26 Aug
2014
26 Aug
'14
2:50 p.m.
Hi,
The recent thread on AB20 reminded me I have a large pile of CDs from the 1990s
that could do with being imaged and uploaded to archive.org.
What's the best free Unix tool[0] for doing this? Sure, I know about dd and
cdparanoia, but those only extract data and CDDA respectively, and I'd prefer
produce an actual image complete with TOC, subchannels, etc. To *use* the data,
I can always transcode from that into something lossier such as FLAC :) but the
reverse transformation is not possible.
Failing that, I can go off and *write* one, but I'd rather not spend the effort
if something suitable already exists and has already been well-tested and
confirmed to not make subtle errors in rips.
(Bonus points for tips on how to do the same with Blu-Ray discs, since I may as
well archive them now rather than leave it until the 2030s.)
[0] I say this otherwise some berk will pipe up with "you can do that with
SuperMegaRipper Pro from Malware Inc. for Windows 9, and it costs just $299
for a 60 day licence". I'd rather toss the discs in the bin.
26 Aug
26 Aug
3:40 p.m.
Ah, an interesting topic. In short, for audio cds, cdrdao does a nice job.
There used to be some plextor drives that reported anomalies on cds, and
someone wrote a tool that ran on linux and could report this data, called
qpxtool. Those drives also came with similar tools that ran on windows.
Qpxtool also came with a nice data optical disk reader called deadread, or
something similar. dd_rescue also works well. I wouldn't be surprised if
someone much, much more knowlegeable about this gives a much lengthier
reply. I would welcome such information too.
On Aug 26, 2014 5:29 PM, "Peter Corlett" <abuse at cabal.org.uk> wrote:
Hi,
The recent thread on AB20 reminded me I have a large pile of CDs from the
1990s
that could do with being imaged and uploaded to archive.org.
What's the best free Unix tool[0] for doing this? Sure, I know about dd and
cdparanoia, but those only extract data and CDDA respectively, and I'd
prefer
produce an actual image complete with TOC, subchannels, etc. To *use* the
data,
I can always transcode from that into something lossier such as FLAC :)
but the
reverse transformation is not possible.
Failing that, I can go off and *write* one, but I'd rather not spend the
effort
if something suitable already exists and has already been well-tested and
confirmed to not make subtle errors in rips.
(Bonus points for tips on how to do the same with Blu-Ray discs, since I
may as
well archive them now rather than leave it until the 2030s.)
[0] I say this otherwise some berk will pipe up with "you can do that with
SuperMegaRipper Pro from Malware Inc. for Windows 9, and it costs just
$299
for a 60 day licence". I'd rather toss the discs in the bin.
3:44 p.m.
While I get the anti-windows, ISOdisk for windows does an excellent job and
is 100% free - it's how I do the ISOs for the archive.org collection.
Otherwise, the easiest is DD:
dd if=/dev/cdrom of=/tmp/cdimg1.iso
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 5:50 PM, Peter Corlett <abuse at cabal.org.uk> wrote:
Hi,
The recent thread on AB20 reminded me I have a large pile of CDs from the
1990s
that could do with being imaged and uploaded to archive.org.
What's the best free Unix tool[0] for doing this? Sure, I know about dd and
cdparanoia, but those only extract data and CDDA respectively, and I'd
prefer
produce an actual image complete with TOC, subchannels, etc. To *use* the
data,
I can always transcode from that into something lossier such as FLAC :)
but the
reverse transformation is not possible.
Failing that, I can go off and *write* one, but I'd rather not spend the
effort
if something suitable already exists and has already been well-tested and
confirmed to not make subtle errors in rips.
(Bonus points for tips on how to do the same with Blu-Ray discs, since I
may as
well archive them now rather than leave it until the 2030s.)
[0] I say this otherwise some berk will pipe up with "you can do that with
SuperMegaRipper Pro from Malware Inc. for Windows 9, and it costs just
$299
for a 60 day licence". I'd rather toss the discs in the bin.
4:08 p.m.
On 08/26/2014 02:50 PM, Peter Corlett wrote:
[0] I say this otherwise some berk will pipe up with
"you can do that with
SuperMegaRipper Pro from Malware Inc. for Windows 9, and it costs just $299
for a 60 day licence". I'd rather toss the discs in the bin.
