20 May
2012
20 May
'12
11:11 p.m.
So I finally got my VT220 put back together! I have one I saved from the dumpster from a
plant floor,
but it was incredibly filthy. I disassembled it, cleaned it thoroughly, and put it back
together (over a
duration of 6+ months), and amazingly it still works! So, I had to hook it up to my
MacBook Air, just
for fun. Works like a charm, but characters on the left seem slightly fuzzier then
others. Maybe that's
just because I've been staring at the razor-sharp screens on my MacBook and iPhone too
long, and
the fact that this thing's 26 years old, but is there a way to sharpen them up a bit?
Even if not, it's still darn funny to have a physical terminal on my MacBook!
Thanks!
-Ben
21 May
21 May
8:58 a.m.
[nit: please consider hitting RETURN every 75 chars or so]
In article <5782C16A7C920E469B74E11B5608B8E70C3CBB83 at Kriegler.ntdom.cupdx>,
Benjamin Huntsman <BHuntsman at mail2.cu-portland.edu> writes:
So I finally got my VT220 put back together! [...]
the fact that this thing's 26 years old, but is there a way to sharpen them
up a bit?
You might find an adjustment procedure in the service manual(s):
<http://manx.classiccmp.org/details.php/1,2958>
<http://manx.classiccmp.org/details.php/1,2961>
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book
<http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
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Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
10:14 a.m.
On 21 May 2012 16:58, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
[nit: please consider hitting RETURN every 75 chars or so]
Please don't. Hard line-wrap has been a PITA since the 1960s and still is.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
11:55 a.m.
On May 21, 2012, at 2:26 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 05/21/2012 01:14 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
How, exactly, is it a PITA?
Presumably, it's a pocket-like flatbread made with whole wheat flour.
Capitalized.
- Dave
[nit:
please consider hitting RETURN every 75 chars or so]
Please don't. Hard line-wrap has been a PITA since the 1960s and still is. 
11:59 a.m.
[nit: please
consider hitting RETURN every 75 chars or so]
Please don't. Hard line-wrap has been a PITA since the 1960s and still
is. 
2:40 p.m.
> > > > [nit: please consider hitting
RETURN every 75 chars or so]
> > > Please don't. Hard line-wrap has been a PITA since the 1960s and
still
> > > is.
> > How, exactly, is it a PITA?
> > Presumably, it's a pocket-like flatbread made with whole wheat
> > flour.
> >Capitalized.
> I love those. I put them in rows of 75 columns each so that I have
> plenty and they are easy to rearrange. Then I have them with hummus.
TTY's are 72 columns wide. -:)
but 5 levels!
or 8
12:10 p.m.
On 05/21/2012 02:55 PM, David Riley wrote:
How, exactly, is it a PITA?
Presumably, it's a pocket-like flatbread made with whole wheat flour.
Capitalized.
Always capitalize on the pita.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
[nit: please
consider hitting RETURN every 75 chars or so]
Please don't. Hard line-wrap has been a PITA since the 1960s and still is. 
2:04 p.m.
On 5/21/2012 12:26 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 05/21/2012 01:14 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
How, exactly, is it a PITA?
TTY's are 72 chars wide. -:)
[nit:
please consider hitting RETURN every 75 chars or so]
Please don't. Hard line-wrap has been a PITA since the 1960s and still is. -Dave
5:03 p.m.
On 21 May 2012 19:26, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 05/21/2012 01:14 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
?How, exactly, is it a PITA?
Because hard-wrapped text won't reflow, so if you resize your email
window - or use a wider terminal if you're that way inclined - it
stays stuck in a narrow strip down the left hand edge of your screen.
By the same token, use a narrower window, or simply increase the font
size, and it breaks into pieces, making it particularly unfair and
unfriendly for people with low vision or other eyesight problems.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
[nit:
please consider hitting RETURN every 75 chars or so]
Please don't. Hard line-wrap has been a PITA since the 1960s and still is.
5:35 p.m.
