21 Mar
2006
21 Mar
'06
11:51 a.m.
Hi,
Appearently something like video printers exist. They have "normal" video
inputs and are somehow able to extract a command to make a hardcopy from
the video signal. In my case the command is triggered by a button on an
edoscope control panel. Can anyone tell me how the trigger signal is
embedded in the video signal?
Thanks!
Bert
21 Mar
21 Mar
12:23 p.m.
Bert Thomas wrote:
Appearently something like video printers exist. They
have "normal" video
inputs and are somehow able to extract a command to make a hardcopy from
the video signal. In my case the command is triggered by a button on an
edoscope control panel. Can anyone tell me how the trigger signal is
embedded in the video signal?
Hmmm... the only video printers I have seen/used were
independant of the video source. That was the whole
point of their design (e.g., to grab a copy of the
image on a ComputerVision CAD system without having to
tinker with their software in any way).
I worked on such a device. The "video module" had a
high speed PLL (~200MHz... fast for 1985!) that would
sync to the scan rate and, from which, the sampling clock was
derived. So, you just waited for a vertical sync, vertical
blanking to go away and then start grabbing scan lines
(and repeat if the signal was interlaced).
The medical instruments I have seen work similarly -- they
run 4BNC or 5BNC to the "printer" and the printer just
grabs the image presented to it.
I'd be curious if there is a "standard" way to encode a
"capture command" in a video signal...
--don
12:24 p.m.
In article <442036AF.2060107 at DakotaCom.Net>,
Don Y <dgy at dakotacom.net> writes:
Hmmm... the only video printers I have seen/used were
independant of the video source.
Same here.
That was the whole
point of their design (e.g., to grab a copy of the
image on a ComputerVision CAD system without having to
tinker with their software in any way).
Oooh... ComputerVision. Another name I need to add to my ebay search
list! Not that much is likely to turn up there, but you never know.
It seems that bits and pieces of CAD workstations turn up on ebay, but
I've yet to see whole machines.
Anyone have a full-blown ComputerVision or Megatek CAD workstation
setup?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
30 Mar
30 Mar
5:24 a.m.
Don Y wrote:
Hmmm... the only video printers I have seen/used were
independant of the video source. That was the whole
point of their design (e.g., to grab a copy of the
image on a ComputerVision CAD system without having to
tinker with their software in any way).
It appears that all of you where right. I was pointed in the wrong
direction! The trigger signal is seperated from the video source.
Anyway, thanks!
Bert
21 Mar
21 Mar
3:38 p.m.
Bert Thomas wrote:
Hi,
Can anyone tell me how the trigger signal is
embedded in the video signal?
The Sony units I have seen, are have the Sony Mavica name, and have
a remote control bus that is used to trigger the prints. I would look for
a control line to the printer, from the video source, unless they had
a very specialized printer of some sort. There is the problem of having
the print signal embedded in your video format, if you had several printers
attached, having them all print.
A larger system may have not only the operating suite with a printer and
monitor, but might have other monitor, and printers in observation
galleries.
I would think that the docs would not want photos appearing on all of
them if the operating surgeon hit a button.
BTW the current suite goes to a cd, and the documentation is printed
on regular HP printers (or whatever). I just got poked and was quite
relieved not to see any surgical instruments with Microsoft logos on them.
I'd have clenched myself pretty hard if that had been in evidence.
I am counting hospitals and med groups now to see what the headless
PC's being deployed have, and so far, I am up to three hospitals, and
three med groups all running Windows 2k Profesional on their winterms.
The operating room hardware in my case was HP for the patient monitor,
running X (and I assume some sort of hpux underneath) and the endoscope
was Philips, running some sort of embedded system, that looked more like
X than any windows gui.
Don't need a blue screen with a probe inside you.
jim
4:21 p.m.
New subject: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question
BTW the current suite goes to a cd, and the
documentation is printed
on regular HP printers (or whatever). I just got poked and was quite
relieved not to see any surgical instruments with Microsoft logos on them.
Make sure you're not being operated on with a Stryker box. I was in the OR
yesterday and the Stryker case booted up into Win2K (it had a "control panel
cum monitor" on the front) before entering the imaging suite.