SylSoft CloneCD is the only package I'm aware of--it's Windows and it's
modestly priced. However, it's also a 21-day time-limited free demo.
One of the big issues is that shibboleth, DRM. CloneCD used to be a
product out of Europe (IIRC) but was sold to SlySoft, located in
Antigua, Barbados where DRM isn't a matter of law.
FWIW,
Chuck
4:09 p.m.
On Tue, 26 Aug 2014, Peter Corlett wrote:
Hi,
The recent thread on AB20 reminded me I have a large pile of CDs from the 1990s
that could do with being imaged and uploaded to archive.org.
What's the best free Unix tool[0] for doing this? Sure, I know about dd and
cdparanoia, but those only extract data and CDDA respectively, and I'd prefer
produce an actual image complete with TOC, subchannels, etc. To *use* the data,
I can always transcode from that into something lossier such as FLAC :) but the
reverse transformation is not possible.
Failing that, I can go off and *write* one, but I'd rather not spend the effort
if something suitable already exists and has already been well-tested and
confirmed to not make subtle errors in rips.
When I rip CDs, I use a script called abcde[1]. All you do is insert a CD
and type the command. After a few minutes you'll end up with audio files
encoded in mp3, ogg, or flac tagged with info from freedb.org. If the CD
isn't listed at freedb.org, easytag is very handy to do the id3 tagging.
Remember that FLAC stands for "Free Lossless Audio Codec". There's
nothing "lossier" about it.
[1] http://code.google.com/p/abcde/ and most Linux repos.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
4:11 p.m.
On 26/08/2014 22:50, "Peter Corlett" <abuse at cabal.org.uk> wrote:
[0] I say this otherwise some berk will pipe up with
"you can do that with
SuperMegaRipper Pro from Malware Inc. for Windows 9, and it costs just
$299
for a 60 day licence". I'd rather toss the discs in the bin.
Hi Peter,
I hate to push the windows angle since I'm a unix and Mac bloke, but ImgBurn
will do just what you want on XP upwards and it's free.
http://www.imgburn.com
I use it all the time at work because I'm not allowed unixy toys, though
they do love me to bits for introducing them to Clonezilla.
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
8:08 p.m.
Last time I had to do this kind of work, I used cdrdao for Linux. Not sure
where that software is these days, in terms of development / support - but
at the time, it was about the best for the job.
Example, it was about the only Linux software that could correctly write
backups of Sega DC GD-ROM discs.. seems similar to the old Discjuggler
software for Windows, it uses a similar bin/cue format.
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Adrian Graham <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk
wrote:
> On 26/08/2014 22:50, "Peter Corlett" <abuse at cabal.org.uk wrote:
>
> > [0] I say this otherwise some berk will pipe up with "you can do that
> with
> > SuperMegaRipper Pro from Malware Inc. for Windows 9, and it costs
> just
> > $299
> > for a 60 day licence". I'd rather toss the discs in the bin.
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> I hate to push the windows angle since I'm a unix and Mac bloke, but
> ImgBurn
> will do just what you want on XP upwards and it's free.
>
> http://www.imgburn.com
>
> I use it all the time at work because I'm not allowed unixy toys, though
> they do love me to bits for introducing them to Clonezilla.
>
> --
> Adrian/Witchy
> Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
> Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
> collection?
>
>
>
31 Aug
31 Aug
12:26 a.m.
Am 27.08.14 05:08, schrieb drlegendre .:
Last time I had to do this kind of work, I used cdrdao
for Linux. Not sure
where that software is these days, in terms of development / support - but
at the time, it was about the best for the job.
I do all my CD backups / imaging
with cdrdao. It creats an exact image
of each track along with the TOC metadata needed to recreate the CD.
I.e. it works well with mixed mode CDs and stuff like that.
dd can't do this. It simply reads data until an I/O error occurs.
Usually the resulting image will contain a few sectors of lead out
garbage. So each generation of copy will be slightly larger. And of
course it will fail on anything but simple, plain data CDROMs.
I use cdparanoia to rip audio cds if I just want the PCM data for trans
coding to FLAC.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
2 Sep
2 Sep
12:57 p.m.
In article <5402CE0B.8040107 at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>,
Jochen Kunz <jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> writes:
I do all my CD backups / imaging with cdrdao.