In article <CAMTenCF2xp_u37PRC-syHSezRyTUN6xbPZbo7QKhoupWn4FhPg at mail.gmail.com>,
Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> writes:
Because hard-wrapped text won't reflow [...]
In other words, we should refuse to honor the standard conventions to
make you happy when you resize your window into non-standard sizes?
Feh.
Good luck tilting against that windmill.
--
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<http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
5:44 p.m.
On 05/21/2012 08:03 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
How, exactly, is it a PITA?
Because hard-wrapped text won't reflow, so if you resize your email
window - or use a wider terminal if you're that way inclined - it
stays stuck in a narrow strip down the left hand edge of your screen.
By the same token, use a narrower window, or simply increase the font
size, and it breaks into pieces, making it particularly unfair and
unfriendly for people with low vision or other eyesight problems.
Yow! This is not the world-wide web. The formatting of text is up to
the person doing the typing. There are accepted conventions for how
this works, and they work for everyone (except apparently you).
I am NOT trying to start an argument here, but it is my opinion that
you're trying to treat email as something that it isn't.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
[nit: please
consider hitting RETURN every 75 chars or so]
Please don't. Hard line-wrap has been a PITA since the 1960s and still is.
6:03 p.m.
On 22 May 2012 01:44, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 05/21/2012 08:03 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
Because hard-wrapped text won't reflow, so if you resize your email
window - or use a wider terminal if you're that way inclined - it
stays stuck in a narrow strip down the left hand edge of your screen.
By the same token, use a narrower window, or simply increase the font
size, and it breaks into pieces, making it particularly unfair and
unfriendly for people with low vision or other eyesight problems.
?Yow! ?This is not the world-wide web. ?The formatting of text is up to
the person doing the typing. ?There are accepted conventions for how
this works, and they work for everyone (except apparently you).
?I am NOT trying to start an argument here, but it is my opinion that
you're trying to treat email as something that it isn't.
I'm not trying to treat email like anything.
Hard line-wrapped text is broken and cannot be reflowed.
This is a fact; it is not open to debate. It is the case, it always
has been the case.
Doing that deliberately is just *rude*, and any email client that
can't line-wrap text is so very very broken that it is pathetic. That
would have been intolerable when I started out with email in 1985; I
cannot believe *any* modern MUA is that defective.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
> [nit: please consider hitting RETURN every 75
chars or so]
Please don't. Hard line-wrap has been a PITA since the 1960s and still is.
?How, exactly, is it a PITA?
6:11 p.m.
On 05/21/2012 09:03 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
Yow! This is not the world-wide web. The formatting of text is up to
the person doing the typing. There are accepted conventions for how
this works, and they work for everyone (except apparently you).
I am NOT trying to start an argument here, but it is my opinion that
you're trying to treat email as something that it isn't.
I'm not trying to treat email like anything.
Hard line-wrapped text is broken and cannot be reflowed.
This is a fact; it is not open to debate. It is the case, it always
has been the case.
Doing that deliberately is just *rude*, and any email client that
can't line-wrap text is so very very broken that it is pathetic. That
would have been intolerable when I started out with email in 1985; I
cannot believe *any* modern MUA is that defective.
We're in agreement there. I'm saying that the line-wrapping should
(and pretty much always has, all the way back to the BBS days) happen on
the SENDING end. Email isn't a "format it any way you want to READ it"
medium like the WWW was intended to be (but really isn't). It's a
"format it any way you want to WRITE it" medium.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
>> [nit:
please consider hitting RETURN every 75 chars or so]
>
> Please don't. Hard line-wrap has been a PITA since the 1960s and still is.
How, exactly, is it a PITA?
Because hard-wrapped text won't reflow, so if you resize your email
window - or use a wider terminal if you're that way inclined - it
stays stuck in a narrow strip down the left hand edge of your screen.
By the same token, use a narrower window, or simply increase the font
size, and it breaks into pieces, making it particularly unfair and
unfriendly for people with low vision or other eyesight problems.
6:21 p.m.
