7 Mar
2002
7 Mar
'02
5:29 a.m.
>Moral/Risk: If you are wanting long-term data
storage, the format is just
as
>important as the materials.
>
>This is not a new problem - It has appeared in Risks before (RISKS-21.56:
>'NASA data from 1970s lost due to "forgotten" file format' for
one...), but
>is worth keeping in mind. I still have an old Commodore 64/128 disk with my
>(very) old account details on it - not that I have a C64/128 any more. My
>permanent records, however, are the printouts.
Hogwash. I can't recall how many times someone handed me a
tape back in the 80s, totally unaware of the format of the
data on it, that required only time and dedication in order
to turn back into something useful.
NASA hasn't lost data, it's lost the will to hire and
retain talented people who can make things work. Just
like everyplace else in this whacko economy...
-dq
7 Mar
7 Mar
6:22 a.m.
--- Douglas Quebbeman <dhquebbeman(a)theestopinalgroup.com> wrote:
No arguing with that, but I think this particular example is real. The
problem is oversimplified and understated with the phrase "forgotton file
format" - if I'm remembering the incident accurately, it was more a case
of "obsolete media format" - 200 bpi *7* track tape, once common.
I know that a friend of mine from the Ice worked on a project to digest
metric tons of 2MT7 (not that it was ever called that, but as a label
to differentiate it from the more common 16MT9) loaded with data from
the Apollo program. IIRC, some of it was data pertaining to the laser
reflectometer and how many wavelengths of light the moon is from us at
any particular moment (an experiement which shows physical evidence the
moon is still ringing like a struck bell from a "recent" impact, possibly
one observed and documented 500 years ago in Europe and China).
The rig they used (making this on-topic!) was a PDP-11 with a 7-track
tape drive (don't know the model number) and an 8mm Exabyte drive,
probably an 8200, but I don't know for certain. In between the tape
drives, on the PDP-11 was some simple copying software and some
slave labor^H^H^H^H^H^H^Ha graduate student. I don't have exact numbers,
but it was on the order of several cubic meters of magtape distilled down
to a file drawer of 8mm carts. Presumably, multiple copies were made
and disseminated (one would hate to think all that work would end up
on tapes that were never read again).
I heard about this project during the 1995-1996 austral summer.
-ethan
P.S. - it was reminscent of the problems of reading the 1960 census. I'd
heard that the only extant copy of the data was on microfilmed round-holed
punch cards. Round-holed because that's the equipment (Univac?) they
used for that census. Microfilmed because the climate controlled warehouse
for that many punch cards for that many decades was getting too expensive
to maintain. Various schemes were floated for recovering that data when
the time came (since all census data is _eventually_ released, 70 years
later in the case of details). In the end, I think, a 7 track tape copy
of the data was found and read, obviating the need to OCR millions of
microfilmed punch cards.
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>This is
not a new problem - It has appeared in Risks before
> (RISKS-21.56: 'NASA data from 1970s lost due to "forgotten" file
> format'...
NASA hasn't lost data, it's lost the will to hire and
retain talented people who can make things work. Just
like everyplace else in this whacko economy... 
6:59 a.m.
The rig they used (making this on-topic!) was a PDP-11
with a 7-track
tape drive (don't know the model number) and an 8mm Exabyte drive,
probably an 8200, but I don't know for certain. In between the tape
drives, on the PDP-11 was some simple copying software and some
slave labor^H^H^H^H^H^H^Ha graduate student. I don't have exact numbers,
but it was on the order of several cubic meters of magtape distilled down
to a file drawer of 8mm carts. Presumably, multiple copies were made
and disseminated (one would hate to think all that work would end up
on tapes that were never read again).
I hope someone is going to transfer the data from the 8mm
tapes to some other format while the tapes can still be
read. I've read some discussions about problems with
long-term storage of 8mm tapes.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
8:31 a.m.
New subject: Round holes (square pegs?) RE: Seen on RISKS-L
On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
P.S. - it was reminscent of the problems of reading
the 1960 census. I'd
heard that the only extant copy of the data was on microfilmed round-holed
punch cards. Round-holed because that's the equipment (Univac?) they
used for that census. Microfilmed because the climate controlled warehouse
Round-holed because IBM got a patent on the shape of the hole in punch
cards! Until the patent was overturned, other companies tried various
ridiculous work arounds, such as round holes.
IBM also got a patent on using a metal brush and brass roller for card
reading. That really bollixed up the industry! Some tried 960 push
buttons in a matrix, etc. Then somebody finally succeeded in using light
and photocell. Suddenly the IBM patent that blocked everybody else's card
readers was responsible for the competition coming out with a card reader
that was significantly faster than IBM's!
Sorry, but I don't have references and details on these events. My father
had told me about them before he died.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
8108
days inactive
8108
days old
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