I've been imaging data CDs with imgburn. Any reason I should switch
to cdrdao for those sorts of discs?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book
<http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://ComputerGraphicsMuseum.org>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://LegalizeAdulthood.wordpress.com>
3:06 p.m.
For purely normal data CDs (ISO 9660, High Sierra, UDF, even HFS), no. Only
reason to use any special software for CD-ROM archiving is for discs that
have audio tracks, a non mode 1 data track, or multiple tracks.
26 Aug
26 Aug
4:14 p.m.
On 8/26/14, Peter Corlett <abuse at cabal.org.uk> wrote:
What's the best free Unix tool[0] for doing this?
Sure, I know about dd and
cdparanoia, but those only extract data and CDDA respectively, and I'd
prefer produce an actual image complete with TOC, subchannels, etc. To *use* the
data, I can always transcode from that into something lossier such as FLAC :) but
the reverse transformation is not possible.
My (possibly superficial and incomplete) understanding was that the
best process for exact duplication of mixed-type CD-ROMs is to rip the
data/audio portions separately using programs best suited for those
tasks, and then have a "cue" file that describes how to recreate the
TOC of the original disc.
You already mentioned cdparanoia, which can give you the raw PCM for
audio tracks -- but I did want to add that I've had good luck
preserving data tracks with "ddrescue", which is essentially "dd"
with
much better error handling, including the ability to map out which
sectors were recovered successfully and which are missing (and
sophisticated read retrying).
I don't know of any free tool that wraps all of this up into a single
package, however.
27 Aug
27 Aug
9:03 a.m.
Has anyone successfully duplicated or archived the Sun 4.1 era Sunos CDs?
That is my benchmark of a real archive tool.
If you ever had one of those with an SS1, SS5 and an IPX and IPC all
running, when you booted the CD or inserted it after install and browsed
it between the boot code and drivers, each system would see different
executables and data for all the CD partitions. Each sun system had s
different architecture, and this CD would present a different set of
data to each system.
Duplicating that (and explaining it better than I have here) is what I'd
love to see in a CD tool.
JIm
On 8/26/2014 2:50 PM, Peter Corlett wrote:
Hi,
The recent thread on AB20 reminded me I have a large pile of CDs from the 1990s
that could do with being imaged and uploaded to archive.org.
What's the best free Unix tool[0] for doing this? Sure, I know about dd and
cdparanoia, but those only extract data and CDDA respectively, and I'd prefer
produce an actual image complete with TOC, subchannels, etc. To *use* the data,
I can always transcode from that into something lossier such as FLAC :) but the
reverse transformation is not possible.
Failing that, I can go off and *write* one, but I'd rather not spend the effort
if something suitable already exists and has already been well-tested and
confirmed to not make subtle errors in rips.
(Bonus points for tips on how to do the same with Blu-Ray discs, since I may as
well archive them now rather than leave it until the 2030s.)
[0] I say this otherwise some berk will pipe up with "you can do that with
SuperMegaRipper Pro from Malware Inc. for Windows 9, and it costs just $299
for a 60 day licence". I'd rather toss the discs in the bin.
9:33 a.m.
On 8/27/14 9:03 AM, jwsmobile wrote:
Has anyone successfully duplicated or archived the Sun
4.1 era Sunos CDs?
Yes, it was trivial to do 10 years ago on a Mac with Toast.
I also have the last Solborne distribution CDs dumped.
OSX can do it out of the box.
It wasn't clear from the original post if these are data or music CDs.
Either one is easy, it isn't even that difficult on Linux, though the PC
products tend to be more polished.
This assumes no bletcherous standards-violating copy protection schemes were employed, of
course.
1:38 p.m.
+1
I want to second the comments concerning OS X's capability right out of the box.
Several years ago, I have a friend return from a trip to the Czech Republic with
a couple of dual layer DVD's(back when that meant something), region 2 music
video's in PAL format that she had wanted to play here in the States. It seems
like there were a couple of additional hangups also, but I can't remember what
they were.
I had asked questions to a couple of different mailing list, all of which had
suggest Toast. I own a couple of legal copies of Toast, but they were older
versions that ran on Classic Mac OS. I wasn't interested in purchasing another
copy for this little project.
Once I got everything configured the way I wanted it, I was able to burn a DVD
for my friend that she was able to play in her home DVD player. I used the
standard drive tools as shipped directly from Apple.
