6 Mar
2008
6 Mar
'08
11:58 a.m.
Hi,
Someone sent me this yesterday and I thought it might be of interest
to the various 6502 enthusiasts on this list.
It's a PDF of the transistor schematic of the 6502 CPU. It's high
resolution and fairly detailed (includes annotations of the various
bits of the CPU).
I put it up on my website at: http://www.shiresoft.com/downloads/docs/6502.pdf
Have fun!
TTFN - Guy
6 Mar
6 Mar
1:01 p.m.
At 07:58 AM 3/6/2008, you wrote:
Hi,
Someone sent me this yesterday and I thought it might be of interest
to the various 6502 enthusiasts on this list.
It's a PDF of the transistor schematic of the 6502 CPU. It's high
resolution and fairly detailed (includes annotations of the various
bits of the CPU).
I put it up on my website at: http://www.shiresoft.com/downloads/docs/6502.pdf
Do you have any more information on this? Is it an official document
or something done to make a processor similar to a 6502? I'd like to
find the guy who did it. If he had the CAD file then we could make a
gerber. : D
2:02 p.m.
Grant Stockly wrote:
Do you have any more information on this? Is it an
official document or
something done to make a processor similar to a 6502? I'd like to find
the guy who did it. If he had the CAD file then we could make a
gerber. : D
But who plans to solder in all them Fets. :)
2:12 p.m.
On Mar 6, 2008, at 2:02 PM, woodelf wrote:
I'll do it!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Do you have
any more information on this? Is it an official
document or something done to make a processor similar to a 6502?
I'd like to find the guy who did it. If he had the CAD file then
we could make a gerber. : D
But who plans to solder in all them Fets. :)
3:04 p.m.
Dave McGuire wrote:
I'll do it!
Since we seem to going backwards in tech
dave will have the first 6500 for a Apple [] :)
Now who has plans for a 1K DRAM ...
find the guy who did it. If he had the CAD file then
we could make a
gerber. : D
But who plans to solder in all them Fets. :) -Dave
4:20 p.m.
There is always http://www.6502.org
which lists some places that still make and sell the chips such as
http://www.westerndesigncenter.com/
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:04:39 -0700
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca
To:
Subject: Re: 6502 CPU schematics
Dave McGuire wrote:
I'll do it!
Since we seem to going backwards in tech
dave will have the first 6500 for a Apple [] :)
Now who has plans for a 1K DRAM ...
_________________________________________________________________
find the guy who did it. If he had the CAD file then
we could make a
gerber. : D
But who plans to solder in all them Fets. :) -Dave
5:40 p.m.
Dan Gahlinger wrote:
There is always http://www.6502.org
I don't like them ... They have a *Evil* 6502 cpu design. :)
which lists some places that still make and sell the
chips such as
http://www.westerndesigncenter.com/
But try and find a 6501 CPU! Other than the Apple 1, I can't think
of any other computer that even said a thing about the 6501.
5:55 p.m.
From: "woodelf" <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: 6502 CPU schematics
But try and find a 6501 CPU! Other than the Apple 1,
I can't think
of any other computer that even said a thing about the 6501.
Chuck Peddle stated in 2007 ""...we stopped producing the 6501 so none
really made it to market in any numbers. We never intended anyone to buy it
anyhow. It was an in your face to Motorola... It is indeed rare.""
cheers,
Lance
// Retro Amiga BBS - original
\\ // hardware & software!
\\// telnet://landover.no-ip.com
6:35 p.m.
Lance Lyon wrote:
Chuck Peddle stated in 2007 ""...we stopped
producing the 6501 so none
really made it to market in any numbers. We never intended anyone to
buy it anyhow. It was an in your face to Motorola... It is indeed rare.""
That is a lie, the 6501 was ment to be sold, until the lawyers said otherwise. :)
Thinking back a homebrew computer ( with a change in the cpu card) was
in BYTE a 6800 or a 6502 machine.
cheers,
Lance
7 Mar
7 Mar
5:34 p.m.
Thinking back a homebrew computer ( with a change in
the cpu card) was
in BYTE a 6800 or a 6502 machine.
The 6800 and 6502 buses are indeed very similar, so this does not suprise
me at all.
I think the UK-designed Tangerine machine had a CPU card with overlapping
40 pin IC pads for either a 6800 or a 6502 (you had to change the monitor
ROMs as well, of course).
-tony
8 Mar
8 Mar
12:07 a.m.
