15 May
2008
15 May
'08
2:58 p.m.
until you find that they want $5 for a PDF of a
datasheet.
I have three large databook collections (including most of what
was at Haltek). I had offered them to CHM, but they've changed their
mind about wanting them, and they want the storage space back,
so I'm going to chop a subset and scan them at 600dpi over the next
few months. The duplicates will probably go up on eBay in 20-book lots.
The big problem will be their size and postprocessing them. I don't
know if Jay is going to want something this big on bitsavers.
15 May
15 May
4:29 p.m.
In article <482C4FAA.1060701 at bitsavers.org>,
Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> writes:
The big problem will be their size and postprocessing
them. I don't
know if Jay is going to want something this big on bitsavers.
This is the kind of thing that we, as list subscribers, can keep alive
and available through bittorrent. We could also do a DVD-R copy tree.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
5:14 p.m.
At 11:29 AM 5/15/2008, Richard wrote:
This is the kind of thing that we, as list subscribers,
can keep alive
and available through bittorrent. We could also do a DVD-R copy tree.
Terabyte Seagates dropped below $200 at my supplier this month.
Put one in a $25 external case and pass it around in mail.
"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes
hurtling down the highway."
- John
5:30 p.m.
Thats one of my favorite quotes john!
point me to the terrabyte drives, I want to set up a rack of them in a raid array
Randy
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 12:14:53 -0500
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
From: jfoust at threedee.com
Subject: Re: DEC8235 and MM57109N ICs
At 11:29 AM 5/15/2008, Richard wrote:
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live SkyDrive lets you share files with faraway friends.
http://www.windowslive.com/skydrive/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh…
This is the kind of thing that we, as list
subscribers, can keep alive
and available through bittorrent. We could also do a DVD-R copy tree.
Terabyte Seagates dropped below $200 at my supplier this month.
Put one in a $25 external case and pass it around in mail.
"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes
hurtling down the highway."
- John
5:39 p.m.
New subject: bandwidth
Randy Dawson wrote:
Thats one of my favorite quotes john!
point me to the terrabyte drives, I want to set up a rack of them in a raid array
Randy
But what about the station wagon heading your way.
So how many tapes would fit in, and just what is the
capacity.
PS: Also how may on this list still use mag tape
with the vintage equipment?
5:42 p.m.
New subject: bandwidth
On May 15, 2008, at 1:39 PM, bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
PS: Also how may on this list still use mag tape
with the vintage equipment?
I do. And I'm still looking for a Pertec-interfaced drive like a
Cipher F880, by the way, if anyone has one available for trade.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
7:54 p.m.
Richard wrote:
This is the kind of thing that we, as list
subscribers, can keep alive
and available through bittorrent. We could also do a DVD-R copy tree.
Bittorrent doesn't help at all for things that only a few (less than
about five) people are trying to download at the same time. FTP is
generally *more* efficient than bittorrent for that.
8:29 p.m.
In article <45273.64.62.206.10.1210881274.squirrel at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
"Eric Smith" <eric at brouhaha.com> writes:
Richard wrote:
...but its easier to share a file via bittorrent than it is to share a
file via FTP on a consumer PC.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
This is the kind of thing that we, as list
subscribers, can keep alive
and available through bittorrent. We could also do a DVD-R copy tree.
Bittorrent doesn't help at all for things that only a few (less than
about five) people are trying to download at the same time. FTP is
generally *more* efficient than bittorrent for that.
8:42 p.m.
Richard wrote:
...but its easier to share a file via bittorrent than
it is to share a
file via FTP on a consumer PC.
Not really. If you're trying to make it widely available, you need a
tracker at a static IP address, and setting that up isn't really easier
than setting up an FTP server.
10:27 p.m.
Richard wrote:
In article <45273.64.62.206.10.1210881274.squirrel
at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
"Eric Smith" <eric at brouhaha.com> writes:
Say WHAT?????
No. It *might* be easier for my 14-year-old nephew, but one would
sort of assume that any member of this list knows his/her way around
command-line FTP.
AFAIK, an FTP client is still provided with all of the major
operating systems, and bittorrent clients with none.
I'm not even going to start with the security issues.
Doc
Richard wrote:
...but its easier to share a file via bittorrent than it is to share a
file via FTP on a consumer PC. This is the kind of thing that we, as list
subscribers, can keep alive
and available through bittorrent. We could also do a DVD-R copy tree.