On 22 May 2012 02:11, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
?We're in agreement there. ?I'm saying that the line-wrapping should
(and pretty much always has, all the way back to the BBS days) happen on
the SENDING end. ?Email isn't a "format it any way you want to READ it"
medium like the WWW was intended to be (but really isn't). ?It's a
"format it any way you want to WRITE it" medium.
Back in the old days when I still used an actual email client
application, IIRC, many had options for hard-wrapping outgoing text.
Gmail doesn't, AFAIK, but sticks 'em in on its own at somewhere under
80col, AFAICS. The convenience of Gmail is worth putting up with its
lack of customisability, but then, this is not something that I
personally particularly care about. If it were an option, I'd turn it
off, but AFAIK, it isn't, and I don't hugely care.
But Richard was asking people to do it /by hand/ which indicates to me
that he is using some very badly broken reader, which is a problem for
him but not for anyone else and it is, I would say, unacceptable for
him to ask others to take special measures to accommodate his broken
software. Secondly, I feel that this is not something that people
should be doing in text files, unless it is needed for some special
purpose, such as ASCII art or the like.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
6:30 p.m.
New subject: E.S.R. Digi-comp 1 on ebay
Here's 'toy' that might interest some on this list. I have only ever
seen them assembled. Too bad there is no box. The box was really cool.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/270982905968
6:53 p.m.
New subject: E.S.R. Digi-comp 1 on ebay
On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 9:30 PM, mc68010 <mc68010 at gmail.com> wrote:
Here's 'toy' that might interest some on
this list. ?I have only ever seen
them assembled. Too bad there is no box. The box was really cool.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/270982905968
I used to have access to one when I volunteered at the local science
museum - I had to refurb it (wire parts I made from paperclips, rubber
bands I provided from my own stock since I wore braces at the time),
but it was totally worth the effort.
Anyone here ever make a modern reproduction (with or without a laser cutter)?
-ethan
7:05 p.m.
New subject: E.S.R. Digi-comp 1 on ebay
Here's
'toy' that might interest some on this list. I have only ever seen them
assembled. Too bad there is no box. The box was really cool.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/270982905968
I used to have access to one when I
volunteered at the local science museum - I had to refurb it (wire parts I made from
paperclips, rubber
bands I provided from my own stock since I wore braces at the time), but it was totally
worth the effort.
Anyone here ever make a modern reproduction (with or without a laser cutter)?
-ethan
6:32 p.m.
We're in agreement there. I'm saying that the
line-wrapping should
(and pretty much always has, all the way back to the BBS days) happen on
the SENDING end. Email isn't a "format it any way you want to READ it"
medium like the WWW was intended to be (but really isn't). It's a
"format it any way you want to WRITE it" medium.
If hard-wrapped E-mail is bad, then I guess I'm a perpetual offender.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- select unique ("Just another SQL hacker") jash from id_rec order by 1; -----
9:27 p.m.
At 08:32 PM 5/21/2012, you wrote:
Do you manually put in EVERY line break? Why use
a program at all, you could just use vi and
sendmail. I only put in breaks at the end of a
paragraph. Don't people ever change their mind
and have to insert/delete text? Then what,
rejigger all the lines by hand? Surely you don't
still do that? Even Wordstar on a CP/M system in
the 70's handled text flow better than that.
This is a new paragraph, because it's a new
thought or point. To wit, I think I must be not
understanding some folks in this discussion to
have come away with the notion that they manually
insert every last line break, something I haven't
done (except in multiline comments in Perl scripts) for decades.
-T
745 . [Faith] To know what is impenetrable to us
really exists, manifesting itself as the highest
wisdom and the most radiant beauty... this
knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true
religiousness. --Albert Einstein
NEW: a50mhzham at gmail.com ? N9QQB (amateur radio)
"HEY YOU" (loud shouting) ? Second Tops (Set Dancing) ? FIND ME ON FACEBOOK
43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W ? Elevation 815' ? Grid Square
EN53wc
LAN/Telecom Analyst ? Open-source Dude ? Musician
? Registered Linux User 385531
We're in
agreement there. I'm saying that the line-wrapping should
(and pretty much always has, all the way back to the BBS days) happen on
the SENDING end. Email isn't a "format it any way you want to READ it"
medium like the WWW was intended to be (but really isn't). It's a
"format it any way you want to WRITE it" medium.
