3 Jul
2005
3 Jul
'05
4:24 p.m.
Here's the response I got from the seller who listed that plywood box with
keyboard mounted to it:
"I am so sorry for the late response. I did not even know about this ebay
messages, I have 53 messages now to go through. I thought they all went to
my email account. But I guess only some do. Again, I was not trying to
dodge your question. I have missed many about 90%. I was not aware of this
change in yahoo email."
That's his "answer", which I really appreciate because, you know, I would
really be bothered if the guy tried to dodge my question. Of course, this
doesn't explain how he somehow didn't miss the 5 questions he did respond
to which are displayed on the auction page (see for yourself: item
#5213140640).
BTW, I received this same exact message twice in response to the two
inquiries I submitted to him, so I'm sure the other 53 questions got
"answered" in a similar fashion.
Another fine example of why I can't stand eBay.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
3 Jul
3 Jul
6:36 p.m.
Here's the response I got from the seller who
listed that plywood box with
keyboard mounted to it:
I should mentioned (a bit late, maybe) that I had an "issue" with the
seller of the wooden Apple thing some time ago. Basically, I do not trust
him
one bit.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
8:19 p.m.
I got that too. What an asshole.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 4:25 PM
To: Classic Computers Mailing List
Subject: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
Here's the response I got from the seller who listed that plywood box with
keyboard mounted to it:
"I am so sorry for the late response. I did not even know about this ebay
messages, I have 53 messages now to go through. I thought they all went to
my email account. But I guess only some do. Again, I was not trying to dodge
your question. I have missed many about 90%. I was not aware of this change
in yahoo email."
That's his "answer", which I really appreciate because, you know, I would
really be bothered if the guy tried to dodge my question. Of course, this
doesn't explain how he somehow didn't miss the 5 questions he did respond to
which are displayed on the auction page (see for yourself: item
#5213140640).
BTW, I received this same exact message twice in response to the two
inquiries I submitted to him, so I'm sure the other 53 questions got
"answered" in a similar fashion.
Another fine example of why I can't stand eBay.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
Festival
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers
]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org
]
4 Jul
4 Jul
5:22 a.m.
In message <Pine.LNX.4.33.0507031319430.24456-100000 at siconic.com>
Vintage Computer Festival <vcf at siconic.com> wrote:
Another fine example of why I can't stand eBay.
Here's a fine example of why I can't stand it.
On Sunday morning I added an item to my watchlist - a Microprofessor MPF-1,
complete, boxed, with manuals. Supposedly perfect condition too. Also checked
that it was still pointed at my Gmail address. It was. The auction was due to
end at 4PM on Sunday (ie. yesterday).
When did I get the "Item is ending within 5 hours" message? That's right. 5
minutes ago. Followed by an "Item has ended, YOU LOSE!" message. Fecking
stupid thing.
And people wonder why I hate ebay. What really pisses me off is that it's
done this to me THREE TIMES this week, to three different email addresses.
Bleagh. I wanted that MPF, too - it only went for ?16 - my max was way higher
than that :( :( :(
Later.
--
Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
philpem at philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
... As I said before, I never repeat myself.
10:11 a.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
At 10:22 AM 7/4/05 +0100, Phil wrote:
Here's a fine example of why I can't stand it.
On Sunday morning I added an item to my watchlist - a Microprofessor MPF-1,
complete, boxed, with manuals. Supposedly perfect condition too. Also checked
that it was still pointed at my Gmail address. It was. The auction was due to
end at 4PM on Sunday (ie. yesterday).
When did I get the "Item is ending within 5 hours" message? That's right. 5
minutes ago. Followed by an "Item has ended, YOU LOSE!" message. Fecking
stupid thing.
And people wonder why I hate ebay. What really pisses me off is that it's
done this to me THREE TIMES this week, to three different email addresses.
Bleagh. I wanted that MPF, too - it only went for ?16 - my max was way higher
than that :( :( :(
Don't take this personally BUT: Why didn't you bid your max bid the
first time??????? If you had you would have won the item.
What is it with all you people that want to wait till the last second to
bid and then you whine when don't win. Late messages aren't necessarily
E-bays fault. The InterNET is a network of servers, relays, etc and
messages can be delayed for many reasons. That's one of the good things
about E-bay's system, you don't have to be there or even on-line when the
auction nears it's end, the system will do the bidding for you. I NEVER get
outbid on things that I really want. I'm sure Al and others can tell you
the same thing. You lost because you wanted to play stupid games with
E-bay's system!
I don't understand why some of ypeople on this list are always
complaining about E-bay. Where else do you think you're going to find a
complete Microprofessor MPF-1 for ?16 and never leave your desk? If you
want bargains you have to go hunt for them or take the occasional one, like
this one, that show up on E-bay. If you don't like E-bay's high prices
then get off the computer and go start looking in the surplus stores, scrap
yards, flea markets, etc etc etc. There are still PLENTY of bargains to be
had. I have a LOT of great computers (3x SB-180s, 2x Rubicons, 2x Altairs,
10x Intels, 13x AIM-65s, HP-9100, 4x HP-35 Red Dots, 5x HP-1000s, PDP-8,
etc etc etc etc) and NONE of them came from E-bay. I got ALL of them the
hard way, by LOOKING!
my 2 cents worth,
Joe
10:29 a.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
Amen and Amen.
I sell a lot on E Bay (and buy also) but I have a policy that if there
is no bid on my item 6 hours before closing, I pull the item. I will
NOT sell it to a sniper who wants to get it for 1 cent over the
minimum bid. If there is a bid on it then its a fair auction, but if
you watch a real life auction the auctioneer does not say "going,
going, oopes theres a bid, gone." After a lat minute bit he will
open it up again for more bids. E Bay used to do that back in the
beginning. If there was a late bit it automatically extended the time
for 5 or 10 minutes. But they dont do that now, so I pull the item if
its not getting bids. Another tactic I use is to raise the starting
bid at 6 hours till end if there are no bide. This will get some of
them off the pot.
Now, do I snipe? Yes I do, but I dont bitch when the auction ends
early or if someone outbids me or if I forget to come back to the
auction and miss the ending.
On 7/4/05, Joe R. <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
At 10:22 AM 7/4/05 +0100, Phil wrote:
--
Jim Isbell
"If you are not living on the edge, well then,
you are just taking up too much space."
W5JAI
1967 UltraVan #257
1936 SS-100 (replica)
1970 E-Type
1982 XJ6
1985 XJS
1988 XJ40
Here's a fine example of why I can't stand it.
On Sunday morning I added an item to my watchlist - a Microprofessor MPF-1,
complete, boxed, with manuals. Supposedly perfect condition too. Also checked
that it was still pointed at my Gmail address. It was. The auction was due to
end at 4PM on Sunday (ie. yesterday).
When did I get the "Item is ending within 5 hours" message? That's right. 5
minutes ago. Followed by an "Item has ended, YOU LOSE!" message. Fecking
stupid thing.
And people wonder why I hate ebay. What really pisses me off is that it's
done this to me THREE TIMES this week, to three different email addresses.
Bleagh. I wanted that MPF, too - it only went for ?16 - my max was way higher
than that :( :( :(
Don't take this personally BUT: Why didn't you bid your max bid the
first time??????? If you had you would have won the item.