On Friday 07 March 2008 17:34, Tony Duell wrote:
Which reminds me, does anybody else remember those machines that had multiple
CPUs in them? Or the option of plugging different ones in? Seems to me real
early on there were some mfrs trying to find as much compatibility as they
could with pursuing options like that. I remember one Taiwanese-made clone
of an Apple II that had a Z80 on the main board, and of course the c128 has
that similar setup (though the way the hardware was structured the z80
effectively ran at something like 2.5MHz). I remember some other system
where you could literally plug in different processors for different uses,
but the brand name isn't coming to mind at the moment.
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
Thinking back
a homebrew computer ( with a change in the cpu card) was
in BYTE a 6800 or a 6502 machine.
The 6800 and 6502 buses are indeed very similar, so this does not suprise
me at all.
I think the UK-designed Tangerine machine had a CPU card with overlapping
40 pin IC pads for either a 6800 or a 6502 (you had to change the monitor
ROMs as well, of course). 
8:59 a.m.
On Sat, 8 Mar 2008, Roy J. Tellason wrote:
On Friday 07 March 2008 17:34, Tony Duell wrote:
Which reminds me, does anybody else remember those machines that had multiple
CPUs in them? Or the option of plugging different ones in? Seems to me real
early on there were some mfrs trying to find as much compatibility as they
could with pursuing options like that. I remember one Taiwanese-made clone
of an Apple II that had a Z80 on the main board, and of course the c128 has
that similar setup (though the way the hardware was structured the z80
effectively ran at something like 2.5MHz). I remember some other system
where you could literally plug in different processors for different uses,
but the brand name isn't coming to mind at the moment.
That may be the Dimension 2000. I have one in my collection, along with
the Z80 and 6502 CPU boards. Always wanted to find the rarer board that
used a National Semi 32?? something to run an earlier version of Unix.
--
Thinking
back a homebrew computer ( with a change in the cpu card) was
in BYTE a 6800 or a 6502 machine.
The 6800 and 6502 buses are indeed very similar, so this does not suprise
me at all.
I think the UK-designed Tangerine machine had a CPU card with overlapping
40 pin IC pads for either a 6800 or a 6502 (you had to change the monitor
ROMs as well, of course). 
6 Mar
6 Mar
10:51 p.m.
New subject: 6502 CPU schematics - 6501
woodelf wrote:
But try and find a 6501 CPU! Other than the Apple 1,
I can't think
of any other computer that even said a thing about the 6501.
Eric Smith has one, made by the digital group:
http://gallery.brouhaha.com/the_digital_group/img_3561
I also have a *working* one, but no pics yet. That makes TWO!
-Bryan
11:14 p.m.
New subject: 6502 CPU schematics - 6501
Bryan Blackburn wrote:
Eric Smith has one, made by the digital group:
http://gallery.brouhaha.com/the_digital_group/img_3561
I also have a *working* one, but no pics yet. That makes TWO!
-Bryan
You might want to copy the Prom if you can. The one in the photo
does not have a cover, so it could be erased by now.
7 Mar
7 Mar
1:36 a.m.
New subject: 6502 CPU schematics - 6501
woodelf wrote:
Bryan Blackburn wrote:
I can read/copy 1702A's if needed to archive that 6501 system Eprom...
John :-#)#
Eric Smith has one, made by the digital group:
http://gallery.brouhaha.com/the_digital_group/img_3561
I also have a *working* one, but no pics yet. That makes TWO!
-Bryan
You might want to copy the Prom if you can. The one in the photo
does not have a cover, so it could be erased by now.
12 Mar
12 Mar
3:23 p.m.
New subject: 6502 CPU schematics - 6501
John Robertson wrote:
Thanks John, I may take you up on that! The one in the photo isn't mine
- I have mine covered - but a backup would be sweet.
-Bryan
You might want to copy the Prom if you can. The one in the photo
does not have a cover, so it could be erased by now.
I can read/copy 1702A's if needed to archive that 6501 system Eprom...
John :-#)#
7 Mar
7 Mar
1:38 a.m.
woodelf wrote:
Dan Gahlinger wrote:
Would it be that hard
to wire up an adapter to map the 6502 pinout to
the 6800?
Jim
There is always http://www.6502.org
I don't like them ... They have a *Evil* 6502 cpu design. :)
which lists some places that still make and sell
the chips such as
http://www.westerndesigncenter.com/
But try and find a 6501 CPU! Other than the Apple 1, I can't think
of any other computer that even said a thing about the 6501. 