If hard-wrapped E-mail is bad, then I guess I'm a perpetual offender.
9:37 p.m.
We're in agreement there. I'm saying that the
line-wrapping should
(and pretty much always has, all the way back to the BBS days) happen on
the SENDING end. Email isn't a "format it any way you want to READ it"
medium like the WWW was intended to be (but really isn't). It's a
"format it any way you want to WRITE it" medium.
If hard-wrapped E-mail is bad, then I guess I'm a perpetual offender. you could just use vi and sendmail.
Actually, yes (well, elm).
Don't people ever change their mind
and have to insert/delete text? Then what,
rejigger all the lines by hand? Surely you don't
still do that?
Actually, yes.
And I'm not kidding.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Seen on hand dryer: "Push button for a message from your congressman." -----
11:48 p.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
Do you
manually put in EVERY line break?
Actually, yes. Don't
people ever change their mind and have to insert/delete text?
Then what, rejigger all the lines by hand? Surely you don't still
do that?
Actually, yes. And I'm not kidding.
Me neither.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
9:41 p.m.
On 05/22/2012 12:27 AM, Tom wrote:
Do you manually put in EVERY line break? Why use a program at all, you
could just use vi and sendmail. I only put in breaks at the end of a
paragraph. Don't people ever change their mind and have to insert/delete
text? Then what, rejigger all the lines by hand? Surely you don't still
do that? Even Wordstar on a CP/M system in the 70's handled text flow
better than that.
On the TYPING end. Liam is talking about arbitrarily reflowing stuff
on the READING end. I interpret that as "displaying something other
than that which was sent", which is, IMO, evil.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
We're in agreement there. I'm saying that the
line-wrapping should
(and pretty much always has, all the way back to the BBS days)
happen on
the SENDING end. Email isn't a "format
it any way you want to READ it"
medium like the WWW was intended to be (but really isn't). It's a
"format it any way you want to WRITE it" medium.
If hard-wrapped E-mail is bad, then I guess I'm a perpetual offender. 
22 May
22 May
4:52 a.m.
* Tom <a50mhzham at gmail.com> [120522 00:32]:
At 08:32 PM 5/21/2012, you wrote:
Do you manually put in EVERY line break? Why use
a program at all, you could just use vi and
sendmail. I only put in breaks at the end of a
paragraph. Don't people ever change their mind
and have to insert/delete text? Then what,
rejigger all the lines by hand? Surely you don't
still do that? Even Wordstar on a CP/M system in
the 70's handled text flow better than that.
Yes I do use vi (well, vim) and sendmail. And mutt.
And yes I put in each line break. It's automatic just like it was
when typing on a typewriter.
v}gq takes care of reflowing a paragraph in vim.
It's amazing what programs can do for you.
Todd
We're
in agreement there. I'm saying that the line-wrapping should
(and pretty much always has, all the way back to the BBS days) happen on
the SENDING end. Email isn't a "format it any way you want to READ it"
medium like the WWW was intended to be (but really isn't). It's a
"format it any way you want to WRITE it" medium.
If hard-wrapped E-mail is bad, then I guess I'm a perpetual offender. 
8:35 a.m.
On May 22, 2012, at 13:52, Todd Goodman <tsg at bonedaddy.net> wrote:
Yes I do use vi (well, vim) and sendmail. And mutt.
And yes I put in each line break. It's automatic just like it was
when typing on a typewriter.
v}gq takes care of reflowing a paragraph in vim.
It's amazing what programs can do for you.
I usually use, when I'm not in gmail, %!fmt -79 in vi for mail formatting..
re,
Sander
21 May
21 May
7:15 p.m.
In article <CAMTenCECcbv-VbP7cZ=CG4KfF1QVdx7D8ROTdaZfYNhgXrZaLA at mail.gmail.com>,
Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> writes:
Hard line-wrapped text is broken and cannot be
reflowed.
