6 Jul
2009
6 Jul
'09
6:43 a.m.
I just acquired a rather unusual ADM3A. At first glance, it looks just like every other
ADM3A, in beige rather than the more popular blue, but still, common. This particular
terminal has an unusual keyboard:
The key to the left of "Q", usually Escape, is labeled "SAMPLE COPY".
The key in the upper right, usually "~/HOME", is labeled "STOP"
The key to the left of RETURN, usually "Line Feed", is now "STATUS".
The key to the right of RETURN, usually "HERE IS", is blank.
Directly below return, the "\" key is now RUBOUT, shifted is "|"
To the right of that key, is a double-width key, "CONTINUE"
The key in the lower right, usually "CLEAR" is blank.
Other oddities are the lack of arrows on the J and K keys, while they remain on the H and
L keys. X also bears DELETE.
And, like every other ADM3A out there, this one is missing the logo plate, so no OEM
markings available. Any ideas what system this might have been used on? Inside looks
pretty normal. Lower case option is not installed.
-Ian
6 Jul
6 Jul
11 a.m.
Sounds like someone replaced the keycaps with keys specific to a
particular application?
Can you post a link to a photo of the keyboard?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
3:02 p.m.
This is a terminal customized for use with Xerox centralized
production printers. 8700, 9700, late 1970's to early 1980's as I
recall. I have two of these terminals on-hand, one still has the
Xerox logo plate, the other does not. Both are operational though.
The terminal was set up with custom commands apparently, so that
pressing a particular key would send an entire command (This may have
been handled on the controller side though). Working from memory
here, as it's been a few years since we decommissioned our 9700. Our
current printer, a Xerox 4090, has a similiar setup, with a newer LINK
brand ADM3A terminal.
The "SAMPLE COPY" button would send the full command to request a
sample copy of the output. STOP halted the printer; CONTINUE
continued printing the current job. STATUS would give information on
jobs in the print queue (accounting ID, pages printed, total pages
spooled to the print controller, etc). CLEAR would clear the entire
input line. RUBOUT, I never used but I think it wipes out the
currently selected word. To my knowledge, there was user operable no
cursor positioning available of any kind. Any typos had to be
remedied with either a change command (c/error/correction) or by
retyping the entire line. The print controller was a PDP11/34 (or
/34A), with various custom option cards and a bus expansion box
installed. Removable-platter hard disk by CDC; StorageTek vacuum
chamber 9-track tape drive. 800/1600/3200 bpi base, 6250 was an
option.
If anyone would like more info, I have complete service manuals on
the 9700 printer (and a few parts) available.
Also, DigiBarn has a page on the 9700 which is a bit dated. It also
shows a different setup than what I ran. Ours had a full-height Xerox
controller, as opposed to the PERQ T2 based controller.
--Shaun
--
"If you live to be a hundred, I want to live to be a hundred minus
one day, so I never have to live without you." -- Winnie The Pooh
http://www.lungs4amber.org
4:55 p.m.
In article <f72ef6490907061202y1b98f990nbeee58c73365c82a at mail.gmail.com>,
Wulf daMan <wulfcub at gmail.com> writes:
This is a terminal customized for use with Xerox
centralized
production printers. 8700, 9700, late 1970's to early 1980's as I
recall. I have two of these terminals on-hand, one still has the
Xerox logo plate, the other does not. Both are operational though.
The terminal was set up with custom commands apparently, so that
pressing a particular key would send an entire command (This may have
been handled on the controller side though). [...]
This is a question that can be answered really quick by hooking it up
to a serial port and seeing what gets transmitted when you press that
key. I'm guessing there's nothing special about the terminal other
than the keycaps and the logo plate. If it really does do something
different, then it would be good to capture the ROM images.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
10:55 p.m.
Given that the ADM-3a is a truly 'dumb' terminal - in the sense that it's all
hardwired logic - I agree that it's most likely custom keycaps on the terminal and
custom software on the target computer. Unlike later terminals, there wasn't a
microprocessor under the hood, which in some ways makes the ADM-3a even more intriguing.
