17 Nov
1999
17 Nov
'99
6:25 a.m.
Hey all...I am new to this classic computer collecting, but I have been
buying and reselling systems for a few months now. Anyway, I recently
acquired a Hyperion Passport (or is it a Passport Hyperion?), an Apricot, a
workSlate, and some drives, and other stuff (diskettes, or things) that say
Amdek on them. I am just looking on any information I can find on these! I
am attempting to put a value on them, and am trying to decide which to keep,
if any....I am running out of room it seems :-)
Any help would be appreciated!
Sincerely,
Mark Saarinen
17 Nov
17 Nov
7:39 a.m.
New subject: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate,
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18 Nov
18 Nov
6:47 a.m.
New subject: Classic Hardware Documentation Project
I am starting a documentation project to collect hardware manuals and
technical documents for all different types of old computers. Before I put
it up for all to enjoy, I need to write a legal disclaimer saying, to the
effect, that I make no claim to own anything and to the best of my knowledge
it's all public domain info. Anyone know how I should word it, or anyone
have an example on their web site? Thanks in advance.
-Jason McBrien
-Wayne State University
-Big Iron Fiend
8:41 a.m.
New subject: Classic Hardware Documentation Project
Upon the date 03:47 PM 11/18/99 -0500, Jason McBrien said something like:
I am starting a documentation project to collect
hardware manuals and
technical documents for all different types of old computers. Before I put
it up for all to enjoy, I need to write a legal disclaimer saying, to the
effect, that I make no claim to own anything and to the best of my knowledge
it's all public domain info. Anyone know how I should word it, or anyone
have an example on their web site? Thanks in advance.
Public Domain? Not if there's any indication of a copyright on them.
That disclaimer you plan to write will not cut it if there is a copyright
on the documents. Very few documents could be considered PD unless they did
not have a specific copyright notice OR if there is a general specific
release given by the copyright holder to PD OR the copyright holder gives
*you* permission to hang it out on your website for the public to see with
a notice stating the copyright holder still retains copyright. Recently
revised copyright laws make *everything* copyrighted nowadays.
US Government printed documentation is usually not copyrighted and
therefore PD, for example, that is if it's not classified or secret.
Military technical manuals on mil radios and mil electronic test equipment
are in this category. After all, the US *public* paid for writing,
preparing and printing them. I've got about nine shelf-feet of such manuals
in my collection.
If you find Government printed computer manuals you should be out of
trouble. But what computers that we'd have in our collections would have
gov't. issue manuals?
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/
9:04 a.m.
New subject: Copyright clearance (was Re: Classic Hardware Documentation Project)
Christian Fandt wrote:
Upon the date 03:47 PM 11/18/99 -0500, Jason McBrien said something like:
>I am starting a documentation project to collect hardware manuals and
>technical documents for all different types of old computers.
[snip]
Public Domain? Not if there's any indication of a
copyright on them.
That disclaimer you plan to write will not cut it if there is a copyright
on the documents.
That's correct, and thanks to pressure from the likes of disney
the duration of US copyrights these days is incredibly long.
FWIW, I've been trying to get DG to provide copyright release for
prints, diagnostic listings, diagnostic binaries and the like for
Novas and the 16-bit Eclipse line. email, fax and voice messages
go in, nothing comes out. Similarly with Ball, who once upon a
time owned Decision Consulatants, who manufatured a very nice
diablo 33 controller for the Nova bus.
If you find Government printed computer manuals you
should be out of
trouble. But what computers that we'd have in our collections would have
gov't. issue manuals?
Not even the ones for my Rolm 16xx stuff. Rolm's copyright
persists into the US Government documents :-(
Best,
Chris
--
Chris Kennedy
chris(a)mainecoon.com
http://www.mainecoon.com
9:46 a.m.
New subject: Copyright clearance (was Re: Classic Hardware Documentation Project)
Someone (Chris Kennedy) else wrote:
FWIW, I've been trying to get DG to provide
copyright release for
prints, diagnostic listings, diagnostic binaries and the like for
Novas and the 16-bit Eclipse line. email, fax and voice messages
go in, nothing comes out. Similarly with Ball, who once upon a
time owned Decision Consulatants, who manufatured a very nice
diablo 33 controller for the Nova bus.
I believe there is a Copyright forfeiture rule you can invoke which
requires a best effort attempt to obtain a right to use a copyright from
its holder with no response. If they actually said "No, you can't do that."
then that is one thing but if they don't respond at all, and you document
that, you can get the court so revert the document to the public domain. I
know of at least one case where this was done with a defunct computer
company. (I believe it was Eagle PC but I'll need to find the reference to
be sure.)
--Chuck
10:36 a.m.
