24 May
2006
24 May
'06
6:47 a.m.
I just got a VERY interesting phone call from the US Department Of
Defense Cybercrimes division. I don't think it would be prudent to disclose
the details but this MAY turn out to be VERY important. They have several
HP 9845 tapes that they need to read. Can anyone help? Yes I know all the
problems about the HP tapes and tape drives. I'm the one that found most of
them so let's not rehash that. What I'm looking for is a working HP 9845
with a working tape drive preferably in the Washington DC area. Also
information about linking a 9845 to a PC or other modernish computer so
that any readable data can be transferred to a modern format. I know
there's been some discussion about trying to read HP tapes on other
devices. Has anyone tried to do that yet? I have several 9845s but I
haven't fired up any of them in a couple of years and I know none of them
have a working tape drive. I have rebuilt the drives on other HP but never
bothered to in the 9845s.
Joe
24 May
24 May
11:15 a.m.
I used to read a ton of different/undocumented/proprietary/closed format
tapes on one of G.E.'s suitably equipped VAX'es. Many Many times
some closed format would be an undocumented open one or at least an
easily decipherable one.
Maybe Sellam Ismail with his FutureKeep system should keep a table of
manufacturer specific product names mapped to general industry names.
They have several HP 9845 tapes that they need to
read.
I don't know this format personally but wouldn't be surprised if I or
another lister could read it anyway, for the reason mentioned above.
John A.
*"VAX'en" in modern retro-lingo
5:24 p.m.
have a working tape drive. I have rebuilt the drives
on other HP but never
bothered to in the 9845s.
The drives in my 9845B are indentical to the drives in the
9815/9825/9831/9877 units. If you've rebuilt one of those drives, you
should be able to (temporarily) fit it to the 9845.
The cotnroller is different, however. It doesn't even use the same I/O
bus signals as the controller in the 9825/9831, so I assume it's not even
software compatible.
-tony
4:07 p.m.
At 10:24 PM 5/24/06 +0100, you wrote:
I thought that was the case (cases?). I had just never bothered to
rebuilt one for the 9845. BTW have you had problems with the 9845s being
flaky? I usually have to tinker with them and clean and reseat the boards
before I can get them to work if I've left them sitting more than a day or
two.
Joe
have a working
tape drive. I have rebuilt the drives on other HP but never
bothered to in the 9845s.
The drives in my 9845B are indentical to the drives in the
9815/9825/9831/9877 units. If you've rebuilt one of those drives, you
should be able to (temporarily) fit it to the 9845.
The cotnroller is different, however. It doesn't even use the same I/O
bus signals as the controller in the 9825/9831, so I assume it's not even
software compatible.
25 May
25 May
5:03 p.m.
flaky? I usually have to tinker with them and clean
and reseat the boards
before I can get them to work if I've left them sitting more than a day or
two.
Not especially. And I can't see any obvious reason why this should be the
case -- they're the same edge connectors used on other HP products, the
boards fit in proper guides and are clamped down, etc.
Maybe your machine(s) have been used is a slightly corrosive atmosphere
or something.
-tony
10:27 p.m.
In article <200605250041.k4P0fkLK017309 at mwave.heeltoe.com>,
Brad Parker <brad at heeltoe.com> writes:
"Joe R." wrote:
...
I believe these are DC-100 tapes, like those used in the Tektronix
4041 System Controller and the HP 264x line of terminals.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
They have several HP 9845 tapes that they need to
read.
I'm not an HP person, but what exactly is an "HP 9845 tape". Is is a
DC1000 style cart? Anything like a DEC TU-58?
25 May
25 May
4:40 a.m.
At 08:27 PM 5/24/06 -0600, you wrote:
In article <200605250041.k4P0fkLK017309 at mwave.heeltoe.com>,
Brad Parker <brad at heeltoe.com> writes:
Correct. They're also used in the HP 9815, 9825, 9835, HP-85 as well as
other HP calculators and test equipment such as some of their protocall
analyzers.
I seriously doubt these can be read in another machine. For one thing,
HP stores the program files in a tokenized format and AFIK no one knows
what the token values are.
Joe
"Joe R." wrote:
...
I believe these are DC-100 tapes, like those used in the Tektronix
4041 System Controller and the HP 264x line of terminals. They have several HP 9845 tapes that they need to
read.
I'm not an HP person, but what exactly is an "HP 9845 tape". Is is a
DC1000 style cart? Anything like a DEC TU-58? --
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
8:41 a.m.
At 10:10 AM 5/25/06 -0400, you wrote:
It would much simpler to just fix the tape drive in a 9845 and use it.
The drive isn't the biggest problem. The real problems are that tapes are
very prone to shedding the media and therefore permanently losing the data.
Also the calculator interprets the now clear media as an EOT hole so you
can't read anything past that. PLUS the drive belts in the cassette tapes
dry out and fall apart so you usually have to replace those to even get the
tape to move. All in all, you get FEW chances to read the tape. You need to
have everything as near perfect as possible and then read the tape ONCE and
be able to interpret it properly the first time.
Joe
I seriously
doubt these can be read in another machine. For one thing,
HP stores the program files in a tokenized format and AFIK no one knows
what the token values are.
Reverse Engineering.
Start with storing HelloWorld.BAS yourself, then reading it, etc.
5:34 p.m.
I seriously doubt these can be read in another
machine. For one thing,
HP stores the program files in a tokenized format and AFIK no one knows
what the token values are.
Reverse Engineering.
Start with storing HelloWorld.BAS yourself, then reading it, etc.
5:11 p.m.
"Joe R." wrote:
...
The obvious answer is that it's a tape used in an HP9845 desktop
computer. This was one of the most complicated BASIC machines ever, 2
processors (one to run BASIC, the other for I/O), etc. The base model had
a pair of HP 'BPC' hybrid processor modules in there, there was a 'high
speed language processor option' that replaced the language processor
with 3 boards stuffed with AMD2900-series, etc.
This machine has one tape drive built in, and an optional second one.
They have several HP 9845 tapes that they need to
read.
I'm not an HP person, but what exactly is an "HP 9845 tape". Is is a
DC1000 style cart? Anything like a DEC TU-58?
Physically, it's a the same cartridge as a TU58, although not
pre-formatted with a clock track. There are certainly 2 (and only 2)
tracks on the tape, but more than that I can't tell you. The 9845B
controller (the only one I've seen) has a heatsinked hybrid circuit in
the middle of the PCB. Some of the pins go to the I/O bus, others go to
the tape drive. And there's not that much more on that PCB.
The same tapes were used in the 9825 'calculator', and I believe the 9845
can read 9825 tapes. The 9825 controller is all known chips, but it's
also very processor-intensive (to the extent it doesn't even include a
serial <-> parallel shift register, instead the bits off the tape are
DMAed into the LSBs of successive memory locations, it's up to software
to sort them out). So details of that controller are not a lot of help
either.
-tony
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allain＠panix.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
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