Come to think of it, the Geiger-on-steroids they use for sentinel lymph node
breast biopsies boots Win98. Also, the OB ultrasound from Philips I've used
recently does the same, but I've seen a few U/S devices that use X.
--
--------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ ---
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Evil has middle management? -- 8-bit Theatre #663 --------------------------
5:44 p.m.
New subject: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question
Patients have been killed by PDP-11 controlled medical devices:
http://sunnyday.mit.edu/papers/therac.pdf
(On topic too, this happened 20 years ago)
7:32 p.m.
New subject: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question
All,
On 3/21/06, Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com> wrote:
Patients have been killed by PDP-11 controlled medical
devices:
http://sunnyday.mit.edu/papers/therac.pdf
(On topic too, this happened 20 years ago)
Not quite on topic. I work for a company that manufactures
pharmaceutical drugs. A lot of the equipment now has a Windows HMI
(touch screen). All Windows does it print pretty pictures on the
screen and pass values to a PLC. The PLC does all the real work.
And yes, we Ido a lot of testing to show that the equipment does work.
Simon
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well, an engineer is not concerned with the truth; that is left to
philosophers and theologians: the prime concern of an engineer is
the utility of the final product."
Lectures on the Electrical Properties of Materials, L.Solymar, D.Walsh
22 Mar
22 Mar
4:02 a.m.
New subject: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question
Hi,
Glen Slick said:
Patients have been killed by PDP-11 controlled medical
devices:
http://sunnyday.mit.edu/papers/therac.pdf
(On topic too, this happened 20 years ago)
When I went to have my chest checked a few years ago (they had me
breathing radioactive gas...) the imaging was done by a beige
cube-shaped computer, about 18 inches on a side, using 8-inch floppies
(there were boxes of them on a shelf). Unfortunately I couldn't sneak
round the other side to see the front panel.
--
Cheers,
Stan Barr stanb at dial.pipex.com
The future was never like this!
1:41 p.m.
New subject: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question
When I went to have my chest checked a few years ago
(they had me
breathing radioactive gas...) the imaging was done by a beige
cube-shaped computer, about 18 inches on a side, using 8-inch floppies
(there were boxes of them on a shelf). Unfortunately I couldn't sneak
round the other side to see the front panel.
I don't think this is what was scanning you :) but there are a lot of old
Suns still out there as medical imaging devices. I think GE employed a number
of them during the late 1980s-early 1990s. Many are probably still in service.
I remember a few at Loma Linda.
--
--------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ ---
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Everyone is different. No two people are not on fire. -- Strong Bad #84 ----
3:04 p.m.
New subject: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question
Hi
Cameron Kaiser said:
It didn't have a Sun look, just a large painted metal cube, not quite
wide enough to take rack-mounted stuff - anyway it was connected to a
large, about 21-inch, white phosphor hi-res display by a thick coax
cable, I could follow that back to the box, and an anonymous keyboard.
It's very interesting to see your innards come up on a screen!
The radiation detector was about 2 foot diameter and finished in that
creamy-grey that Soviet optical equipment frequently came in - knowing
how our National Health Service is always so strapped for cash I wasn't
surprised it looked old and obsolete even then...(about 1999).
--
Cheers,
Stan Barr stanb at dial.pipex.com
The future was never like this!
When I went to
have my chest checked a few years ago (they had me
breathing radioactive gas...) the imaging was done by a beige
cube-shaped computer, about 18 inches on a side, using 8-inch floppies
(there were boxes of them on a shelf). Unfortunately I couldn't sneak
round the other side to see the front panel.
I don't think this is what was scanning you :) but there are a lot of old
Suns still out there as medical imaging devices. 
3:33 p.m.
New subject: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question
Up to a couple of years ago, GE Cat Scan systems and MRI machines were
using Sgi Octanes as a graphic terminal. Then about two - three years
ago, they ported their software to Windows and switched to dual Xeon
Dell workstations running Win2K.
One of my larger customers had three GE MRI's with Octanes and when
the lease was up and they switched to the newer Open MRI machines,
they all came with Dell Precision Workstations.
