14 Oct
2005
14 Oct
'05
2 p.m.
Hi All,
My current logic analyzers (an HP 64000 system and a Dolch LAM4850) have been forced into
early retirement and I'm looking for a replacement.
I need around 100 channels, not terribly fast (100-250 MHz -- faster is ok too, obviously)
and it might be handy to have the ability to plug in a scope card and/or a pattern
generator.
I've used the HP 16500 quite a bit (in a past life) but I have not had much experience
with other machines (Tektronix TLA7xx, HP 167x etc). There seems to be a lot of 16500
mainframes and cards available -- but they are getting old and they are pretty BIG. OK, so
an HP 64000 ain't exactly petite either so maybe size doesn't matter THAT much...
Anyhow, I'm looking for recommendations. Something that will give a few years of
service, and cost less than $4000 (or thereabouts). I have to keep these poor old
computers running somehow -- plus a few new developments from time to time.
Advice would be appreciated,
Pat
15 Oct
15 Oct
12:02 p.m.
Is your budget $400 or $4000? If you really meant $4000 you can get
some nice used equipment for that. I don't have experience with
Tektronix, just HP / Agilent.
If you don't need something portable I like 16700A mainframes. Not
having a bult-in screen is a bonus in some ways in that if the
built-in screen fails on newer portables it might not be cost
effective to replace just the screen, plus with an external monitor
you can run up to 1600x1200 vs 800x600 on some built-in screens. Also
you should be able to find a 16700A without a built-in screen for a
lot cheaper than a 16702A with a built-in screen. For $4000 you could
get a 16700A fully loaded with something like (5x) 16715A modules
(167MHz state / 333 MHz timing / 2MSa / 68 channel each card). I
would much rather use a 16700A than a 16500B/C. One drawback of a
16700A compared to a 16500B/C is that the 16700A doesn't support the
older and cheaper 16532A scope and 16520A pattern gen modules, only
the newer and more expensive and harder to find 16533A/16534A scope
and 16522A pattern gen modules.
If your budget is $400 then you can't really go wrong with a 16500B
with a 16550A or a 16555A or two. Yes they are older and big and
heavy, but they are built pretty tough and there are enough of them
out there that finding donor mainframes for parts if necessary should
be easy.
Just my $0.02 worth.
(If you're interested in a 16700A/003 loaded with 16712A and 16715A
modules and pods sets for less than $4000 send me mail offlist).
-Glen
17 Oct
17 Oct
4:19 p.m.
For those of us who are semi electronically inept (i.e. can replace
components and burn eeproms, but not much else) what is a logic analyzer,
what is it used for, and what situatios would require tyou to have one? (or
when would it be helpful?)
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Glen Slick
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 11:02 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Logic Analyzer Recommendations
Is your budget $400 or $4000? If you really meant $4000 you can get
some nice used equipment for that. I don't have experience with
Tektronix, just HP / Agilent.
If you don't need something portable I like 16700A mainframes. Not
having a bult-in screen is a bonus in some ways in that if the
built-in screen fails on newer portables it might not be cost
effective to replace just the screen, plus with an external monitor
you can run up to 1600x1200 vs 800x600 on some built-in screens. Also
you should be able to find a 16700A without a built-in screen for a
lot cheaper than a 16702A with a built-in screen. For $4000 you could
get a 16700A fully loaded with something like (5x) 16715A modules
(167MHz state / 333 MHz timing / 2MSa / 68 channel each card). I
would much rather use a 16700A than a 16500B/C. One drawback of a
16700A compared to a 16500B/C is that the 16700A doesn't support the
older and cheaper 16532A scope and 16520A pattern gen modules, only
the newer and more expensive and harder to find 16533A/16534A scope
and 16522A pattern gen modules.
If your budget is $400 then you can't really go wrong with a 16500B
with a 16550A or a 16555A or two. Yes they are older and big and
heavy, but they are built pretty tough and there are enough of them
out there that finding donor mainframes for parts if necessary should
be easy.
Just my $0.02 worth.
(If you're interested in a 16700A/003 loaded with 16712A and 16715A
modules and pods sets for less than $4000 send me mail offlist).
-Glen
7:48 p.m.
For those of us who are semi electronically inept (i.e. can replace
components and burn eeproms, but not much else) what is a logic analyzer,
what is it used for, and what situatios would require tyou to have one? (or
when would it be helpful?)
A logic analyser is basically an oscilloscope for digital signals.