But the only modification of which I'm aware - providing for lower-case characters -
involved a change of character generation ROM and to some selection logic. (I did that on
one of mine.) -- Ian
________________________________________
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
Richard [legalize at xmission.com]
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:55 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: LSI ADM3A with an unusual keyboard
In article <f72ef6490907061202y1b98f990nbeee58c73365c82a at mail.gmail.com>,
Wulf daMan <wulfcub at gmail.com> writes:
This is a terminal customized for use with Xerox
centralized
production printers. 8700, 9700, late 1970's to early 1980's as I
recall. I have two of these terminals on-hand, one still has the
Xerox logo plate, the other does not. Both are operational though.
The terminal was set up with custom commands apparently, so that
pressing a particular key would send an entire command (This may have
been handled on the controller side though). [...]
This is a question that can be answered really quick by hooking it up
to a serial port and seeing what gets transmitted when you press that
key. I'm guessing there's nothing special about the terminal other
than the keycaps and the logo plate. If it really does do something
different, then it would be good to capture the ROM images.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
11:03 p.m.
In article <FF6AB92D97A23A409701CDBF66F03FCD30CBA6EC at 505fuji>,
Ian King <IanK at vulcan.com> writes:
Given that the ADM-3a is a truly 'dumb'
terminal - in the sense that it's
all hardwired logic -
Its SSI logic? I thought it had a microprocessor in there.
Did the ADM5 have a microprocessor?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
7 Jul
7 Jul
12:14 a.m.
ISTR the ADM5 was their first microprocessor-based product. The ADM-3a did have MSI
serial components - as I recall, it was two separate chips for transmitter and receiver,
but still single components for each rather than SSI (shift registers and clocks and such,
like on an Omnibus M8650). But the bulk of it was SSI. -- isk
________________________________________
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
Richard [legalize at xmission.com]
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 8:03 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: LSI ADM3A with an unusual keyboard
In article <FF6AB92D97A23A409701CDBF66F03FCD30CBA6EC at 505fuji>,
Ian King <IanK at vulcan.com> writes:
Given that the ADM-3a is a truly 'dumb'
terminal - in the sense that it's
all hardwired logic -
Its SSI logic? I thought it had a microprocessor in there.
Did the ADM5 have a microprocessor?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
1 a.m.
Oops, my bad: the ADM5 was hardwired as well. One comment (I found on Google) was,
"at least you didn't have to install the upper/lower case kit."
The reason I'm so certain the ADM-3a was not microprocessor based: once upon a time,
my (then) girlfriend came home to tell me that she saw a dumpster in which some folks were
dumping what looked like computer boards. As it turned out, they were throwing away
various pieces/parts of ADM-3a's, including the circuit board that filled the entire
base of the unit. The ICs on that board were SOCKETED! I pulled them all (bwah-hah-hah),
and many are still in my collection of TTL parts. As it happened, ONE of those boards
contained a lower-case-character ROM.
Years later, when I acquired my PDP-11/34, part of the deal was to take ALL of the
terminals he had with it, which included several ADM-3a's. I looked through my chip
collection and rediscovered the lowercase ROM, which now graces one of my 3a's and
makes it a lot easier to use with UNIX 6th Ed. (which is what I run on my /34). I really
should dup it one of these days.... -- Ian
________________________________________
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ian
King [IanK at vulcan.com]
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 9:14 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: LSI ADM3A with an unusual keyboard
ISTR the ADM5 was their first microprocessor-based product. The ADM-3a did have MSI
serial components - as I recall, it was two separate chips for transmitter and receiver,
but still single components for each rather than SSI (shift registers and clocks and such,
like on an Omnibus M8650). But the bulk of it was SSI. -- isk
________________________________________
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
Richard [legalize at xmission.com]
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 8:03 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: LSI ADM3A with an unusual keyboard
In article <FF6AB92D97A23A409701CDBF66F03FCD30CBA6EC at 505fuji>,
Ian King <IanK at vulcan.com> writes:
Given that the ADM-3a is a truly 'dumb'
terminal - in the sense that it's
all hardwired logic -
Its SSI logic? I thought it had a microprocessor in there.