Oh, please. I reflow people's broken line lenghts all the time when I
reply to their message. Sometimes I have to reflow them just to be
able to *read* them.
Plus, if you have a mailer that supports the format parameter to
text/plain MIME type, your reader is free to flow it anyway you want.
You can then implement a procmail filter that adds the format=flowed
to messages that don't already have this on them to suit your tastes.
The bottom line is that *you* can already get exactly what you wish
without trying to beat everyone else over the head with a club.
Doing that deliberately is just *rude*, [...]
Oh, bullshit.
Demanding that the rest of the universe conform to *your* tastes is rude.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book
<http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
9:22 p.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
>> [nit: please consider hitting RETURN every 75
chars or so]
> Please don't. Hard line-wrap has been a PITA since the 1960s and
> still is.
It is. But (a) not as much of one as paragraph-length lines, and (b)
the post that provoked that comment already had hard line breaks in it,
just mostly well over 80 characters (line lengths of 102, 106, 102,
105, 96, 87, 77, 0, 7, 0, and 4).
Please do keep line length down. If you intend your text to be
reflowable by the reader, see RFC 3676.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
22 May
22 May
9:37 a.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
On Tue, 22 May 2012, Mouse wrote:
the post that provoked that comment already had hard
line breaks in it,
just mostly well over 80 characters (line lengths of 102, 106, 102,
105, 96, 87, 77, 0, 7, 0, and 4).
Please do keep line length down. If you intend your text to be
reflowable by the reader, see RFC 3676.
Howzbout: 72?
then there is still room for a chevron or two when being quoted, or even
leave me some space to punch a sequence number (in case I drop the deck)
10:49 a.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
On 22 May 2012 at 9:37, Fred Cisin wrote:
Howzbout: 72?
then there is still room for a chevron or two when being quoted, or
even leave me some space to punch a sequence number (in case I drop
the deck)
Howzabout 64 printing characters and spaces? That will let me
display on my old 8085 box. Fortunately, I can also accept
uppercase.
Of course, if you're reading your email on a Tandy 100, keeping the
lines down to 40 characters might be advisable.
Of course, there may be cclist subscribers out there reading on 6-bit
character gear, so best to keep down the punctuation and special
characters...
--Chuck
11:17 a.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
On 5/22/2012 1:49 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Howzabout 64 printing characters and spaces? That
will let me
display on my old 8085 box. Fortunately, I can also accept
uppercase.
Of course, if you're reading your email on a Tandy 100, keeping the
lines down to 40 characters might be advisable.
Of course, there may be cclist subscribers out there reading on 6-bit
character gear, so best to keep down the punctuation and special
characters...
--Chuck
MY COCO II ONLY SUPPORTS CAPITAL
LETTERS AND 32 CHARACTERS WIDE.
PLEASE LIMIT YOUR MESSAGES TO
THIS FORMAT.
THANKS!@##
KRAD KEITH
11:41 a.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
On 5/22/12 11:17 AM, Keith Monahan wrote:
MY COCO II ONLY SUPPORTS CAPITAL
LETTERS AND 32 CHARACTERS WIDE.
PLEASE LIMIT YOUR MESSAGES TO
THIS FORMAT.
I'M SURE JAY WILL BE HAPPY TO
INSTALL AN OUTGOING MAIL FILTER
TO SATISFY WHAT APPEARS TO BE
THE LARGE COMMUNITY HERE WITH
"SPECIAL NEEDS"
12:03 p.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
On 5/22/12 11:17 AM, Keith Monahan wrote:
So who's going to
claim they read
mail on a VIC-20?
-ethan
MY COCO II ONLY SUPPORTS CAPITAL
LETTERS AND 32 CHARACTERS WIDE.
PLEASE LIMIT YOUR MESSAGES TO
THIS FORMAT.
I'M SURE JAY WILL BE HAPPY TO
INSTALL AN OUTGOING MAIL FILTER
TO SATISFY WHAT APPEARS TO BE
THE LARGE COMMUNITY HERE WITH
"SPECIAL NEEDS"
12:50 p.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
On 5/22/2012 1:03 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Al Kossow<aek at
bitsavers.org> wrote:
That I could see, with the VIC 20 as dumb terminal to larger system.
