----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason T" <silent700 at gmail.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 10:46 PM Subject: Re: Commodore 65 = $5,000 it's are). The buyer seems to be a coin collector, wonder what he wants with it. Would anybody here pay $5K for one of these (did anybody)?

----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" <spectre at floodgap.com> To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 11:21 PM Subject: Re: Commodore 65 = $5,000 considering of I am sure $5k is nothing to some people on this list, the question I have in my mind is will somebody try to use this or will it end up as a check on some collectors list. Am I the only one who hopes to never complete his collection? It gives me a reason to keep looking, something to look forward to. TZ

At 8:32 PM -0800 11/11/07, Cameron Kaiser wrote: Agreed. BTW, does any emulator exist for the C65? An FPGA implementation would be sweet! I'd be willing to pay a nice chunk of change for a working C65, but am not about to spend anywhere near $5k. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

On 12/11/07 04:21, "Cameron Kaiser" <spectre at floodgap.com> wrote: Up until shortly after the 2005 Classic Gaming Expo in the UK my Rev 3 C65 was working fully too, and certainly turned heads every time it was exhibited. I had to really keep an eye on it because a couple of wags kept putting it in C64 mode :) I really need to update my own web page too, particularly now that I know why the C65 was created in the first place.... http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Commodore/c65/index.php And no, even with the current USD/GBP exchange rate I still couldn't afford $5K! -- Adrian/Witchy Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer collection?

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ensor" <classiccmp at memory-alpha.org.uk> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 12:04 AM Subject: Re: Commodore 65 = $5,000 People might think I am cheap, but every cent I put into my collection I consider gone forever. I think investing in hobbies is a scam, a few people with money toss it around driving the price up so they can sell at a profit until the hobby implodes (every hobby has gone through that and most never recover from the inflated prices). All this does is keep people with shallow pockets from enjoying the hobby as much as they could have otherwise. TZ

No comment. -- Will, proud to have a large dick since 1998.

----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" <wdonzelli at gmail.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 12:37 AM Subject: Re: Commodore 65 = $5,000 What I meant to say is that the investor who get in turn the hobby into a business. Get in buy low, trade items around between other investors to drive up the costs, sell out and find another pump and dump hobby. It leaves people thinking their stuff is worth money when the people with the money are long gone. Granted people will dig up those rarities and trade them around so they do not get trashed, so there is a plus side to it (things get preserved). Exactly why would it matter if the big pocket collector has the item in his personal museum shrine, or in a cardboard box on the shelf next to his bowling ball, nobody else is ever going to see it again until he is dead. Others less well to do collectors seem to get something, play with it, and then trade it for something else they want and never had so things keep circulating in your lifetime. The only thing stopping me from fighting over the big boys for my collectables is that nothing I collect would interest the big deep pocket collectors in the first place. Everything I like was made in the thousands or millions, outbid me today and I just wait for the next one, or find it at a garage sale for $1. I guess if I was older and used computers pre 1980, I might want some of the rarer systems that command money, but they just don't mean anything to me so I don't bother. If Bill Gates wanted the most complete collection of vintage computers in existence all he has to do is hand Sellam a credit card, and one of his minions a check for a building to house it all in and wait a few months for delivery and setup. What fun would that be? Do you respect somebody more if they found a rusty HEMI Cuda in some old barn and spent 5 years restoring it to mint working condition as a labor of love, or somebody who seen one at an auction and just cut a check for it? TZ

It's all on his submarine somewhere. Some guy with metal teeth who doesn't talk much is guarding it, but they keep having trouble with some English dude and his martinis. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- If there was a hole, I would jump into it. -- Gackt Camui ------------------

Good point! I should have rigged it or hand-edited the sig or something. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Mickey Mouse wears a Spiro Agnew watch. ------------------------------------

On Mon, 2007-11-12 at 04:39 -0700, Richard wrote: Mmm. I'm inclined to agree, but I hate seeing stuff not being used, *properly* used and loved for its function as well as its form. I have a few old analogue synthesizers, one of which requires two sets of six completely unobtainable chips. Well, truth be told, they pop up in onesy-twoesy quantities on eBay, where if you're not careful the chip collectors snaffle them. And you already know how much I dislike chip collectors... Back to the synth. A guy I know on another list said "Oh you should sample it and then put it away somewhere, if one of the chips goes you might never get a replacement and it would never work again, don't play it, you'll wear out the rare chips" kind of thing. "Stuff that", says I, "if an unobtainable part goes I'll *make* a new one if I have to, or an equivalent, and I'll *enjoy* it while it does work." So, no, I don't like to tell other people what to do with their collections. But I really do hate trailer queens. To avoid going even more OT and offending Jay's sensibilities, I won't post the link to the James May clip about model trains. Tapping the appropriate keywords into YouTube's search will bring it forth. Gordon

