5 Nov
2003
5 Nov
'03
8:27 a.m.
I have a couple questions about ebay/paypal, and figured some folks on the
list here might know the "straight scoop".
1) If some seller sets up an auction as private (yet it still shows up on
the listings) - the deal is that no one can see who bid on it, or who is
currently the high bidder. In this set up, how can I be sure the seller
isn't bidding on his own auction to drive up the price? He's taunting me I
bet demmit! heh
2) Hypothetically, say I sell an item on Ebay for... oh... $2500.00. The guy
could pay me via paypal, or he could send me a cashiers check. Does Paypal
report transactions to the IRS? Or more importantly, if I sell items on ebay
all year... do I have to track all that and report to IRS? Never really
thought of it cause it probably isn't much money anyways. But I am curious
if ebay and/or paypal reports to the IRS.
Jay West
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
5 Nov
5 Nov
10:32 a.m.
2) Hypothetically, say I sell an item on Ebay for...
oh... $2500.00. The guy
could pay me via paypal, or he could send me a cashiers check. Does Paypal
report transactions to the IRS? Or more importantly, if I sell items on ebay
all year... do I have to track all that and report to IRS? Never really
thought of it cause it probably isn't much money anyways. But I am curious
if ebay and/or paypal reports to the IRS.
This is a very good question. Unfortunately I think there are two separate answers, with
the primary one being you need to talk to someone that professionally prepares taxes. The
other answer, is that this is going to vary from state to state.
Having said that, I suspect this falls under "Hobby Income", and that if you
don't make a profit it might not be taxable. At least I hope this is the case, as
things are almost to the point that my wife can start selling chunks of my collection off,
and I'm pretty sure that in the long run I won't make a profit.
Zane
--
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
1:31 p.m.
At 01:32 PM 11/5/03 -0800, Zane wrote:
separate answers,
with the primary one being you need to talk to someone
that professionally prepares taxes. The other answer, is that this is
going to vary from state to state.
2)
Hypothetically, say I sell an item on Ebay for... oh... $2500.00. The guy
could pay me via paypal, or he could send me a cashiers check. Does Paypal
report transactions to the IRS? Or more importantly, if I sell items on ebay
all year... do I have to track all that and report to IRS? Never really
thought of it cause it probably isn't much money anyways. But I am curious
if ebay and/or paypal reports to the IRS.
This is a very good question. Unfortunately I think there are two
Having said that, I suspect this falls under "Hobby Income", and that if
you don't make a profit it might not be taxable.
The problem is that with the IRS you have to PROVE that you didn't make a
profit. If they get something from PayPal (or anywhere else) that shows
that you sold something for money (note that I didn't say profit!), then
you need to have records showing that it's cost and your expenses are equal
or greater than the income from the sales or else you owe taxes on it. In
addition to the possible taxes you may (will!) also be charged interest AND
penalties AND you could even be charged with income tax evasion!
The IRS <B> IS </B> monitoring E-bay sales!!!!!!! (Note emphasis on
IS.) They may or may not be getting Paypal records but they ARE monitoring
E-bay sales via the internet. I know a lawyer that has a client that HAS
already been called in by the IRS and asked about his E-bays sales. (Yes
he's in DEEP Doo-Doo!) This was several years ago so it's already
happening. I've been told that the IRS has a LARGE computer system by the
name of Carnivore or some such that's used to monitor all of the E-bay
transactions. Hint: I keep records of my travel and expenses (including
meals) when I'm out scrounging and my legal deductions are ALWAYS more than
what I make off of the stuff that I sell. We can (and do) use that loss to
offset our regular 9-5 job income. It normally knocks a couple of k off of
our income which translates to $1000 to $1200 less taxes that we have to pay.
Joe
At least I hope this is the case, as things are almost to the point that
my wife can start selling chunks of my collection off, and I'm pretty sure
that in the long run I won't make a profit.
Zane
--
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
7:02 p.m.
The problem is that with the IRS you have to PROVE
that you didn't make a
profit. If they get something from PayPal (or anywhere else) that shows
that you sold something for money (note that I didn't say profit!), then
you need to have records showing that it's cost and your expenses are equal
or greater than the income from the sales or else you owe taxes on it. In
addition to the possible taxes you may (will!) also be charged interest AND
penalties AND you could even be charged with income tax evasion!
I rather figured this was the case, and was part of why I recommended getting professional
advice. Any idea if storage costs go towards showing that you didn't make a profit?
Unfortunately in my case, I don't have receipts that show how much I paid for all this
junk, and I sure can't remember in most cases.
And yes, I will end up getting professional advice in the long run on this.
Zane
--
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
6 Nov
6 Nov
12:32 a.m.
At 10:02 PM 11/5/03 -0800, you wrote:
getting
professional advice. Any idea if storage costs go towards showing
that you didn't make a profit?
It should be, but the same rules woiuld apply that applies to a home
business; the area would have to be used exclusively for your hobby
business. The costs for a storage unit should apply but you can't charge
off the costs of your living room (unless you use it exclusively and IRS
would probably make you prove that). My living room would qualify :-( but I
don't claim it.
Unfortunately in my case, I don't have receipts that show how much I paid
for all this junk, and I sure can't remember in most cases.
I have the same problem. I buy most of my stufff in big lots so costs is
minimal. But the expenses and travel are usually a lot more than the item
costs.
Joe
The problem
is that with the IRS you have to PROVE that you didn't make a
profit. If they get something from PayPal (or anywhere else) that shows
that you sold something for money (note that I didn't say profit!), then
you need to have records showing that it's cost and your expenses are equal
or greater than the income from the sales or else you owe taxes on it. In
addition to the possible taxes you may (will!) also be charged interest AND
penalties AND you could even be charged with income tax evasion!
I rather figured this was the case, and was part of why I recommended
And yes, I will end up getting professional advice in the long run on this.
Zane
--
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
6:12 a.m.
I'm somewhat hesitant to enter this "fray", but since I've for many
years been
a collector of vintage systems, here goes:
My business is consulting (computer design, architecture, patent matters, and
technical due-diligence for VCs) - so I've had my own "S" Corp. since 1986
(Minimum tax - $800/year in CA).
Every item (including vintage computers, etc.) that I buy or sell is entered
into my accounting system. Every dollar I earn using my vintage systems in
my work or for resale goes into that system. At the end of the year my CPA
creates a balance sheet, P&L, etc. (It costs about $1,500/year for tax
accounting - which is deductable). I take advantage of every legal means to
reduce my taxes - and I keep impeccable records.
I've been audited twice - and came out totally clean (well almost - once the
IRS concluded that I didn't declare $300 in income - but they let it drop
because my records otherwise were impeccable).