--
www.blackcube.org - The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers
www.blackcube.org/personal/index.html - Personal web page
4 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question)
In article <af4d09740603221233xf6d92n3964aacf8898f33d at mail.gmail.com>,
"James Rice" <james.rice at gmail.com> writes:
One of my larger customers had three GE MRI's with
Octanes and when
the lease was up and they switched to the newer Open MRI machines,
they all came with Dell Precision Workstations.
So what do hospitals do with all that gear that they've had in
pristine lab conditions for years when they upgrade and no longer need
it?
I've never seen any sort of surplus venue for this sort of thing.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
4:53 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question)
On 3/22/2006 at 2:00 PM Richard wrote:
So what do hospitals do with all that gear that
they've had in
pristine lab conditions for years when they upgrade and no longer need
it?
I've never seen any sort of surplus venue for this sort of thing.
They probably use the equipment for as long as practical, then pass it on
for shipment out-of-country. I recently got a diskette sample from a CT
scanner running CP/M 68K and very much still in use. You see the same
situation in high end computer-controlled machine tools.
Cheers,
Chuck
5:10 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question)
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 3/22/2006 at 2:00 PM Richard wrote:
Yup. A fair bit of "surplus" medical equipment here has been
shipped off to tsunami-stricken areas, other parts of the world
"less fortunate", etc.
It's rare that things actually "wear out". Rather, someone gets
an endowment/grant and opts to upgrade their equipment. Often,
there are strings attached to the original purchase which
prevent it from being sold, outright. So, the easy ways of
disposing of it are through auctions (cumbersome -- especially
if you only have a few pieces) or donations to charity (which
almost always "satisfy" any original stipulations made in the
purchase)
You want to be wary of medical surplus since you have no idea
*what* it was used for... X-(
So what do hospitals do with all that gear that
they've had in
pristine lab conditions for years when they upgrade and no longer need
it?
I've never seen any sort of surplus venue for this sort of thing.
They probably use the equipment for as long as practical, then pass it on
for shipment out-of-country. I recently got a diskette sample from a CT scanner running CP/M 68K and very much still in use.
You see the same
situation in high end computer-controlled machine tools.
6:05 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question)
In article <4421CB4A.1050600 at DakotaCom.Net>,
Don Y <dgy at dakotacom.net> writes:
You want to be wary of medical surplus since you have
no idea
*what* it was used for... X-(
What's the concern? A computer is a computer.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
6:14 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question)
All,
On 3/22/06, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
In article <4421CB4A.1050600 at DakotaCom.Net>,
Don Y <dgy at dakotacom.net> writes:
There is somewhat of a concern. You have no idea what had left a
residue in the equipment after the circulating air has been blown
through it. Quite a few of the powders at the site I work at are
specifically forumatled to alter your mental state - and not
necessarily in a good way.
Simon
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well, an engineer is not concerned with the truth; that is left to
philosophers and theologians: the prime concern of an engineer is
the utility of the final product."
Lectures on the Electrical Properties of Materials, L.Solymar, D.Walsh
You want to be wary of medical surplus since you
have no idea
*what* it was used for... X-(
What's the concern? A computer is a computer.
6:44 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus?
Richard wrote:
In article <4421CB4A.1050600 at DakotaCom.Net>,
Don Y <dgy at dakotacom.net> writes:
I'm thinking more in terms of *medical* equipment.
You never know what it was actually used for. Doing
some sort of research, etc. People aren't real
diligent about labeling things as biohazards.
I've seen small jars of mercury at auctions, etc.
Ooops!
You want to be wary of medical surplus since you
have no idea
*what* it was used for... X-(
What's the concern? A computer is a computer.
7:03 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus?
In article <4421E162.3080902 at DakotaCom.Net>,
Don Y <dgy at dakotacom.net> writes:
Richard wrote:
I have no interest in medical equipment :-)
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
In article <4421CB4A.1050600 at
DakotaCom.Net>,
Don Y <dgy at dakotacom.net> writes:
I'm thinking more in terms of *medical* equipment. You want to be wary of medical surplus since you
have no idea
*what* it was used for... X-(
What's the concern? A computer is a computer.