The COCO II got me thinking? Did OS/9 for the 6809 support any kind
of network?
Ben.
On 5/22/12 11:17 AM, Keith Monahan wrote:
So who's going to
claim they read
mail on a VIC-20?
-ethan
MY COCO II ONLY SUPPORTS CAPITAL
LETTERS AND 32 CHARACTERS WIDE.
PLEASE LIMIT YOUR MESSAGES TO
THIS FORMAT.
I'M SURE JAY WILL BE HAPPY TO
INSTALL AN OUTGOING MAIL FILTER
TO SATISFY WHAT APPEARS TO BE
THE LARGE COMMUNITY HERE WITH
"SPECIAL NEEDS"
1:58 p.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 3:50 PM, ben <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> wrote:
On 5/22/2012 1:03 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Since the VIC-20 does have a ROM-supported bit-banger TTL serial port
(easy to attach a 300 baud VIC-MODEM or an RS-232 level shifter to),
it _is_ feasible. The terminal program that comes on cassette with
the VIC-MODEM is kinda crappy, but it's not hard to whip up a VT-52
emulator in BASIC...
22x23 - makes the C-64 look refined by comparison.
-ethan
So who's going to
claim they read
mail on a VIC-20?
-ethan
That I could see, with the VIC 20 as dumb terminal to larger system.
2:33 p.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
Since the VIC-20 does have a ROM-supported bit-banger
TTL serial port
(easy to attach a 300 baud VIC-MODEM or an RS-232 level shifter to),
it _is_ feasible. The terminal program that comes on cassette with
the VIC-MODEM is kinda crappy, but it's not hard to whip up a VT-52
emulator in BASIC...
22x23 - makes the C-64 look refined by comparison.
I had a 40-column terminal emulator program for the VIC-20 somewhere. I am
also quite sure such a product existed on cartridge.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- If the French were really intelligent, they'd speak English. -- W. Sheed ---
3:56 p.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> wrote:
I remember such a product, but I never personally owned one. I got my
start with the technology in 1982 with a VIC-MODEM on a C-64.
I had no idea when I opened the included "free signup" CompuServe pack
(with a password I remember to this day: SECTION/ANGRY) that I'd be
working there 12 years later.
-ethan
Since the
VIC-20 does have a ROM-supported bit-banger TTL serial port...
22x23 - makes the C-64 look refined by comparison.
I had a 40-column terminal emulator program for the VIC-20 somewhere. I am
also quite sure such a product existed on cartridge.
23 May
23 May
6:39 a.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
On 5/22/2012 6:56 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
I got my
start with the technology in 1982 with a VIC-MODEM on a C-64.
I had no idea when I opened the included "free signup" CompuServe pack
(with a password I remember to this day: SECTION/ANGRY) that I'd be
working there 12 years later.
-ethan
Cool story.
I had the CoCo II, and a 300-baud radio shack "direct connect" modem
that I bought for $22.00 on clearance around 1982.
I'm glad that the modem had included that compuserve pack. I also seem
to remember that radio shack had a local BBS list that they distributed
along with modem purchases. As you know, things are considerably
different now. It was sort of the chicken and the egg problem --- you
couldn't get any BBS numbers if you didn't have at least one....
I visited the radio shack at the local mall almost every weekend, and
used quite a few trial username/passwords.
I liked the two unrelated-word password format separated by a !, @, #,
$, or whatever.
Keith
9:44 a.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
On 5/23/2012 7:39 AM, Keith Monahan wrote:
I had the CoCo II, and a 300-baud radio shack
"direct connect" modem
that I bought for $22.00 on clearance around 1982.
Well I am glad you got to use it.
I tried that and found every where was long distance. Back then you
did not have the 5 cent a minute plan. That killed my net access
till about 10 years ago, and then it was dial up @ 56k for the last
few years. I now have higher speed internet, but still limited by
long distance from the major hubs.
