtod should be good
for at lest 5 boards.
Paypal fees are 1,9% from the total +0,35 Euros. There are additional fees
of 2.5-4% of the exchange rate to Euro. So please guys, send me Euros (yes,
that's possible) so that you have this costs at your side. I simply couldn't
calculate this exactly for every currency you have.
I'll add an handling fee of 50 Eurocent for each order (packing material),
hope that's ok for you.
Currently I have the following orders (from here):
Birkel, Paul A. 4 pcs
Malcolm Macleod 3 pcs
Pete Turnbull 2 pcs
Jos Dreesen 3 pcs
Jack Rubin 3 pcs
Toby Thain 4 pcs
There are orders from elsewhere (german forums, direct contact per mail
etc).
If I forgot one, please respond.
This is also the last chance to get added in for others. I'll close the
ordering today 12PM (MET/CET)
Again the total works out like this:
Jane Doe: 4 pcs.
4 x 21.00 Euros = 84.00 Euros
Shipping 5.50 Euros
Handling 0.50 Euros
--------------------------------------
100.00 Euros
+1.9% Paypal 1.90 Euros
--------------------------------------
Total 101.90 Euros
For the people where all is clear now, you can send me the money (Euros!!)
with paypal to holm at freibergnet.de. That's my private account (again, this
is a non profit action, I do have a business, but this has nothing todo with
it) I think I could get your complete address out of paypal so I can ship to
this address.
And last but not least: Please be patient! We will order the boards if we
have the money for them, not before. It will take a while to get them and to
ship them. I'll add actual messages about the process state here. Wehn I
ship, you all should get the tracking code per email from me. Please
complain if nothing happens....
Kind Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
4547
days inactive
4554
days old
30 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
ddsnyder＠zoominternet.net -
fraveydank＠gmail.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
holm＠freibergnet.de -
iamcamiel＠gmail.com -
legalize＠xmission.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
mokuba＠gmail.com -
nierveze＠radio-astronomie.com -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com -
pontus＠Update.UU.SE -
rodsmallwood＠btconnect.com -
toby＠telegraphics.com.au