Hi, I joined a few days ago and feel I should introduce myself to others on this list. Some here may know me as tezza on Eric Klein's Vintage Computer Forums, a handle I also use on a few other vintage computer places around the Net. My interest in microcomputing history started about 11 years ago, when I created a website to archive some facts about my first micro. http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/system-80/index.htm However, in 2007 with the kids off my hands (and more room) I started collecting other micros. This was trigged by finding a OS Challenger 1P someone gave me in the late 1980s in the bottom of a wardrobe, turning it on and finding (astonishingly!) it went! Along with my old System 80, I now had the nucleus of a classic computer collection! There was no looking back after that! http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/collection/index.htm I am not a computer engineer, electronics technician or even associated with the computer industry in any way. Before I started collecting I knew nothing about electronics except you plugged something in at the wall, flicked a switch and (if you are lucky) it went. I had never been under the hood of a computer even my System 80. However, once I started collecting I found I HAD to learn something about the mystery of binary hardware in order to keep these machines up and running! See http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/index.htm . I've found the vintage/classic computer community to be very supportive and helpful with sharing knowledge in this regard. I've still got huge gaps in knowledge regarding the hardware side but it's improving all the time. My main motivation for collecting these old machines is to preserve a slice of history (particularly in the New Zealand context), and perhaps even display (and give talks about) the units when I retire years down the track. I like to have every machine working, with original manuals and decked out with software of the day. Let's face it, it's also great to have all those machines you used to covert back then! Now that I know more about it, I've (unexpectedly) come to enjoy the hardware side as well! Nothing is as satisfying as seeing a dead computer suddenly surge back to life after a fix. To me, a dead computer is just a collection of wires, silicon and plastic. They HAVE to be working, and my wife would claim I go to obsessive lengths to make them so. Anyway, that's all about me. I'm working full-time, have a number of other interests and may not get a chance to contribute too often. However, I hope to share classic computing thoughts/issues where I'm able. Terry Stewart (Tez) http://www.classic-computers.org.nz

Hi Terry, Welcome to the list, from another NZ classic-cmper. Whereabouts in NZ are you located? I also enjoy getting dead machines going; my current challenge is finding RAM for a Sega SC3000H. I was hoping someone might have some spare MCM4517s for sale (from memory, hopefully that number's right), not much luck in tracking them down at a decent cost yet. I'm not that great at troubleshooting dead machines, but I like the challenge. Mike On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 14:43:53 +1300, "Terry Stewart" <terry at webweavers.co.nz> wrote: I slice out those I've other

On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:43:57 +1300, "Terry Stewart" <terry at webweavers.co.nz> wrote: New Nope, the site's not mine - I'm completely unfamiliar with the Sega line of home computers, though I am pretty familiar with the game console lines. I used to have a fairly comprehensive collection of Sega games and consoles, all gone now. Well, I still have a Genesis CDX and a Genesis Nomad and games for them, but even those have to go. The SC3000 is practically identical to the SC1000 game console, but that doesn't help me much; it was one system I never owned. One main reason I'm wanting to get the 3000 sorted out is that it's in such fantastic condition otherwise; has its original box, is pretty much flawless cosmetically, has lots of accessories. I don't want to sell it not working because it's likely it won't be of much value to anyone that way, so may not be cared for well. If I fix it, I think it's likely to be treated a lot better. I'm really quite keen on helping preserve this stuff for the future, even if I no longer feel I can do that by providing much storage space for it! interested No, I haven't - I really should. I often find the politics/bitchiness that goes on in forums to be a bit off-putting though. For some reason, I don't find it bothers me nearly as much on mailing lists. I should join anyway, even if I only lurk! Mike