What is it with all you people that want to wait till the last second to
bid and then you whine when don't win. Late messages aren't necessarily
E-bays fault. The InterNET is a network of servers, relays, etc and
messages can be delayed for many reasons. That's one of the good things
about E-bay's system, you don't have to be there or even on-line when the
auction nears it's end, the system will do the bidding for you. I NEVER get
outbid on things that I really want. I'm sure Al and others can tell you
the same thing. You lost because you wanted to play stupid games with
E-bay's system!
I don't understand why some of ypeople on this list are always
complaining about E-bay. Where else do you think you're going to find a
complete Microprofessor MPF-1 for ?16 and never leave your desk? If you
want bargains you have to go hunt for them or take the occasional one, like
this one, that show up on E-bay. If you don't like E-bay's high prices
then get off the computer and go start looking in the surplus stores, scrap
yards, flea markets, etc etc etc. There are still PLENTY of bargains to be
had. I have a LOT of great computers (3x SB-180s, 2x Rubicons, 2x Altairs,
10x Intels, 13x AIM-65s, HP-9100, 4x HP-35 Red Dots, 5x HP-1000s, PDP-8,
etc etc etc etc) and NONE of them came from E-bay. I got ALL of them the
hard way, by LOOKING!
my 2 cents worth,
Joe
2:13 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the"Apple-1"
There are certainly some big problems with eBay's system.
But overall, I agree with the prior posting (I forget whose) noting that no
place else can we find so much stuff without leaving our desks. That is one
heck of a good deal.
There are several hundred to maybe a thousand of us here on classiccmp.
There could easily be twice or ten times as many collectors who have no idea
classiccmp, vcf, etc. exist. I'd bet there are also thousands of people who
just desire one particular item for some particular reason (technical,
sentiment, etc.), and they just go on eBay, get that item, and then walk
away. Those people aren't any less human - or less collector - than the
rest of us.
Now, eventually, those people will Google for some help on their new vintage
machine. When they do, they'll promptly find our resources, like
classiccmp, vcf, old-computers.com, and countless machine-specific sites.
So while it's absolutely true that some big parts of eBay do suck, I'd argue
that some parts of ALL large systems suck, but that we just happen to be a
group affected by these parts rather acutely. And I'd argue that eBay
probably brings just as many new collectors into our hobby and to our
preferred resources, than it could turn away.
2:17 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the"Apple-1"
I'd bet there are also thousands of people who
just desire one particular item for some particular reason (technical,
sentiment, etc.), and they just go on eBay, get that item, and then walk
away. Those people aren't any less human - or less collector - than the
rest of us.
There is also the "cross collecting" effect, well known in the antiques
business. An item may "fall into" two or more completely unrelated classes
equally well. For example, the Hello Kitty laptop would appeal to vintage
computer collectors AND Hello Kitty collectors equally.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
2:32 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the"Apple-1"
Well, as a collector I am not happy that everyone knows what something
is worth. Cummon, who among us would not buy omething below market if
we could? And E Bay has done a lot to teach the world the value of
items that were once thought to be trash. This causes my collecting
costs to go up. I dont like that. BUT....................
As a seller, I like having a huge market to sell to intead of just the
local market (Which is tinny here in south Texas where they think Hi
Tech is refering to the Model T automobile) I also like a market that
is educated in the value of my items so I dont have to convince them.
Thee two views are conflicting, but as both a buyer and a seller I
have to ballance both views, and I think in the long run, because of
the exposure , E-Bay helps both.
I have some issues with them, such a their ban on Nazi paraphenalia,
which I could understand if it was just "modern" or Just reproductions
they were against, but something like a genuine item from the Third
Reich, is a true collectable even if you dont agree with the politics.
Yet they ban them based on the philosophy. Why not ban Christian
paraphenalia baed on philosophy...etc. etc., who is next???
On 7/4/05, Computer Collector Newsletter <news at computercollector.com> wrote:
There are certainly some big problems with eBay's
system.
But overall, I agree with the prior posting (I forget whose) noting that no
place else can we find so much stuff without leaving our desks. That is one
heck of a good deal.
There are several hundred to maybe a thousand of us here on classiccmp.
There could easily be twice or ten times as many collectors who have no idea
classiccmp, vcf, etc. exist. I'd bet there are also thousands of people who
just desire one particular item for some particular reason (technical,
sentiment, etc.), and they just go on eBay, get that item, and then walk
away. Those people aren't any less human - or less collector - than the
rest of us.
Now, eventually, those people will Google for some help on their new vintage
machine. When they do, they'll promptly find our resources, like
classiccmp, vcf, old-computers.com, and countless machine-specific sites.
So while it's absolutely true that some big parts of eBay do suck, I'd argue
that some parts of ALL large systems suck, but that we just happen to be a
group affected by these parts rather acutely. And I'd argue that eBay
probably brings just as many new collectors into our hobby and to our
preferred resources, than it could turn away.
--
Jim Isbell
"If you are not living on the edge, well then,
you are just taking up too much space."
W5JAI
1967 UltraVan #257
1936 SS-100 (replica)
1970 E-Type
1982 XJ6
1985 XJS
1988 XJ40
4:25 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the"Apple-1"
On Mon, 4 Jul 2005, 'Computer Collector Newsletter' wrote:
So while it's absolutely true that some big parts
of eBay do suck, I'd argue
that some parts of ALL large systems suck, but that we just happen to be a
group affected by these parts rather acutely. And I'd argue that eBay
probably brings just as many new collectors into our hobby and to our
preferred resources, than it could turn away.
I live in a relatively isolated area of Pennsylvania, smack dab in the
center of the state, equally inconvenient from everywhere else. There are
no major computer recyclers in the area, no high tech junkyards, and
relatively few big businesses that might be getting rid of "big iron".
The only resources available to me as a (amateur) collector are mailing
lists such as this, Freecycle and MARCH, and the surplus and salvage
center at the university. And Ebay, of course.
I have picked up a couple of 8-bit systems on Ebay, by biding my time
and waiting for the right system/price to come along. I don't get crazy
with my maximum bid and if it goes over, something else will come along.
The prices are going up, though. Big iron fascinates me, particularly the
control and maintenance panels from the old systems. It used to be that
you'd see these panels going on Ebay for what I consider to be reasonable
prices, considering that I have no other access to such items. These
days, the prices are completely out of the ballpark for my price cap,
primarily due to one or two buyers who seem to have unlimited budgets for
such things, and who buy everything in sight.
Yes, there's a lot we can complain about Ebay, but for people in the
sticks (like me), it's one of the few resources available.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
The Dixie Lion Jazz Band http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/dixie.html
The B9 Robot Builders Club B9-0014 http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/B9/
Old Technology http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
5:40 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
--- "Jim Isbell, W5JAI" <jim.isbell at gmail.com> wrote:
Amen and Amen.
I sell a lot on E Bay (and buy also) but I have a
policy that if there
is no bid on my item 6 hours before closing, I pull
the item. I will
NOT sell it to a sniper who wants to get it for 1
cent over the
minimum bid. If there is a bid on it then its a
fair auction, but if
you watch a real life auction the auctioneer does
not say "going,
going, oopes theres a bid, gone." After a lat
minute bit he will
open it up again for more bids. E Bay used to do
that back in the
beginning. If there was a late bit it automatically
extended the time
for 5 or 10 minutes. But they dont do that now, so
I pull the item if
its not getting bids. Another tactic I use is to
raise the starting
bid at 6 hours till end if there are no bide. This
will get some of
them off the pot.
Wow, that's quite a bizarre policy, you seem to be
jumping through hoops with no obvious gain, but to
each his own I guess.
The ebay auction system, for all practical purposes,
is like a sealed bid auction. In this type of auction
bidders view the auction item for, say a week, and
then submit a written sealed bid which is opened at
the end of the auction.
For an ebay auction, a sealed bid auction is
effectively created when everyone snipes at the last
second (with no time left to rebid). More specifically
an ebay auction is like a Vickrey auction, where the
winning bidder pays the seconds highest bid(that is a
second-price sealed-bid auction).
So it seems you are trying to alter ebay auction
system into a traditional open auction, fine, but
studies have shown that the final auction price is
about the same in either type of auction, that is, you
are doing alot of work for nothing, other then
satisfying some perceived emotional gain, which I
guess maybe is something.
I think if look at an ebay auction as a vickrey
auction, and just accept it as it is, you won't feel
cheated that no one is bidding on your auctions till
the last minute. Then you can save yourself a
tremendous amount of grief and time by not altering
the ending of your auctions.
__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html
11:50 a.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
In message <3.0.6.32.20050704101150.0095d4e0 at pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
"Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
What is it with all you people that want to wait
till the last second to
bid and then you whine when don't win.
I don't wait until the last second. I place a bid about four hours before the
auction ends. If it's over my max, I don't bother bidding at all.
What's the problem with that?!
Later.
--
Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
philpem at philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
... You can make it foolproof. But you can't make it damn foolproof!
12:04 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
One problem.....I have gotten so irritated by last minute bids....
when after all I paid for 7 days of bids....that I now pull any item
that does NOT have a bid at 6 Hours before the end (that misses you).
I will also sometimes up the ante rather than pull the item, sometimes
by 5X. This is to discourage last minute bidders. This really works
if you put the bidders on notice in your description that you plan on
doing this. They, then, will decide wheather to "S*** or get off the
pot" as we used to say at the poker table in the old days.
On 7/4/05, Philip Pemberton <philpem at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
In message <3.0.6.32.20050704101150.0095d4e0 at
pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
"Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
--
Jim Isbell
"If you are not living on the edge, well then,
you are just taking up too much space."
W5JAI
1967 UltraVan #257
1936 SS-100 (replica)
1970 E-Type
1982 XJ6
1985 XJS
1988 XJ40
What is it with all you people that want to
wait till the last second to
bid and then you whine when don't win.
I don't wait until the last second. I place a bid about four hours before the
auction ends. If it's over my max, I don't bother bidding at all.
What's the problem with that?!
Later.
--
Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
philpem at philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
... You can make it foolproof. But you can't make it damn foolproof!
12:31 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
if you would set the starting price to what you wanted instead of trying to
save money on listing fees, then you would not have to play games. You have
decided to make life more difficult for you on eBay. It is not the late
bidders or eBay that has the problem.
I have gone on eBay, done a new type of search, found and then bid on items
that were down to their last minutes. You technique keeps people from
finding the item at the last minute.
At 12:04 PM 07/04/2005, you wrote:
One problem.....I have gotten so irritated by last
minute bids....
when after all I paid for 7 days of bids....that I now pull any item
that does NOT have a bid at 6 Hours before the end (that misses you).
I will also sometimes up the ante rather than pull the item, sometimes
by 5X. This is to discourage last minute bidders. This really works
if you put the bidders on notice in your description that you plan on
doing this. They, then, will decide wheather to "S*** or get off the
pot" as we used to say at the poker table in the old days.
1:03 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
At 12:31 PM 7/4/05 -0400, you wrote:
if you would set the starting price to what you wanted
instead of trying to
save money on listing fees, then you would not have to play games.
What does the starting price have to do with people bidding at the last
minute?? I don't see any connection.
I always start my auctions cheap. First I don't see any reason to enrich
E-bay any more than necessary but also I frequently don't know the value of
an item and it's simple to start it cheap and let the market place set the
price. I've used E-bay for almost ten years and I've watched the prices of
certain items closely and I've frequently found tht people will not bid on
items that start high even though the same item will bring more than the
same high starting price when started at a lower price and allowed to
escalate naturally.
You have
decided to make life more difficult for you on eBay. It
is not the late
bidders or eBay that has the problem.
It IS the late bidding that was the problem in this case!!!! He waited
too long and forgot to bid! Explain how the starting price had any bearing
on that if you can.
I have gone on eBay, done a new type of search, found and then bid on items
that were down to their last minutes. You technique keeps people from
finding the item at the last minute.
You said "done a new type of search,". If you had done the same search
earlier you would have found exactly the same items!
Joe
At 12:04 PM 07/04/2005, you wrote:
One problem.....I have gotten so irritated by last
minute bids....
when after all I paid for 7 days of bids....that I now pull any item
that does NOT have a bid at 6 Hours before the end (that misses you).
I will also sometimes up the ante rather than pull the item, sometimes
by 5X. This is to discourage last minute bidders. This really works
if you put the bidders on notice in your description that you plan on
doing this. They, then, will decide wheather to "S*** or get off the
pot" as we used to say at the poker table in the old days.
1:25 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
The starting price does not affect the cost of the auction to the
seller, its the selling price that determines the cost. So, its not a
matter of saving money, its a matter of scaring off bidders. I like
to keep the starting bid at $1 to encourage people to bid but when it
doesnt encourage them to bid I say f*** you and pull it.
No, it doent keep them from finding them at the last minute, they are
just not there to find. With 7 days to look, I dont think I miss very
many because they are late to the party. If you are a dollar short
and 6 hours late, tough luck. Do you think a real auction house would
hold the bidding while someone ran from the parking lot to try to get
in a bid at the last minute?
I have had items with 30 or more people "watching" them. If you have
never sold items you may not know that the seller can see how many
people are "watching" the item. When you have 30 people just watching
for 5 days and no one bidding I have no sympathy for them when I
snatch the item back.
It costs me the 35 cent listing fee but thats better than spending 30
minutes packing something for some A**H*** that bid $1 with 10 seconds
to go.
NOW, "Do I snipe?", sure, but I sure dont bitch when it doesnt work!
On 7/4/05, Steve Thatcher <melamy at earthlink.net> wrote:
if you would set the starting price to what you wanted
instead of trying to
save money on listing fees, then you would not have to play games. You have
decided to make life more difficult for you on eBay. It is not the late
bidders or eBay that has the problem.
I have gone on eBay, done a new type of search, found and then bid on items
that were down to their last minutes. You technique keeps people from
finding the item at the last minute.
At 12:04 PM 07/04/2005, you wrote:
--
Jim Isbell
"If you are not living on the edge, well then,
you are just taking up too much space."
W5JAI
1967 UltraVan #257
1936 SS-100 (replica)
1970 E-Type
1982 XJ6
1985 XJS
1988 XJ40
One problem.....I have gotten so irritated by last
minute bids....
when after all I paid for 7 days of bids....that I now pull any item
that does NOT have a bid at 6 Hours before the end (that misses you).
I will also sometimes up the ante rather than pull the item, sometimes
by 5X. This is to discourage last minute bidders. This really works
if you put the bidders on notice in your description that you plan on
doing this. They, then, will decide wheather to "S*** or get off the
pot" as we used to say at the poker table in the old days.
2 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
Jim Isbell, W5JAI wrote:
The starting price does not affect the cost of the
auction to the
seller, its the selling price that determines the cost. So, its not a
matter of saving money, its a matter of scaring off bidders. I like
to keep the starting bid at $1 to encourage people to bid but when it
doesnt encourage them to bid I say f*** you and pull it.
And what was your eBay ID again?
Doc
2:01 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
Why?
On 7/4/05, Doc Shipley <doc at mdrconsult.com> wrote:
Jim Isbell, W5JAI wrote:
--
Jim Isbell
"If you are not living on the edge, well then,
you are just taking up too much space."
W5JAI
1967 UltraVan #257
1936 SS-100 (replica)
1970 E-Type
1982 XJ6
1985 XJS
1988 XJ40
The starting price does not affect the cost of
the auction to the
seller, its the selling price that determines the cost. So, its not a
matter of saving money, its a matter of scaring off bidders. I like
to keep the starting bid at $1 to encourage people to bid but when it
doesnt encourage them to bid I say f*** you and pull it.
And what was your eBay ID again?
Doc
2:20 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
Jim Isbell, W5JAI wrote:
Why?
I typically have 15-20 watched items on my list. I *might* buy 2
items a month, so you can see that I don't bid on everything that I
track. I very often have 2 or 3 items that end within a few hours, and
either can use or can afford only one of them. Duplicate items, short
toy budget, whatever. In those cases, I *can't* enter a bid till I know
I want that particular item, and that's often in the last 20 minutes of
the auction.
I asked about your ID primarily because in the above scenario, your
items wouldn't be worth watching. Partly out of pure curiosity.
Sniping *can* benefit the buyer, price-wise. However, your
assumption that late bids are always about the money just doesn't hold
water.
Doc
On 7/4/05, Doc Shipley <doc at mdrconsult.com>
wrote:
>Jim Isbell, W5JAI wrote:
>
>
>>The starting price does not affect the cost of the auction to the
>>seller, its the selling price that determines the cost. So, its not a
>>matter of saving money, its a matter of scaring off bidders. I like
>>to keep the starting bid at $1 to encourage people to bid but when it
>>doesnt encourage them to bid I say f*** you and pull it.
>
> And what was your eBay ID again?
2:43 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
As I said, loosing one bid out of millions is not my worry. I might
just as likely lose a bid because someone was looking 10 minutes
BEFORE I got it listed. But I cant worry over that one either!!!!
Its just a matter of sliding the window one way or the other. I wont
spend my time trying to satisfy one bidder in millions.
As to how you would recognise my auction, a I said earlier, I tell you
up front that I will do that. Its no surprise. If you see my ad you
will be able to bid on it and you will see that I plan on changing it
if no one bids.
Also, if you dont know enough to know you are interested to the extent
of the value of a minimum bid of $1, then I surely dont think you
will change your mind 20 minutes before the auction ends. So I wont
miss you. Go ahead and bit $1 and if you end up with it you rot a
bargain...or at least if you dont want the item you can send me the $1
and I wont ship it to save you the shipping cost.
In a real auction you would have to register, give a credit card
number or deposit check and get a number before you were allowed to
place the first bid!!! And if you were running in from the parking
lot they would not hold things while you put up the deposit or credit
card.
Please tell me how sniping helps the seller?????
On 7/4/05, Doc Shipley <doc at mdrconsult.com> wrote:
Jim Isbell, W5JAI wrote:
--
Jim Isbell
"If you are not living on the edge, well then,
you are just taking up too much space."
W5JAI
1967 UltraVan #257
1936 SS-100 (replica)
1970 E-Type
1982 XJ6
1985 XJS
1988 XJ40
Why?
I typically have 15-20 watched items on my list. I *might* buy 2
items a month, so you can see that I don't bid on everything that I
track. I very often have 2 or 3 items that end within a few hours, and
either can use or can afford only one of them. Duplicate items, short
toy budget, whatever. In those cases, I *can't* enter a bid till I know
I want that particular item, and that's often in the last 20 minutes of
the auction.
I asked about your ID primarily because in the above scenario, your
items wouldn't be worth watching. Partly out of pure curiosity.
Sniping *can* benefit the buyer, price-wise. However, your
assumption that late bids are always about the money just doesn't hold
water.
Doc
On 7/4/05, Doc Shipley <doc at
mdrconsult.com> wrote:
>Jim Isbell, W5JAI wrote:
>
>
>>The starting price does not affect the cost of the auction to the
>>seller, its the selling price that determines the cost. So, its not a
>>matter of saving money, its a matter of scaring off bidders. I like
>>to keep the starting bid at $1 to encourage people to bid but when it
>>doesnt encourage them to bid I say f*** you and pull it.
>
> And what was your eBay ID again?
4:07 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Isbell, W5JAI" <jim.isbell at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the
"Apple-1"
--
Jim Isbell
Some of you people crack me up with the ebay games you play.
I track quite a few auctions that I may or may not bid on, it is called
research. You have to technically know about the item you bid on so that if
the item is misrepresented or incomplete you know about it. It is also nice
to have some kind of background as to what that particular item goes for on
average. Sometimes I bid early and sometimes I wait for the last 5 minutes
depending on the popularity of the item and on what else I am bidding on.
There is no point putting an early minimum bid of lets say $1 on an item you
know will go for $200. To be honest early bidding is stupid just for the
fact that shills like jacking the price up to see what your maximum bid is
(and if don't get into a bidding war they just relist the same item again).
The people selling bulk items have a good strategy, they have reasonable buy
it now pricing and people snap those up as needed. Anyway for the sellers
who think they have something rare, there are very few items that will not
pop up again every 5-6 months (hell could be the same item for all I know).
I spend what an item is worth to ME, I could care less what the seller
thinks it is worth. If an item goes for the minimum bid (I have won quite a
few that way) I expect the seller to ship it.
As I said, loosing one bid out of millions is not my
worry. I might
just as likely lose a bid because someone was looking 10 minutes
BEFORE I got it listed. But I cant worry over that one either!!!!
Its just a matter of sliding the window one way or the other. I wont
spend my time trying to satisfy one bidder in millions.
As to how you would recognise my auction, a I said earlier, I tell you
up front that I will do that. Its no surprise. If you see my ad you
will be able to bid on it and you will see that I plan on changing it
if no one bids.
Also, if you dont know enough to know you are interested to the extent
of the value of a minimum bid of $1, then I surely dont think you
will change your mind 20 minutes before the auction ends. So I wont
miss you. Go ahead and bit $1 and if you end up with it you rot a
bargain...or at least if you dont want the item you can send me the $1
and I wont ship it to save you the shipping cost.
In a real auction you would have to register, give a credit card
number or deposit check and get a number before you were allowed to
place the first bid!!! And if you were running in from the parking
lot they would not hold things while you put up the deposit or credit
card.
Please tell me how sniping helps the seller?????
On 7/4/05, Doc Shipley <doc at mdrconsult.com> wrote:
> Jim Isbell, W5JAI wrote:
>
> > Why?
>
> I typically have 15-20 watched items on my list. I *might* buy 2
> items a month, so you can see that I don't bid on everything that I
> track. I very often have 2 or 3 items that end within a few hours, and
> either can use or can afford only one of them. Duplicate items, short
> toy budget, whatever. In those cases, I *can't* enter a bid till I know
> I want that particular item, and that's often in the last 20 minutes of
> the auction.
>
> I asked about your ID primarily because in the above scenario, your
> items wouldn't be worth watching. Partly out of pure curiosity.
>
> Sniping *can* benefit the buyer, price-wise. However, your
> assumption that late bids are always about the money just doesn't hold
> water.
>
>
> Doc
>
> > On 7/4/05, Doc Shipley <doc at mdrconsult.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Jim Isbell, W5JAI wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>The starting price does not affect the cost of the auction to the
> >>>seller, its the selling price that determines the cost. So, its not
a
>>matter of saving money, its a matter of scaring
off bidders. I like
>>to keep the starting bid at $1 to encourage people to bid but when it
>>doesnt encourage them to bid I say f*** you and pull it.
>
> And what was your eBay ID again?
4:39 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
Sometimes it really cracks me up that people dont read what is
written...I assume that is the case since I give them the benefit of
the doubt and assume they are intelegent and can understand it if they
had read it.
On 7/4/05, Teo Zenios <teoz at neo.rr.com> wrote:
If an item goes for the minimum bid (I have won quite
a
few that way) I expect the seller to ship it.
You completely missed the point!! I said, that you could bid the
nimimum bid of $1 (to insure that the item would not be withdrawn) and
if you got it it was a bargain. BUT...if you got a 3 ton albatros and
decided it wasnt a bargain becaue of the shipping cost, then you could
send the seller a $1 bill and say, "Dont ship it" and you are only out
a buck.
If you dont think you want it worth a buck, please dont bug me with
your bids or complaints when I withdraw the item. I have never listed
anything worth less than a buck...and never will.
--
Jim Isbell
"If you are not living on the edge, well then,
you are just taking up too much space."
W5JAI
1967 UltraVan #257
1936 SS-100 (replica)
1970 E-Type
1982 XJ6
1985 XJS
1988 XJ40
4:41 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
--- Teo Zenios <teoz at neo.rr.com> wrote:
I spend what an item is worth to ME, I could care
less what the seller
thinks it is worth. If an item goes for the minimum
bid (I have won quite a
few that way) I expect the seller to ship it.
Agreed.
To avoid disappointment I have two basic rules for
ebay purchases:
i) I bid what I am willing to pay. If the bidding
exceeds that value, then I walk away. I gave up
sniping a long time ago. Complete waste of rations and
frequently disappoints.
ii) I never bid on anything that has 'Rare', 'Ultra
rare', 'GOLD' or exclamation marks in the title. Who
gives a monkey's if something has gold in it ? I'm
going to plug the thing in and run it, not wear it
round my neck.
Anything else falls under the general rule of caveat
emptor. I have an obligation as a buyer to adequately
research anything I bid on before I start the process.
Dave
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
7:19 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
David Comley wrote:
ii) I never bid on anything that has 'Rare',
'Ultra
rare', 'GOLD' or exclamation marks in the title. Who
gives a monkey's if something has gold in it ? I'm
going to plug the thing in and run it, not wear it
round my neck.
And gold is cheap compared to the price they sell
stuff on ebay.
7:44 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
And gold is cheap compared to the price they sell
stuff on ebay.
http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/museum-wow.php - this page has
been in existence ever since I wrote it :) 2000 or 2001 or thereabouts.
It's as true now as it was then, though it's a bit UK-centric.
--
adrian/witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection?
5 Jul
5 Jul
9:02 a.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints:
It also occurs to me that if someone is willing to engage in this
hobby - and especially if it's something closer to a career - that
spending a little money here and there to get what you desire
shouldn't be that much of a problem, especially dealing with a
place as risky as eBay. You can do a lot with very little cash.
Think something's valuable to you? Think your top bid is $100?
Then risk a little more - take possession of it, scan the manuals
or examine the insides, then put it back on eBay. You're out the
cost of shipping plus auctioning it again. So what?
Maybe you could even send a note to the seller, asking him to send
a note to the next two lower bidders, offering the item to them
outside of eBay after you're done.
Frugality is great, but if you don't have the spare cash to spend,
don't spend your last bit on computer junk.
- John
4 Jul
4 Jul
8:48 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
And gold is cheap compared to the price they sell
stuff on ebay.
Actually not...I have been tracking how scrap does on Ebay, and it does
not do well. Perhaps the market needs to evolve a bit more.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
5 Jul
5 Jul
11:37 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 13:43:54 -0500
"Jim Isbell, W5JAI" <jim.isbell at gmail.com> wrote:
As I said, loosing one bid out of millions is not my
worry. I might
just as likely lose a bid because someone was looking 10 minutes
BEFORE I got it listed. But I cant worry over that one either!!!!
Its just a matter of sliding the window one way or the other. I wont
spend my time trying to satisfy one bidder in millions.
As to how you would recognise my auction, a I said earlier, I tell you
up front that I will do that. Its no surprise. If you see my ad you
will be able to bid on it and you will see that I plan on changing it
if no one bids.
Also, if you dont know enough to know you are interested to the extent
of the value of a minimum bid of $1, then I surely dont think you
will change your mind 20 minutes before the auction ends. So I wont
miss you. Go ahead and bit $1 and if you end up with it you rot a
bargain...or at least if you dont want the item you can send me the $1
and I wont ship it to save you the shipping cost.
In a real auction you would have to register, give a credit card
number or deposit check and get a number before you were allowed to
place the first bid!!!
*BZZZT!!!
I go to a LOT of real auctions. Usually I find I am able to register,
bid on items, and carry them to my car and load them without paying or
leaving anything but an address up front. I pay at the end, usually
after everything is loaded in the car.
This is at 'for real' auctions, often enough out in the country, which I
assume is what you're talking about.
8 Jul
8 Jul
2:19 a.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
Doc Shipley wrote:
Sniping *can* benefit the buyer, price-wise.
However, your assumption
that late bids are always about the money just doesn't hold water.
Agreed. I snipe auctions because I specifically don't want other people to
monitor my ID and see what I'm bidding on. It has nothing to do with being a
cheapskate; I always think about a price for a minute, then set up the snipe
with my maximum bid (MAXIMUM, not $1 or something), then walk away.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
4 Jul
4 Jul
2:20 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the"Apple-1"
The starting price does not affect the cost of the
auction
to the seller, its the selling price that determines the cost.
On ebay.co.uk the listing fee *does* depend on the starting price.
IIRC ?0.99 and below is ?0.15, ?1-?4.99 is ?0.20 etc.
If you have never sold items you may not know that the
seller
can see how many people are "watching" the item.
Although not who is watching ....
I add anything interesting that I come across to my watch list.
It might be because I wish to bid, it might be because I'm
interested in seeing what it goes for, it might be because
I need this particular type of widget and I find the watch
list a convenient way to keep track of multiple items before
deciding which one to bid on (and which one to bid on next
if I lose ...).
If I'm really going to bid, I'll probably line something
up in a bidding tool and just "let it ride" without ever
bothering to "watch" the item.
Antonio
6 Jul
6 Jul
6:06 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
On Mon, 4 Jul 2005, Jim Isbell, W5JAI wrote:
It costs me the 35 cent listing fee but thats better
than spending 30
minutes packing something for some A**H*** that bid $1 with 10 seconds
to go.
So why not start your auction at a price which you would be happy to get
for that item?
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
8 Jul
8 Jul
2:18 a.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
Jim Isbell, W5JAI wrote:
The starting price does not affect the cost of the
auction to the
seller, its the selling price that determines the cost. So, its not a
matter of saving money, its a matter of scaring off bidders.
I thought the whole point of listing something on ebay was to **SELL** it. But
you actively take measures to scare bidders away? Why, that's pure genius! I
must try this "piss off any potential customers" technique you speak of. I am
sure to triple my income!
(ducking)
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
25 Jul
25 Jul
5:20 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
At 12:31 PM 7/4/05 -0400, you wrote:
if you would set the starting price to what you wanted
instead of trying to
save money on listing fees, then you would not have to play games.
What does the starting price have to do with people bidding at the last
minute?? I don't see any connection.
I always start my auctions cheap. First I don't see any reason to enrich
E-bay any more than necessary but also I frequently don't know the value of
an item and it's simple to start it cheap and let the market place set the
price. I've used E-bay for almost ten years and I've watched the prices of
certain items closely and I've frequently found tht people will not bid on
items that start high even though the same item will bring more than the
same high starting price when started at a lower price and allowed to
escalate naturally.
You have
decided to make life more difficult for you on eBay. It
is not the late
bidders or eBay that has the problem.
It IS the late bidding that was the problem in this case!!!! He waited
too long and forgot to bid! Explain how the starting price had any bearing
on that if you can.
I have gone on eBay, done a new type of search, found and then bid on items
that were down to their last minutes. You technique keeps people from
finding the item at the last minute.
You said "done a new type of search,". If you had done the same search
earlier you would have found exactly the same items!
Joe
At 12:04 PM 07/04/2005, you wrote:
One problem.....I have gotten so irritated by last
minute bids....
when after all I paid for 7 days of bids....that I now pull any item
that does NOT have a bid at 6 Hours before the end (that misses you).
I will also sometimes up the ante rather than pull the item, sometimes
by 5X. This is to discourage last minute bidders. This really works
if you put the bidders on notice in your description that you plan on
doing this. They, then, will decide wheather to "S*** or get off the
pot" as we used to say at the poker table in the old days.
6:24 p.m.
New subject: IGNORE!!! Re: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
Where did this come from?? It must have been sitting in the queue for a
couple of weeks. IGNORE IT! We don't need to rehash this old argument.
Joe
At 05:20 PM 7/25/05 -0400, you wrote:
At 12:31 PM 7/4/05 -0400, you wrote:
if you would set the starting price to what you
wanted instead of trying to
save money on listing fees, then you would not have to play games.
What does the starting price have to do with people bidding at the last
minute?? I don't see any connection.
I always start my auctions cheap. First I don't see any reason to enrich
E-bay any more than necessary but also I frequently don't know the value of
an item and it's simple to start it cheap and let the market place set the
price. I've used E-bay for almost ten years and I've watched the prices of
certain items closely and I've frequently found tht people will not bid on
items that start high even though the same item will bring more than the
same high starting price when started at a lower price and allowed to
escalate naturally.
You have
decided to make life more difficult for you on
eBay. It is not the late
bidders or eBay that has the problem.
It IS the late bidding that was the problem in this case!!!! He waited
too long and forgot to bid! Explain how the starting price had any bearing
on that if you can.
I have gone on eBay, done a new type of search, found and then bid on items
that were down to their last minutes. You technique keeps people from
finding the item at the last minute.
You said "done a new type of search,". If you had done the same search
earlier you would have found exactly the same items!
Joe
At 12:04 PM 07/04/2005, you wrote:
One problem.....I have gotten so irritated by last
minute bids....
when after all I paid for 7 days of bids....that I now pull any item
that does NOT have a bid at 6 Hours before the end (that misses you).
I will also sometimes up the ante rather than pull the item, sometimes
by 5X. This is to discourage last minute bidders. This really works
if you put the bidders on notice in your description that you plan on
doing this. They, then, will decide wheather to "S*** or get off the
pot" as we used to say at the poker table in the old days.
4 Jul
4 Jul
12:48 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the"Apple-1"
At 04:50 PM 7/4/05 +0100, Phil wrote:
In message <3.0.6.32.20050704101150.0095d4e0 at
pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
"Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
The problem is that it's too easy to forget to bid!
What's the point in waiting till four hours (or four days, or four
minutes or four seconds) before the end? If its not over your max then bid
ANYTIME. If you bid early, *friends* will see your bid and not bid against
you AND you don't have to worry about forgetting to bid.
Joe
What is it with all you people that want to
wait till the last second to
bid and then you whine when don't win.
I don't wait until the last second. I place a bid about four hours before the
auction ends. If it's over my max, I don't bother bidding at all.
What's the problem with that?! 
1:26 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the"Apple-1"
On Mon, 2005-07-04 at 12:48 -0400, Joe R. wrote:
What's the point in waiting till four hours (or
four days, or four
minutes or four seconds) before the end? If its not over your max then bid
ANYTIME. If you bid early, *friends* will see your bid and not bid against
you AND you don't have to worry about forgetting to bid.
Joe
BOBW: make min bid early marking auction to your friends, thereby
prevent pulling item, changing the ad, changing the price by seller.
Then snipe bid it last 10 seconds.
-- John.
1:32 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the"Apple-1"
On 7/4/05, John R. Hogerhuis <jhoger at pobox.com> wrote:
BOBW: make min bid early marking auction to your
friends, thereby
prevent pulling item, changing the ad, changing the price by seller.
Then snipe bid it last 10 seconds.
-- John.
Yep, thats the way to do it. That would foil me completely, thats the
way I do it. But as far as I am concerned, as a seller, if I get a
bid early I dont cvare if it is small, it still puts everyone else on
notice that someone else wants it and the bidding then will be "fair
and ballanced."
--
Jim Isbell
"If you are not living on the edge, well then,
you are just taking up too much space."
W5JAI
1967 UltraVan #257
1936 SS-100 (replica)
1970 E-Type
1982 XJ6
1985 XJS
1988 XJ40
2:04 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the"Apple-1"
What's the point in waiting till four hours (or
four days, or four
minutes or four seconds) before the end? If its not over your max then bid
ANYTIME. If you bid early, *friends* will see your bid and not bid against
you AND you don't have to worry about forgetting to bid.
Don't worry about friends, worry about the competition.
Yes, I check the bids of the competition, to see what they found and I
missed. I think I have some pretty good, well refined searches on Ebay,
but I am always spotting things the searches missed that the competition
did not.
By sniping, I can somewhat reduce my chances of having the competition do
the same to me. I have snuck thru a few awesome deals for things on Ebay,
perhaps due to not being spotted by others.
Yes, competition - the collecting world has always had it. Always
will. Live with it, it is part of the game.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
11:53 a.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints
On Monday 04 July 2005 07:11, Joe R. wrote:
What is it with all you people that want to wait
till the last second to
bid and then you whine when don't win. Late messages aren't necessarily
E-bays fault. The InterNET is a network of servers, relays, etc and
messages can be delayed for many reasons. That's one of the good things
about E-bay's system, you don't have to be there or even on-line when the
auction nears it's end, the system will do the bidding for you. I NEVER get
outbid on things that I really want. I'm sure Al and others can tell you
the same thing. You lost because you wanted to play stupid games with
E-bay's system!
I don't understand why some of ypeople on this list are always
complaining about E-bay. Where else do you think you're going to find a
complete Microprofessor MPF-1 for ?16 and never leave your desk? If you
want bargains you have to go hunt for them or take the occasional one, like
this one, that show up on E-bay. If you don't like E-bay's high prices
then get off the computer and go start looking in the surplus stores, scrap
yards, flea markets, etc etc etc. There are still PLENTY of bargains to be
had. I have a LOT of great computers (3x SB-180s, 2x Rubicons, 2x Altairs,
10x Intels, 13x AIM-65s, HP-9100, 4x HP-35 Red Dots, 5x HP-1000s, PDP-8,
etc etc etc etc) and NONE of them came from E-bay. I got ALL of them the
hard way, by LOOKING!
my 2 cents worth,
Joe
I'm with Joe on this. I'm a huge fan of eBay - it has enabled me to contact
and purchase/sell items all over the world. It is a fair system - and
certainly equal in "fairness" to any sealed bid auctions that I also
participate in.
It's also a mystery to me why anyone complains about not getting an Email from
eBay. I never count on Emails for anything that is time sensitive. We are
dealing with a huge network that does not have any SLA (Service Level
Agreement) for response time or latency guarantees.
There are lots of ways to "play" eBay as a buyer - and if you really want
something you merely bid the maximum amount you're willing to pay for an item
- and the only way anyone will beat you is by bidding more - whether by
"standard" bidding or sniping.
I also practice sniping in addition to "regular" bidding - because it feels
more to me like a sealed bid auction - and I've worked sealed bid auctions
for more years than eBay has been around!
Lyle
--
Lyle Bickley
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
Mountain View, CA
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
1:13 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints
In message <200507040853.17442.lbickley at bickleywest.com>
Lyle Bickley <lbickley at bickleywest.com> wrote:
- and the only way anyone will beat you is by bidding
more - whether by
"standard" bidding or sniping.
What really - and I mean REALLY - annoys me are the prats that snipe items
for some stupid price, then never pay. I've had to deal with one of them
before. NPB'd him and got a wonderful email back - "You f*ing scammed me, i
paid, i paid, scammer, f*er, your mother was a hamster and your father
smelled of elderberries", et cetera. Last I heard he was looking for a new
ISP.
Later.
--
Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
philpem at philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
... Give your child mental blocks for Christmas.
2:04 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints
At 10:53 AM 7/4/2005, Lyle Bickley wrote:
I also practice sniping in addition to
"regular" bidding - because it feels
more to me like a sealed bid auction - and I've worked sealed bid auctions
for more years than eBay has been around!
I'd appreciate some pointers on auction technique for sealed bids.
eBay theory has been worked to death here.
- John
6:16 p.m.
New subject: *Stop* E-bay complaints: was ... blaugh
I see this thread,
I see it has many answers, perhaps this one, but,
at this point I am surprised that there was such a
response.
Please don't discuss eBay problems on this list.
The archive space for this topic has long ago
been exceeded.
Thank You.
John A.
8 Jul
8 Jul
2:14 a.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
Joe R. wrote:
Don't take this personally BUT: Why
didn't you bid your max bid the
first time??????? If you had you would have won the item.
I take this one step further and use a service (esnipe) to snipe all of my
auctions. That way, I bid one price and walk away -- AND, because I bid 10
seconds before the end of the auction, nobody can see what I'm bidding on until
it's too late.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
12:40 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, Jim Leonard wrote:
Joe R. wrote:
StealthBid usually hits with 3-4 seconds to go ;)
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
Don't take this personally BUT: Why
didn't you bid your max bid the
first time??????? If you had you would have won the item.
I take this one step further and use a service (esnipe) to snipe all of my
auctions. That way, I bid one price and walk away -- AND, because I bid 10
seconds before the end of the auction, nobody can see what I'm bidding on until
it's too late. 
1:09 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
On 7/8/05 2:14 AM, "Jim Leonard" <trixter at oldskool.org> wrote:.
I take this one step further and use a service (esnipe) to snipe all of my
auctions. That way, I bid one price and walk away -- AND, because I bid 10
seconds before the end of the auction, nobody can see what I'm bidding on
until
it's too late.
I don't rely on snipe services - unless they jack you to your max
*instantly* instead of in incriments, nailing your highest at the last
minute and having the snipe program check and raise and check and raise
takes time, and it most likely won't hit your max during that last single
minute, heh
1:31 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, Gary Sparkes wrote:
I don't rely on snipe services - unless they jack
you to your max
*instantly* instead of in incriments, nailing your highest at the last
minute and having the snipe program check and raise and check and raise
takes time, and it most likely won't hit your max during that last single
minute, heh
If a sniper service works like that then it's foolish and retarded. The
main reason I use a sniping service is to manage my bids for me. First of
all, for all the obvious reasons, bidding anytime before the imminent end
of an eBay auction is pointless. Second, I submit what I'm willing to
pay, and the sniper gets my bid in at the last possible reasonable second.
If I win, great. If I win for less than what I was willing to pay, even
better. If I don't, terrific! I saved my money for a rainy day.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
1:44 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
Do these services have any kind of monetary buffer built-in? For example,
let's say you are willing to pay $100 for something. Your sniping service
enters that amount at the last possible second, and you lose to someone
whose bid was $101. You'd feel pretty dumb about losing the item because of
one dollar. How do you know that winner's bid wasn't $101 maximum? I know
that's an easy trap because, in reality, you can keep going back and forth
in small increments, and the next thing you know, you've bid $120, which is
really more than you allotted for the item. Still, though, it's a
legitimate problem with sniping services as I understand them -- you have no
chance at all to say "okay, I'll bid just a little bit more."
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 1:32 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the
"Apple-1"
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, Gary Sparkes wrote:
I don't rely on snipe services - unless they jack
you to your max
*instantly* instead of in incriments, nailing your highest at the last
minute and having the snipe program check and raise and check and
raise takes time, and it most likely won't hit your max during that
last single minute, heh
If a sniper service works like that then it's foolish and retarded. The
main reason I use a sniping service is to manage my bids for me. First of
all, for all the obvious reasons, bidding anytime before the imminent end of
an eBay auction is pointless. Second, I submit what I'm willing to pay, and
the sniper gets my bid in at the last possible reasonable second.
If I win, great. If I win for less than what I was willing to pay, even
better. If I don't, terrific! I saved my money for a rainy day.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
Festival
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers
]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org
]
1:54 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, 'Computer Collector Newsletter' wrote:
Do these services have any kind of monetary buffer
built-in? For example,
let's say you are willing to pay $100 for something. Your sniping service
enters that amount at the last possible second, and you lose to someone
whose bid was $101. You'd feel pretty dumb about losing the item because of
one dollar.
Why should I feel dumb? I already thought about what I was willing to pay
at a maximum, so if someone gets it for $1 more than me then more power to
them. And in 99 times out of 100, if someone does get it for $1 more than
you, they probably put in a bid that is several dollars more than what
your maximum was. So even if you did bid $2 more, their max will still be
larger than yours. And this also negates the point of the sniping service
and starts to get into the silly psychological games that drive up prices
well beyond what's reasonable and sane.
How do you know that winner's bid wasn't $101 maximum? I know
that's an easy trap because, in reality, you can
keep going back and forth
in small increments, and the next thing you know, you've bid $120, which is
really more than you allotted for the item. Still, though, it's a
legitimate problem with sniping services as I understand them -- you have no
chance at all to say "okay, I'll bid just a little bit more."
Again, you don't want to bid "just a little more". You set your maximum
and you are content whatever the outcome. If not, well, you have
problems.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
4:11 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf at siconic.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 1:54 PM
Subject: RE: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the
"Apple-1"
Again, you don't want to bid "just a little
more". You set your maximum
and you are content whatever the outcome. If not, well, you have
problems.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
Festival
I tend to make my highest bid something like $10.04 for example so somebody
would have to hit the next did increment $.50 or whatever to outbid me. If I
bid $10 and somebody won it for $10.01 I would feel silly, let them pay
$10.50. Generally if I get outbid its by a large amount anyway, since I am
cheep and look for good deals and not for average prices on ebay.
3:39 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the"Apple-1"
Do these services have any kind of monetary buffer
built-in? For example, let's say you are willing
to pay $100 for something. Your sniping service enters
that amount at the last possible second, and you lose
to someone whose bid was $101.
I have a feeling I need to point you at my auctions :-)
If you were only willing to bid $100, why are you now
willing to bid $102? I can understand that in a live
auction room you can get carried away, but with an
online auction you usually have plenty of time to
see how often the "L@@K RARE" stuff crops up and
what it usually sells for (allowing for shipping).
Then you decide where in the range you want to be
and how badly you want it and come up with a
number. If you want to you can then ask yourself
"but what if he bids $1 more" and increase your
bid until you come round :-) Then feed that into
the snipe tool. If there was noone willing to
go over $50, you get it for $51 and all you lost
was some time talking to yourself. If there
was someone willing to chat to themselves a
little longer than you were, you move on to
any of the other five "L@@K RARE" items
available in the next 24 hours.
Antonio
2:13 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
First of all, for all the obvious reasons, bidding
anytime before the
imminent end of an eBay auction is pointless.
Hm. The reasons you refer to certainly aren't obvious to me.
Is that just an artifact of my inexperience with ebay, or am I missing
something more obvious?
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
2:30 p.m.
New subject: FREE MACINTOSH PLUS.
I have the following Hardware that would love to find itself a good home.
Hardware:
Machintosh Macintosh Plus
Macintosh Keyboard
Macintosh Mouse
serial number F847HHMM0001A (have no idea what this means)
...and...
CMS External Hard Disk Drive F00590 3D30U Serial number 1034213
Send me an address, and I'll let you know cost of mailing via UPS or USPS
or something.
15 Jul
15 Jul
9:14 a.m.
New subject: FREE MACINTOSH PLUS. / Pallettes / etc.
Since we're talking about macs right now (VCM included)
I'll just mention that I have about 4 or 5 machines in the
NY/NJ/CT area that I could give away, many types.
My belief is that everybody wanting used Macs has them by now.
if not, pls contact and I'll make up a list.
John A.
8 Jul
8 Jul
11:36 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
Ah, all the sniping services I've seen just jack the bid up by a set
incriment
On 7/8/05 1:31 PM, "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf at siconic.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, Gary Sparkes wrote:
I don't rely on snipe services - unless they
jack you to your max
*instantly* instead of in incriments, nailing your highest at the last
minute and having the snipe program check and raise and check and raise
takes time, and it most likely won't hit your max during that last single
minute, heh
If a sniper service works like that then it's foolish and retarded. The
main reason I use a sniping service is to manage my bids for me. First of
all, for all the obvious reasons, bidding anytime before the imminent end
of an eBay auction is pointless. Second, I submit what I'm willing to
pay, and the sniper gets my bid in at the last possible reasonable second.
If I win, great. If I win for less than what I was willing to pay, even
better. If I don't, terrific! I saved my money for a rainy day. 
11:57 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
Sniping is good. I bid on an item *without* sniping and I bid my max
bid of $20. At the last minute, a guy bid $5, then $8, then $16. I
ended up with paying $16.5. If I sniped it, I would have paid $5.5.
On 7/8/05, Gary Sparkes <mokuba at gmail.com> wrote:
Ah, all the sniping services I've seen just jack
the bid up by a set
incriment
On 7/8/05 1:31 PM, "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf at siconic.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, Gary Sparkes wrote:
I don't rely on snipe services - unless they
jack you to your max
*instantly* instead of in incriments, nailing your highest at the last
minute and having the snipe program check and raise and check and raise
takes time, and it most likely won't hit your max during that last single
minute, heh
If a sniper service works like that then it's foolish and retarded. The
main reason I use a sniping service is to manage my bids for me. First of
all, for all the obvious reasons, bidding anytime before the imminent end
of an eBay auction is pointless. Second, I submit what I'm willing to
pay, and the sniper gets my bid in at the last possible reasonable second.
If I win, great. If I win for less than what I was willing to pay, even
better. If I don't, terrific! I saved my money for a rainy day.
9 Jul
9 Jul
1:18 a.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, Gary Sparkes wrote:
Ah, all the sniping services I've seen just jack
the bid up by a set
incriment
If they do then they are foolish and retarded. The whole point of a
"sniping" "service" is to actually submit a "snipe" for you,
not play high
bid tag with some other sniping service's dumb bot.
With what I use--StealthBid--you tell it what item you want to bid on and
how much you're willing to pay. At the last second (almost literally) it
submits your bid. If you win, great! If you win for a price lower than
your high offer, even better. If not, you save your pennies for the
better one coming up tomorrow.
A sniping service as you describe completely defeats the purpose and is
not really "sniping" (in the eBay sense*) at all. It opens you up to
paying MORE than you would with a true snipe.
* what a stupid euphemism to use for this...who's the idiot that came up
with that?
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
8 Jul
8 Jul
3:34 p.m.
New subject: E-bay complaints: was Re: "Response" from seller with the "Apple-1"
I don't rely on snipe services - unless they jack
you to your max *instantly* instead of in incriments,
nailing your highest at the last minute and having
the snipe program check and raise and check and raise
takes time, and it most likely won't hit your max
during that last single minute, heh
By definition sniping is bidding at the very last
minute - i.e. so close to the end of the auction
that noone else gets to reply after seeing your
bid. So you must bid your maximum as, almost by
definition, you'll not get another chance.
The advantages of sniping are its "fire and forget"
nature (which saves time, no need to follow the auction)
and the lack of emotion (you won't be tempted to try
bidding a few extra pennies "just in case he's
only just beaten my bid"). A third advantage is
that you won't have your bid nibbled up towards
your max by newbies who like to bid in minimum
increments.
If you like the emotional side of things, then
you need to place your own bids. Personally
I almost always use a sniping program, unless
I see something crop up that I want when I'm
away from my machine. In that case, I bid
near the end and take my chances.
Antonio
4 Jul
4 Jul
7:56 p.m.
Bleagh. I wanted that MPF, too - it only went for
=A316 - my max was way =
higher
than that :( :( :(
YEs, but you don't know how high the winning bidder was prepared to go
either. He might have gone way higher than you were prepared to pay.
I remember once at a physical auction I picked up some bit of hardware
for the opening bid of \pounds 1.00. Mentioning this to a friend who came
in later, he said that he would have outbid me on that. I then pointed
out that I would have gone to something like \pounds 100 if necessary....
-tony
5 Jul
5 Jul
6:54 p.m.
In message <m1DpanR-000IyPC at p850ug1>
ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
YEs, but you don't know how high the winning
bidder was prepared to go
either. He might have gone way higher than you were prepared to pay.
Point taken.
I have had fairly good luck in physical auctions - snagged a near-complete#
Jupiter Ace for ?2. Then I went and knocked the PSU cable and blew up nearly
every chip on the mainboard (Lesson #1: Buy a PSU with interchangeable
connectors, instead of those "spiderplug" things)...
Later.
--
Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
philpem at philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
"I'll take your 20kV and raise you 200kV. Go on, step off that plate. I dare
you."
6933
days inactive
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60 comments
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participants (26)
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a.carlini＠ntlworld.com -
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chenmel＠earthlink.net -
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lbickley＠bickleywest.com -
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