Ben.
10:33 a.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
On 05/23/2012 12:44 PM, ben wrote:
After all that, did it never occur to you that it might be...
...wait for it...
TIME TO MOVE?
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
I had the CoCo
II, and a 300-baud radio shack "direct connect" modem
that I bought for $22.00 on clearance around 1982.
Well I am glad you got to use it.
I tried that and found every where was long distance. Back then you
did not have the 5 cent a minute plan. That killed my net access
till about 10 years ago, and then it was dial up @ 56k for the last
few years. I now have higher speed internet, but still limited by
long distance from the major hubs.
2:54 p.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
On 5/23/2012 11:33 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
...long distance from the major hubs.
After all that, did it never occur to you that it might be...
...wait for it...
TIME TO MOVE?
I did ... even more back in the sticks ...
There is a lot of country in the COUNTRY, USA or CANADA.
Ben.
3:01 p.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
On Wed, 23 May 2012, ben wrote:
On 5/23/2012 11:33 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
...long distance from the major hubs.
Self-inflicted wounds hurt the most. :)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a
server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck.
[Cipher in a.s.r]
After all that, did it never occur to you that it might be...
...wait for it...
TIME TO MOVE?
I did ... even more back in the sticks ...
There is a lot of country in the COUNTRY, USA or CANADA.
4:05 p.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
On 05/23/2012 06:01 PM, Gene Buckle wrote:
Too true. ;)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
...long
distance from the major hubs.
Self-inflicted wounds hurt the most. :)
After all that, did it never occur to you that it might be...
...wait for it...
TIME TO MOVE?
I did ... even more back in the sticks ...
There is a lot of country in the COUNTRY, USA or CANADA.
12:19 p.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
On 5/23/2012 12:44 PM, ben wrote:
On 5/23/2012 7:39 AM, Keith Monahan wrote:
My parents had luckily subscribed to the Bell Atlantic "metro" package
of calling. A large number of local exchanges could be called for an
unlimited number of minutes for a fixed price.
Compuserve had several dialups in each area code with the idea that it
would be a local call from most customers. I believe CompuServe used
TYMNET's dialups to access their service. You would call up, type a
command, and you would connect across the network to compuserve.
I became an expert at a young age of identifying which exchanges were
located in what areas, and if they were included as "free" calls.
Eventually, I knew most of the "core" area-codes for each major city in
the US.
During my busiest of times, I would call about 90 local BBS's A DAY. I
didn't have a private line in the house --- so my parents/siblings would
yell at me, and I'd logoff.
And then there were services like PC Pursuit(offered via TELENET (not
telnet) ) --- but there were others (the names escape me) where you
dialed into their service and then could make outbound dialout calls to
various area-codes/exchanges for a flat rate.
And then there was the phreaking/950's/allnet(was it?), but that's a
story for another time. :)
Keith
I had the CoCo II, and a 300-baud radio shack
"direct connect" modem
that I bought for $22.00 on clearance around 1982.
Well I am glad you got to use it.
I tried that and found every where was long distance. Back then you
did not have the 5 cent a minute plan. That killed my net access
till about 10 years ago, and then it was dial up @ 56k for the last
few years. I now have higher speed internet, but still limited by
long distance from the major hubs.
Ben. 
23 May
23 May
12:01 p.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
The COCO II got me thinking? Did OS/9 for the 6809
support any kind
of network?
OS9 is so modular that there would be no problem in writing the device
manager and device drivers for a netwoek drvice. I think ethernet would
have had far to high a data rate, but there are plenty of slower
alternatices.
OS9 as supplied by Raido Shack did not have any such software included. I
wouldn't be suprised if other OS9 versions for other 6809 machines did.
-tony
22 May
22 May
1:57 p.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
In article <CAALmimkGWmQZyDt_JgW1bYfaKU1s=JTCuxanTRb0TxUZjJ5toQ at mail.gmail.com>,
Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> writes:
So who's going to
claim they read
mail on a VIC-20?
I'm reading mail on a telegraph machine.