7:26 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus?
Richard wrote:
In article <4421E162.3080902 at DakotaCom.Net>,
Don Y <dgy at dakotacom.net> writes:
But many of these devices have lots of interesting electronics.
Unfortunately, those are often in the same environment as the
"field" electronics. So, whatever one was exposed to it is
likely that the *other* has been, as well.
E.g., I designed a device to track blood samples during
assays. I'd *love* to find one to add to my personal
collection. *But*, who knows *what* sorts of biohazards
it was exposed to! In theory, it's been sanitized, etc.
But, since you can't AUTOCLAVE the damn thing, I'm not
willing to take that risk just to satisfy my own personal
vanity... :-(
I once inherited an air pump from "surplus". Later,
discovered that the vacuum side of the pump had been used
to continuously sample air from a "biological experiment".
"Um, what was so *interesting* about the air that was
being sampled...?" :-(
The folks responsible for surplussing stuff are often
clueless about the safety issues involved. They just
want to move the stuff out....
Richard wrote:
I have no interest in medical equipment :-) In article <4421CB4A.1050600 at
DakotaCom.Net>,
Don Y <dgy at dakotacom.net> writes:
I'm thinking more in terms of *medical* equipment. You want to be wary of medical surplus since you
have no idea
*what* it was used for... X-(
What's the concern? A computer is a computer.
23 Mar
23 Mar
12:34 a.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question)
You want to be
wary of medical surplus since you have no idea
*what* it was used for... X-(
What's the concern? A computer is a computer.
1:28 a.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question)
On 3/22/2006 at 9:34 PM Cameron Kaiser wrote:
He means the ones with the rectal ultrasound
peripherals. In this case,
you
*know* where they've been.
Don't laugh--an endoscope could be a very handy thing to own, no matter
where it's been.
Cheers,
Chuck
2:13 a.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question)
> He means the ones with the rectal ultrasound
peripherals. In this case, you
> *know* where they've been.
Don't laugh--an endoscope could be a very handy
thing to own, no matter
where it's been.
Oh, they are handy. They're also a real pain in the butt (... pun intended
I guess) to maintain, particularly the ERCP scopes with the tip-mounted
elevators. Those break easily. Keeping all the optics and flex material in
good shape also keeps a lot of RNs and LVNs gainfully employed.
--
--------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ ---
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- "I don't think so," said Descartes, and he vanished.
-----------------------
8:37 a.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus?
At 12:28 AM 3/23/2006, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Don't laugh--an endoscope could be a very handy
thing to own, no matter
where it's been.
I've got a full Zeiss surgical stereo scope on a counter-balancing
stand that's quite helpful in small repairs. I've got surplus
dental oral camera that's handy for looking into small spaces.
The former was an amazing $100 at a surplus sale, the latter
was a freebie from my dentist when he upgraded.
- John
4:13 a.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question)
Hi,
Don Y said:
You want to be wary of medical surplus since you have
no idea
*what* it was used for... X-(
The piece of equipment I was scanned by had spent it's working life
surrounded by radioactive material. Admittedly in lead containers.
but even so, I suspect the hospital would be wary of disposing of it
to a memeber of the public.
--
Cheers,
Stan Barr stanb at dial.pipex.com
The future was never like this!
1 Apr
1 Apr
10:34 a.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question)
On Thu, 2006-03-23 at 09:13 +0000, Stan Barr wrote:
Don Y said:
Why? Radiation is like light - shine a flashlight at
something
(non-phosphoric, pedants! ;) and it doesn't continue glowing. Things
that have been exposed to radiation don't radiate.
-toresbe :)
You want to be wary of medical surplus since you
have no idea
*what* it was used for... X-(
The piece of equipment I was scanned by had spent
it's working life
surrounded by radioactive material. Admittedly in lead containers.
but even so, I suspect the hospital would be wary of disposing of it
to a memeber of the public. 
3 Apr
3 Apr
6:13 a.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question)
The piece of
equipment I was scanned by had spent [its] working life
surrounded by radioactive material. Admittedly in lead containers.
but even so, I suspect the hospital would be wary of disposing of it
to a memeber of the public.