5:23 a.m.
<snip>
From what I understand, The 6501 was a 6800 instruction clone that was
sued into history by Motor-ola.
Jim
11:49 a.m.
davis wrote:
<snip>
From what I understand, The 6501 was a 6800 instruction clone that was
sued into history by Motor-ola.
That was a good thing in hindsight ... it gave them
time to add better clock
generation on the 6502. Looking back, the 6800 clock was as much a pain as
the 8080A clock, and no IC's at the time to generate the clocks too.( when they
first came out)
Jim
.
3:06 p.m.
woodelf wrote:
davis wrote:
Probably good in more ways than one. I seem to recall the suit helped
Jack Tramiel buy the company. Now, maybe not good from a MOS
perspective, but CBM's ownership of a chip fab gave the world better
access to technologies like SID, VIC, etc. It also drive those prices down.
I can;t remember if Jack got MOS from the suit draining MOS cash so
much, or if he cancelled a large calc chip order and put MOS in a bind.
Jim
--
Jim Brain, Brain Innovations (X)
brain at jbrain.com
Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times!
Home: http://www.jbrain.com
<snip>
From what I understand, The 6501 was a 6800 instruction clone that
was sued into history by Motor-ola.
That was a good thing in hindsight ... it gave
them time to add better
clock
generation on the 6502. Looking back, the 6800 clock was as much a
pain as
the 8080A clock, and no IC's at the time to generate the clocks too.(
when they
first came out)
Jim
.
6 Mar
6 Mar
11:56 p.m.
On Thursday 06 March 2008 16:20, Dan Gahlinger wrote:
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
There is always http://www.6502.org
which lists some places that still make and sell the chips such as
http://www.westerndesigncenter.com/
I have a bunch of 65xx parts on hand, if anybody is looking for some...
Date: Thu, 6
Mar 2008 13:04:39 -0700
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca
To:
Subject: Re: 6502 CPU schematics
Dave McGuire wrote:
Since we seem to going backwards in tech
dave will have the first 6500 for a Apple [] :)
Now who has plans for a 1K DRAM ...
> -Dave
_________________________________________________________________ > find
the guy who did it. If he had the CAD file then we could make a
> gerber. : D
But who plans to solder in all them Fets. :)
I'll do it! 
7 Mar
7 Mar
3:29 p.m.
Roy J. Tellason wrote:
I have a bunch of 65xx parts on hand, if anybody is
looking for some...
Well, I'm short of a 6520 PIA! Have you any of those left? If so,
please contact me off list.
When I was 13 (1980. Ouch!) I was given a PET for my birthday. A few
years later I blew up an output buffer in one of the 6520s trying to use
the Cassette 2 motor output as a controlled power supply. We connected
one of those two-tone doobells that uses the back emf from the "ding"
solenoid when you open the switch to sound the "dong". Said back emf
killed the output buffer on that pin of the 6520. It managed to do so
without any noticeable damage to the intervening circuitry, too!
I have other PETs, but (a) I want to preserve my "original" one and (b)
it goes against the grain to scavenge chips from another working system.
My PET is useable, but I have to swap the 6520s around depending on
what I/O function I need...
Philip.
8 Mar
8 Mar
4 a.m.
On Friday 07 March 2008 15:29, Philip Belben wrote:
Roy J. Tellason wrote:
Them I don't seem to show in my list, though I have lots of 6522 and 6526.
Maybe I'll do some digging and see if I can't find one someplace, but so far
it's not looking good...
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
I have a bunch of 65xx parts on hand, if anybody
is looking for some...
Well, I'm short of a 6520 PIA! Have you any of those left? If so,
please contact me off list.
When I was 13 (1980. Ouch!) I was given a PET for my birthday. A few
years later I blew up an output buffer in one of the 6520s trying to use
the Cassette 2 motor output as a controlled power supply. We connected
one of those two-tone doobells that uses the back emf from the "ding"
solenoid when you open the switch to sound the "dong". Said back emf
killed the output buffer on that pin of the 6520. It managed to do so
without any noticeable damage to the intervening circuitry, too!
I have other PETs, but (a) I want to preserve my "original" one and (b)
it goes against the grain to scavenge chips from another working system.
My PET is useable, but I have to swap the 6520s around depending on
what I/O function I need... 
5:22 a.m.