Bittorrent
doesn't help at all for things that only a few (less than
about five) people are trying to download at the same time. FTP is
generally *more* efficient than bittorrent for that. 
16 May
16 May
8:50 a.m.
On Thu, 2008-05-15 at 15:27 -0700, Doc Shipley wrote:
I'm not even going to start with the security
issues.
Yeah. FTP is pretty much the best example I can think of if you wanted
me to name a massive security hole. You might as well just post your
root password and IP address on some l33t h4xx0r forum.
Gordon
9:21 a.m.
Gordon JC Pearce <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> writes:
FTP is pretty much the best example I can think of if
you wanted me
to name a massive security hole.
The other problem with FTP for this sort of thing is that it often
interacts badly with NAT and firewalling (at both ends of the
connection). My preference for distributing large trees of files is
rsync, since it's designed for that, and it lets you efficiently
update an existing local copy with as little data transferred as
possible -- which is great for things like Bitsavers that are
constantly being added to.
I would imagine a collection of old databooks would be of interest to
people in the vintage radio/TV communities as well, so it certainly
sounds like a worthwhile project to me. "Voltsavers", perhaps?
--
Adam Sampson <ats at offog.org> <http://offog.org/>
17 May
17 May
12:51 a.m.
On Friday 16 May 2008 05:21, Adam Sampson wrote:
Gordon JC Pearce <gordonjcp at gjcp.net>
writes:
If we're talking about individual datasheets and app notes, we could, as I
suggested to Al offlist, add them to the stuff I have online now:
http://www.classiccmp.org/rtellason/parts-index.html
I've not yet begun to set up much with regard to tech books, though I have
some of those to put online too, when I get to that particular round tuit.
*IF* I can get at the data that's on the drives in the server that just went
down on me recently, an issue that's giving me fits lately...
"I/O error"?
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
FTP is pretty much the best example I can think
of if you wanted me
to name a massive security hole.
The other problem with FTP for this sort of thing is that it often
interacts badly with NAT and firewalling (at both ends of the
connection). My preference for distributing large trees of files is
rsync, since it's designed for that, and it lets you efficiently
update an existing local copy with as little data transferred as
possible -- which is great for things like Bitsavers that are
constantly being added to.
I would imagine a collection of old databooks would be of interest to
people in the vintage radio/TV communities as well, so it certainly
sounds like a worthwhile project to me. "Voltsavers", perhaps? 
3:12 p.m.
Adam Sampson wrote:
Gordon JC Pearce <gordonjcp at gjcp.net>
writes:
> FTP is pretty much the best example I can think of if you wanted me
> to name a massive security hole.
>
Depends on the ftp server you use, and how it's configured. chroot is
your friend here, though not your only friend.
The other problem with FTP for this sort of thing is that it often
interacts badly with NAT and firewalling (at both ends of the
connection).
Allowing for passive ftp is one way to fix this. Some NAT systems
have
a proxy for this if you don't like passive ftp, for example, OBSD's pf
uses this sort of proxy.
However, there's nothing wrong with putting this stuff on a web server
instead, which makes life a lot easier for everything except the "grab
this entire directory" option - but for that, there's always wget.
18 May
18 May
5:24 p.m.
> FTP is
pretty much the best example I can think of if you wanted me
> to name a massive security hole.
Depends on the ftp server you use, and how
it's configured. chroot
is your friend here, though not your only friend. The other
problem with FTP for this sort of thing is that it often
interacts badly with NAT and firewalling (at both ends of the
connection).
Allowing for passive ftp is one way to fix this. However, there's nothing wrong with putting this
stuff on a web
server instead, which makes life a lot easier for everything except
the "grab this entire directory" option - but for that, there's
always wget.
wget doesn't help, really, because the problem is not the fetching; the
problem is finding out what's in "this entire directory". HTTP is not
intended as a general-purpose file transfer protocol, so it's no
surprise it is a poor fit to the task. FTP, on the other hand, is
designed as, well, a File Transfer Protocol, and it does it well.
Of course, that's not to say that either can't be pressed into service
in place of the other; my own FTP area is also served up via HTTP....
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
7:43 p.m.
I've rarely had this problem or any issues with FTP.
someone I know runs a server and is forced into using a specific server with a specific
client and was having problems with their firewall.
the client wouldn't work with passive mode, no matter what we did.