New subject: Copyright clearance (was Re: Classic Hardware Documentation Project)
Upon the date 03:04 PM 11/18/99 -0800, Chris Kennedy said something like:
Must be some docs for a government contract prepared outside of the
contract at Rolm's (or the prime contractor's) expense. Often, anything
printed under a government contract is not copyrighted.
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/
Christian Fandt wrote:
>
> Upon the date 03:47 PM 11/18/99 -0500, Jason McBrien said something like:
> >I am starting a documentation project to collect hardware manuals and
> >technical documents for all different types of old computers.
-- snip
--
If you find
Government printed computer manuals you should be out of
trouble. But what computers that we'd have in our collections would have
gov't. issue manuals?
Not even the ones for my Rolm 16xx stuff. Rolm's copyright
persists into the US Government documents :-( 
3:25 p.m.
New subject: Copyright clearance (was Re: Classic Hardware Documentation Project)
On Thu, 18 Nov 1999, Christian Fandt wrote:
Upon the date 03:04 PM 11/18/99 -0800, Chris Kennedy
said something like:
Must be some docs for a government contract prepared outside of the
contract at Rolm's (or the prime contractor's) expense. Often, anything
printed under a government contract is not copyrighted.
I suspect that the distinction is whether the material was developed at
government expense rather than who printed it. After all, it is the
content that is copyrighted, not the manual itself.
- don
Christian Fandt wrote:
>
> Upon the date 03:47 PM 11/18/99 -0500, Jason McBrien said something like:
> >I am starting a documentation project to collect hardware manuals and
> >technical documents for all different types of old computers.
-- snip
--
If you
find Government printed computer manuals you should be out of
trouble. But what computers that we'd have in our collections would have
gov't. issue manuals?
Not even the ones for my Rolm 16xx stuff. Rolm's copyright
persists into the US Government documents :-( Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/
19 Nov
19 Nov
11:02 a.m.
New subject: Copyright clearance (was Re: Classic Hardware Documentation Project)
Upon the date 09:25 PM 11/18/99 -0800, Don Maslin said something like:
Yep. That's why I wrote '. . .printed under a gov't contract.' meaning to
include the development was also under the contract. The Government
Printing Office would have printed such a doc too.
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/
On Thu, 18 Nov 1999, Christian Fandt wrote:
-- snip --
Must be some
docs for a government contract prepared outside of the
contract at Rolm's (or the prime contractor's) expense. Often, anything
printed under a government contract is not copyrighted.
I suspect that the distinction is whether the material was developed at
government expense rather than who printed it. After all, it is the
content that is copyrighted, not the manual itself.
18 Nov
18 Nov
9:11 a.m.
New subject: Classic Hardware Documentation Project
Maybe not public domain, but I don't think, for example, Commodore (or
whoever owns them now) would mind posting the schematics for the C64, or if
someone were to scan in the owners manual for a TI/99, or a VAX 11/750
technical manual. Otherwise, if a company goes belly-up, who owns the
copyright then? The disclaimer I'm looking to write acknologes all
copyrights, and would allow the holders to request that I take them down, as
long as they can proove that the copyright is still valid and that they own
it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: Classic Hardware Documentation Project
<snip>
Public Domain? Not if there's any indication of a
copyright on them.
That disclaimer you plan to write will not cut it if there is a copyright
on the documents. Very few documents could be considered PD unless they
did
not have a specific copyright notice OR if there is a
general specific
release given by the copyright holder to PD OR the copyright holder gives
*you* permission to hang it out on your website for the public to see with
a notice stating the copyright holder still retains copyright. Recently
revised copyright laws make *everything* copyrighted nowadays.
US Government printed documentation is usually not copyrighted and
therefore PD, for example, that is if it's not classified or secret.
Military technical manuals on mil radios and mil electronic test equipment
are in this category. After all, the US *public* paid for writing,
preparing and printing them. I've got about nine shelf-feet of such
manuals
in my collection.
If you find Government printed computer manuals you should be out of
trouble. But what computers that we'd have in our collections would have
gov't. issue manuals?
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/
9:50 a.m.
New subject: Classic Hardware Documentation Project
Maybe not public domain, but I don't think, for
example, Commodore (or
whoever owns them now) would mind posting the schematics for the C64, or if
Tulip owns the C64 portion of Commodore last I heard, Gateway owns the
Amiga.
someone were to scan in the owners manual for a TI/99,
or a VAX 11/750
technical manual. Otherwise, if a company goes belly-up, who owns the
The VAX 11/750 is the perfect example of one that most likely *would* be a
problem. Unless I'm mistaken you can still *buy* the manual, and I'm not
sure but the machines might still be supported. Compaq has pledged support
for VAX for a MINIMUM of 10 more years.