Why? Radiation is like light - shine a flashlight at
something
(non-phosphoric, pedants! ;) and it doesn't continue glowing. Things
that have been exposed to radiation don't radiate. 
8:19 a.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus?
Tore S Bekkedal wrote:
On Thu, 2006-03-23 at 09:13 +0000, Stan Barr wrote:
Not all radiation is like that. An object exposed to a neutron source
can be rendered radioactive.
Peace... Sridhar
Don Y said:
Why? Radiation is like light - shine a flashlight at
something
(non-phosphoric, pedants! ;) and it doesn't continue glowing. Things
that have been exposed to radiation don't radiate. You want to be wary of medical surplus since you
have no idea
*what* it was used for... X-(
The piece of equipment I was scanned by had spent
it's working life
surrounded by radioactive material. Admittedly in lead containers.
but even so, I suspect the hospital would be wary of disposing of it
to a memeber of the public. 
10:40 a.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question)
Why? Radiation is like light - shine a flashlight at
something
(non-phosphoric, pedants! ;) and it doesn't continue glowing. Things
that have been exposed to radiation don't radiate.
I guess you did not do the silver dime experiment in physics lab.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
1:41 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical fieldwas Re: OT: video signal question)
Why? Radiation is like light - shine a flashlight at
something
(non-phosphoric, pedants! ;) and it doesn't continue glowing.
Cotton must be phosphoric then. Hit it with a strobe
unit and it will glow for a second or two afterwards.
John A.
2:20 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical fieldwas Re: OT: video signal question)
On 4/3/2006 at 1:41 PM John Allain wrote:
Cotton must be phosphoric then. Hit it with a strobe
unit and it will glow for a second or two afterwards.
Somewhere I read that natural cotton right off the plant doesn't
fluoresce--it's the whiteners added (laundry detergent even has them) that
are added to make the cotton WHITE that are the culprit.
Cheers,
Chuck
2:47 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus?
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Somewhere I read that natural cotton right off the
plant doesn't
fluoresce--it's the whiteners added (laundry detergent even has them) that
are added to make the cotton WHITE that are the culprit.
And here I thought it was my eyeballs glowing after the first strobe :)
Cheers,
Chuck
3:15 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus?
John Allain wrote:
It's the whitening agents in soap powder. Try it with a UV source -
even the el-cheapo LED torches off eBay. Then try just the soap powder.
Oh, and if you really want to kill a lot of time with a basin of hot
disinfectanty water, shine said UV source on the inside of your fridge.
Even if you think it's clean.
Gordon.
Why? Radiation
is like light - shine a flashlight at something
(non-phosphoric, pedants! ;) and it doesn't continue glowing.
Cotton must be phosphoric then. Hit it with a strobe
unit and it will glow for a second or two afterwards. 
6:18 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical fieldwas Re: OT: video signal question)
On Mon, Apr 03, 2006 at 01:41:26PM -0400, John Allain wrote:
You tried that experiment with cotton that has been washed, right?
Almost all detergents (especially those for washing white fabric) have
whiteners added to make the fabric look whiter than white: they trap UV
light and release white light with a slight blue tinge.
You just triggered those residual chemicals.
Plain cotton (as in: plucked from the plant and only washed with pure
water) should not exhibit this behaviour.
Regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
Why? Radiation
is like light - shine a flashlight at something
(non-phosphoric, pedants! ;) and it doesn't continue glowing.
Cotton must be phosphoric then. Hit it with a strobe
unit and it will glow for a second or two afterwards.
11:20 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical fieldwas Re: OT: video signal question)
You tried that experiment with cotton that has been
washed, right?
Almost all detergents (especially those for washing white fabric)
have whiteners added [...]
One more good reason to do your laundry with soap instead of detergent.
(Laundry soap is not trivial to find. But it does exist.)
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
4 Apr
4 Apr
2 a.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical fieldwas Re: OT: video signal question)
On 4/3/2006 at 11:20 PM der Mouse wrote:
One more good reason to do your laundry with soap
instead of detergent.