Did the ADM5 have a microprocessor?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
1:31 a.m.
On 6 Jul 2009 at 22:00, Ian King wrote:
The reason I'm so certain the ADM-3a was not
microprocessor based:
once upon a time, my (then) girlfriend came home to tell me that she
saw a dumpster in which some folks were dumping what looked like
computer boards. As it turned out, they were throwing away various
pieces/parts of ADM-3a's, including the circuit board that filled the
entire base of the unit. The ICs on that board were SOCKETED! I
pulled them all (bwah-hah-hah), and many are still in my collection of
TTL parts. As it happened, ONE of those boards contained a
lower-case-character ROM.
The ADM3A was deployed at an interesting time--microprocessors and
their peripherals were still pretty expensive and it's not clear that
much of a savings in real estate could have been realized.
Consider, for example, one of the terminals used frequently with the
MITS Altair and IMSAI 8080--the SWTP TV Typewriter. No
microprocessor, no LSI, save for a UART. It worked fine even with
those power-hungry 2102 SRAMs. A microprocessor version would have
been more expensive to build and probably not any smaller.
It didn't hurt that the ADM3A was an exceedingly dumb terminal.
Smart, page-editing terminals benefitted greatly from
microprocessors, even slow ones like the 8008.
On the other hand, when the LSI support chips came along, Wyse made a
small fortune offering cheap, fairly smart terminals using MPUs.
(was it an 8085 that they used in the WY50?)
--Chuck
3:32 a.m.
In article <FF6AB92D97A23A409701CDBF66F03FCD30CBA6F0 at 505fuji>,
Ian King <IanK at vulcan.com> writes:
Oops, my bad: the ADM5 was hardwired as well. [...]
After you mentioned that the ADM3A was discrete logic, I went to
bitsavers and perused the maintenance manual. The theory of operation
section makes it quite clear that its all discrete logic doing the
row/column counting and character decoding. For some reason, I
thought that the ADM3 was microprocessor based. I guess I never
really looked that carefully inside! I have a number of terminal
and graphics devices that are discrete logic and I find them
interesting.
I wonder how small an FPGA could be and still contain all the ADM3a
discrete logic :-)
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
1:31 a.m.
Richard wrote:
In article
<FF6AB92D97A23A409701CDBF66F03FCD30CBA6F0 at 505fuji>,
Ian King <IanK at vulcan.com> writes:
See Spare Time Gizmos for a very small dumb terminal. This is the cheap
video cookbook
idea taken to the fullest. 2 1/2" x 4" PCB gives you every thing you
need but a CASE and
a 9 volt wall wart. You don't get a ADM3A but a VT220 instead. How ever
if you
want you can reprogram the CPU to emulate I guess almost any kind of
basic terminal.
Ben.
http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/VT.htm
Oops, my bad: the ADM5 was hardwired as well.
[...]
After you mentioned that the ADM3A was discrete logic, I went to
bitsavers and perused the maintenance manual. The theory of operation
section makes it quite clear that its all discrete logic doing the
row/column counting and character decoding. For some reason, I
thought that the ADM3 was microprocessor based. I guess I never
really looked that carefully inside! I have a number of terminal
and graphics devices that are discrete logic and I find them
interesting.
I wonder how small an FPGA could be and still contain all the ADM3a
discrete logic :-)
3:02 p.m.
ISTR the ADM5 was their first microprocessor-based product. The ADM-3a did=
have MSI serial components - as I recall, it was two separate chips for tr=
ansmitter and receiver, but still single components for each rather than SS=
I am suprised it didn't use one of those 40 pin dumb UARTs, like the 1602
/ AY-3-1015 etc. The only separate Tx/Rx chips I've come across were the
ones HP used in the 11284 (serial interface for the 9830) and 59403
(common carrier interface for HPIB) and supproted synchronous operation too.
-tony
5528
days inactive
5529
days old
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