On 07/03/2008 20:29, Philip Belben wrote:
Well, I'm short of a 6520 PIA! Have you any of
those left? If so,
please contact me off list.
When I was 13 (1980. Ouch!) I was given a PET for my birthday. A few
years later I blew up an output buffer in one of the 6520s trying to use
the Cassette 2 motor output as a controlled power supply. We connected
one of those two-tone doobells that uses the back emf from the "ding"
solenoid when you open the switch to sound the "dong". Said back emf
killed the output buffer on that pin of the 6520. It managed to do so
without any noticeable damage to the intervening circuitry, too!
Common problem -- 6520s are fragile. For that reason, it was common, at
least here, to replace them with Motorola MC6821s, which was a later
version of the MC6820, which is just the same as the MCS6520. Lots of
the PETs at the college where I worked in the early 80s had Motorola
replacements because the 6821 seems to be more robust than the 6520.
So replacing the missing or damaged 6520 with a Motorola MC6821, which
should be much easier to find, even has a degree of authenticity :-)
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
1:15 p.m.
Pete Turnbull, quoting me:
Thanks for the tip. 6821 or 6820 goes on my mental wish list.
Philip.
When I was 13
(1980. Ouch!) I was given a PET for my birthday. A few
years later I blew up an output buffer in one of the 6520s trying to
use the Cassette 2 motor output as a controlled power supply. We
connected one of those two-tone doobells that uses the back emf from
the "ding" solenoid when you open the switch to sound the "dong".
Said back emf killed the output buffer on that pin of the 6520. It
managed to do so without any noticeable damage to the intervening
circuitry, too!
Common problem -- 6520s are fragile. For that reason, it was common, at
least here, to replace them with Motorola MC6821s, which was a later
version of the MC6820, which is just the same as the MCS6520. Lots of
the PETs at the college where I worked in the early 80s had Motorola
replacements because the 6821 seems to be more robust than the 6520.
So replacing the missing or damaged 6520 with a Motorola MC6821, which
should be much easier to find, even has a degree of authenticity :-) 
9 Mar
9 Mar
5:33 a.m.
On Sat, Mar 08, 2008 at 06:15:13PM +0000, Philip Belben wrote:
Pete Turnbull:
>So replacing the missing or damaged 6520 with a Motorola MC6821, which
>should be much easier to find, even has a degree of authenticity :-)
I have done this as well and not noticed any unusual behavior. Because
there was a 6821 on every COMBOARD-I, I have a few in my parts box, but
not many 6520s. It also works on the display board for an AIM-65, FWIW.
Thanks for the tip. 6821 or 6820 goes on my mental
wish list.
Try Unicorn Electronics - http://198.170.117.30/IC/6800.html - $3.49
each, but they do have a $20 minimum order.
-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks, A-333-S Current South Pole Weather at 9-Mar-2008 at 09:30 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -58.5 F (-50.3 C) Windchill -76.9 F (-60.5 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 3.6 kts Grid 41 Barometer 682.0 mb (10553 ft)
Ethan.Dicks at usap.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
8 Mar
8 Mar
3:31 p.m.
Roy J. Tellason wrote:
Is there any reason why this can't e replaced by a 6821, which is a lot
more common?
-tony
I have a bunch of 65xx parts on hand, if anybody
is looking for some...
Well, I'm short of a 6520 PIA! Have you any of those left? If so,
please contact me off list.
7 Mar
7 Mar
3:30 p.m.
At 10:12 AM 3/6/2008, you wrote:
On Mar 6, 2008, at 2:02 PM, woodelf wrote:
I'll do it!
To woodelf...
http://www.stockly.com/images2/060129-LED_Display_Front_2718.jpg
http://www.stockly.com/images2/060129-LED_Display_Back_2716.jpg
Soldering a few thousand of them 3 legged critters doesn't seem like
that big of a job...compared to soldering 19,008 LEDs. : )
When I said I wanted blinkin lights for an Alitar, I took myself
seriously! : )
And I saved the legs!
http://www.stockly.com/images2/060129-Weight_of_39584_Legs_2696.jpg
Do you
have any more information on this? Is it an official
document or something done to make a processor similar to a 6502?
I'd like to find the guy who did it. If he had the CAD file then
we could make a gerber. : D
But who plans to solder in all them Fets. :) 
3:43 p.m.
Grant Stockly wrote:
To woodelf...
http://www.stockly.com/images2/060129-LED_Display_Front_2718.jpg
http://www.stockly.com/images2/060129-LED_Display_Back_2716.jpg
So what is the led display for?