They have a number of input chanels (anything from 3 to over 100) that
you connect to various points of the device under test. The logic state
of all those points is recorded every so often (say every 50 ns), the
time being selectable of course. You can then display those recorded
states as a timing diagram, and sometimes as a table of values (you
'tell' the analyser that channels 0-15 are to be displayed as a 4 digit
hex number, that channels 16 to 23 as a 2 digit hex number, etc). Some
analysers even let you load a disassembler program for a particular
processor at which point you can display the result as a dissassembly
listing [1]
You can set the analyser to trigger on a particular combination of inputs
(that's the simplest case, many analysers have very complex trigger
modes) and then either start recording when you get the trigger, stop
recording when you get the trigger, or carry one recording for about half
the analysers memory size on the trigger (so the trigger event occurs
aproximately in the middle of the data that's been recorded).
As to why you'd want one, well, if you have a complex digital circuit,
and you need to see what's going on (either because you've just designed
it and need to find out what mistake you've made this time, or because
it's stopped working), a logic analyser will let you look at all the
signals in said circuit at once and display the relationship between
them.
[1] Personally, I think this is a somewhat useless feature. Of much more
use is the ability to link the analyser to a computer (e.g. via GPIB,
RS232 or these days I guess USB) and transfer the recorded data. Then you
can attack it with any program you like.
-tony
4:44 p.m.
At 12:48 AM 10/18/05 +0100, you wrote:
Or the sample time can be based on other signals such as the phase of a
clock signal. That's REAL useful for picking data or address off of a
multiplexed bus. Many LAs also have a feature to look for and display
glitches (fast narrow pulses that shouldn't be there) on the signal lines.
That can be a real life saver as well.
Joe
You can then display those recorded
For those of us who are semi electronically inept (i.e. can replace
components and burn eeproms, but not much else) what is a logic analyzer,
what is it used for, and what situatios would require tyou to have one? (or
when would it be helpful?)
A logic analyser is basically an oscilloscope for digital signals.
They have a number of input chanels (anything from 3 to over 100) that
you connect to various points of the device under test. The logic state
of all those points is recorded every so often (say every 50 ns), the
time being selectable of course. states as a timing diagram, and sometimes as a table of
values (you
'tell' the analyser that channels 0-15 are to be displayed as a 4 digit
hex number, that channels 16 to 23 as a 2 digit hex number, etc). Some
analysers even let you load a disassembler program for a particular
processor at which point you can display the result as a dissassembly
listing [1]
You can set the analyser to trigger on a particular combination of inputs
(that's the simplest case, many analysers have very complex trigger
modes) and then either start recording when you get the trigger, stop
recording when you get the trigger, or carry one recording for about half
the analysers memory size on the trigger (so the trigger event occurs
aproximately in the middle of the data that's been recorded).
As to why you'd want one, well, if you have a complex digital circuit,
and you need to see what's going on (either because you've just designed
it and need to find out what mistake you've made this time, or because
it's stopped working), a logic analyser will let you look at all the
signals in said circuit at once and display the relationship between
them.
[1] Personally, I think this is a somewhat useless feature. Of much more
use is the ability to link the analyser to a computer (e.g. via GPIB,
RS232 or these days I guess USB) and transfer the recorded data. Then you
can attack it with any program you like.
-tony
15 Oct
15 Oct
1:41 p.m.
On Friday 14 October 2005 11:00, Pat Fitzpatrick wrote:
Hi All,
My current logic analyzers (an HP 64000 system and a Dolch LAM4850) have
been forced into early retirement and I'm looking for a replacement.
--snip--
Anyhow, I'm looking for recommendations. Something
that will give a few
years of service, and cost less than $4000 (or thereabouts). I have to keep
these poor old computers running somehow -- plus a few new developments
from time to time.
Advice would be appreciated,
I have several login analyzers (Dolch, Kontron, Philips) - and the one I like
the most is my Philips PM 3585/90. It is lightweight and easy to use. It has
96 Dual-analysis channels with 200 MHz timing and 50 MHz state. It supports
TTL, ECL or variable (-3V to +12V in steps of 100mv). Probe impedance is
200K/7pf. It has a 9" monochrome screen with 4 grey levels. It uses a
standard 3.5 diskette to save data, analysis setups, etc. The OS software and
manuals for it are often included in the sale price. My only gripe is that it
only has 2K deep acquisition memory (Although that seems to be sufficient for
debugging vintage systems).
eBay price range $150-$400 depending on number of probes, condition, etc.
Cheers,
Lyle
Pat
--
Lyle Bickley
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
Mountain View, CA
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
6859
days inactive
6862
days old
5 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
fireflyst＠earthlink.net -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
lbickley＠bickleywest.com -
Pat_Fitzpatrick＠pmc-sierra.com -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com