(Laundry soap is not trivial to find. But it does exist.)
When my mom used did laundry with Gentle Fels Naptha soap, she'd always add
bluing to the whites. I never determined if bluing fluoresces.
AFAIK, you can simply grate Fels Naptha bar soap for your laundry use.
Cheers,
Chuck
3 Apr
3 Apr
6:42 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical fieldwas Re: OT: video signal question)
Why? Radiation is like light - shine a flashlight at
something
(non-phosphoric, pedants! ;) and it doesn't continue glowing.
So,... radiation is not contagious :-)
6:58 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical fieldwas Re: OT: video signal question)
On Mon, 2006-04-03 at 15:42 -0700, Fred Cisin wrote:
Well not if you talk about irradiated people (ie one irradiated person
can't irradiate another except in specific ways). :-)
However, one radiation source can make another object radioactive (under
the right conditions). Had loads of "fun" doing this with a "neutron
cannon". You can make all sorts of stuff "radioactive" that way!
Other techniques are used (but essentially the same) for creating
radio-pharmaceuticals (ie take a material and bombard it with the
appropriate type of radiation...neutrons, alpha, gamma...and you'll end
up with a radioactive version of it...or something related).
--
TTFN - Guy
Why? Radiation
is like light - shine a flashlight at something
(non-phosphoric, pedants! ;) and it doesn't continue glowing.
So,... radiation is not contagious :-)
22 Mar
22 Mar
6:51 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question)
They probably use the equipment for as long as
practical, then pass it on
for shipment out-of-country.
"Out-of-country" are the key words - getting used equipment recertified
for hospital use in the US is very costly, and mostly not worth it.
A fair amount of the stuff gets destroyed, so it does not get back into
circulation. Frankly, I am not that opposed to this. Remember the faulty
pacemakers with flawed semiconductors that Anchor surplus sold...
There is some cool stuff. At a hamfest about 15 years ago I saw a guy with
a trailer FULL of IBM system/9000s. Did I get one? NOOOOOOO....
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
10:23 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question)
We bought a fair amount of equipment from the hospitals in the
Northwest in the 1990s. Most hospitals here have private auctions,
some on a regular schedule with no advertising. You need to inquire
with the property manager of the hospital about how they get rid of
their surplus. Dealers usually get the pick of the bigger equipment
first ( a good dealer will pay more). I got most of my HP 9825s from
hospital sales (used as instrument controllers)
Hospitals, especially university or large hospitals generate lots of
computer, phone, office equipment, lab maintenance and supplies
surplus.
You can find some classic pieces inside.
we once got a CO2 laser that was driven by a nice little PDP 11/23
with a qbus floppy controller with two 8 inch floppy drives attached.
There are concerns about getting contaminated equipment. Mostly it is
related to equipment that is processing, testing or holding blood.
Good dealers are concerned about this.
We also used to buy from Hanford in Eastern Washington and had to be
careful to make sure we didn't get anything radioactive. I know of
equipment dealers it happened to.
--
Paxton Hoag
Astoria, OR
USA
4:59 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus?
Richard wrote:
In article
<af4d09740603221233xf6d92n3964aacf8898f33d at mail.gmail.com>,
"James Rice" <james.rice at gmail.com> writes:
I keep an eye on this site since some of the items are local (austin,
but dfw, san antonio, houston too) and there is some stuff of
interesting to me, but never so much that I've acted on it. It seems
like the bulk of what they auction is from medical/lab use:
http://www.shattuck.com/
One of my larger customers had three GE MRI's
with Octanes and when
the lease was up and they switched to the newer Open MRI machines,
they all came with Dell Precision Workstations.
So what do hospitals do with all that gear that they've had in
pristine lab conditions for years when they upgrade and no longer need
it?
I've never seen any sort of surplus venue for this sort of thing.
5:32 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question)
Most hospitals don't purchase equipment of that type, they lease it.
Then it's returned to GE Capital, Copelco/Citibank or one of the
otther medical equipment leasing specialists for disposal. I offered
myself to the GE rep as a recycler of his off-lease Sgi workstations
but my services were politely declined.