So if you're willing to do the necessary paperwork - and have your "hobby"
as
a collector work for you to make $, you can have a win-win in terms of
expensing collectables.
I've also considered forming a 501(3c) non-profit corporation - but so far
that hasn't been necessary - as the utililization of my collectables in
conjunction with my business has just about always turned a (taxable) profit.
Cheers,
Lyle
On Thursday 06 November 2003 03:32, Joe wrote:
At 10:02 PM 11/5/03 -0800, you wrote:
getting professional advice. Any idea if storage costs go towards showing
that you didn't make a profit?
It should be, but the same rules woiuld apply that applies to a home
business; the area would have to be used exclusively for your hobby
business. The costs for a storage unit should apply but you can't charge
off the costs of your living room (unless you use it exclusively and IRS
would probably make you prove that). My living room would qualify :-( but I
don't claim it.
Unfortunately in my case, I don't have receipts that show how much I paid
for all this junk, and I sure can't remember in most cases.
I have the same problem. I buy most of my stufff in big lots so costs is
minimal. But the expenses and travel are usually a lot more than the item
costs.
Joe
>And yes, I will end up getting professional advice in the long run on
> this.
>
> Zane
>
>--
>--
>
>| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
>| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
>|
>| | Classic Computer Collector |
>
>+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
>
>| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
>| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
>| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
--
Lyle Bickley
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
Mountain View, CA 94040
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
The
problem is that with the IRS you have to PROVE that you didn't make
a profit. If they get something from PayPal (or anywhere else) that
shows that you sold something for money (note that I didn't say
profit!), then you need to have records showing that it's cost and your
expenses are equal or greater than the income from the sales or else you
owe taxes on it. In addition to the possible taxes you may (will!) also
be charged interest AND penalties AND you could even be charged with
income tax evasion!
I rather figured this was the case, and was part of why I recommended
1:25 a.m.
At 10:02 PM 11/5/03 -0800, you wrote:
getting
professional advice. Any idea if storage costs go towards showing
that you didn't make a profit? Unfortunately in my case, I don't have
receipts that show how much I paid for all this junk, and I sure can't
remember in most cases.
The problem
is that with the IRS you have to PROVE that you didn't make a
profit. If they get something from PayPal (or anywhere else) that shows
that you sold something for money (note that I didn't say profit!), then
you need to have records showing that it's cost and your expenses are equal
or greater than the income from the sales or else you owe taxes on it. In
addition to the possible taxes you may (will!) also be charged interest AND
penalties AND you could even be charged with income tax evasion!
I rather figured this was the case, and was part of why I recommended
And yes, I will end up getting professional advice in the long run on this.
I don't think you need professional advice. The IRS rules and
instructions are pretty clear. If it is only a hobby then there isn't much
money involved and I doubt that it's worth the costs of "professional"
advice. I'd talked to a couple of the "professionals" and frankly they
didn't seem to know what they were talking about. Their advice directly
contradicted the IRS instructons and they couldn't answer at least half of
my questions. My advice, just follow what the IRS instructions say
regarding hobby businesses unless it's a full time business or there's lots
of money involved.
Joe
Zane
--
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
2:22 a.m.
Quothe Joe, from writings of Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 07:25:10AM -0500:
At 10:02 PM 11/5/03 -0800, someone wrote:
I rather figured this was the case, and was part of why
I recommended
getting professional advice. Any idea if storage costs go towards showing
that you didn't make a profit? Unfortunately in my case, I don't have
receipts that show how much I paid for all this junk, and I sure can't
remember in most cases.
If all else fails in dire straits, surely the person in question has
enough different printers, and printing calculators, in their
collection, that can produce different types of print, from dot-matrix
to thermal and laser, as well as aged paper, to fudge a few receipts
if necessary. ;-)
--
Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
4:17 a.m.
At 08:16 AM 11/6/03 -0500, R. D. Davis wrote:
Quothe Joe, from writings of Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at
07:25:10AM -0500:
At 10:02 PM 11/5/03 -0800, someone wrote:
Hmm. This got me thinking. I often find paper work with this stuff
showing it's original costs (in the tens of thousands of dollars!) or it's
estimated used value (still in the $1000 range). I wonder if the IRS would
accept that instead of the reciept showing that I paid $2 for it :-)
Joe
I rather figured this was the case, and was part
of why I recommended
getting professional advice. Any idea if storage costs go towards showing
that you didn't make a profit? Unfortunately in my case, I don't have
receipts that show how much I paid for all this junk, and I sure can't
remember in most cases.
If all else fails in dire straits, surely the person in question has
enough different printers, and printing calculators, in their
collection, that can produce different types of print, from dot-matrix
to thermal and laser, as well as aged paper, to fudge a few receipts
if necessary. ;-) 
4:33 a.m.
On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Joe wrote:
Hmm. This got me thinking. I often find paper work
with this stuff
showing it's original costs (in the tens of thousands of dollars!) or it's
estimated used value (still in the $1000 range). I wonder if the IRS would
accept that instead of the reciept showing that I paid $2 for it :-)
Well, if you
have YOUR name on that paperwork, that could work.
I try to keep a record of what I get, when I got it, what *I* paid
for it, its original value, and "current" value (at the time I got
it), and (in code) whom I got it from.
(under Dutch law, I dont have to give out that last info to the IRS,
unlike in the US)
This is mostly for myself, a reminder of what the hobby has cost me
"so far". If I'd ever donate it, or start an official exhibit of
it, that'd be the declared value for tax/writeoff purposes.
As an anecdote, earlier this year my finances manager (yes, I have
one..) did a printout of that stuff. He went over it, and came to
me, pointing at the paper. He just looked at me, did a *deep*
sigh, and just spoke: "dude! ....."
*grin*
He's also my dad, and the one who's gonna have to pack all that
stuff for moving to the U.S. .... ;-)
Still. Having such records can help you keep (or re-gain) sanity
when it comes to this hobby we have. If you see what all you have
gotten the past, say, year or so, and what amount of cash you spent
on it, that can be a firm slap in the face...
Cheers,
Fred (back to cleaning the new LA424 ;-)
6:24 a.m.
New subject: Spending was: ebay question
On Thursday 06 November 2003 10:33, Fred N. van Kempen wrote:
I try to keep a record of what I get, when I got it, what *I* paid
for it, its original value, and "current" value (at the time I got
it), and (in code) whom I got it from.
This is mostly for myself, a reminder of what the hobby has cost me
"so far". If I'd ever donate it, or start an official exhibit of
it, that'd be the declared value for tax/writeoff purposes.