Soldering a few thousand of them 3 legged critters
doesn't seem like
that big of a job...compared to soldering 19,008 LEDs. : )
When I said I wanted blinkin lights for an Alitar, I took myself
seriously! : )
And I saved the legs!
http://www.stockly.com/images2/060129-Weight_of_39584_Legs_2696.jpg
.
4:36 p.m.
woodelf wrote:
Grant Stockly wrote:
So what is the led display for?
Can we see it in action?
Will we need a picture or can you just tell us when you plan to
turn it on and we check for a glow in the sky :-)
Antonio
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1316 - Release Date:
06/03/2008 18:58
2:11 a.m.
On Thursday 06 March 2008 08:58, Guy Sotomayor wrote:
Hi,
Someone sent me this yesterday and I thought it might be of
interest to the various 6502 enthusiasts on this list.
It's a PDF of the transistor schematic of the 6502 CPU. It's high
resolution and fairly detailed (includes annotations of the
various bits of the CPU).
I put it up on my website at:
http://www.shiresoft.com/downloads/docs/6502.pdf
Have fun!
Now THAT'S cool. Thanks!!!!
Cheers,
Lyle
--
Lyle Bickley
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
Mountain View, CA
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
2:37 a.m.
Lyle Bickley wrote:
On Thursday 06 March 2008 08:58, Guy Sotomayor wrote:
The schematic seems funny on first look. Eight address lines look like
they are missing. Or is it just my tired eyes.
Jim.
Hi,
Someone sent me this yesterday and I thought it might be of
interest to the various 6502 enthusiasts on this list.
It's a PDF of the transistor schematic of the 6502 CPU. It's high
resolution and fairly detailed (includes annotations of the
various bits of the CPU).
I put it up on my website at:
http://www.shiresoft.com/downloads/docs/6502.pdf
Have fun!
Now THAT'S cool. Thanks!!!!
Cheers,
Lyle
2:44 a.m.
davis wrote:
Lyle Bickley wrote:
Yep, tired eyes. High address buffers are on the top of the schematic.
Jim.
On Thursday 06 March 2008 08:58, Guy Sotomayor
wrote:
The schematic seems funny on first look. Eight address lines look like
they are missing. Or is it just my tired eyes.
Jim.
Hi,
Someone sent me this yesterday and I thought it might be of
interest to the various 6502 enthusiasts on this list.
It's a PDF of the transistor schematic of the 6502 CPU. It's high
resolution and fairly detailed (includes annotations of the
various bits of the CPU).
I put it up on my website at:
http://www.shiresoft.com/downloads/docs/6502.pdf
Have fun!
Now THAT'S cool. Thanks!!!!
Cheers,
Lyle
4:33 a.m.
Guy Sotomayor wrote:
Hi,
Someone sent me this yesterday and I thought it might be of interest
to the various 6502 enthusiasts on this list.
It's a PDF of the transistor schematic of the 6502 CPU. It's high
resolution and fairly detailed (includes annotations of the various
bits of the CPU).
I put it up on my website at:
http://www.shiresoft.com/downloads/docs/6502.pdf
Have fun!
TTFN - Guy
Tracing the instruction decode output signals is the biggest problem
with this very pretty document.
Jim.
9:51 a.m.
On Mar 6, 2008, at 11:58 AM, Guy Sotomayor wrote:
Someone sent me this yesterday and I thought it might
be of
interest to the various 6502 enthusiasts on this list.
It's a PDF of the transistor schematic of the 6502 CPU. It's high
resolution and fairly detailed (includes annotations of the various
bits of the CPU).
I put it up on my website at: http://www.shiresoft.com/downloads/
docs/6502.pdf
Have fun!
Whoa...wow...I had no idea there were so few transistors in the 6502!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
5971
days inactive
5977
days old
35 comments
19 participants
participants (19)
-
arcarlini＠iee.org -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
brain＠jbrain.com -
cc＠informatik.uni-stuttgart.de -
davis＠saw.net -
dgahling＠hotmail.com -
ethan.dicks＠usap.gov -
ggs＠shiresoft.com -
grant＠stockly.com -
jrr＠flippers.com -
lance.w.lyon＠gmail.com -
lbickley＠bickleywest.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
oldcomp＠cox.net -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com -
philip＠axeside.co.uk -
rtellason＠verizon.net -
snhirsch＠gmail.com