NOTE: a lot of PDP-11 and VAX manuals are still listed as being available
for sale from Compaq, I wouldn't be surprised if they are ALL available.
copyright then? The disclaimer I'm looking to
write acknologes all
copyrights, and would allow the holders to request that I take them down, as
long as they can proove that the copyright is still valid and that they own
it.
Actually most likely they don't have to prove anything. Copyright is
getting very, very ugly. I gather that a lot of stuff that has passed into
the public domain and has been included in Project Gutenberg is likely to
pass back into copyrighted status.
As someone else pointed out the evil entity known as Di$ney is blame for a lot
of this. After all you wouldn't want Mickey Mouse to pass into public
domain would you?
It's all a very sticky mess, you might want to take a look at some of the
info that Project Gutenberg has.
Zane
19 Nov
19 Nov
6:01 a.m.
New subject: Classic Hardware Documentation Project
Public Domain? Not if there's any indication of a
copyright on them.
That disclaimer you plan to write will not cut it if
there is a copyright
on the documents. Very few documents could be considered PD unless they did
not have a specific copyright notice OR if there is a general specific
release given by the copyright holder to PD OR the copyright holder gives
*you* permission to hang it out on your website for the public to see with
a notice stating the copyright holder still retains copyright. Recently
revised copyright laws make *everything* copyrighted nowadays.
ALso you may have to take into account that other countries may have
complete different Copyright laws. For example, German law defines
three complete different positions within:
a) The Copyright is strictly limited to natural persons. No company
or whatsever may hold a copyright. Also a person is _unable_ to
sell this right. If you are issueing some work, it's yours until
the end of time. Business is still not restricted, since you are
entiteled to sell comerial usage of your work on a royality base.
These comercial right are also only valid for a limited time beyond
your lifespan.
b) To be copyrighted a pice of work has to reach a 'non trivial level'.
So a simple note may or may not be copyrighted - even a book may not,
althrough based on regular court decisions it's hard to do this.
b) There is no thing like Public Domain. Every work (if it reaches a
defined level) is copyrighted. It is just impossible to give up your
copyright (like it's impossible to give up your human rights - well
basicly the same idea). You may choose not to use your right and
pursue violators, but never give up your basic copyright.
Well, this isn't ideal world, so in every days business the situation
is the same.
Gruss
H.
30 Dec
30 Dec
3:24 a.m.
New subject: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate,
Hi Tony,
I think Apricot went on to make some 80286 and higher
machines
that were basically PC-clones :-(
Eventually yes.
After the PC/Xi and "F" series machines they came out with the "Xen"
family. These were in '286 based versions of the earlier PC/Xi machines, in
a different case and with more expansion slots.
They also produced another machine (which I've only ever seen once) which
was '286 based and lived in an identical case to the PC/Xi, with the
exception that it was light grey/white. I don't recall the model number, but
I'm sure it was also IBM incompatible.
It was after these that they joined the throng of clone manufacturers with
the Xen-i and later....
BTW IF anyone in the UK wants a PC/Xi or a couple of the original Xens drop
me a note, they're going free (or swaps for interesting bits if you insist).
TTFN - Pete.
--
Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC)
peter.pachla(a)wintermute.org.uk |
peter.pachla(a)wintermute.free-online.co.uk | www.wintermute.free-online.co.uk
--
8:04 a.m.
New subject: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate,
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11:31 a.m.
New subject: 8089 was Re: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate,
At 10:04 PM 12/30/99 +0000, you wrote:
>
a strange machine -- one of the few MS-DOS boxes to use
an 8089 I/O
coprocessor (which I why I got interested in it -- nice chip).
Hi Tony, I have an 8089 in a CPM machine but I haven't been able to find
out much about that chip. What can you tell me about it?
FWIW the same machine has ECC memory controller in it too but I don't
remember it's number. Memory is in banks of 11 ICs!
Joe
10:07 a.m.
New subject: 8089 was Re: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent
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31 Dec
31 Dec
1:44 a.m.
New subject: 8089 was Re: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate,
>a strange machine -- one of the few MS-DOS boxes
to use an 8089 I/O
>coprocessor (which I why I got interested in it -- nice chip).
Hi Tony, I have an 8089 in a CPM machine but I
haven't been able to find
out much about that chip. What can you tell me about it?
The 8089 is the supposed I/O Processor for 8086/88 systems.
Like the 8087 it can be used in an 8 or 16 bit bus system.
Basicly Intel did go for a structure like a /370 alike mainframe.