Still. Having such records can help you keep (or re-gain) sanity
when it comes to this hobby we have. If you see what all you have
gotten the past, say, year or so, and what amount of cash you spent
on it, that can be a firm slap in the face...
I still figure I've spent more on the shelves to hold the collection than
the collection itself, if I factor in the cost of the renovations now
under way. I still resist paying for machines, I figure that as long as
the current owner thinks it has value then they won't be put out on the
curb.
--
Ottawa, Canada
Collector of vintage computers
http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600
11:50 a.m.
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12:31 p.m.
New subject: Spending was: ebay question
On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Tony Duell wrote:
I wish I could say the same, but people who have been here know
this is not the case, so I'd be lying ...
--f
I still figure
I've spent more on the shelves to hold the collection than
I _know_ I've spent more on connectors, cable, magnetic media,
replacement chips, etc than I've spent on classic computer systems....
12:37 p.m.
New subject: Spending was: ebay question
I still figure
I've spent more on the shelves to hold the collection than
the collection itself, if I factor in the cost of the renovations now
I _know_ I've spent more on connectors, cable, magnetic media,
replacement chips, etc than I've spent on classic computer systems.... 
12:43 p.m.
New subject: Spending was: ebay question
On Thursday 06 November 2003 17:37, Zane H. Healy wrote:
In my case, and I suspect several others, I've spent more on storage fee's,
than I have on my collection itself. For that mater, I think I've probably
spent more on documentation than the collection itself (unless you count a
pair of the Alpha's, at which point I'm not sure).
Zane
i spent 10 times the price($1) that i paid for my Sun IPX for a Transceiver
(aui to twisted pair) to connect to my network, and another $10 for a serial
null-modem adapter from radioshack.. no i can't solder cables to save my
life, maybe if i had a $50 temp controlled iron i could.. but that's more
money than the adapter :)
James
I still figure I've spent more on the shelves to
hold the collection
than
the collection itself, if I factor in the cost of the renovations now
I _know_ I've spent more on connectors, cable, magnetic media,
replacement chips, etc than I've spent on classic computer systems....
5:07 p.m.
New subject: Spending was: ebay question
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12 Nov
12 Nov
6:43 p.m.
New subject: Cheap pseudo temp. controlled soldering (was: Spending)
Regarding temperature controlled soldering irons: if you don't want
to, or can't, spend the money on a temperature controlled soldering
iron, a light socket and a variety of edison-base incandescent light
bulbs in various wattage ratings, to insert as needed, in series with
a soldering iron might help. :-)
--
Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
6:39 p.m.
New subject: Cheap pseudo temp. controlled soldering (was: Spending)
R. D. Davis wrote:
Regarding temperature controlled soldering irons: if
you don't want
to, or can't, spend the money on a temperature controlled soldering
iron, a light socket and a variety of edison-base incandescent light
bulbs in various wattage ratings, to insert as needed, in series with
a soldering iron might help. :-)
The side effect could be useful too, "Look Ma , I can see what I am
doing, Now!
13 Nov
13 Nov
12:21 p.m.
New subject: Cheap pseudo temp. controlled soldering (was: Spending)
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1:39 p.m.
New subject: Cheap pseudo temp. controlled soldering (was: Spending)
Tony Duell wrote:
Totally OT, but...
In the 1950s, one of the UK electronics magazines had a project for a
'combined radio and table lamp'. It was a conventional series-string
heater valve radio, but the heater dropping resistor was a light bulb in
a socket on top of the case. You could fit a normal lampshade to the bulb
if you wanted...
The power swtich had 3 positions. Off (obvious). Light (which
disconnected the radio HT (B+) supply and shorted out the heaters, so the
bulb was directly across the mains). And radio, which ran the bulb in
series with the heaters, so it wa a bit dimmer, but still gave out light.
Jerome Fine replies:
Then maybe this qualifies for some geek points - how many?
Around 1967, the old black and white TV blew the power
transformer. BUT, when I was unable to find a suitable
replacement, I used one that needed an extra dropping
resistor. Not being able to find a suitable HIGH wattage
resistor, I was able to locate one that solved the problem.
I screwed it into a socket held just underneath the TV
which had been wired into the output circuit of the power
transformer. What did I screw in - a 100 watt light bulb
that also was able to serve as a TV LIGHT!
The voltage was not quite 110 volts, probably around 80 volts,
so the output of the bulb was a bit less than normal. After it
was used for a few years, I think the bulb had to be replaced -
or of course the TV would not work.
It was so long ago (36 years!) that I almost completely forgot!
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.
6:33 a.m.
New subject: Cheap pseudo temp. controlled soldering (was: Spending)
Quothe John Allain, from writings of Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 09:18:06AM -0500:
For that matter why not a light dimmer switch for $12
For one thing, spare light bulbs and a spare socket from the junk box
costs less... and with the economy the way is, for a lot of us who
once worked in the computer field and got displaced by cheap slave
labor, such as H1B visa holders, overseas outsourcing and the
long-hours/low-wage kiddies (recent college/trade-school grads who
don't get paid to think for themselves), every penny counts.
--
Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
12:19 p.m.
New subject: Cheap pseudo temp. controlled soldering (was: Spending)
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8:41 p.m.
New subject: Cheap pseudo temp. controlled soldering (was: Spending)
Maplin have a temp. controlled soldering iron in their Xmas bargain list for
?30 - a big discount, don't ask me how I know- for all those in the market
for one. It's fully isolated by transformer with an earth connection at the
rear. Good value !
Geoff.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: Cheap pseudo temp. controlled soldering (was: Spending)
Regarding temperature controlled soldering irons: if you don't want
to, or can't, spend the money on a temperature controlled soldering
iron, a light socket and a variety of edison-base incandescent light
bulbs in various wattage ratings, to insert as needed, in series with
a soldering iron might help. :-)
This trick (or the similar one of using a tirac-based 'dimmer switch' in
series with the soldering iron) is well-known to UK modelmakers who want
to solder 'white metal' kits. I am not sure what the US name for 'white
metal' is, it's a low-melting-point lead alloy...
However, for electronic work, this is nowhere near as good as a real
temperature controlled iron. Consider the normal 15W iron sold to
hobbyists. It's designed to run at just above soldering temperatures with
the bit in free air. Now, if you put a significant 'load' on the bit (say
an IC pin soldered to a ground plane in a PCB), then the temperature of
the bit drops. The result, if you're soldering, is a dry joint. If you're
desoldering, it's a ruined IC, PCB, or both due to the amount of time you
hold the iron on the joint to melt the solder.
What you need is a higher power iron for this application, but such an
iron would normally get far too hot.