On 3/22/06, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
So what do hospitals do with all that gear that they've had in
pristine lab conditions for years when they upgrade and no longer need
it?
I've never seen any sort of surplus venue for this sort of thing.
--
--
www.blackcube.org - The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers
www.blackcube.org/personal/index.html - Personal web page
5:55 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question)
At 2:00 PM -0700 3/22/06, Richard wrote:
I've never seen any sort of surplus venue for this
sort of thing.
There was a scrapper here that got a fair amount of the stuff, helped
that he had contacts inside the Hospital that it was coming out of.
My Dec Pro380 that I got from him came out of a Hospital IT
department, though most of the stuff was medical HW.
Zane
--
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
6:19 p.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question)
--- Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
In article
<af4d09740603221233xf6d92n3964aacf8898f33d at mail.gmail.com>,
"James Rice" <james.rice at
gmail.com> writes:
I read that China has the highest growth rate for
MRI's purchases (curiously, in the USA the biggest
medical growth rate is in herbal medicines) I assume
this is where some of them end up
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
One of my larger customers had three GE MRI's
with
Octanes and when
the lease was up and they switched to the newer
Open MRI machines,
they all came with Dell Precision Workstations.
So what do hospitals do with all that gear that
they've had in
pristine lab conditions for years when they upgrade
and no longer need
it?
1 Apr
1 Apr
10:37 a.m.
New subject: Hospital surplus? (was: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question)
On Wed, 2006-03-22 at 14:00 -0700, Richard wrote:
In article
<af4d09740603221233xf6d92n3964aacf8898f33d at mail.gmail.com>,
"James Rice" <james.rice at gmail.com> writes:
I've got a lead on a PDP-11/73 and an LSI-11.03 which are both in active
use at a Norwegian research site, in controlling two electron
microscopes.
Both have dual 8" floppies and are being replaced by 'scopes using Dell
workstations.
-toresbe :)
One of my larger customers had three GE MRI's
with Octanes and when
the lease was up and they switched to the newer Open MRI machines,
they all came with Dell Precision Workstations.
So what do hospitals do with all that gear that they've had in
pristine lab conditions for years when they upgrade and no longer need
it? 
22 Mar
22 Mar
4:05 p.m.
New subject: OT: Microsoft in the medical field was Re: OT: video signal question
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Stan Barr wrote:
The radiation detector was about 2 foot diameter and
finished in that
creamy-grey that Soviet optical equipment frequently came in - knowing
how our National Health Service is always so strapped for cash I wasn't
surprised it looked old and obsolete even then...(about 1999).
Funny story re: soviet optical equipment:
The soviet military would paint equipment "military green" to distinguish
it from civillian articles and discourage theft. In the 80s, my dad worked
for a Chicago based company that (among other things) exported soviet
optics, much of which were purchased from the military surplus, or from
military suppliers. It was nigh impossible to export an article painted
"military green", since soviet customs assumed it was stolen or that
exporting it was not allowed. Solution: hire minimum wage workers in
Moscow to paint everything white before export :-)
Alexey
21 Mar
21 Mar
4:29 p.m.
In article <44206443.60606 at msm.umr.edu>,
jim stephens <jwstephens at msm.umr.edu> writes:
Don't need a blue screen with a probe inside you.
No, you need a kernel panic.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
7:34 p.m.
In article <442097E7.2040504 at gjcp.net>,
Gordon JC Pearce <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> writes:
Richard wrote:
Better hope he didn't leave that null device inside you while he was
poking around.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
In article <44206443.60606 at
msm.umr.edu>,
jim stephens <jwstephens at msm.umr.edu> writes:
Just so long as you don't dump core. Don't need a blue screen with a probe inside
you.
No, you need a kernel panic.
7:43 p.m.
Richard wrote:
Just so long as you don't dump core.
Better hope he didn't leave that null device inside you while he was
poking around.
I have alerted the wife to beware the Cartman anal probe. Also the
coredump took place
the day before. and not due to Microsoft Sw either....
Don't need a blue screen with a probe inside
you.
No, you need a kernel panic.
6684
days inactive
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days old
49 comments
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