Jerry
On 08/27/14 11:33 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 8/27/14 9:03 AM, jwsmobile wrote:
Has anyone successfully duplicated or archived
the Sun 4.1 era Sunos CDs?
Yes, it was trivial to do 10 years ago on a Mac with Toast.
I also have the last Solborne distribution CDs dumped.
OSX can do it out of the box.
It wasn't clear from the original post if these are data or music CDs.
Either one is easy, it isn't even that difficult on Linux, though the PC
products tend to be more polished.
This assumes no bletcherous standards-violating copy protection schemes were
employed, of course.
3:52 p.m.
On 28 Aug 2014, at 2:33 am, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
On 8/27/14 9:03 AM, jwsmobile wrote:
I keep an old Power Mac G4 solely for the purpose of archiving CDs and DVDs. It just
works..
Started out archiving all my first CD-Rs from the early 90?s then did all my music, and
now working my way through all the other install and driver discs.
Has anyone successfully duplicated or archived
the Sun 4.1 era Sunos CDs?
Yes, it was trivial to do 10 years ago on a Mac with Toast.
I also have the last Solborne distribution CDs dumped.
OSX can do it out of the box.
28 Aug
28 Aug
1:36 a.m.
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014, jwsmobile wrote:
Has anyone successfully duplicated or archived the Sun
4.1 era Sunos CDs?
That is my benchmark of a real archive tool.
If you ever had one of those with an SS1, SS5 and an IPX and IPC all running,
when you booted the CD or inserted it after install and browsed it between
the boot code and drivers, each system would see different executables and
data for all the CD partitions. Each sun system had s different
architecture, and this CD would present a different set of data to each
system.
Duplicating that (and explaining it better than I have here) is what I'd love
to see in a CD tool.
It took me a few days of discussion in #classiccmp to get a SunOS 4.1.4 CD
image that would work. The first one I acquired had a corrupted tar file
on it, perhaps from a complication of the sort you seem to be alluding to.
Anyhow, I managed to get it booted, installed, and running under QEMU.
Poking through the innards of the CD image, I decided that the different
executables presented part came about from clever scripting -- no esoteric
CD diddling. That being said, I have never installed SunOS on real
hardware.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
5:39 a.m.
On 28 August 2014 09:36, David Griffith <dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu> wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014, jwsmobile wrote:
Sun boxes boot a different filesystem image based on their
architecture, which will include an appropriate kernel, after which
the root filesystem and similar can be shared within reason - (sun4,
sun4c & sun4m) & (sun3, sun3x) etc.
mksunbootcd can add in the filesystem images into a standard ISO
image, generating a new iso with the data & boot images -
http://pkgsrc.se/sysutils/mksunbootcd
This means you (theoretically) can make a single ISO image bootable on
sun4, sun4c, sun4m, sun4u, sun3, sun3x & sun2... Presumably "Because
its there".
IIRC earlier versions of NetBSD had multiboot ISO images, but now just
tends to have ultrasparc, sparc, & sun3
http://www.netbsd.org/docs/bootcd.html#sparcimage
Has anyone successfully duplicated or archived
the Sun 4.1 era Sunos CDs?
That is my benchmark of a real archive tool.
If you ever had one of those with an SS1, SS5 and an IPX and IPC all
running, when you booted the CD or inserted it after install and browsed it
between the boot code and drivers, each system would see different
executables and data for all the CD partitions. Each sun system had s
different architecture, and this CD would present a different set of data to
each system.
Duplicating that (and explaining it better than I have here) is what I'd
love to see in a CD tool.
It took me a few days of discussion in #classiccmp to get a SunOS 4.1.4 CD
image that would work. The first one I acquired had a corrupted tar file on
it, perhaps from a complication of the sort you seem to be alluding to.
Anyhow, I managed to get it booted, installed, and running under QEMU.
Poking through the innards of the CD image, I decided that the different
executables presented part came about from clever scripting -- no esoteric
CD diddling. That being said, I have never installed SunOS on real
hardware.
9:41 a.m.
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 10:50:54PM +0100, Peter Corlett wrote:
[...]
What's the best free Unix tool[0] for doing this?
Sure, I know about dd and
cdparanoia, but those only extract data and CDDA respectively, and I'd prefer
produce an actual image complete with TOC, subchannels, etc. [...]