Now consider the temperature-controller, thermostatic, iron. The one I
use is something like 50W. When the tip is in free air, the element is
only swithced on for part of the time, so the mean power is probably
something like 15W. But if you put the tip on said IC pin on the ground
plane, then the element is turned on for a greater proportion of the
time. The mean power goes up as you'd want.
-tony 
6 Nov
6 Nov
6:14 p.m.
New subject: Spending was: ebay question
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Dickens" <jdickens(a)ameritech.net>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: Spending was: ebay question
i spent 10 times the price($1) that i paid for my Sun
IPX for a
Transceiver
(aui to twisted pair) to connect to my network, and
another $10 for a
serial
null-modem adapter from radioshack.. no i can't
solder cables to save my
life, maybe if i had a $50 temp controlled iron i could.. but that's more
money than the adapter :)
James
I got one of these:
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=570&item=IR…
and it works ok for my small electronic jobs (I hate soldering). I think if
you mess around with electronics enough you need to get one since you will
probably use it at least a few times a year. Tools and original manuals are
very important for the hobby.
I find that I spend more money upgrading the old computers then the actual
cost of the computer itself. Quite a few times I end up paying more for
shipping then the item itself costs. And any serious collector will have a
large set of spare parts handy including all sorts of cables, adapters,
drives, media, monitors, etc. I also go nuts on original software and
manuals for my units. So buying a cheap 8/16 bit computer means I will spend
many times that amount for addons plus lots of space to set it up and store
those addons.
Collecting tends to snowball on you if your not carefull. Thanks god I didnt
get into the larger older stuff that needs higher voltage and tons of space
to run, then again I am still young who knows where this will go.
7 Nov
7 Nov
4 p.m.
New subject: Spending was: ebay question
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6 Nov
6 Nov
4:36 a.m.
On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 09:17 AM, Joe wrote:
At 08:16 AM 11/6/03 -0500, R. D. Davis wrote:
not now that you have mentioned it in an open forum (he he :^/ )
Quothe Joe, from writings of Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at
07:25:10AM -0500:
At 10:02 PM 11/5/03 -0800, someone wrote:
Hmm. This got me thinking. I often find paper work with this stuff
showing it's original costs (in the tens of thousands of dollars!) or
it's
estimated used value (still in the $1000 range). I wonder if the IRS
would
accept that instead of the reciept showing that I paid $2 for it :-)
Joe
I rather figured this was the case, and was part
of why I recommended
getting professional advice. Any idea if storage costs go towards
showing
that you didn't make a profit? Unfortunately in my case, I don't
have
receipts that show how much I paid for all this junk, and I sure
can't
remember in most cases.
If all else fails in dire straits, surely the person in question has
enough different printers, and printing calculators, in their
collection, that can produce different types of print, from dot-matrix
to thermal and laser, as well as aged paper, to fudge a few receipts
if necessary. ;-) 
8:18 a.m.
>If all else fails in dire straits, surely the
person in question has
>enough different printers, and printing calculators, in their
>collection, that can produce different types of print, from dot-matrix
>to thermal and laser, as well as aged paper, to fudge a few receipts
>if necessary. ;-)
As long as it doesn't appear to hve been "recreated" for the audit, the
IRS will often just take your word for your cost for cash purchases at
flea markets, etc., so long as it fits their preconceptions, and that you
wrote it down at the time. But if they DON'T believe that you paid that,
...
Hmm. This got me thinking. I often find paper work
with this stuff
showing it's original costs (in the tens of thousands of dollars!) or it's
estimated used value (still in the $1000 range). I wonder if the IRS would
accept that instead of the reciept showing that I paid $2 for it :-)
If you lose the receipt, they'll take your word for what you paid, within
reasonable limits. If you lose MANY such, then you will be in violation
of IRS "rules" for "not maintaining proper records".
Something else to consider: If you donate something to a valid non-profit
(501C3?), then the amount that you can deduct is what you paid for it;
EXCEPT,... if you had had it for over a year before making the donation,
then you can deduct the "fair market value". I paid the usual $10 for a
Centronics 101 printer. A few years later, I donated it to City College
of San Francisco. (They NEEDED a printer for their TRS-80s that could
withstand heavy use and abuse) The IRS was perfectly content with my
taking a $1000 tax deduction, although, if I were to have made the
donation within the first year after I bought it, they would only have
permitted the $10.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
11:47 a.m.
--- Fred Cisin <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> wrote:
How did you figure $1000 as the "fair market value"
for a Centronics 101?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
Something else
to consider: If you donate something
to a valid non-profit
(501C3?), then the amount that you can deduct is
what you paid for it;
EXCEPT,... if you had had it for over a year before
making the donation,
then you can deduct the "fair market value". I paid
the usual $10 for a
Centronics 101 printer. A few years later, I
donated it to City College
of San Francisco. (They NEEDED a printer for their
TRS-80s that could
withstand heavy use and abuse) The IRS was
perfectly content with my
taking a $1000 tax deduction, although, if I were to
have made the
donation within the first year after I bought it,
they would only have
permitted the $10.
12:10 p.m.
>> Something else to consider: If you donate
something
> to a valid non-profit (501C3?), then the amount that you can deduct is
> what you paid for it; EXCEPT,... if you had had it for over a year
> before making the donation, then you can deduct the "fair market
> value". I paid the usual $10 for a Centronics 101 printer. A few
> years later, I donated it to City College of San Francisco. (They
> NEEDED a printer for their TRS-80s that could withstand heavy use and
> abuse) The IRS was perfectly content with my taking a $1000 tax
> deduction, although, if I were to have made the donation within the
> first year after I bought it, they would only have permitted the $10.
On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, steve wrote:
How did you figure $1000 as the "fair market
value"
for a Centronics 101?
While I would certainly never pay that kind of money, . . .
(and I had tried unsuccessfully to sell it for $100 at John Craig's
"Computer Swap America"), I got advice on how to proceed from the IRS.
At that time, (1983?) there were ads in PROCESSOR, etc. in that price
range. I clipped a few of those ads, and got signed written statements
from the manager of the lab, and the head of purchasing
for the college
(who had a title, not necessarily a clue)
8:39 a.m.
[...] the IRS [...]
[...]
5 Nov
5 Nov
10:54 a.m.
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Jay West wrote:
I have a couple questions about ebay/paypal, and
figured some folks on the
list here might know the "straight scoop".
instead, we will give you a lot of uninformed opinions
1) If some seller sets up an auction as private (yet
it still shows up on
the listings) - the deal is that no one can see who bid on it, or who is
currently the high bidder. In this set up, how can I be sure the seller
isn't bidding on his own auction to drive up the price? He's taunting me I
bet demmit! heh
I'm pretty sure that the eBay system would not accept a bid by
the seller.