Please avoid all characters that can't be encoded in MORSE code.
STOP.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book
<http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
2:27 p.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
So who's
going to
claim they read
mail on a VIC-20?
I'm reading mail on a telegraph machine.
Please avoid all characters that can't be encoded in MORSE code.
STOP. 
3:02 p.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
On May 22, 2012, at 4:27 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
MY K
IM-1
CANT
TAKE
IT A
NYMO
RE A
ND I
TS O
UT O
F ME
MORY
im a cockroach jumping on the keys when the humans go out for the night so i cant push
shift and i cant work the carriage return please dont hold this against me im sure you can
all put up with it if you were a cockroach too you would understand
So who's going to
claim they read
mail on a VIC-20?
I'm reading mail on a telegraph machine.
Please avoid all characters that can't be encoded in MORSE code.
STOP.
2:31 p.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
On Tue, 22 May 2012, Richard wrote:
In article <CAALmimkGWmQZyDt_JgW1bYfaKU1s=JTCuxanTRb0TxUZjJ5toQ at
mail.gmail.com>,
Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> writes:
TNX FER QSO.
73 DE KC7AFE.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a
server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck.
[Cipher in a.s.r]
So who's going to
claim they read
mail on a VIC-20?
I'm reading mail on a telegraph machine.
Please avoid all characters that can't be encoded in MORSE code.
23 May
23 May
11:20 a.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
Please avoid all characters that can't be encoded
in MORSE code.
_Which_ Morse code? The one originally used by Mr Samuel Morse is quite
differnt to the one used today. And I thought there were dot/dash
encodings for many quite odd chracters.
-tony
9:08 p.m.
New subject: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
There are many versions of telegraph signaling codes.
The main one is the code as (was/is) used by shipboard operators.
It was defined by international treaty. I have the book somewhere.
Japanese code for example was totally different as their language is based
on ideographs.
So any country that had a different alphabet would either have to use the
normal Latin characters or come up with their own system Lots did!
Regards
?
Rod Smallwood G8DGR
?
?????
?
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Tony Duell
Sent: 23 May 2012 19:20
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Line length [Re: VT220 focus]
Please avoid all characters that can't be encoded
in MORSE code.
_Which_ Morse code? The one originally used by Mr Samuel Morse is quite
differnt to the one used today. And I thought there were dot/dash
encodings for many quite odd chracters.
-tony
21 May
21 May
4:47 p.m.
On 05/21/2012 11:58 AM, Richard wrote:
You might find an adjustment procedure in the service
manual(s):
<http://manx.classiccmp.org/details.php/1,2958>
<http://manx.classiccmp.org/details.php/1,2961>
Interestingly, the title of those two web pages (in the browser window
title bar) says "PDP-11/70 Hardware Student Handouts". I'm familiar
with that document, and this ain't it. ;)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
12:44 p.m.
So I finally got my VT220 put back together! I have one I saved from the dumpster from a
plant floor,
but it was incredibly filthy. I disassembled it, cleaned it thoroughly, and put it back
together (over a
duration of 6+ months), and amazingly it still works! So, I had to hook it up to my
MacBook Air, just
for fun. Works like a charm, but characters on the left seem slightly fuzzier then
others. Maybe that's
just because I've been staring at the razor-sharp screens on my MacBook and iPhone
too long, and
the fact that this thing's 26 years old, but is there a way to sharpen them up a bit?
Even if not, it's still darn funny to have a physical terminal on my MacBook!
I thought htere wsa focus preset on the video.monitor PCB, the presets
are all labelled on the paper overleay.
However, AFAIK this affexcts the focus over the enitre screen. There is
no way to focus one wide rather than the other. Now, the focus anode
voltage is derriced from the flyback transforer, as are most of hte other
CRT votlages (some of which could also affect the focus). So if the focus
is much better at one side htan the otehr, it suggests one of those
votlages has horizontal-freqeuncy ripple on it. Which to me suggests a
defecive capacitor in one of the rectifier cirucits hung off the flyback.
-tony
4547
days inactive
4550
days old
53 comments
23 participants
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