Wello, and welcome ot the list. WHen I first saw the pictutre of that on your web page, I thought 'That looks like what I calleda 'video genie'. Then I read the description.... ;-) I hate to start another one of my rants, but I hope you've learnt now that turnoing on a classic machine is not the first thing to try. I would strongly recoemdn a careful visual inspection and then testing the PSU on adummy load. It doesn't take long (at least not for most machines [1]), and it may save you having to powst a message hear askign for a dump of the ROMs for some rare machine [1] OK, in a couple of cases I have made up special PSU test boxes which takes a little longer... I think many of us have had that experince. I was interested to read your comments on the Sinclair QL. You basically have the same views as me. I feel that the machine was simply too ckeap, too much was cut out. IIRC, it sold for about \pounds 400 in the UK. If it has sold for \pounds 600, but had had a useable keyboard, a disk drive (even a 3" one), proper serial ports [1], and the like, then the machine might actually have been popular. As it was, it was pretty much unusable. [1] The QL has 2 seral port conenctors. But the data input lines are simple ORed together (!). The peripheral _has_ to look at the handshake lines, or data will either get corrupted by being mixed with data from the other peripheral, or it'll be sent to the wrongplace by the OS. Alas, many peripherals don't do that (and why should they, it violates the RS232 standard). But anyway... Err, yes... There are very few people prepared to fis a classic machine for you, and those that will tend to charge ;-). Fortunately, I came to computing from electronics (not that I have any qulaifications in either...), and have a fair idea of what goes on inside these machines. And contrary to certain comments here, I do try to share my knowledge. Many of us have shelf upon shelf of old servie manuals, data books, electroncis books, etc and are quite happy to look things up. Now that I certainly agree with. I rememebr tinkering with my PDP11/45 for over a month before I finally understood all the manuals, had it all put toghet and I turned the key (literally). I then toggled in my first program. OK, it didn't work, but it appeared the machine was basically working. Some time later I found I'd mis-understood one of the machine instructions, I fixed that and my program ran... I agree with that too. Computers intended to 'compute'. I've spent (and will spend in the future) many enjyable hours tracking down faults, finding spare parts, making spare parts, and generally getting these fine old machines to work again. -tony

I've never had to remove any sizeable creatures, fortuantely... And I tend to work on machines that are large enough to contain them. Ouch!. It depends on the power supply. You want to load it at a reasonable current, but not enough to damage it (obviously). So for the sort of SMPSU found in older desktop machines, I might load the 5V line (main output) at about 1-2A. So perhaps a 6V 12W car bulb. For some of the PSUs in my larger machines, I've used the 2 filamanets of a 6V headlamp bulb in parallel (say drawing 10A between them). In genreal, the other ouptus 'tag along' and don't need to be loaded, but there are exceptions to this. If an output has its own _swtiching_ regulator, then it probably does need a load. How do you know if it's has its own switching regualtor? Well, a scheamtic of the PSU will tell you, but they are hard to find for many machines, even when there is a service/technical manual. Often the PSU is a bought-in module, and no schematic is given. Even when it is, it may be misleading (the one in the TRS-80 M3/M4 manual is definitely incorrect!) If in doubt, it doesn't hurt to load all outputs. Perhaps about 0.5A for the +12/-12V outputs (A 12V 5W tailalamp bulb :-)). Of course if there's a label on the PSU giving the output current ratings, you cna use that as a guid. Use a load around half the maximum load given there. In amny machines the PSU is a separate model with a cable carring the outputs to the logic boards. This is the easiest type to test, just unplug that cable and conenct up the resistors. Then tun on the PSU and check the voltages across them. Some machines (I am thinking of some of the HPs I've worked on) have much of the PSU on its own PCB(s) which plugs into the machine's backplane. The problem comes when that backplane also carries a significat amount of logic in that you can't easily isolate the PSU outputs from that logic. In some cases I've made up test boxes with suitable connectors to plug the PSU board into, wirtes to resistors as a dummy load. That's probably only worth doing if you have several such amchines to work on. Probably the worst are machiens where the PSU regualtors are on the same PCB as the logic. better-grade stuff (again, some HP instruments are like this) have jumper links you cna remove to disconnct the PSU and thus test it withoug risking the logic. Others don't. I am not sure what yuou could do with a VIC20, say, other htan power it up and hope. Incidentally, my general procedure for bring up a newly acquired machine goes something like this (it can vary, of course, depending on the machine) Dismantle it as far as is sensible. I don't open HDAs, but just about everything else comes apart Visually inspect everythign. Look for bad connections, burnt parts, missing components, modfications, etc. If necessary, trace out full schematics (alas this often _is_ necessary for the machines I collect)., Dismantle the keyboard, clean keycaps and switch contacts. Dismantle, clean and oil fans and other mechancial bits that might need it. Obviously this depends a lot on the type of device. Assemble enough of the PSU/machine to test the former. Sart by doing an earth continuity test (at a suitably high current, I don't have a PAT tester, but testing at twice the fuse current should be OK for home use :-)), and then do an insulation test (at 1000V). Then apply mains and check the PSU outputs on dummy load. Check and align floppy drives on the exerciser (did I mention I have some odd test gear here :-)). A hint here. If you are goign to dismantle a (working-ish) floppy drive, connect it to the exerciser first and seek to cylinder 0. Then record the head position, e.g. by measuring the gap between the head carriage and the end stop with feeler gauges. When you put it back together, again seek to cylinder 0 and adjust so the gap is the same. This is not accurate enough to replace a proper alignment, but it will get the heads near enough that you can at least see the CE pattern on the alignment disk. Put the machine together, starting with a minimal configuration, even one that will fail power-on diagnostics in a known way. An example of that is that an HP9836 will give an error if it can't find a floppy controller board. But powering up without the floppy controller and getting that error is basically saying that part of the machine is working. Power up and see what happens. Now for the fun part. Track down and cure all the faults... A couple more tips : Get one (or more) of those divided plastic boxes (The Raaco ones are about the best we get over here). When you take the machine apart, use a compartment for each set of mounting hardware (casing screws; PSU fixings; mainboard fixings; etc). If necesary put a slip of paper in the compartment indentifying the hardware. When yuu come to put it back you'll know that the PSU screws are longer than the motherboard screws (or whatever). Don;t be afraid to make notes. I am old-fashioned, so use a paper notebook and pen to record things like which way round a connector goes (if it's not obvious). Or which way the fan points. Or... Some people take photographs for this. Not having a digital camera, I've not tried that method, but it sounds OK. ------------- Incidentally, I've been poking around your web site. I don't agree with all your views on the machines you mention, but why should I :-). A couple of points... Actually the serial and video connectors on the BBC micro _are_ standard DIN plugs. They're not hard to get in the UK. My moan is that the serial connector is stupidly wired. The point is that the qunicuncial (Form C 6 pin) DIN plub will fit either way up. But turning it over doesn't produce a sensible swap of signals. On the Tatung Einstein, turning the plug over swaps TxD with RxD and RTS with CTS, which is useful. I see you have dismantled an IBM colour monitor.... Been there, done that too.. You are lucky it wasn't the 5151 MDA monitor. On that one, you flip off the little coves on top and take out the screws under them (as on the colour one). Then put it face-down and undo the 2 screws going through the flange on the rear case into the front case (again, as on the colour one). There arre 6 more screws on the bottom, you undo _only_ the 4 on the rear case section. Then the rear case comes off. If you undo all 6, the heave mains transformer unit comes loose and hits the back of the CRT. fortuantely I did not discover that the hard way. -tony