----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" <wdonzelli at gmail.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 10:41 AM Subject: Re: Commodore 65 = $5,000 Sure some Big Boys are nice enough to show you around their collection, if you happen to meet them socially and live in their area. What would be wrong with having the top 1,000 computer rarities being spread out among 1,000 different people in different parts of the world instead of in one persons private collection 99% of people cannot go to see even if it was open to the public? When I was in highschool my friends and I used to collect coins, stamps, baseball cards, and comic books. A friend and I used to go to the local stamp and coin dealer on Saturday mornings to buy our supplies and read the Linn stamp news to see what items they had picked to explore in that issue. Sure enough when the owner was done buying or selling to the bigger collectors he would bring over a rarity for us to look at and tell us the history of the item. For a kid with little money trying to save up for college that was a very nice thing to do. These days the smaller shops are gone and the larger ones are by appointment only and you better have a good reference and a big bank account to get in. A friend in college was very big into comic books when he was young and had some rare older items he would let me look at, these days the rarities are encased in a plastic holder, graded, sealed in a tamper proof case, and are not to be opened and looked at. Give it some time and the rare vintage computers will be in the same boat as the rest of the hobby market (an investment). There have been articles in the Wall Street Journal about the vintage computer hobby. Its just nice being able to enjoy a (what used to be a geek only) hobby without having to invest a mint into it. Stamp collecting used to be a cheap hobby until is started attracting considerable attention in the 1930's (pricing guides) and became an investment in the 1980's (crazy price increases). Who's name did I smear? I mentioned Bill Gates because people know him as being very rich (and as others have pointed out he isn't even a vintage computer collector). As you mentioned the bigger collections tend to be better looked after when the person dies, so its not all bad. I just have a bad feeling when a hobby turns into an investment, and people show up just to make money. TZ

Many are here, on this list. Sorry, but when you learn how the antiques market works, you will see that you really are way off base. Most antiques are not very good investments, and the number of people investing in them is surprisingly small. Many have lost their shirts. Think about it. Think about all this. Whining gets you nowhere. It does more harm than good to the whole deal. Next... -- Will

----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 6:35 PM Subject: Re: Commodore 65 = $5,000 in I never meant to imply Sellam would sell his machine(s), but he seems resourceful and knowledgeable enough to place a buyer with a seller so all parties are happy with a deal.

In article <m1Irih4-000J3cC at p850ug1>, ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) writes: Yes, that's why *you* have the machine. Where the snobbery comes in is when you poo-poo the reasons why *other* people have their machines, just like you did in this post. This attitude comes up over and over again in your posts, Tony and it really detracts from them. Just because someone does something different from you, doesn't make your way better and their way lesser. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

Tony Duell wrote: As much as Tony is a hardware guy, I'm a software guy on the other end of the spectrum. And yet I wholeheartedly agree with this, to the point where pretty much all of my hobbyist programming is done on old iron. It's not enough that I use my old machines; I have to make them jump through new hoops :-) -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/

Golan Klinger wrote: Could it be shilling involved? Peace... Sridhar

Teo Zenios wrote: I try to never spend money on the hobby other than fuel costs (I much prefer meeting people face to face when I can, so I've driven halfway across the country lots of times to pick stuff up or drop stuff off...) Despite that, I've had an awful lot of rare things, prototypes, 'internal' documentation for machines etc. pass through my hands. There's a whole world out there beyond the likes of Ebay and the interesting stuff is still out there and needing homes - it just takes effort in talking to people and chasing up leads to find it, rather than waiting for it to fall into your lap via a web query. Personally I like that 'detective work' side of things anyway, so I'd still be doing it even if I did want to throw serious cash at the hobby. Plus you get to meet and chat with some pretty interesting characters along the way, which is half the fun :-) Would I pay $5k for a machine? Not when there will still be others around lurking in basements, or which can be traded for other items of equal interest (I do like a good bit of bartering once in a while :-) If it were the last one left of its kind? Maybe, but only if I raised the $5k by selling other bits of my collection. There are more interesting things in life to lose $5k on. (I'm not sure why I'm like this with computers - I used to pour silly amounts of money into classic cars. Maybe I see vintage computing as a zero-cost hobby just because it *can* be, with a little effort; it's much harder to buy, restore and run an old car on no budget) cheers Jules

You have climbed the ladder of enlightenment. -- Will

From: "Teo Zenios" <teoz at neo.rr.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 3:14 PM Subject: Re: Commodore 65 = $5,000 Near complete ? Yeah, I would. Lance // http://www.commodore128.org //

of the internal logic to load from the internal drive and run the demo slideshow. The 64 mode even works, somewhat. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- If elected, I will win. -- Pat Paulsen for President -----------------------