4 Jan
2010
4 Jan
'10
12:08 a.m.
Was curious if anyone on the list was the person who drove up the price of the
4404 schematics.
I REALLY hate the fact you can no longer tell who you're bidding against.
FWIW, I'm NOT going after the unit itself.
5 Jan
5 Jan
5:22 a.m.
In article <4B413171.6090405 at bitsavers.org>,
Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> writes:
Was curious if anyone on the list was the person who
drove up the price of th
e
4404 schematics.
I see now that the owner "parted" everything out including unbundling
the manuals.
I thought about bidding on that, but I didn't realize it was a
complete system that was shotgun blasted all over ebay. Oh well.
I REALLY hate the fact you can no longer tell who
you're bidding against.
Yeah. And you can't contact the winner afterwards. This whole
business of hiding all the ebay ids has essentially killed ebay as a
community.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
10:52 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Richard
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:23 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Tek 4404 documentation on eBay
In article <4B413171.6090405 at bitsavers.org>,
Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> writes:
IMO that's why eBay did it: since we as a community would cooperate and (usually) not
bid things up to stupid prices, eBay wasn't making enough money (uh huh). I find that
I shop eBay a lot less now. (Hm, maybe my wife put them up to it?) -- Ian
Was curious if anyone on the list was the person
who drove up the
price of th
e
4404 schematics.
I see now that the owner "parted" everything out including unbundling
the manuals.
I thought about bidding on that, but I didn't realize it was a
complete system that was shotgun blasted all over ebay. Oh well.
I REALLY hate the fact you can no longer tell who
you're bidding
against.
Yeah. And you can't contact the winner afterwards. This whole
business of hiding all the ebay ids has essentially killed ebay as a
community.
--
11:26 p.m.
In article <FF6AB92D97A23A409701CDBF66F03FCD019DC2EDAD at 505fuji>,
Ian King <IanK at vulcan.com> writes:
IMO that's why eBay did it: since we as a
community would cooperate and (us=
ually) not bid things up to stupid prices, eBay wasn't making enough money =
(uh huh). I find that I shop eBay a lot less now. (Hm, maybe my wife put =
them up to it?) -- Ian=20
Well, knowing that I could contact other bidders or winners never
influenced how much I was willing to spend or how much I bid.
Instead, it allowed me to contact winners and share information with
them or ask them questions about what they ended up winning. Ebay
says that they undertook these measures because of fraud and abuse and
while fraud and abuse were (and are) occurring, obscuring identities
and preventing you from contacting people who bid on/won items is not
the only solution. They could have instituted a double-blind contact
system so that you could still contact winners, but neither party
would know the identity of the other in the communication unless they
chose to reveal it. In other words, they could have solved the
problem without fracturing the community. But essentially ebay has
decided that they are only a community of sellers and that buyers are
second class citizens.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
11:44 p.m.
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 6:26 PM, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
...?Ebay
says that they undertook these measures because of fraud and abuse...
?But essentially ebay has
decided that they are only a community of sellers and that buyers are
second class citizens.
My biggest fraud complaint was auctions that smelled very suspiciously
of shill bidding and other seller collusion. What the current scheme
does is hide that so efficiently that it's essentially not possible to
make an accusation of shill bidding stick. The result is a "fraud
free" system since it's impossible to prove fraud. eBay gets to claim
they cleaned things up and gets to collect higher fees as a side
effect (though it's my belief that the bigger benefit is improved PR
claims).
I have essentially stopped bidding on eBay, and in fact have only
bought one thing in two years, from an eBay store with BIN. It's not
worth the aggravation. Since eBay is still doing quite well
financially, they clearly aren't hurting from the changes they've made
over the past few years that screw buyers. I'm done, though.
-ethan
6 Jan
6 Jan
6:31 p.m.
My biggest fraud complaint was auctions that smelled
very suspiciously
of shill bidding and other seller collusion.
Shilling actually never was a big problem on Ebay. Yes, it happens
from time to time, just like a real auction. A fair
number of times
Ebay police will see it and kill it off before anyone sees it.
Sellers
see it with some kinds of fishy bid cancellation notices we get.
Ebay tightened up privacy simply to make a buck - or rather to get the
buck they were losing to deals outside their system after auctions
closed. In the old days, one saying was that when you sold something
on Ebay, you could sell two more. And most sellers did this.
--
Will
6:23 p.m.
They could have instituted a double-blind contact
system so that you could still contact winners, but neither party
would know the identity of the other in the communication unless they
chose to reveal it. ?In other words, they could have solved the
problem without fracturing the community.
And then then is a huge exodus of sellers from Ebay...
There has been talk for some time about Ebay doing exactly this, and
their is FIERCE opposition from the seller community. We like to know
who we are selling to. Sellers are pretty wide open to fraud, believe
it or not, and we have little faith in what Ebay and Paypal do to
fight it. We like to know that is we get defrauded, we can cut to the
chase and talk to USPS or the FBI without Ebay getting in the way.
Ebay actually is not doing that great. There are many available
solutions for plug and play web stores, completely independent of
Ebay. The only thing that keeps many sellers from jumping ship is the
huge marketing advantage Ebay provides.
--
Will
11:55 p.m.
In article <e1d20d631001061023v6b7e05b9kdd196acc8d387565 at mail.gmail.com>,
William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> writes:
Well, I wasn't thinking that it would be double-blind between winner
and seller, but between third-party observer and winner.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
They could
have instituted a double-blind contact
system so that you could still contact winners, but neither party
would know the identity of the other in the communication unless they
chose to reveal it. =A0In other words, they could have solved the
problem without fracturing the community.
And then then is a huge exodus of sellers from Ebay...
There has been talk for some time about Ebay doing exactly this, and
their is FIERCE opposition from the seller community.
12:49 a.m.
On 1/4/10 9:22 PM, Richard wrote:
I thought about bidding on that, but I didn't
realize it was a
complete system that was shotgun blasted all over ebay. Oh well.
It looked like the hard disk and controller were missing.
When he posted the first of the stuff, he said he would send a
list of what he had, which he never did.
The docs and software ended up with me.
5479
days inactive
5481
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8 comments
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participants (5)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
IanK＠vulcan.com -
legalize＠xmission.com -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com