I finally got it going by using active mode, but now that you mention this, I'm not
sure that was a great thing to do.
then again, when you're painted into a corner, your options are limited.
the company I work for has a client who decided on some really pinheaded ideas, despite
our best and loud protests, now pretty much anyone
can access their entire network from the internet. oy vey
----------------------------------------
From: mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 13:24:09 -0400
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: DEC8235 and MM57109N ICs
Agreed. I've run ftp.rodents.montreal.qc.ca for years, and haven't
seen any problems I can attribute to its FTP daemon.
Passive FTP doesn't actually _fix_ anything; it just papers over the
symptom, and that only for cases where the NAT in question is fronting
for the FTP client. NAT fronting for the FTP server similarly
"compels" non-passive data connections. (Put NAT on each end, and FTP
just plain doesn't work.)
Like most cases where NAT interferes with something, my recommendation
here is to get rid of the NAT. It breaks the fundamental assumptions
underlying IP-based networking, and it's a tribute to the robustness of
the protocols involved that breakage symptoms are as rare as they are.
_________________________________________________________________
If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which combines four
overlapping crossword puzzles into one!
http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208
> FTP
is pretty much the best example I can think of if you wanted me
> to name a massive security hole.
Depends on the ftp server you use, and how
it's configured. chroot
is your friend here, though not your only friend. The other
problem with FTP for this sort of thing is that it often
interacts badly with NAT and firewalling (at both ends of the
connection).
Allowing for passive ftp is one way to fix this. However, there's nothing wrong with putting
this stuff on a web
server instead, which makes life a lot easier for everything except
the "grab this entire directory" option - but for that, there's
always wget.
wget doesn't help, really, because the problem is not the fetching; the
problem is finding out what's in "this entire directory". HTTP is not
intended as a general-purpose file transfer protocol, so it's no
surprise it is a poor fit to the task. FTP, on the other hand, is
designed as, well, a File Transfer Protocol, and it does it well.
Of course, that's not to say that either can't be pressed into service
in place of the other; my own FTP area is also served up via HTTP....
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
8:12 p.m.
Dan wrote:
the company I work for has a client who decided on
some really pinheaded
ideas, despite our best and loud protests, now pretty much anyone
can access their entire network from the internet. oy vey
I think the best one can hope for in such a situation is that your
employer has good documentation that it made specific recommendations
to the client that were ignored, so that your employer has a good
defense when the client sues.
16 May
16 May
11:40 a.m.
On Friday 16 May 2008, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
On Thu, 2008-05-15 at 15:27 -0700, Doc Shipley wrote:
Huh? I assume that we're talking about anonymous FTP, and that we're
running a version with the latest security updates in place... FTP with
a username and password (well, if it has any access beyond the FTP
repository on the machine) sent in plaintext across the "internet
cloud" probably isn't a smart idea.
Of course, if you use http instead, that means that your content will
(probably) get index by the likes of Google, so that other people can
actually find it...
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
I'm not even going to start with the
security issues.
Yeah. FTP is pretty much the best example I can think of if you
wanted me to name a massive security hole. You might as well just
post your root password and IP address on some l33t h4xx0r forum.
11:52 p.m.
Gordon wrote:
Yeah. FTP is pretty much the best example I can think
of if you wanted
me to name a massive security hole. You might as well just post your
root password and IP address on some l33t h4xx0r forum.
Depends a whole lot on what FTP server software you use, on what
operating system, and how it's configured.
I've had an FTP server exposed to the world for over ten years, and
it hasn't yet caused me trouble, because I was *very* careful about
how I set it up.
Eric
15 May
15 May
5:52 p.m.
The big problem will be their size and postprocessing
them. I don't
know if Jay is going to want something this big on bitsavers.
How big are we talking? I have a machine with space for another PATA
drive; it's not on an especially fast line, but if that doesn't bother
people, I certainly wouldn't mind dropping a big disk on it and hosting
some stuff - I think PATA disks are still available.
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
6068
days inactive
6071
days old
20 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
ats＠offog.org -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
dgahling＠hotmail.com -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
gordonjcp＠gjcp.net -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
legalize＠xmission.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
mouse＠Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA -
pat＠computer-refuge.org -
ray＠arachelian.com -
rdawson16＠hotmail.com -
rtellason＠verizon.net