Therefore, he is using a SHILL - having a friend of his make the bid.
2) Hypothetically, say I sell an item on Ebay for...
oh... $2500.00. The guy
could pay me via paypal, or he could send me a cashiers check. Does Paypal
report transactions to the IRS?
Only large ones, or "suspicious" ones.
The rule of thumb in the banking
community USED TO be that any transaction over $10,000 had to be reported
to the guvmint, as well as any "suspicious" transaction (such as a geek
handling a bunch of cash)
Or more importantly, if I sell items on ebay
all year... do I have to track all that and report to IRS? Never really
thought of it cause it probably isn't much money anyways. But I am curious
if ebay and/or paypal reports to the IRS.
You don't HAVE TO track it and report it, but if they find out about it,
and you DIDN'T report it, then they put you in with Al Capone.
... and NO, Zane, whether you made a PROFIT is irrelevant. They want ALL
income accounted for; if you didn't make a profit, then it is up to you to
ALSO account for the expenses that caused that income to not be a profit.
The good news is that very small amounts of income ("incidental") can
often be skipped. I have no idea what the current threshold is.
Yes, I will be including my income from VCF on my schedule C.
(although, if that were my ONLY "self-employment" income, then it could
probably be ignored.)
1:35 p.m.
At 01:54 PM 11/5/03 -0800, you wrote:
I think that was lowered to $1,000 about ten years ago. Drug War and all
that BS. FWIW I was traveling on a toll road a couple of years ago and had
to use a $100 bill to pay a toll. The toll takers had to make a copy of my
driver's licene and other info to report it to the IRS!!!
Joe
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Jay West wrote:
guy
I have a couple questions about ebay/paypal, and
figured some folks on the
list here might know the "straight scoop".
instead, we will give you a lot of uninformed opinions
1) If some seller sets up an auction as private
(yet it still shows up on
the listings) - the deal is that no one can see who bid on it, or who is
currently the high bidder. In this set up, how can I be sure the seller
isn't bidding on his own auction to drive up the price? He's taunting me I
bet demmit! heh
I'm pretty sure that the eBay system would not accept a bid by
the seller.
Therefore, he is using a SHILL - having a friend of his make the bid.
> 2) Hypothetically, say I sell an item on Ebay for... oh... $2500.00. The could pay me
via paypal, or he could send me a cashiers check. Does Paypal
report transactions to the IRS?
Only large ones, or "suspicious" ones.
The rule of thumb in the banking
community USED TO be that any transaction over $10,000 had to be reported
to the guvmint, 
11:07 a.m.
Jay West wrote:
I have a couple questions about ebay/paypal, and
figured some folks on the
list here might know the "straight scoop".
1) If some seller sets up an auction as private (yet it still shows up on
the listings) - the deal is that no one can see who bid on it, or who is
currently the high bidder. In this set up, how can I be sure the seller
isn't bidding on his own auction to drive up the price? He's taunting me I
bet demmit! heh
paypal really goes after buyers with a vengence. They don't seem to give a
crap what sellers do. I bid on a camera and won the auction, but the seller
gave me the finger and said "oops, too little money, i messed up not screwing
you with a reserve" and ebay did absolutely nothing, and he continued vic^h^h
selling to others, and does to this day.
To the point you bring up, I think that the fact that they don't void out all
those
"you arent bidding on the real thing, we, just will tell you where to get it
free"
auctions for disk drives, and so forth is basically totally ignoring policing of
bidders. The sellers of that crap have very high "approval" ratings, because
they have gamed their ratings thru the roof.
If you cannot examine the bidders, pre bid, you can't see if they are shills
(usually
bidders with 0 or 1 priors), or ridiculous sham bidders (with ratings make up of
hundreds of $1 crap bids). I'd only bid on a private auction if you know the
bidder, or can obtain real contact with them, and assess their integrity.
Otherwise
as you say, you'll get ripped, and Ebay will be after you, not the seller, since
you are a buyer, and you (not the seller) pays ebay profits.
2) Hypothetically, say I sell an item on Ebay for... oh... $2500.00. The guy
could pay me via paypal, or he could send me a cashiers check. Does Paypal
report transactions to the IRS? Or more importantly, if I sell items on ebay
all year... do I have to track all that and report to IRS? Never really
thought of it cause it probably isn't much money anyways. But I am curious
if ebay and/or paypal reports to the IRS.
I think the same exemption that applies to selling personal items in a casual
fashion, such as a garage sale, or penny saver sale of excess would apply.
If you sell a personal item it is the profit that governs the report, not the
gross sale amount. If you get a bargain Apple 1 at a garage sale, and sell
it for $30,000 to Steve Jobs, you get to report the 29,995 profit as income.
If you buy the $5 TI 99/4A and sell it for $50, you probably could shine
on that amount, if that is all you make. Technically, you should keep books
if you do enough business in this way, and file a schedule C on the results.
I think as an entity backed by a bank, they have to report any single
transaction to the IRS that is $10,000 or more, as do you technically. That
is all the reporting I know of.
Your own bank only reports your interest income, nothing else to the IRS,
on ordinary banking operations. I cant think of anything that paypal is doing
that is reportable compared to a bank, or to a credit card processing
operation (again, no IRS reports) that is unique or regulated.
All the above is my opinion, I have no professional standing to defend this,
but my own experience. I personally operate all sales thru my business
checkbook and account for this, so there is no question in the end what
happened.
Jim
Jay West
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
6:11 p.m.
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, jim wrote:
paypal really goes after buyers with a vengence. They
don't seem to give
a crap what sellers do. I bid on a camera and won the auction, but the
seller gave me the finger and said "oops, too little money, i messed up
not screwing you with a reserve" and ebay did absolutely nothing, and he
continued vic^h^h selling to others, and does to this day.
I've about had it with eBay. It seems like getting screwed by a seller is
no longer such a rare thing. What's more common is the complete lack of
regard that eBay gives to buyer's who complain about shitty sellers. No
matter how many complains I send, eBay seems to ignore them even more
stridently. Of course, when a seller I complained about complained about
me, I got an immediate warning. When I wrote back (after spending an
inordinate amount of time trying to navigate eBay's maze of
self-referencing web pages that all lead to nowhere to try to figure out
how to contact them) I have yet to hear back about it. eBay needs to get
bitch slapped hard by a class-action lawsuit.
And no, this is not (just) a blatant plug for the Vintage Computer
Marketplace, though I do wish more people would start switching their
vintage computer buying and selling there.
New features are going to be implemened soon including multiple currency
support. We're shooting for doubling the current user base by the end of
the year, but we need more users. That being said, we'll also be
introducing some incentive programs for people to refer others to the
site. Stay tuned...
http://marketplace.vintage.org
Your own bank only reports your interest income,
nothing else to the
IRS, on ordinary banking operations. I cant think of anything that
paypal is doing that is reportable compared to a bank, or to a credit
card processing operation (again, no IRS reports) that is unique or
regulated.
PayPal operates as a bank, and is therefore subject to the same
regulations as any "bricks & mortar" bank.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
6:41 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf(a)siconic.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: ebay question
Last time I checked there were onyl 112 listing at the marketplace, and a
few of the prices seemed kind of high to me. The whole point of EBAY is that
there are 100,000+ auctions going on and good deals are still there to be
found. Of course EBAY will do anything to please the seller because thats
what keeps their money coming in. If people quit selling items there what
would the multi billion dollar EBAY stock be worth? If a seller on EBAY
screws up the dsecription then get your money back (assuming you iused a
credit card). I wouldnt even bother with EBAY's or sellers runaround call
your credit card company and just reverse the charges (have a good story).
I dont see how a small closed group of collectors can reach critical mass to
rival EBAY for sellers attention.
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, jim wrote:
Festival
paypal really goes after buyers with a vengence.
They don't seem to give
a crap what sellers do. I bid on a camera and won the auction, but the
seller gave me the finger and said "oops, too little money, i messed up
not screwing you with a reserve" and ebay did absolutely nothing, and he
continued vic^h^h selling to others, and does to this day.
I've about had it with eBay. It seems like getting screwed by a seller is
no longer such a rare thing. What's more common is the complete lack of
regard that eBay gives to buyer's who complain about shitty sellers. No
matter how many complains I send, eBay seems to ignore them even more
stridently. Of course, when a seller I complained about complained about
me, I got an immediate warning. When I wrote back (after spending an
inordinate amount of time trying to navigate eBay's maze of
self-referencing web pages that all lead to nowhere to try to figure out
how to contact them) I have yet to hear back about it. eBay needs to get
bitch slapped hard by a class-action lawsuit.
And no, this is not (just) a blatant plug for the Vintage Computer
Marketplace, though I do wish more people would start switching their
vintage computer buying and selling there.
New features are going to be implemened soon including multiple currency
support. We're shooting for doubling the current user base by the end of
the year, but we need more users. That being said, we'll also be
introducing some incentive programs for people to refer others to the
site. Stay tuned...
http://marketplace.vintage.org
Your own bank only reports your interest income,
nothing else to the
IRS, on ordinary banking operations. I cant think of anything that
paypal is doing that is reportable compared to a bank, or to a credit
card processing operation (again, no IRS reports) that is unique or
regulated.
PayPal operates as a bank, and is therefore subject to the same
regulations as any "bricks & mortar" bank.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage
mputers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at
http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
8:53 p.m.
At 00:41 06/11/2003 -0500, Teo Zenios wrote:
Last time I checked there were onyl 112 listing at the
marketplace, and a
few of the prices seemed kind of high to me. The whole point of EBAY is that
there are 100,000+ auctions going on and good deals are still there to be
found. Of course EBAY will do anything to please the seller because thats
what keeps their money coming in. If people quit selling items there what
would the multi billion dollar EBAY stock be worth? If a seller on EBAY
screws up the dsecription then get your money back (assuming you iused a
credit card). I wouldnt even bother with EBAY's or sellers runaround call
your credit card company and just reverse the charges (have a good story).
I dont see how a small closed group of collectors can reach critical mass to
rival EBAY for sellers attention.
Back in July, eBay UK decided to whop up their prices significantly; they
said it was because we have to pay VAT on their fees now, but what angered
many people was the way they took the opportunity to bump everything up a
the same time, and issue a press release to tell people "some prices will
go up, some will go down". yeah, only one never used feature price dropped
by a few pennies.
This action caused, well, not quite a mass-exodus, but certainly a
noticeable one over to www.eBid.co.uk - another general purpose auction
site, but free to sell on basic listings. Number of members is now up to
114K, 14K of auctions listed and over 1000 with bids as I write... Nothing
to rival eBay, but enough traffic to mean we now sell everything we list,
eventually. (My wife sells miniature Russian glass animals, though we've
not got much up at the moment.)
and eBay? Did they notice? They apparently ignore it. BUT there have
been rather a lot of free listing days since the exodus... like every
couple of weeks recently. (albeit restricted "if your listing is x and y
and z") We didn't have one for ages before then...
Rob.
9:15 p.m.
On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Teo Zenios wrote:
Last time I checked there were onyl 112 listing at the
marketplace, and a
few of the prices seemed kind of high to me. The whole point of EBAY is that
Yeah, I know. But we're not in the business of editing auctions or
e-mailing each person that lists a Compaq Portable for $350 to let them
know that they are insane.
That being said, there are some incredible bargains to be had on the VCM.
I've partaken in a few myself.
there are 100,000+ auctions going on and good deals
are still there to be
found. Of course EBAY will do anything to please the seller because thats
I'm not concerned about the 100,000+ auctions but the 3,000 or so that
have to do with vintage computer items. The VCM is a far more suitable
venue for the trading of vintage computers and its ilk, and I won't stop
until we've conquered that market from eBay.
I dont see how a small closed group of collectors can
reach critical
mass to rival EBAY for sellers attention.
Hmm. Hundreds, if not thousands, of people use eBay strictly to shop for
vintage computers. The vintage computer categories on eBay have over
3,000 items listed at any time. No critical mass? Hardly.
eBay is a mess and there's no reason this hobby should be held hostage by
it any longer. Join the Vintage Computer Marketplace to take the market
back for yourself!
http://marketplace.vintage.org
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
6 Nov
6 Nov
7:07 a.m.
I've about
had it with eBay. It seems like getting screwed by
a seller is
> no longer such a rare thing. What's more common is the complete lack of
11:54 a.m.
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7:29 a.m.
Last time I checked there were onyl 112 listing at the
marketplace, and a
few of the prices seemed kind of high to me. The whole point of
EBAY is that
there are 100,000+ auctions going on and good deals are still there to be
found. Of course EBAY will do anything to please the seller because thats
what keeps their money coming in. If people quit selling items there what
would the multi billion dollar EBAY stock be worth? If a seller on EBAY
screws up the dsecription then get your money back (assuming you iused a
credit card). I wouldnt even bother with EBAY's or sellers runaround call
your credit card company and just reverse the charges (have a good story).