And to summarise the answers: use dd and cdparanoia, or some wrapper thereof,
or spend money on Windows. Which is pretty much the underwhelming response I
feared.
Failing that, I can go off and *write* one, but
I'd rather not spend the
effort if something suitable already exists and has already been well-tested
and confirmed to not make subtle errors in rips.
So I'm going to take this route. I've acquired a copy of the MMC-6 standard,
which is surprisingly eloquent as standards documents go, and it all looks
straightfoward to read raw sectors and get at all of the lovely metadata that
dd and cdparanoia throw away.
The only real gotcha is that direct SCSI access is OS-dependent. Windows is
pay-to-play, so bugger that. OSX doesn't expose the functionality to userspace,
and I'm not all that inclined to go kernel-hacking. Linux is utterly trivial
through the /dev/sg* devices, and FreeBSD's CAM stuff looks well-designed, so
I'm going to target those two platforms.
10:16 a.m.
On 08/28/2014 09:41 AM, Peter Corlett wrote:
The only real gotcha is that direct SCSI access is
OS-dependent. Windows is
pay-to-play, so bugger that. OSX doesn't expose the functionality to userspace,
and I'm not all that inclined to go kernel-hacking. Linux is utterly trivial
through the /dev/sg* devices, and FreeBSD's CAM stuff looks well-designed, so
I'm going to target those two platforms.
Will you be able to copy over any DRM data? Will it be in accordance to
your country's laws?
You know, you could always use MSDOS and ASPI... (ducking for cover)
--Chuck
29 Aug
29 Aug
3:46 a.m.
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 10:16:58AM -0700, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 08/28/2014 09:41 AM, Peter Corlett wrote:
Perhaps, depending on how it's implemented. I'll be addressing CSS, but
otherwise won't make any particular effort to deal with DRM at rip time.
The only real gotcha is that direct SCSI access
is OS-dependent. Windows is
pay-to-play, so bugger that. OSX doesn't expose the functionality to
userspace, and I'm not all that inclined to go kernel-hacking. Linux is
utterly trivial through the /dev/sg* devices, and FreeBSD's CAM stuff looks
well-designed, so I'm going to target those two platforms.
Will you be able to
copy over any DRM data? Will it be in accordance to your country's laws?
Yes. The relevant UK copyright laws were drafted in the days of analogue
recording and forbade copying and format-shifting for personal use, but it was
widely flouted, prosecutions were not in the public interest, and the laws were
updated earlier this year to give more sensible fair use provisions and be
generally be more in line with the rest of the EU.
So yes, I can now legally rip CDs and DVDs, and can also compel the
content-producer to remove overly-restrictive DRM. The latter may be
interesting to explore for Blu-Ray discs, since the DRM still hasn't been
usefully cracked on those yet.
You know, you could always use MSDOS and ASPI...
(ducking for cover)
It's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure I have suitable hardware to hand...
28 Aug
28 Aug
5:48 p.m.
Peter Corlett <abuse at cabal.org.uk> writes:
So I'm going to take this route. I've acquired
a copy of the MMC-6
standard, which is surprisingly eloquent as standards documents go,
and it all looks straightfoward to read raw sectors and get at all of
the lovely metadata that dd and cdparanoia throw away.
It may be worth considering cued as a basis for this. It's an accurate
CD ripper based on libcdio that can produce individual tracks and a CUE
file to describe the structure:
https://gitorious.org/cued
At present it only has support for audio tracks and subchannels, but it
looks like it would be relatively straightforward to make it support
data tracks as well. There's already a cued_rip_data_track function in
its internal library, but the code that scans the tracks doesn't call
it...
--
Adam Sampson <ats at offog.org> <http://offog.org/>
3763
days inactive
3770
days old
20 comments
17 participants
participants (17)
-
a.phillip.garcia＠gmail.com -
abs＠absd.org -
abuse＠cabal.org.uk -
aek＠bitsavers.org -
amh＠pobox.com -
ats＠offog.org -
cclist＠sydex.com -
dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu -
drlegendre＠gmail.com -
jason＠textfiles.com -
jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
jws＠jwsss.com -
legalize＠xmission.com -
other＠oryx.cc -
pye＠mactec.com.au -
spacewar＠gmail.com -
witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk