17 Dec
2006
17 Dec
'06
7:40 a.m.
I wish to apologize to the list for making potentially rancorous OT
references to religion and politics. They were over-general to begin
with, as I had in mind certain local land barons, robber barons, and
pave-the-planet suburban sprawl "developers" and franchise operators who
are anticipating their moment in the sun here locally, cashing in on a
Monopoly (and monopoly) end-game to the general detriment, to real
economic development in particular. Notwithstanding this, and
notwithstanding my opinion that the Religious Right is neither, this
ain't the place for it.
As for Mr. Florida, I wonder if he's ever read "The Yankee vs. Cowboy
War"? "W" as Hegelian synthesis? Off-list if you want to pursue this,
though.
Ob-cc: Wanted, recommendations on affordable, decent-quality steel
storage buildings, in the 2000-10000 sq. ft. range. Plus shelving,
workbench systems, etc. First responder please change subject heading.
Thanks.
jbdigriz
17 Dec
17 Dec
2:01 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
In article <20061217074049.3c605278 at bluto.i16.net>,
"James B. DiGriz" <jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org> writes:
Ob-cc: Wanted, recommendations on affordable,
decent-quality steel
storage buildings, in the 2000-10000 sq. ft. range. Plus shelving,
workbench systems, etc. First responder please change subject heading.
What about a Quonset Hut? I see them for sale at the State Fair here
in Utah and they seem pretty cheap, relatively speaking.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
19 Dec
19 Dec
2:54 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 12:01:51 -0700
Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
In article <20061217074049.3c605278 at bluto.i16.net>,
"James B. DiGriz" <jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org> writes:
That could work, and not too hard to put in an upper deck. Not the most
efficient use of covered space, though.
There's one a few hundred yards from where I sit in the house some
friends are moving into. (Just put a second coat on their bedroom
floor.) They ordered it some years ago but the deal fell through and a
neighbor bought it. Looks nice with the front all bricked in but it's
full of his cars, not my computers. Must be nice, is all I can say. My
cars are in somebodies impound/salvage yard. First they steal them from
you, then they want $1,000's to get them back. Again, must be nice. I
should go into politics and distributing contraband, too, I guess. :-)
I once worked for a warehouse distributor who had a 2-story steel
addition built on to their downtown Savannah warehouse. (You should
have heard the hue and cry from the Historic Review Board. Ironically
you can now find nothing but lawyer's offices, condos, trendy shops,
etc. in a part of town that was once filled with train depots, livery
stables, etc. and later auto repair shops, dealerships, upholstery
shops, body shops, machine shops, etc. for the better part of 150
years.) This was new construction, but he got a good deal on it, and I
remember we went to J-ville to load up a semi-trailer or two with used
shelving and racks from a warehouse that had closed. Oddly enough,
there was the shot-up wreck of a Curtiss P-40 sitting in there that
somebody was preparing to restore.
This was in '85 or so, when the girls in the office upstairs were using
a Tandy Mod 12 with dual 8" drives to do the payroll and accounts.
About a year before we got the Altos 3086 and us peon counter people
got terminals. :-) Oh, yeah, the root password was initially ""!.
Runtime Xenix system with no dev tools, but I got some useful shell
scripts written until the vendor gave the boss a good shot of paranoia.
Probably because I was the one who warned him about the dangers of an
un-passworded root account available on about 30 terminals all across
town. like they say, no good deed goes unpunished.
Thanks for the response,
jbdigriz
Ob-cc: Wanted, recommendations on affordable,
decent-quality steel
storage buildings, in the 2000-10000 sq. ft. range. Plus shelving,
workbench systems, etc. First responder please change subject
heading.
What about a Quonset Hut? I see them for sale at the State Fair here
in Utah and they seem pretty cheap, relatively speaking.
3:03 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
Also, Henk has some pictures on his PDP site of the building he
constructed on his property in Holland. However, I don't know if this
would be "cheap" to do here. Its more like a command bunker!
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
3:14 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
Also, Henk has some pictures on his PDP site of the
building he
constructed on his property in Holland. However, I don't know if this
would be "cheap" to do here. Its more like a command bunker!
Somehow I think that would cost a small fortune. I don't know how it works
out for something like that, but we are being told to estimate about $250 per
square foot for new contruction, if that is the route we go for a project
I'm involved with.
I'm not sure what size the original poster is looking for, but around here
it is possible to get some pretty nice looking prefab "sheds" varying in
size from a small garden shed, up to fairly decent size.
Or there is always the option of getting old Freight containers (the type
they use on cargo ships).
Zane
3:54 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006, Zane H. Healy wrote:
Or there is always the option of getting old Freight
containers (the type
they use on cargo ships).
I don't have much to add - but my father uses 40' shipping containers for
storage back in New Zealand (mostly for cars, but I think his set of RP04s
are stored in one at the moment). He paid about $3000NZ for each
container, which were both a little rusty but still completely waterproof.
If memory serves he flattened the land with a payloader to compact it,
laid a simple cinderblock foundation, and filled in the rest of the area
with gravel to provide water drainage and then just set the containers on
the cinderblocks to keep them a few inches above the ground.
He's quite pleased with them - but his property is fairly heavy with
trees, so it's not as obvious that he has a couple rows of rather ugly
rust red shipping containers from the road.
Anyways, for what it's worth.
4:49 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
Or there is always the option of getting old Freight
containers (the type
they use on cargo ships).
And get fried by the heat :)
Dunno why in USA building is so expensive, here everything for building
is so cheap :) The labour is expensive, but a shed is nothing hard to do
with help of a friend.
4:16 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
Has anybody looked into those custom made metal buildings that are popular
these days? A computer collector would need to get them insulated (if you
live in a cold part of the country) and heated/cooled plus have some power
brought it. I would think the floors would need to be concrete and sealed to
keep moisture out. Sounds kind of pricey for a hobby to me.
4:22 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
In article <006001c723b2$ea672e90$0b01a8c0 at game>,
"Teo Zenios" <teoz at neo.rr.com> writes:
Has anybody looked into those custom made metal
buildings that are popular
these days?
I'm not sure what you mean...
A computer collector would need to get them insulated
(if you
live in a cold part of the country) and heated/cooled plus have some power
brought it. I would think the floors would need to be concrete and sealed to
keep moisture out. Sounds kind of pricey for a hobby to me.
I think the way you keep down costs of this as a hobbyist is to do the
labor yourself.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
5:17 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
What kind of mortar would work best for making a small building,
using generic PCs as bricks?
6:01 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
In article <45886A48.1080302 at gmail.com>,
Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> writes:
Fred Cisin wrote:
How about you place plastic mice and keyboards in between after
softening 'em up with a blowtorch? :-)
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
What kind of mortar would work best for making a
small building,
using generic PCs as bricks?
Molten bronze maybe?
6:35 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
> > What kind of mortar would work best for
making a small building,
> > using generic PCs as bricks?
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006, Richard wrote:
How about you place plastic mice and keyboards in
between after
softening 'em up with a blowtorch? :-)
I think that the keyboard housings would be better as roofing shingles for
it.
Monitors would also make a good building block.
I think that Chuck has the right idea with using roller goo as mortar.
6:42 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
In article <20061219153330.B78437 at shell.lmi.net>,
Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> writes:
Sounds like a nice art project for Burning Man, although it wouldn't
be a good idea to set this building on fire, the fumes would probably
kill you before smoke inhalation and flames had even a chance of
making you woozy.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
> > What
kind of mortar would work best for making a small building,
> > using generic PCs as bricks?
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006, Richard wrote:
How about you place plastic mice and keyboards in
between after
softening 'em up with a blowtorch? :-)
I think that the keyboard housings would be better as roofing shingles for
it.
Monitors would also make a good building block.
I think that Chuck has the right idea with using roller goo as mortar. 
20 Dec
20 Dec
4 a.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
On Tue, 2006-12-19 at 14:17 -0800, Fred Cisin wrote:
What kind of mortar would work best for making a small
building,
using generic PCs as bricks?
The M252 81 millimeter would be my choice, due to its high angle
and... oh, wait, you said "MAKING a small building." Never mind.
Peace,
Warren E. Wolfe
wizard at voyager.net
19 Dec
19 Dec
4:18 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
On 19 Dec 2006 at 18:49, Alexandre Souza wrote:
Dunno why in USA building is so expensive, here
everything for building
is so cheap :) The labour is expensive, but a shed is nothing hard to do
with help of a friend.
Permits, inspections, codes all make for putting up anything more
than a meter tall very expensive. Out here in Oregon, the cheapest
structure is a "pole barn"; essentially large creosote-soaked poles
sunk into the ground, then usually sheathed and roofed in steel.
Since it's viewed as an agricultural building, a basic form ifiled
with the county is the only requirement. If one lives in a
development, CCR's (Codes, covenants and restrictions) may apply to
anything more than the color of your doormat.
But the subject of shipping containers brought up thoughts of this:
http://www.sun.com/emrkt/blackbox/scenarios.jsp
Cheers,
Chuck
4:38 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 19 Dec 2006 at 18:49, Alexandre Souza wrote:
I expect that's the case in most countries. Doubtless many of us are
sufficiently engineering-minded that we could put up something ourselves (or
at the very least assemble something from a kit), but it's all the rules and
regulations which are the killer (and it least in the UK, can take months too).
Dunno why in USA building is so expensive,
here everything for building
is so cheap :) The labour is expensive, but a shed is nothing hard to do
with help of a friend.
Permits, inspections, codes all make for putting up anything more
than a meter tall very expensive. Out here in Oregon, the cheapest
structure is a "pole barn"; essentially large creosote-soaked poles
sunk into the ground, then usually sheathed and roofed in steel.
Since it's viewed as an agricultural building
In the UK I think you can often get away with building things out of wood
rather than brick / steel as it's then viewed as a temporary structure and so
the necessary planning permission's a lot easier. Obviously that's not likely
to work in the US as major structures are often made of wood anyway :-)
cheers
Jules
7:59 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 12:14:34 -0800 (PST)
"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote:
Or there is always the option of getting old Freight
containers (the
type they use on cargo ships).
Zane
They're cheap enough (as low as $200 or so), and the port is only 20
miles away. FOB only, though. You need to have a flatbed or hire one,
which adds to the expense. There is one unit right next door that might
conceivably become available. There is another problem, though, as
containers tend to receive undue attention from the vigilant eye of
code enforcement here, unlike some other enlightened areas of the
country, particularly if you attempt to build any kind of actual
structure out of them. In my case I would have to. Freight containers
are not really big enough for decent shop facilities.
jbdigriz
20 Dec
20 Dec
9:17 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
Zane H. Healy wrote:
Zane, if I were you I'd go with a pole barn. That's what I did for my
shop. It's 60x36 with a 14 (well SUPPOSED to be) foot clear interior.
You can read about the building adventure at http://www.f15sim.com. I
just posted a big update. DO NOT hire a builder without getting face to
face references from former customers. That bit me hard.
g.
Also, Henk has
some pictures on his PDP site of the building he
constructed on his property in Holland. However, I don't know if this
would be "cheap" to do here. Its more like a command bunker!
Somehow I think that would cost a small fortune. I don't know how it works
out for something like that, but we are being told to estimate about $250 per
square foot for new contruction, if that is the route we go for a project
I'm involved with. 
10:06 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
jim stephens wrote:
Gene Buckle wrote:
Thanks Frank, I'm glad you enjoyed it. It's certainly a labor of love.
Nearly on-topic too. The TEWS computer (which I don't have) is based
on a 6800B. :)
g.
g.
Gene,
you have a fantastic web site, I hope all go there and read about your move
Thanks for posting it here. 
19 Dec
19 Dec
3:31 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
Richard wrote:
Also, Henk has some pictures on his PDP site of the
building he
constructed on his property in Holland. However, I don't know if this
would be "cheap" to do here. Its more like a command bunker!
I am very sure that it was not cheap in Holland either !
Talk about dedication ...
Jos
5:31 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
I built a metal building for my airplane. It took about two weeks, but I did it alone.
Total cost was $3300. It's 36' wide by 32' long. You can bargain with the
building companies and they have sales all the time. It was like dealing with a used car
salesman. Photos of the construction are here:
http://www.dvq.com/bdoon/hangar/
Bob
8:28 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 14:31:03 -0800 (PST)
Bob Rosenbloom <bobalan at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I built a metal building for my airplane. It took
about two weeks,
but I did it alone. Total cost was $3300. It's 36' wide by 32' long.
You can bargain with the building companies and they have sales all
the time. It was like dealing with a used car salesman. Photos of the
construction are here:
http://www.dvq.com/bdoon/hangar/
Bob
Not bad. A friend got a building about twice that length,
half-enclosed, plus an additional carport, for about $8000,including
slabs, but that was really low-ball. Buddy of his or something.
Thanks to all who've responded; lots of good ideas. A few very good
ones, indeed.
jbdigriz
27 Dec
27 Dec
3:12 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
On 12/18/06, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
What about a Quonset Hut? I see them for sale at the
State Fair here
in Utah and they seem pretty cheap, relatively speaking.