I dont see how a small closed group of collectors can reach
critical mass to
rival EBAY for sellers attention.
Prices will adjust themselves as the site become busier, I'm sure. There
are rediculous prices for items on eBay as well (often widely discussed
here), and this will always be true in any marketplace--there is always
someone who is greedy, uninformed, or both. On the other hand, you're not
going to find a free, working LA-36 with options on eBay, but there's one on
VCM right now. Also there have already been some very successful sellers
who have listed items for what at first appear to be high prices, but in
fact, those items were just looking for the right buyer. Yesterday, an item
that had been listed for 10 weeks was snapped up at full price. The seller
was smart and patient, and got what he wanted, and I'm assuming that because
the buyer volunteered his money willingly, both sides were happy with the
value. It's not just about auctions. You can list an item on VCM for
outright sale or trade for as long as you want to leave it there, until
someone grabs it. I think that's pretty compelling, and even in its
infancy, we're showing that it works.
The point of VCM is to create a marketplace for serious collectors and
traders and not for the garage-clearing/attic-dumping weekend warrior. I
think you'll see a more pronounced difference between "good deals" and
"bargains" than you do on eBay once things are really cooking, and a lot of
that will be reflective of the quality of both the items and the sellers.
It's also a place where you're not going to get scraped and spammed, where
your support emails will be answered by people who are also collectors and
hobbyists sharing your interests and concerns, where the features and
functions of the site are specifically tuned to your market and in response
to your feedback, and that eventually we hope, with more data collected,
will become a significant resource of value and availability data (none of
which is publicly preserved by eBay much beyond 30 days). --Patrick
10:06 a.m.
Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, jim wrote:
And no, this is not (just) a blatant plug for the Vintage Computer
Marketplace,
I plan to use this forum for my "good" stuff, but I won't bore you
with the drek, it will go to Ebay.
I'd rather find an audience focused on the product, than throw it
first out into the pond where you all, and the other possible Classic
computer users would not find it.
My friend got a "miss-listed" 129 keypunch off ebay because in the
100,000+ listings he had not described it so you guys could find it.
with a smaller group of more interesting listings (eventually) one can
scan 100% of the listings of interest, rather than 30+ pages of 100
bits of drek on ebay.
Plus, hopefully someone will not tell me to mail on bogus letterhead
to Maxtor for a "sample" 160GB drive using a made up name, and
charge me $5 to tell me that. probably 10% of the listings on ebay
currently are that crap (though not in the vintage category).
Jim
10:50 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "jim" <jwstephens(a)msm.umr.edu>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: ebay question
Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
First off ask 5 people what drek and good stuff is and you will get
different answers from each person depending what they collect and what
price range they buy in. People need to check their spelling if your going
to use a search engine to find things.
As far as just posting the good stuff on the vintage computer marketplace
all that means to me is you posting stuff that people would pay alot more
for here then on ebay and the fact that people here would know whats common
compared to the people on ebay bidding on higher priced "drek". Your just
targeting your market for low end and high end material. I assume if you had
a $10,000 apple one it would probably go to where it would fetch the most
and thats probably ebay.
If somebody did bid $5 on a 160gb maxtor drive you know its a bullshit
auction, and for the guy to get away with it he must have written something
in the fine print of the auction you didnt bother reading. People can get
taken anywhere there is a swaplist if your not carefull.
I dont understand why people hate the 100,000+ listings on ebay, it just
gives you a higher chance of finding what you want when you need it. I was
looking for a good ADB KVM for a few of my classic macs and found a Dr Bott
one on ebay in mint condition with cables for $50, this was 1/4 the going
internet price and had seen one go for 2x the money on the Lowendmac
swaplist (another place to find deals or get screwed if you dont know what
your doing).
I even had alot of luck buying from people on the forsale newsgroups. There
are alot of people around who get tired of their old collectables and just
dump them to people who still like that particular collectable. I wouldnt
limit myself to just 1 place to search.
Having said this I have looked through the marketplace a few times and found
a couple of items I would have purchased if I didnt have one already, and a
few that looked nice but were priced alot more then what they go for on
ebay. I am going to continue looking, but I dont like how a few horror
stories are making ebay sound like such a shithole when its not, especially
when people are just promoting a new avenue of selling vintage equipment.
If the Vintage Computer Marketplace takes off its because people will have
found what they wanted at the price they would pay , not because people are
thumping the fact thats its not ebay (just like linux isnt getting anywhere
when all they talk about is how microsoft sucks instead of making their
product more apealing).
TZ
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, jim wrote:
And no, this is not (just) a blatant plug for the Vintage Computer
Marketplace,
I plan to use this forum for my "good" stuff, but I won't bore you
with the drek, it will go to Ebay.
I'd rather find an audience focused on the product, than throw it
first out into the pond where you all, and the other possible Classic
computer users would not find it.
My friend got a "miss-listed" 129 keypunch off ebay because in the
100,000+ listings he had not described it so you guys could find it.
with a smaller group of more interesting listings (eventually) one can
scan 100% of the listings of interest, rather than 30+ pages of 100
bits of drek on ebay.
Plus, hopefully someone will not tell me to mail on bogus letterhead
to Maxtor for a "sample" 160GB drive using a made up name, and
charge me $5 to tell me that. probably 10% of the listings on ebay
currently are that crap (though not in the vintage category).
Jim
2:49 p.m.
On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Teo Zenios wrote:
ebay. I am going to continue looking, but I dont like
how a few horror
stories are making ebay sound like such a shithole when its not, especially
when people are just promoting a new avenue of selling vintage equipment.
When you've had enough bad experiences with eBay, whether it be with eBay
itself or various sellers, then yes, it becomes a "shithole". There are
many people who've already swore off eBay, but eBay's massive advertising
budget enables them to keep growing despite its many flaws.
If the Vintage Computer Marketplace takes off its
because people will have
found what they wanted at the price they would pay , not because people are
thumping the fact thats its not ebay (just like linux isnt getting anywhere
when all they talk about is how microsoft sucks instead of making their
product more apealing).
Computer collectors should use the VCM because it is just better than
eBay where this hobby is concerned. That will be clearly evident once
the needed critical mass is reached.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
3:16 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf(a)siconic.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: ebay question
Festival
On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Teo Zenios wrote:
> ebay. I am going to continue looking, but I dont like how a few horror
> stories are making ebay sound like such a shithole when its not,
especially
> when people are just promoting a new avenue of
selling vintage
equipment.
When you've had enough bad experiences with eBay, whether it be with eBay
itself or various sellers, then yes, it becomes a "shithole". There are
many people who've already swore off eBay, but eBay's massive advertising
budget enables them to keep growing despite its many flaws.
> If the Vintage Computer Marketplace takes off its because people will
have
> found what they wanted at the price they would
pay , not because people
are
> thumping the fact thats its not ebay (just like
linux isnt getting
anywhere
when all they
talk about is how microsoft sucks instead of making their
product more apealing).
Computer collectors should use the VCM because it is just better than
eBay where this hobby is concerned. That will be clearly evident once
the needed critical mass is reached.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
I have bid and won maybe 50+ ebay auctions in the last 2-3 years ranging
from a cheap game or batteries for my mac to whole
computers and I only had
problems with 2 people. One because he changed payment
method from what was
advertised in his auction (told him no thanks and that ended that, neither
of us sent feedback to ebay), and another last month or so when somebody
packed a tandy 1000hx + cm5 monitor poorly and the monitor was broke (after
a few emails ended up getting the vender to refund my money after he got
fedex to pay him).
I am sure I havnt made anywhere near the purchases on EBAy you must have
made, and most likely you probably had higher ticket items then me (I think
$150 was highest price for any 1 item I purchased). But still for the volume
I did I have no major complaints with ebay or the sellers I dealt with. I am
sure if I was buying high ticket items that cost $500 or more and are
tightly graded (like stamps, coins, hummels, etc) then the dishonest people
trying to scam you selling inferior goods or nothing at all might start
coming out of the woodwork, but that will happen anywhere and at any time.
TZ
5:07 p.m.
On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Teo Zenios wrote:
I have bid and won maybe 50+ ebay auctions in the last
2-3 years ranging
from a cheap game or batteries for my mac to whole computers and I only had
problems with 2 people. One because he changed payment method from what was
advertised in his auction (told him no thanks and that ended that, neither
of us sent feedback to ebay), and another last month or so when somebody
packed a tandy 1000hx + cm5 monitor poorly and the monitor was broke (after
a few emails ended up getting the vender to refund my money after he got
fedex to pay him).
For a while I rarely used eBay (which should've been obvious from all the
bad things I had to say about it). Recently I've been using it a lot,
because I figure the economy was in such a slump that good deals could
finally be had as all the nerds had lost their stock options and their
jobs and couldn't bid outrageous sums against me. For the most part it
worked, and I got some cool stuff at decent prices. However, that
increase in volume has really opened me up to more shitty deals. Worse,
when you complain to eBay, if you can find the link to complain at all (I
think they have exactly one contact link buried deep within their "help"
pages) they do nothing.
I am sure I havnt made anywhere near the purchases on
EBAy you must have
made, and most likely you probably had higher ticket items then me (I think
$150 was highest price for any 1 item I purchased). But still for the volume
I did I have no major complaints with ebay or the sellers I dealt with. I am
I haven't had many more transactions than you have since I really started
buying up stuff on eBay, and the highest amount I paid for anything was
$277 (for a new in the box Tiger Learning Computer, worth it :) And to be
fair, there have only been less than half a dozen truly bad experiences.
But that, compounded with trying in vain to get eBay to do anything about
it, and the wholly ineffective feedback system where any complaints about
sellers can be rebutted with assinine comments back from the seller
(actual feedback: "ALL LOOK OUT WHATS TO NAME HIS OWN SHIPPING PRICE A
LOOSER ALL BEWARE BAD E BAYE") even when the seller was completely in the
wrong and in total violation of eBay's "rules", makes it overall a sour
experience. So most of the reason for the Vintage Computer Marketplace
was to develop a site BY and FOR computer collectors to build a community
where that kind of crap won't be tolerated. Like Patrick stated
previously, when you e-mail the sysops, you get BOTH Patrick and I.
Either one or both of us will respond, and promptly (well, except for the
"I forgot my password...can you please reset it?" request which I just
delete now since I'm sick of pointing out that there is a way for you to
do that yourself if you would just RTFM! ;) So that's one very important
thing that eBay cannot provide. And since we're a smaller, tighter, and
more defined community, the feedback rating system we have is a lot more
relevant and effective.
sure if I was buying high ticket items that cost $500
or more and are
tightly graded (like stamps, coins, hummels, etc) then the dishonest people
trying to scam you selling inferior goods or nothing at all might start
coming out of the woodwork, but that will happen anywhere and at any time.
I guarantee that if this does somehow get carried out on the VCM, we will
know who did it and we will know how to find them and we will help to
prosecute.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
5 Nov
5 Nov
11:49 a.m.
--- Jay West <jwest(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
1) If some seller sets up an auction as private (yet
it still shows up on
the listings) - the deal is that no one can see who
bid on it, or who is
currently the high bidder. In this set up, how can I
be sure the seller
isn't bidding on his own auction to drive up the
price?
You can never be sure in a public auction either
(seller using a second user id)
2) Hypothetically, say I sell an item on Ebay for...
oh... $2500.00. The guy
could pay me via paypal, or he could send me a
cashiers check. Does Paypal
report transactions to the IRS? Or more importantly,
if I sell items on ebay
all year... do I have to track all that and report
to IRS?
Yes, but you have to track all your expenses too, the
reason the IRS is not going after all the ebay sellers
is that if the sellers actually accounted for all
their expenses the IRS would have to start writing
checks, not receiving them.
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6 Nov
6 Nov
12:12 p.m.
2) Hypothetically, say I sell an item on Ebay for...
oh... $2500.00. The guy
could pay me via paypal, or he could send me a cashiers check. Does Paypal
report transactions to the IRS? Or more importantly, if I sell items on ebay
all year... do I have to track all that and report to IRS? Never really
thought of it cause it probably isn't much money anyways. But I am curious
if ebay and/or paypal reports to the IRS.
Yes, the IRS knows about Ebay and Paypal, and can get to *all* of the
transaction information if they wanted to. I would not worry about
anything even up to $2500. The IRS is short too mant agents, although
they can use Ebay/Paypal as ammo in an audit.
An actually, if it is *your* personal property (not real estate) and you
sell, it is not taxed anyway.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
7557
days inactive
7566
days old
47 comments
23 participants
participants (23)
-
allain＠panix.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
aw288＠osfn.org -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
classiccmp.org＠irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk -
geoffreythomas＠onetel.net.uk -
gkicomputers＠yahoo.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jdickens＠ameritech.net -
jhfinexgs2＠compsys.to -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
jwstephens＠msm.umr.edu -
kenziem＠sympatico.ca -
lbickley＠bickleywest.com -
mouse＠Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA -
patrick＠evocative.com -
rdd＠rddavis.org -
rhudson＠cnonline.net -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
vcf＠siconic.com -
waltje＠pdp11.nl