A CPU (8086 or 8088), an IOC (8089) and a math extension to the
CPU (FPU, 8087). Due the nature of the 86 Bus the 8087 did become
a bit more independant than a /370 math extension. Basicly the
8086 is designed as ordinary CPU, while the 8089 is optimized for
I/O - you may call it a super DMA chip, but thats like calling
a versitale VW Bus a shoping cart. From a system softwares view
point you may assign the low level I/O drivers to be run on the
8089, while the 8086 executes the high level functions. For a
a Disk drive this may give you an SCSI like interface between
these components - the 8086 supports a control block with (logical)
drive ID, and block number, while the 8089 translates this to
controller address, drive number and head/track/sector number
to programm the FD chips and then initiate the DMA transfer.
For a serial line, this may include low level block drivers
for packing/unpacking and CRC and block repeat to handle the
complete transmission of a given data (chunk).
Especialy in a multi tasking environment this gives an enormus
boost in available processing power. Not to mention the simplified
OS design. As a standard IOC, the 89 also overcomes the driver
problems that you get if every I/O has his own, different
'intelligent' controller.
Well, I guess there may have been some applications, but I doubt
if this has ever used the full potential of the 86/89 combination.
The design did realy borrow a lot of good mainframe ideas. Just to
early ?
Gruss
H.
--
Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh.
H.Achternbusch
30 Dec
30 Dec
12:55 p.m.
New subject: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate,
Hi Tony,
Have I just stepped into a timewarp? I seem to
remember posting
that a few months back ;-)
Ah, that's my fault....I had a backlog of nearly 3000 messages from the past
few months which I ate my way through today.
I've not been keeping up with this list due to various outside problems (5
family members hospitalised for several weeks, one after the other). :-(
My knowledge of Apricots doesn't go much beyond
the original PC.
That was a strange machine -- one of the few MS-DOS boxes to use
an 8089 I/O coprocessor....
Yes, it's the only machine I've come across so far which utilises the 8089.
It's a neat design, before I got into DEC gear about 10 - 11 years ago I was
a bit of an Apricot nut. That said I've never been interested in the PC
clones they made, of which there were many.
BTW, what's the connection between Apricot and the
Sirius?....
Ah, as I recall Apricot were originally called "ACT" and distributed the
Sirius in this country. When they decided to produce their own PC a couple
of years later they based their design on the Sirius (and renamed themselves
"Apricot") which they had a lot of experience with.
I always thought it was a real shame that they omitted the CODEC and
keyboard control of monitor contrast/brightness and speaker volume. :-( The
"microscreen" while a nice touch never quite made up for that IMHO.
TTFN - Pete.
--
Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC)
peter.pachla(a)wintermute.org.uk |
peter.pachla(a)wintermute.free-online.co.uk | www.wintermute.free-online.co.uk
--
31 Dec
31 Dec
4:51 a.m.
New subject: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate,
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17 Nov
17 Nov
8:43 a.m.
New subject: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate, Amdek, HELP!
There's a nice U. S. Apricot site. I don't remember the URL, but I think
you can find it in the links at www.osfn.org/~av090/. I think there's an
Apricot FTP site floating around, too.
On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 Maddog1331(a)aol.com wrote:
Hey all...I am new to this classic computer
collecting, but I have been
buying and reselling systems for a few months now. Anyway, I recently
acquired a Hyperion Passport (or is it a Passport Hyperion?), an Apricot, a
workSlate, and some drives, and other stuff (diskettes, or things) that say
Amdek on them. I am just looking on any information I can find on these! I
am attempting to put a value on them, and am trying to decide which to keep,
if any....I am running out of room it seems :-)
Any help would be appreciated!
Sincerely,
Mark Saarinen
M. K. Peirce
Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
215 Shady Lea Road,
North Kingstown, RI 02852
"Casta est qui nemo rogavit."
- Ovid
8:46 a.m.
New subject: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate, Amdek, HELP!
On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 Maddog1331(a)aol.com wrote:
Hey all...I am new to this classic computer
collecting, but I have been
buying and reselling systems for a few months now. Anyway, I recently
acquired a Hyperion Passport (or is it a Passport Hyperion?), an Apricot, a
workSlate, and some drives, and other stuff (diskettes, or things) that say
Amdek on them. I am just looking on any information I can find on these! I
My top of the head reaction to the name Amdek would be that the
diskettes are hard cased like a 3.5" diskette only narrower and have a
plastic hub that is accessible from either side of the case. They
are/were used in Amstrad PCW 8nnn machines, amongst others.
- don
am attempting to put a value on them, and am trying to
decide which to keep,
if any....I am running out of room it seems :-)
Any help would be appreciated!
Sincerely,
Mark Saarinen
9123
days inactive
9167
days old
20 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
at258＠osfn.org -
cfandt＠netsync.net -
chris＠mainecoon.com -
cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com -
donm＠cts.com -
Hans.Franke＠mch20.sbs.de -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jbmcb＠hotmail.com -
Maddog1331＠aol.com -
peter.pachla＠wintermute.org.uk -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net