I have a 32'x48' quonset hut at my farm... it's nice that it was there
when I bought the place in 1998, but as another poster pointed out,
it's not the most efficient use of available square footage. I'm
going to be looking through the remainder off this thread with some
interest - I have wanted to build a ~2500 sq ft building next to the
quonset hut since I aquired the farm, but haven't done much more than
keep an eye out for various options.
Unless the cost differential is *significant*, I'll be evaluating
vertical wall building designs for the new building.
-ethan
4:08 p.m.
New subject: Storage Buildings
In article <f4eb766f0612271212rd6c674cg6424e05ce95d5c9 at mail.gmail.com>,
"Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> writes:
On 12/18/06, Richard <legalize at xmission.com>
wrote:
I think their main selling points are that it is easy to transport the
materials (flatbed truck), easy to assemble and can be assembled
rapidly.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
What about a Quonset Hut? I see them for sale at
the State Fair here
in Utah and they seem pretty cheap, relatively speaking.
I have a 32'x48' quonset hut at my farm... it's nice that it was there
when I bought the place in 1998, but as another poster pointed out,
it's not the most efficient use of available square footage. [...] 
17 Dec
17 Dec
7:27 p.m.
James wrote...
I wish to apologize to the list for making potentially
rancorous OT
references to religion and politics.
Apology accepted... I had to go back and look.
I had deleted the first
message, thinking it was spam that made it through to the list ;)
They were over-general to begin
with, as I had in mind certain ... *HUGE SNIP*
The rest of that was back in the same vein as the original post ;)
We really need to make an effort to keep political & religious inferences
off list. Believe me, I know it's hard. I'm a political junkie myself so
when someone makes a side comment it's REALLY hard for me not to start a
"tit-for-tat". But I try, and continue to work at it :)
Jay
7:46 p.m.
On 18/12/06 00:27, "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> wrote:
We really need to make an effort to keep political
& religious inferences
off list. Believe me, I know it's hard. I'm a political junkie myself so
when someone makes a side comment it's REALLY hard for me not to start a
"tit-for-tat". But I try, and continue to work at it :)
Just do what I do and send it all to /dev/null :)
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
19 Dec
19 Dec
8:07 p.m.
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 18:27:02 -0600
"Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> wrote:
James wrote...
Point taken. I will say I was just overcome with frustration because I
have promised some work to Al, Guntis, and others here and elsewhere
that I haven't been able to get done, due to willful interference and
obstruction from certain quarters. Certainly not from anyone on the
list, though. My apologies again.
jbdigriz
I wish to apologize to the list for making
potentially rancorous OT
references to religion and politics.
Apology accepted... I had to go back and
look. I had deleted the
first message, thinking it was spam that made it through to the
list ;)
They were over-general to begin
with, as I had in mind certain ... *HUGE SNIP*
The rest of that was back in the same vein as the original post ;)
We really need to make an effort to keep political & religious
inferences off list. Believe me, I know it's hard. I'm a political
junkie myself so when someone makes a side comment it's REALLY hard
for me not to start a "tit-for-tat". But I try, and continue to work
at it :)
Jay
8:20 p.m.
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 18:27:02 -0600
"Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> wrote:
James wrote...
Points taken. I can only say in my defense that I was overcome by the
sight of my vintage stuff exposed to the weather one too many times,
and because I've promised Al, Guntis, and others here and elsewhere a
number of things I haven't been able to get done, not for want of
trying, either.
jbdigriz
I wish to apologize to the list for making
potentially rancorous OT
references to religion and politics.
Apology accepted... I had to go back and
look. I had deleted the
first message, thinking it was spam that made it through to the
list ;)
They were over-general to begin
with, as I had in mind certain ... *HUGE SNIP*
The rest of that was back in the same vein as the original post ;)
We really need to make an effort to keep political & religious
inferences off list. Believe me, I know it's hard. I'm a political
junkie myself so when someone makes a side comment it's REALLY hard
for me not to start a "tit-for-tat". But I try, and continue to work
at it :)
Jay
6417
days inactive
6427
days old
30 comments
18 participants
participants (18)
-
alexandre-listas＠e-secure.com.br -
bobalan＠sbcglobal.net -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
geneb＠simpits.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jbdigriz＠dragonsweb.org -
jos.mar＠bluewin.ch -
jplist＠kiwigeek.com -
julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
jwstephens＠msm.umr.edu -
legalize＠xmission.com -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk -
wizard＠voyager.net