Tony Duell [ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk] wrote: If you post something on Wikipedia it remains yours but you've given the world a licence to do whatever the creative commons lincence and/or GNU docs licence allows them to do. Which (I think) means that they can print it off in a book (as long as there's an appropriate attribuiton). I'm not that bothered so I've not read the licences in detail (but I would if I were going to copy articles wholesale and sell them ...). In general, if you write something on Wikipedia it looks like you're trying to make it available to the world, so it's no big surprise to me that someone has done that. That said, if I bought a book that turned out to be a reprint of one of more Wikipedia articles and it wasn't pretty clear up front that that was going to be the case, I'd certainly be miffed. But if I were the author of all (or some) of any of those articles, I don't think I'd be justified in complaining much. Antonio

At 02:08 PM 10/22/2010, Brent Hilpert wrote: I wonder how much money they're making. It sounds rather turn-key and fully automatable. - John

On 2010 Oct 22, at 1:05 PM, Richard wrote: I would guess as much, but when you look at all the links in a typical wikipedia article, including them in a book about the topic quickly becomes rather specious, granted I/we don't know how many or which of them are being included. Using the USS Dempsey as an example again, the wikipedia links include "Pacific Ocean", "aircraft" and "San Francisco, California"; and 2/96 pages is about 2% of root content.

On 2010 Oct 22, at 1:50 PM, Richard wrote: Where there are customer reviews of these 'books', all those I have come across indicate the 'editorial' contribution is non-existant or next to it. I suspect as John was suggesting it's probably all or mostly automated. Customer review of "Flywheel Energy Storage": .. at a simply amazing price. For two dollars fifty cents a page you get 96 pages of Wikipedia content. And nothing else. Not even edited before it's published. The chutzpah of the publishers beggars the imagination. Or read the customer reviews of this gem (one of their "books" is "Criticism of Wikipedia": http://www.amazon.com/Criticism-Wikipedia-Frederic-P-Miller/dp/ 6130056184/ref=tag_dpp_lp_edpp_ttl_in Scam.